Guild Wars 2

Here’s the problem: After 2 hours, right before the final boss of Arah (and thus my reward), my group decided they had a guildy who deserved the 60 tokens more than I did, and thus they kicked me from the party & dungeon. I have screenshots proving this.

Can I report them? If so, how? Ingame report function doesn’t have such an option. Send a ticket to support? And is there any way I can still get my tokens?

Thanks in advance.

You have nothing to put a ticket in for. They vote kicked you. The system needs a majority vote in order to act and thats what it got.

You wont get tokens, mainly because you didnt kill the final boss. If they did give it you, then it would be open to mass exploitation. People would drag a beginner through the dungeon, boot them out before the last boss and get a better player in. All involved would then get tokens.

Of course this is just one scenario, but i very very much doubt you will get anything as the system is working as it should.

You could of course, simply announce in general chat what occurred and for people to stay away from those plays and/or guild.

I would report for scamming, since they got your effort and then gave the rewards to someone else. You could also put in a support ticket including their character names.

Aside from that, name and shame in LA

Hi Gaile!

I had a similar experience a while ago, in which I proceeded to send in a ticket through support. When I did, I was discouraged to use the support for this and was instead suggested to use the in-game report system.

Without quoting the full reply I got, this is the part:

“Thank you for reporting a potential rules violation. We will use the information you have provided to investigate whether a violation of the rules has occurred. Next time that you’re in-game and you would like to report a violation, you can do us a favor by submitting the report in-game. This will be sent directly to us and we can take care of the issue quickly.”

Also something I noticed when I got kicked from the party back then, is that the entire party chat disappears. Making it very hard to take screenshots of the chat if we are to take screenshots of the incidident when we’re submitting a ticket regarding the case.

Blackwyn.8127:

Also something I noticed when I got kicked from the party back then, is that the entire party chat disappears. Making it very hard to take screenshots of the chat if we are to take screenshots of the incidident when we’re submitting a ticket regarding the case.

I noticed this too. Fortunately in my case the users in question admitted what they had done in local chat, and though I’m sure you people at ArenaNet can still look up what has been said in party chat, it may help future cases if the party chat doesn’t disappear.

Also thanks for the answers everyone, sent a ticket to support.

Man, if I were you I’d sling that guilds name all over the place. What a crummy thing to do to another player, though I don’t know of any way around it.

Too bad there’s not some sort of dungeon\party rating system that is account based (similar to Demon’s Souls). That way you could see folks with multiple offenses and would at least they would be held accountable.

Lemme know if you want to run it again, I’d be glad to help.

Something similar to this happened to me in WoW. We went through the entire dungeon and were fighting through very final event (Wailing Caverns – Murloc boss thing). Just as the Murloc came out of the water, three of the players (all in the same guild/server) voted and kicked me instantly. My wife was also in the group and they did not kick her, for whatever reason. The strange thing about it was that they gained no benefit by kicking me and neither my wife nor I can think of any reason I gave for them to kick me.

I cannot say I’ve ever before and since been that livid about a game and its player base.

I am proposing a possible solution to this scam exploit. What ArenaNet can do is to create a series (maybe 10) of hidden flags (markers) at random timestamp during the dungeon.

At each timestamp, all present party members would receive a check mark, like an attendance check.

At the end of the dungeon, the system can check if all party members are still in party (not necessarily online since someone can have connection problem). If one party member with more than 5 checks is missing, i.e, not in party anymore, then no token will be handed out to anyone. i.e., no one get tokens.

On top of that display a message to everyone who’s trying to vote kick “If a party member is missing, no one will get reward” before they try to vote.

If a party member left by his or her own will before the end of the dungeon, then all marks for that party member can be cleared, i.e., he / she no longer has any check mark, therefore would not affect everyone’s reward. So that one person can’t grief the entire party by quitting at the end.

Also this system can be enhanced to combat the exploit where a party of 4 might go into the dungeon and clear to the last boss then invite the last member to receive reward for free. To do this: all the system has to do is to check. If a party member with less than 7 marks is present, no one gets reward either.

I’d prefer a scaling reward per boss; for example, 5 for the first boss you assisted in killing, 15 for the second, and 40 for the third. Each reward is collected upon the boss’s death, resulting in 60 total. Additionally, if you are present for the death of the last boss, you receive the diminishing returns, as normal. This way, if 3 people kick you to bring a friend for just that last boss, their friend is only getting 5, giving them, I hope, much less incentive to kick you.

However, are diminishing returns really the best way to extend play time? I believe this violates one of ANets own statements in their mission statement.

Using a system like this, a player would have far greater incentive to complete the entire dungeon instead. At the same time, this provides some reward to those who contributed along the way and maybe couldn’t complete the dungeon due to difficulty or time constraints.

I also like the idea of random token rewards from trash. I can’t begin to recall how many times I’ve been in groups where some players (often heavy armor “tanks”) want to run through and skip large groups of trash. I, as a mesmer, often die, repeatedly. This is not fun, especially if I must return to a way point at a position earlier in the dungeon than those groups of trash. Putting random tokens on trash would, I hope, provide everyone incentive to kill trash, too.

Perhaps the best solution is to have tokens drops be random throughout the entire dungeon, across all mobs, so that the final tally is equivalent to the currently 60 from the final boss only.

To the OP – have you thought about trying to contact the guild leader of that guild and discuss the issue with them? It may be that what has happened is against their guild policy. I most certainly would not be joining any future runs with them, I would also make it known within my guild (on my guild forums, not publically) what happened so that my guildmates knew in advance what the other players did. Word will get around as to what they did and they will find it hard to find others to fill their runs when needed.

It is just a travesty that the system is so open to abuse. I would like to see a system implemented that discourages this kind of behaviour. If someone is votekicked, then surely it shouldnt be possible to invite someone else in for 5 mins work on the last boss and get full rewards?
How about the further into the dungeon you votekick someone, the larger the penalty in terms of the substitutes token rewards? – if you can put up with someone for 90% of a dungeon run, only to kick him right before the last boss, that is fishy. And if the substitute only gets 10% of the token reward then fewer people would bother with this. Diminishing returns should count that as a full run btw.

I wouldnt mind to see votekicking applied to players history as well. It should be possible for someone joining a group to see/check if how many players they have kicked in the past 36 hours. That way, you could simply opt out of the 4 man guild runs, where you’re running the risk of being abused like the OP was.

Griim.5142:

I’d prefer a scaling reward per boss; for example, 10 for killing one boss, 20 for two, and 30 for three. Each reward is collected upon the boss’s death, resulting in 60 total. This way, if 3 people kick you to bring a friend for just that last boss, their friend is only getting 10, giving them, I hope, much less incentive to kick you.

Using a system like this, if a player just wanted to kill the first boss 6 times, the amount of time/effort to do so would be equivalent to completing the entire dungeon. Or perhaps the investment would actually be more, giving the player greater incentive to complete the dungeon instead. At the same time, this provides those who contributed along the way to some reward.

I honestly don’t know why the system doesn’t award you upon dungeon completion/your exit from the dungeon in a manner like you’ve outlined instead of the current setup of dumping most of the tokens on the last boss. With the current party system and the way dungeon grouping works it’s ripe for unfortunate situations like the one described in this thread.

The second portion quoted could be a positive side effect of such a system that could help out groups having trouble getting through a dungeon / people getting in PuGs that wipe before completion still get something out of it.

1 – it’d be nice if party chat stayed. Especially if you want to remver the good times But more importantly, it can be difficult to report such greifers as described here if you cannot otherwise get/remember their names. Especially since reporting them in game works best by clicking on their names.

2 – The tokens were moved to the end to prevent people from quit/resetting the first boss on dungeons. I believe they are working on a solution more fair to those that have something happen and can not finish the dungeon.

3 – A person/guild rating system would :
A – Be open to abuse, especially if a large guild decided to target one person/other guild.
B – Violate the “No name and shame” clause of the ToS, at least in spirit.

4 – One should not drag the the guild’s name through the mud. Griefing the griefers is still griefing.

Renagade Imp – the devs and support team have spoken on this previously, and as I recall, the message was they do consider such behavior as griefing.

I’m sorry for what happened to you, I agree there should be continous rewards rather than a big “all-reward” at the end.

However, (in a general situation, hypothetically) what if, say I and some random people, try and do a dungeon. They are quite hard, especially the expl. ones. Say 1 person just isn’t good enough – preventing the entire group from killing that boss, try after try after try.. Should people be afraid to vote-kick that person and bring someone else, who actually contributes to the group?

I’ve had several occasions where there were 1 or 2 persons in the group that really had no idea whatsoever what they were doing, no matter how many times we explained what they needed to be doing – they just wouldn’t listen. After about 20 wipes the group disbanded and gave up.
Would it be wrong to kick those 2 people and replace them with others who have the ability to complete the dungeon?
As it is now, I think many are afraid to replace people, even where there’s need for it.

Sure, there are griefers, but sometimes there actually exists valid reasons why to kick someone.

A possible scenario which I forgot to mention earlier about the party chat disappearing is:

You’re doing a LFG advertisement, you get invited to a party. They don’t talk or anything, nothing suspicious. Just before the last boss, you get kicked.
Party chat disappears. Making you unable to screenshot and using it as a report.
If you weren’t paying attention to their names, then how would you report them? When you get kicked, everything clears out and if you weren’t paying attention / forgot their names then you won’t be able to report them for said case with the in-game report.

Possible solution:
When you whisper to someone, his name gets saved on your chat list. Do a similar system with the last guys you were in a party with, gets saved on that list as well with the blue color to indicate they were in a party with you.

I have had exactly this problem, quite a few times. I agree with the issue of the party chat dissapearng too, it was so annoying, but luckily one of my guildies pointed out at the time to check the map chat for his original shout for a group member. Then my guild blacklisted his guild and his user name to not party with.

To be completely honest, this is the only thing you can do. I have added anyone that my guildies have told me about, I have heard in map chat or experienced myself to my block list and I now find this doesn’t happen.

I would start a ‘name and shame’ thread on here, but I am almost 100% sure that it is against ToS of some kind. Don’t worry Gail, I wouldn’t do it unless I was 100% sure ,)

Let’s hope for some kind of ‘comeupance’ for these individuals.

I doubt there’s a good solution to the problem, but in my opinion the best thing to do is to permanently ban people who abuse the vote kick in a way like this. We don’t need people like that in Guild Wars 2.

I wasn’t sure if this was even possible. We had a guildie have it happen to him the other day.

But the other day my wife and I and another guildie ran with 2 pugs who both were different guilds or whatever, but as we neared the final boss one of the pugs just dropped from the party and it kicked ALL of us from the dungeon and reset it.

Was this just a bug and that should never happen or is it a game flaw? Someone leaving should not kick the rest of the party and reset the zone.

@Blackwyn (I’d quote, but these forums are as buggy as the game and the option is not there)

This is a very legitimate counter point. Unfortunately, it is impossible to design a system which discerns the varying purpose in a player’s decision to kick someone else. Therefore, it is necessary to create a system which is as fair as possible in all cases, this includes handling for exploiting.

I believe my recommended solution(s) above are a very reasonable way to handle these issues and stays true to what, I believe, is ANets vision for GW2’s community. It would encourage you to do what you can to help those other players. Granted, there are some who are beyond help and you do what you can. At the same time, however, there are not many encounters I can think of in an explorable mode which I have not been able to do with 3-4 people.

Tokens should accrue based on how many Mini Bosses you were present for, but not awarded until final boss is killed. 3 mini bosses? Then each mini should be worth 20. This would discourage kicking players just to get a guildie in for the final boss, because the new player would receive zero reward.

And should somebody still be kicked in the same manner, after the final boss is killed, they should still get some kind of compensation. After all, how many times have you had a random event reward you that you had no idea you had participated in? Usually because you didn’t notice that you tagged an event creature while running across a zone.

DenverRalphy.4185:

…but not awarded until final boss is killed. …

The problem with this approach, which is how it already works, is the number of reasons a player may get 0 tokens: the group is incapable of killing the final boss, the group has been in the dungeon for 3+ hours already and the player needs to log for some reason, the player is disconnected from the game (very likely lately), the other group members abuse the kick vote system, etc.

Wouldn’t you feel completely discouraged having received 0 reward, token or otherwise, for the amount of effort you invested just because you weren’t there at the moment the final boss was defeated? Time is a very valuable thing to people and they want to feel as though it was well spent.

Griim.5142

Wouldn’t you feel completely discouraged having received 0 reward, token or otherwise, for the amount of effort you invested just because you weren’t there at the moment the final boss was defeated? Time is a very valuable thing to people and they want to feel as though it was well spent.

Hence the reason I also stated...

And should somebody still be kicked in the same manner, after the final boss is killed, they should still get some kind of compensation. After all, how many times have you had a random event reward you that you had no idea you had participated in? Usually because you didn’t notice that you tagged an event creature while running across a zone.

DenverRalphy.4185:

Griim.5142

Wouldn’t you feel completely discouraged having received 0 reward, token or otherwise, for the amount of effort you invested just because you weren’t there at the moment the final boss was defeated? Time is a very valuable thing to people and they want to feel as though it was well spent.

Hence the reason I also stated…

And should somebody still be kicked in the same manner, after the final boss is killed, they should still get some kind of compensation. …

My mistake! Same goal, just different approaches. May the one which is easiest to implement win!

Jayshua – what happened there is a game design flaw. Dungeons are currentl keyed to the person who started them, and if they quit the whole thing disbands. They are working on changing that, IIRC.