Guild Wars 2

Hello all !!

I am a gw2 player since beta and i pretty much enjoy the game still!
Over here I am mostly a reader than a writer… but…. !
Until March 2013 i was playing gw2 on
MSI N250GTS TWIN FROZR 1G OC
http://www.msi.com/product/vga/N250GTS-Twin-Frozr-1G-OC.html

and it was running smooth, if you take in consideration the fact that this card was a little bit old. Until i managed to pour some water on it and … !You get the point… !

After that accident, i bought this one
ASUS HD7870-DC2-2GD5-V2
http://www.asus.com/Graphics_Cards/HD7870DC22GD5V2/

For the price i paid (250 euro…) i didn’t really see a lot of improvement ingame… !! Ok i was playing a little bit better, some fps boost but i was expecting more ! I didn’t go into performance checks or something by that time… ! After 3 months i found out i couldn’t use my new graphics card in Blender (a software i am using for work…) cause it doesn’t support AMD cards, only Nvidia! So i decided to sell that one to a friend, put some more money and buy a new Nvidia card so that i could do my work and run GW2 at maximum performance.

Bought this beauty …
ASUS GeForce GTX 770 DirectCU II
http://www.asus.com/Graphics_Cards/GTX770DC2OC2GD5/

So, my problem now is that for about 420 euro investment, my card is being used by guild wars at 35% ( i saw 45 % usage at some point…)! I get max 40 fps when alone in starting areas! I have stuttering usually when i turn the camera around !! And generally gw2 isn’t performing the way i was expecting!! Since then i’ve done my google-internet researching and found out that it’s not a bottleneck, a lot of you would say, it’s not drivers, got the latest, it’s not any of the common problems !! My comp can run other games maxed out settings without having the slightest lag !!!

I’ve seen people saying GW2 is badly optimized and thus can’t benefit from such cards as those mentioned i bought last 5 months !! Yeah i think so after some excesive testing i did !! My cpu is being used at 50 – 60 % on all cores and at the same time my vga card at 40% max … !!

So this is a shout for Arenanet and a warning for fellow players!! GW2 soon gets 1 year old, such things are impossible not to get fixed! There are a lot of people complaining about low performance in guild wars! Other mmorpgs that came the same time or some months before gw2, have been optimized with AMD and NVIDIA ! GW2 hasn’t been optimized yet …!

I wanna be able to use my system at full when it comes to playing GW2!! That’s why i paid 400 euro on such a card, that’s why i bought the game.

Sorry about the wall of text, but i think what i am saying is really important for a new game and it’s future !

My Comp setup:

PSU: COOLERMASTER RS-620 REALPOWER M620 620W
CPU: AMD PHENOM II X6 1100T 3.3GHZ SIX-CORE BLACK EDITION
RAM: 12 GB KINGSTON KHX1600C9D3K2
MB: ASUS M4A89GTD PRO/USB3
VGA: ASUS GeForce GTX 770 DirectCU II
SSD: Kingston 240GB SSD HyperX 3K 2.5 SATA III (GW2 resides on this …)

Hey.
Your problem might not be in the GFX card.
It might actually be your CPU. Your CPU isn’t exactly new either, and that (from what I’ve heard) is directly FPS related.

I’ve been searching for more than a week. It’s not my comp setup, my cpu, gfx or whatsoever…!

People with much newer cpus and similar gfx cards have the same problem with me. Complaining about it too. Look at those topics over here that they recently changed something that dropped fps to people were having 60 and more fps.

My best guess at this point, is that the problem is software related !! I am playing Crysis 3 full maxed out without a kitten glitch !! CPU usage 80% – 90% and GPU usage 95%- 98% !!

Playing GW2 CPU usage 50% – 60% and GPU usage 35% – 45% !!
That isn’t normal ………

It’s like GW2 engine can’t utilize the availiable hardware correct !! It’s easy to make assumptions about the hardware but that’s not the case here … !!

ah yes.
I see your point, and yes I have noticed the stream of posts.
I have to agree.
My guess is that their new culling system, which they implemented this patch, is what is messing it up.
But that’s just my guess

Your cpu at 50-60% usage may be a bit misleading as it measuring across all cores and since gw2 isnt using all of them it shows like half your cpu isnt doing anything when infact the 1 core gw2 uses is probably at around 100%.

Its your cpu in this case that is holding your performance back. Cheapest “solution” to get a bit better fps is to overclock your cpu. That is if you have decent cooling and know what your doing..

Best solution is get a late model intel cpu like 4670k or 3570k and overclock it to 4.5 ghz +

This game is just a cpu hog and is very poorly optimized.

Probably not the awnser you want 2 hear but gl

You’re limited by your cpu,honestly next time do some research about a games engine before spending hundreds of dollars on graphics card while your CPU is the issue.

@Sossa
It’s not that i don’t wanna hear that answer… i wanna hear what everyone has to say and in fact i wanna hear from someone at anet too.
As i already mentioned … “My cpu is being used at 50 – 60 % on all cores” ! I meant that i was monitoring every single core and some were used at 60% some at 50% or others inbetween… ! I overclocked my CPU to 4 Ghz (i have a Noctua NH-D14…) cause i already said i’ve done my research before posting over here and i did find people mentioning CPU bottlenecks and sollutions… ! Nothing the only thing i gained doing that was some more heat on the CPU but not much to cause trouble … ! FPS stayed the same .. CPU usage the same !!

And btw how do you explain tha Crysis usage – performance? How do you explain that guild wars 2 was running better (not on max out specs ..) with my older nvidia … ?

There is a video on youtube with a guy having the same problem with me and he is running GW2 on a much newer cpu than me…(if i find it i’ll link it here …)!

@Caedmon: As i said …… i’ve done researchs! Don’t make me repeat things i already mentioned people … ! If you wanna say something let it be more creative than just a straight …"it’s your CPU ..Duuuh !!

xristosmk.5608:

@Sossa
It’s not that i don’t wanna hear that answer… i wanna hear what everyone has to say and in fact i wanna hear from someone at anet too.
As i already mentioned … “My cpu is being used at 50 – 60 % on all cores” ! I meant that i was monitoring every single core and some were used at 60% some at 50% or others inbetween… ! I overclocked my CPU to 4 Ghz (i have a Noctua NH-D14…) cause i already said i’ve done my research before posting over here and i did find people mentioning CPU bottlenecks and sollutions… ! Nothing the only thing i gained doing that was some more heat on the CPU but not much to cause trouble … ! FPS stayed the same .. CPU usage the same !!

And btw how do you explain tha Crysis usage – performance? How do you explain that guild wars 2 was running better (not on max out specs ..) with my older nvidia … ?

There is a video on youtube with a guy having the same problem with me and he is running GW2 on a much newer cpu than me…(if i find it i’ll link it here …)!

@Caedmon: As i said …… i’ve done researchs! Don’t make me repeat things i already mentioned people … ! If you wanna say something let it be more creative than just a straight …"it’s your CPU ..Duuuh !!

Hello!

I have a static FPS of 35 as of the last “bug” fixing patch that came out on wvw reset day, dropping it effectively from 100+. You might be suffering from that issue. I’m currently at work but will continue troubleshooting with Anet support after I get home.

However I wouldn’t like to tell you this, but Guild Wars 2 really is more about single thread performance, rather than the overall performance of the CPU. This is something that AMD CPUs really suffer badly from due to their architechture being different than Intels.

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

Everything with over 2000 point should be sufficient to run the game over 60fps except in ZvZ fights.

Remember to take reflections and shadows completely away and try it out that way, that helps ALOT.

R,
Not-Looking

@Heienkatso
Already know that about AMD and INTEL cpus ! Unfortunately for my work i need as much cores as i can (video rendering and stuff like that …) So i can’t switch to intel !

Since i bought that GFX card, i obviously can buy a better CPU but i think that’s not the case, cause i’ve seen better performance with my older GFX card… ! Why spend some more money ? And if i get a new cpu and then i have the same drawback ?

I keep reminding you ppl things i said ….
I’ve played GW2 from beta testing as i said ! I never had problems and the only things has changed since then is the gfx card and the SSD i bought ! I am a WvW maniac .. so i was playing with lower fps in general! But GW2 never glitched like it does… !

And last thing… ! No, i won’t change my cpu cause it’s the easy way to say where is the problem! I never had a problem since now !! Yeah maybe intel is better for gaming but i can run other games FULL MAXED settings as i already pointed without one single frame miss !!

xristosmk.5608:

@Heienkatso
Already know that about AMD and INTEL cpus ! Unfortunately for my work i need as much cores as i can (video rendering and stuff like that …) So i can’t switch to intel !

Since i bought that GFX card, i obviously can buy a better CPU but i think that’s not the case, cause i’ve seen better performance with my older GFX card… ! Why spend some more money ? And if i get a new cpu and then i have the same drawback ?

I keep reminding you ppl things i said ….
I’ve played GW2 from beta testing as i said ! I never had problems and the only things has changed since then is the gfx card and the SSD i bought ! I am a WvW maniac .. so i was playing with lower fps in general! But GW2 never glitched like it does… !

And last thing… ! No, i won’t change my cpu cause it’s the easy way to say where is the problem! I never had a problem since now !! Yeah maybe intel is better for gaming but i can run other games FULL MAXED settings as i already pointed without one single frame miss !!

Hi!

Sorry if I offended you in some way, didn’t mean that and I apologize!

I understand your issue and these are my tips for you:

1. Don’t know if you tried it already, but shadows and reflections really take alot of CPU performance away, can you try without them and let me know how it works?

2. If your performance has been alot better and now after a long break is alot worse, I can’t really say for sure what could cause that. GW2 gets updated all the time, 6th of August came a new patch that added some graphic options to the game and its looks are “evolving” I guess.. However I would suggest you to open a support ticket for Guild Wars 2 support. They can “confirm” this.

3. Overclock the CPU and make sure that all cores are unparked, this helped my friend with FX8350.

Anyway, I really hope you get some kind of resolution to this issue, I know its a bummer to play this game with low FPS! Sorry I’m out of any other ideas, but I’m sure GW2 support can assist you more!

All the best,
Not-Looking

Because all cards use DirectX 11, not DirectX 9 which GW2 is based on.

Anet said they would bring in DX11 after release, but so far we have hear nothing at all! This is why the game barely used most GPUs as the DX9 is TOO old, yes it allows people with 10 year old PCs to play the game, but at the expense of lower performance from most gamers’ PC who will have PC under 5 years old.

When Blizzard brought DX11 to WoW, players with up to date GPUs said they didnt see that much increase in detail, but the FPS increased by up to 25%!!!

This is why Anet should implement DX11 immediately, forget fortnightly content, spend all the time on DX11 so that real gamers can play the game as it should be, a lot of players left the game due to lag, culling, skill lag, and low FPS. If the game was based on DX11 as well, this may not have happened.

So it doesnt matter if you have the best GPU on the market right now, DX9 relies more on your CPU than GPU, so if you want better performance right now invest in a new CPU not GPU! If not then we have to wait, and hope, Anet bring in DX11 support.

@Heienkatso

No i am not offended, it’s just the common sense of people, that it’s our fault, not Anet’s that i dislike! :p

Omaris Mortuus Est.2738:

Because all cards use DirectX 11, not DirectX 9 which GW2 is based on.

Anet said they would bring in DX11 after release, but so far we have hear nothing at all! This is why the game barely used most GPUs as the DX9 is TOO old, yes it allows people with 10 year old PCs to play the game, but at the expense of lower performance from most gamers’ PC who will have PC under 5 years old.

When Blizzard brought DX11 to WoW, players with up to date GPUs said they didnt see that much increase in detail, but the FPS increased by up to 25%!!!

This is why Anet should implement DX11 immediately, forget fortnightly content, spend all the time on DX11 so that real gamers can play the game as it should be, a lot of players left the game due to lag, culling, skill lag, and low FPS. If the game was based on DX11 as well, this may not have happened.

Ok that’s the best explanation of the problem so far ! It is software related !

Omaris Mortuus Est.2738:

So it doesnt matter if you have the best GPU on the market right now, DX9 relies more on your CPU than GPU, so if you want better performance right now invest in a new CPU not GPU! If not then we have to wait, and hope, Anet bring in DX11 support.

Of course not!! I have to be crazy to spend money on a new CPU just cause Anet doesn’t want to switch to DX11! I said it before, my comp setup can play Crysis 3, a game that launched 2nd of 2013, with maxed settings, everything ultra and high without the slightest glitch!!! And that game uses my CPU and GPU at 80%- 98% !! Why should i consider getting a better CPU if my current has that potential? Just to gain 10 or 15 FPS on GW2 ?

That’s not the point ! They should fix it so the game takes advantage of the full hardware capacity a comp has to offer !! There are numerous complaints about the same issue that i found just by searching after i upgraded … ! And it does not make any sense to me, having an old hardware setup => smooth playing experience
somewhat new setup => lowest performance than before => upgrade more just to be able to play!!

My current setup after my tests,searches and benchmarking i’ve done for a week should be eating GW2 for breakfast at low density areas …! Not glitching and playing with lame 25 – 35 fps max !!

I’ll open a ticket, and do some more tests or what Heienkatso said to see if there’s any difference! I’ll keep posting results here … as soon as i can!

There is not the slightest of chances that you can max Crysis 3 on a Phenom II and still get anything approaching playable framerates.

Also, if you really need moar coars, an i7 would be a good choice.

Fermi.2409:

There is not the slightest of chances that you can max Crysis 3 on a Phenom II and still get anything approaching playable framerates.

Also, if you really need moar coars, an i7 would be a good choice.

Lol…
So you think i am lying .. !! Well i do! I can prove it if you want me to! But that’s not the point here or the forum for it … right ?
And no i don’t need i7 thanks !

They didn’t say they would do Dx11 post launch, only evaluate it. And Dx11 doesn’t make things magically faster.

“1. Don’t know if you tried it already, but shadows and reflections really take alot of CPU performance away, can you try without them and let me know how it works?”

Just 10 frames increase. From 30,35 i reach an average 40-45 fps . Still low …

“3. Overclock the CPU and make sure that all cores are unparked, this helped my friend with FX8350.”

Unparked cores. Not much improvement to mention ! I had to go after so when i get back, I’ll try overlocking at 4Ghz now with unparked cores and no shadows – reflections and test the outcome !! I’ll report back …

Behellagh.1468:

They didn’t say they would do Dx11 post launch, only evaluate it. And Dx11 doesn’t make things magically faster.

The point is high end PCs are having trouble with GW2, simply because of DX9; whilst low end PCs are fine, why should gamers who spent money on better hardware have to feel like they got the short straw by have reduced performance on a superior machine?

DX11 is much better optimised than DX9, if Anet do bring in DX11 support, things will magically get faster as the GPU will be used as it should, freeing up the CPU to do other things.

Just look around on this forum and other gaming forums, everyone criticizes Anet for not releasing the game with DX11 support, and even more so when people suffered the huge cullings in WvW and large PvE events.

DX11 is essential for any game today, they shouldnt be “evaluating” it, they should have implemented it for launch.

The game started development 2 years before Dx11. Dx10 was out but gamers were staying away from Vista. While Dx11 has a lot going for it, to add it post initial design is nearly impossible if you want to take full advantage of it. They would have to essentially recode the entire renderer to get the performance you think they should be having with Dx11. It is not a trivial task.

Dx11 is as essential to any game as a flightstick.

As for other forums, it’s group think by gamers who have all convinced each other that Dx11 is some panacea to graphics performance and it’s not. It’s a marketing checklist item like a 64-bit client or multicore support. Most have no clue what it does, just that it has to have it to qualify as “good”.

So what do you suggest Behellagh? I like this game … i was waiting for it since they announced it back then at 2007! I had a GFX card that was very good and capable to play GW2 without any issues at normal “FPS” behavior !! Bad luck, i poured some water and it died !! So i should go find and purchase some GFX card from 2010 since this game can’t evolve with hardware and software changes?

All those opinions seem a little absurd to me! We try to apologize for Anet’s sake? I am the customer here ! I buy a game, i buy hardware and i need to have some quality services! Especially for Anet, i am a potential customer at all times since i can buy whenever i want gems with real currency !!

On the other hand, lots of people will stop playing if hardware changes keep pushing onto gaming evolution and GW2 stays at current standards… ! Which by the way are old anyways !

I don’t care if DX11 is good, better or not … ! If it’s good for me and DX11 means better optimization and better GPU usage…. then yeah !! I am up for it like crazy !! I wanna use my GTX 770 at maximum in GW2! Maybe i won’t get much more fps, but i wanna see at least 90% of my GPU used by that game so my money worth it !!

I too am having a torrid time with the poor level of fps… I may not be a computer wiz but i believe this issue is software related rather than hardware. I too can enjoy crysis 3 @max settings with my setup and know for a fact that it is a cpu hog. On the other hand, i am unable to play this game without frame tearing even at lowest possible settings… My PC setup follows:
1.NZXT Technologies Phantom 630 Case CA-PH630-G1 Gun Metal
2.Thermalright Silver Arrow SB-E Extreme Dual Fan Universal CPU Heatsink
3.XFX PRO1050W Black Edition Full Modular 80PLUS Gold PSU Compatible with Intel Core i3, i5, i7 and AMD Phenom, FX ATX 1050 Energy Star Certified Power
4.2 of Sapphire Radeon HD 7970 OC with Boost 3GB DDR5 DL-DVI-I/SL-DVI-D/HDMI/DP PCI-Express Graphics Card 11197-03-40G
5.Intel Core i7-3930K Hexa-Core Processor 3.2 Ghz 12 MB Cache LGA 2011 – BX80619I73930K
6.AS Rock LGA2011 Intel X79 DDR3 CrossFirex SLI SATA3 USB3.0 A GbE ATX Motherboard X79 EXTREME6
7.Corsair Vengeance Blue 16GB (4×4GB) DDR3 1600 MHz (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory (CML16GX3M4A1600C9B)
8. Windows 8 64 bit
9. Samsung SSD 500g

I cant pass the 30 fps threshold even at lowest possible graphic settings… i really am fustrated like hell since i paid over $ 3.5k on this silly setup…

I just wanna chime in and say that I built a pc specifically for GW2 during beta. I had no issues running the game until about 2 months ago when everything started playing out really choppy with horrible fps.

Also I’m not going to bother posting my pc specs since it’s not the issue here. I do use an nvidia gfx card though.

Oh my … Likeaboss !! Nice rig …! At last some people with newer – better pc specs than me that have the same problem !! It’s hilarious the least, to invest some money to upgrade or buy a better comp and get so low on fps !! Should we start searching for used computer parts ??? Maybe some Pentium processor ?? I really wanna get a serious answer about this from someone at Anet !! It seems that guild wars 2 can be played with hardware that came out at some point, and anything older want be enough for it, anything newer won’t be used at full by the game ….

Submitted a ticket for support. Pasting it here for everyone to see.

I recently bought this card,
ASUS GeForce GTX 770 DirectCU II
http://www.asus.com/Graphics_Cards/GTX770DC2OC2GD5/

My problem is that for about 420 euro investment, my card is being used by guild wars at 35% ( i saw 45 % usage at some point…)! I get max 40 fps when alone in starting areas! I have stuttering usually when i turn the camera around !! And generally gw2 isn’t performing the way i was expecting!! My CPU is being used at 50% – 60% on all cores! Since then I’ve done my Google-internet researching and found out that it’s not a bottleneck, it’s not drivers, got the latest, it’s not any of the common problems !! My comp can run other newer games maxed out settings without having the slightest lag !!! (for example playing Crysis 3, that came out February of 2013 with video options on highest possible and it runs without any problem at all !!)

I have made this forum topic https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/tech/Nvidia-AMD-graphics-card-low-performance/ before sending a support ticket and there seems to be more ppl like me!

I did some more tests another guy recommended. I unparked my cpu cores. Not much of a difference! I removed shadows and reflections from ingame and i gained 10 more fps than my previous fps count which was 20 – 30 ! Tried to O.C. my CPU to see if that matters, and Guild wars 2 kept crashing to desktop! I didn’t have a problem with windows or something else crashing when i had overclocked my cpu !! Tested with latest nvidia beta drivers, the same low performance – fps !!!

I really thing that guild wars 2 can’t benefit from my hardware! The game itself doesn’t use 70% of my GFX card and around 30 – 40% of my CPU … !!

I’ll keep you updated if i got an answer or something !

xristosmk.5608:

So what do you suggest Behellagh? I like this game … i was waiting for it since they announced it back then at 2007! I had a GFX card that was very good and capable to play GW2 without any issues at normal “FPS” behavior !! Bad luck, i poured some water and it died !! So i should go find and purchase some GFX card from 2010 since this game can’t evolve with hardware and software changes?

The game isn’t driving your high end video cards at 100% because the CPU side of things isn’t feeding your cards with enough commands and data to cause them to run at 100%. Which means it’s a problem with the renderer portion of the code itself.

It’s nothing you can do. ArenaNet home brewed their own graphics engine. They may use Umbra to help with occlusion culling of large fixed meshes however if they didn’t use Umbra they would have to write one themselves and it’s not a trivial task. Also frame rates drop in cases when there are lots of players and NPCs around, more so in combat. That’s likely not Umbra’s fault.

Many games license an already existing game engine and the company that makes and sells that engine is responsible to make it go fast, support physics, multithreaded support, different Dx support, etc. What we have is ArenaNet’s 2nd attempt at a game engine, supposedly starting with/built on top of, the original GW engine. Again don’t forget they started work in 2007.

It’s also not Internet bandwidth because I don’t see my download bandwidth go above 20,000 bytes per second in large combats, most of the time in game it’s around 5,000 bytes per second or less.

As for 30-40% of CPU usage. Those numbers are the aggregate across all cores. 25% usage on a quad core means only 1 core’s worth of total work running. 25% on an eight core means 2 cores, etc. Personally I have not seen this game use more than 3 cores’ worth of work. Also most gamers don’t understand that in a multithreaded application that no single thread can run faster than one core worth of performance. Doesn’t matter how many cores you have. If the renderer is primarily single threaded and is tightly coupled with the graphics driver thread then those two threads combined can’t exceed a single core’s performance. And looking at threads running within GW2 this appears to be the case.

That’s why those of us who chime in on “what should I get” threads stress single core performance and a true quad core over over total CPU performance and more than four real cores. We’ve also pointed out you don’t need a fast GPU for this game at the moment. Now if GW2 isn’t your only game of course buy something more powerful but for you will not see performance where you think you need it. You’ll see it while standing alone on a hill top looking over the wilderness but you won’t see in the middle of a castle raid in WvW.

I’m sorry. Are you saying you can never achieve 99% gpu utilization with your AMD cpu and new 770gtx in GW2 ?
For now, ignore your CPU ’s and install something like MSI afterburner and add the onscreen displays for GPU utilization FPS, and perhaps Temperature. Then head into game and see how often (if it does) dip below 99 gpu utilization

Ohh .. come on !! Why should i care if Anet made a good game engine or not? I care about being a customer and being happy for the money and time i invest in things!

I see lots of people complaining about having major FPS drop last days !! I’ve read some other guys having a great (newer or better) comp or cpu and still can’t play above 30 fps !!

You are telling me to go spend some more money and buy a better cpu, just to test if it works… ! Why ? I say it should be working right now they way it is ! It worked when i had the same setup with my older nvidia GFX card … ! From beta era till march 2013! Nothing else changed from my side! Just that i renewed my gfx card and that i had to do it cause i destroyed my old one by accident! I was playing GW2 without problems for 1 year !

Do you get that point? It’s plain simple! Not all the things you say to explain me why i should buy a better cpu ! Besides that, i am not a child who cries to his parents to get the new GFX card or the new games to play ! So with some common sense and a little above 30 y old experience, i know what i should be able to get by my comp setup in gw2 performance !

It’s pretty obvious that something is wrong about gw2 at this point…

Maze.3825:

I’m sorry. Are you saying you can never achieve 99% gpu utilization with your AMD cpu and new 770gtx in GW2 ?
For now, ignore your CPU ’s and install something like MSI afterburner and add the onscreen displays for GPU utilization FPS, and perhaps Temperature. Then head into game and see how often (if it does) dip below 99 gpu utilization

I already have that kind of software from Asus. That’s where i am getting my measurements and then i came here to post …! I am working at the moment! When i get back at home, i’ll post a screenshot for you to see that GPU usage never goes above 45% ! At least that was the maximum i saw at some point !

I’m not telling you to spend more money, just why your system isn’t performing as well as you think it should with the hardware you have. Sorry if you don’t like the reasons.

As for the recent performance drop some have seen, they did add Effect LOD. It’s possible that this feature while making worse case better may make average case worse.

Behellagh.1468:

I’m not telling you to spend more money, just why your system isn’t performing as well as you think it should with the hardware you have. Sorry if you don’t like the reasons.

As for the recent performance drop some have seen, they did add Effect LOD. It’s possible that this feature while making worse case better may make average case worse.

And you are so sure about the reasons! I said something that you might haven’t noticed…!
The only thing that changed last few months is only my gfx card that i upgraded from my old gts250 ! Explain me why i had better performance back then and worst now! Old cpu is your answer ?

Cause if you answer that, then i am staying at my opinion claiming that i should then better search and buy some used (old …) parts and build a rig 2 years old just for guild wars 2 ! It won’t cost me alot … and i still could have my current comp for Crysis 3 and similar games that launched this year! :p

Anyways, just playing with words here since i created a ticket and wait for some official answer! If they say to me, that’s the way Guild wars 2 works, then fine … ! I might start thinking putting money onto playing something else …!

There are instances where my GPU does get to 99%, but I use supersampling with no reflections. Umbra renders the reflections of the underwater base that covers the entire GW2 world surface. Test it for yourself. Go to an area that has 0 water and play with the reflections. If Anet turned the underground water to a solid non reflective surface or Umbra worked as advertised we could all see a 10fps baseline performance increase.
GW2 is a CPU pig no doubt and the dream machine for the game would be a tri core CPU running at 5.5-6 ghz. Anet has built an engine that is fixed upon that standard. With CPU trends being multi core and not more raw clocks the game will remain in a poor state of performance no matter what hardware comes in the future. That 12 core , 20 or 100 core processor will not gain performance in GW2.
Until the game engine itself is recoded to use multi core systems more efficiently the game is basically at the best it will ever be.
I went from a AMD 6950 unlocked to a GTX 680 oc and the performance increase in GW2 was not very noticeable.
It is sad to say but this game will never have 60fps WvW Zergs until the engine itself is recoded.

Umbra doesn’t render anything, it simply reports which objects should be passed further along in the rendering process because there’s a chance it’s visible, meaning it couldn’t be 100% excluded, from your current camera location. Any reflection code falls squarely in ArenaNet’s renderer. Water may be a 2nd or more pass after the original render pass. I’m sure reflection probably is it’s own pass.

Your CPU is definitely a bottleneck. Even the high end AMD cpus are pretty bad for games that don’t make use of multi-threading (99% of them) compared to Intels.

To get the most from a 770 you need to be matching it with a mid range i5 at least, plus overclocking. Which also means a new motherboard.

I don’t think the OP is really asking what he could do to make it better. His first post had more to do with how video cards that have radically different performance in other games resulted in little performance gain here. And it boggled his mind that the game is so CPU bound, without realizing that was what he was saying. After all a GTX 770 should be lightyears ahead of a GTS 250.

His 2nd post that since others have noticed this to, and who hasn’t, then something needs to be done because other games perform so well with his hardware. Well those games use different game engines and aren’t putting 100s of players within the same zone.

His remaining posts circle back round to being upset that the game’s performance is sub par for the hardware he purchased. I don’t disagree but it’s the result of the game engine. Unless it’s rebuilt from the ground up, which isn’t an easy or quick job.

We the technorati here know that when a game is GPU bound, as a lot are, then differences in raw CPU performance are basically moot and higher performing video card means better frame rate. It’s just in this game that isn’t true in areas of the game where frame rate suffers. WvW and Boss events, and now the QP.

And I wouldn’t call his processor old. It can still perform as well as most of the current FX line from AMD.

Behellagh.1468:

Umbra doesn’t render anything, it simply reports which objects should be passed further along in the rendering process because there’s a chance it’s visible, meaning it couldn’t be 100% excluded, from your current camera location. Any reflection code falls squarely in ArenaNet’s renderer. Water may be a 2nd or more pass after the original render pass. I’m sure reflection probably is it’s own pass.

Umbra does occlusion which doesn’t seem to work for the rendered water underneath the world map. Ever fall through the map and notice the massive ocean that is below us? Play with the reflections in an area that has 0 water, you will notice performance hits because of that ocean. It is apparent that the Umbra occlusion is not really working as intended or is not implemented correctly in the game.

Nasher.6874:

Your CPU is definitely a bottleneck. Even the high end AMD cpus are pretty bad for games that don’t make use of multi-threading (99% of them) compared to Intels.

To get the most from a 770 you need to be matching it with a mid range i5 at least, plus overclocking. Which also means a new motherboard.

Once more ! Since my cpu worked before, i won’t change it !
End of discussion about changing…

Maybe for gaming Intel is better, but since i am working on this comp too and i need as many cores as i can get at lower costs, AMD is the only way… !
End of discussion about moving to Intel…

Behellagh.1468:

I don’t think the OP is really asking what he could do to make it better. His first post had more to do with how video cards that have radically different performance in other games resulted in little performance gain here. And it boggled his mind that the game is so CPU bound, without realizing that was what he was saying. After all a GTX 770 should be lightyears ahead of a GTS 250.

I already knew GW2 was mostly about CPU, that’s why i could play the game so far ! I didn’t make the topic to ask myself something i already knew. I just wanted some opinions from similar cases that might have been solved or something i am missing without, changing CPU or telling me how things work over and over again. I keep repeating to everyone things i said to the first 2 – 3 people … !

Behellagh.1468:

His 2nd post that since others have noticed this to, and who hasn’t, then something needs to be done because other games perform so well with his hardware. Well those games use different game engines and aren’t putting 100s of players within the same zone.

I said already that i had bad performance standing alone in starting areas too … ! And guess what… ? Ofc there are differences between games but sometimes you have to consider the whole “surrounding environment” if you want something good with your product! So i didn’t literally mean that something needs to be done but mostly i meant that this game will be left behind if it keeps ignoring progression in hardware and software! And to my opinion that really sucks for a game 1 year old that i mostly like !! In other words, i was expressing my disappointment!

Behellagh.1468:

His remaining posts circle back round to being upset that the game’s performance is sub par for the hardware he purchased. I don’t disagree but it’s the result of the game engine. Unless it’s rebuilt from the ground up, which isn’t an easy or quick job.

We are having a discussion over here! No one is upset! You are making assumptions from just plain text! I already made a ticket and waiting for some official response! We just keep discussing on the subject and who knows…maybe something good can come out of this !

Behellagh.1468:

We the technorati here know that when a game is GPU bound, as a lot are, then differences in raw CPU performance are basically moot and higher performing video card means better frame rate. It’s just in this game that isn’t true in areas of the game where frame rate suffers. WvW and Boss events, and now the QP.

Well, i said earlier…! I am not either so young and mindless or too old without knowledge around the subject! I was just seeking for some extra solutions that i probably missed… ! And we should leave wvw, boss events and QP out of discussion, since i never tested at those places cause i wanted pure measurements !!

Behellagh.1468:

And I wouldn’t call his processor old. It can still perform as well as most of the current FX line from AMD.

Ofc it’s not old !! What can you do though with Intel fan boys !! :p

Just for fun … http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaNwsa5-97k

OP:
I upgraded from an X6 1055t oc to 3.5ghz on water and I can tell you that I really didn’t need to upgrade but for gaming Intel has better performance. Your video is representing synthetic benchmarks which don’t really apply to gaming
I feel your pain because for the $1000 spent on my upgrade I truly expected better performance.
Because of this antiquated engine using only 3 heavy threads there will never really be any future technology offered by either AMD or Intel to offer better performance in this game.
The onus for this well discussed issue falls directly upon the heads at Anet.

@xristosmk.5608

Hi Mate; I’ve been trying to read your post since the beginning and seeing people arguing about CPU performance and about how it was not delivering enough horse power to the GPU …. simply outrageous !

I only wanna say that i Have exactly the same symptoms as you !! I was playing very well on my PHENOM II X4 955 @3.7GHz and my ASUS Radeon 7790 Direct CUII OC “All Settings On High InGame” Except for Reflections “Terrain and Sky Only” at 1650×1080 I was aroud 30-40 FPS except Close To the Black Lion Trading Company or when there was 50+ players in events or such !

I have noticed A severe Drop in FPS after the Last Patch “Quenn’s Jubilee” and no matter what i did FPS would not change i’m Around 20 fps now and whenever i turn my camera there is stuttering ! even in empty zones and with All ingame graphics options set to LOW ! i’ve tried Catalysts 13.4 13.6Beta 13.8Beta and 13.4 for Radeon 7790 i’ve verified all the recommanded options for catalyst drivers “AA, FSAA etc” Defragmented my Hard Drive Verified Antivirus Exceptions" UAC, SmartScreen …… no way to make the game function as it was before !!!

I’ve tried to reset my overcloking settings for the CPU; nothing changes, i’ve overclocked my GPU ! …. and i had a nice BUG showing up ingame "Character Selection Screen : FPS 60+ after few secdons ingame DROPS to ~14 FPS anywhere in anymap with any number of players or graphics settings …

So i have to admit, i’m a kitten e d o f f now cause i planned to play my favorite game as am actualy on vacation … guess will not !!!

Don’t try to search for the problem where t is not, the game it self is the problem until it is solved, don’t go and listen to people saying ; yeah go n by a 4670k you Proc sucks … they are just not reading / listening to what is said .

And Anet. please !!! try resolving those annoying issues otherwise they will be the last thing people will remember about GW2 before quitting it !

Stormcrow.7513:

Behellagh.1468:

Umbra doesn’t render anything, it simply reports which objects should be passed further along in the rendering process because there’s a chance it’s visible, meaning it couldn’t be 100% excluded, from your current camera location. Any reflection code falls squarely in ArenaNet’s renderer. Water may be a 2nd or more pass after the original render pass. I’m sure reflection probably is it’s own pass.

Umbra does occlusion which doesn’t seem to work for the rendered water underneath the world map. Ever fall through the map and notice the massive ocean that is below us? Play with the reflections in an area that has 0 water, you will notice performance hits because of that ocean. It is apparent that the Umbra occlusion is not really working as intended or is not implemented correctly in the game.

If the surface of the water isn’t included as part of the “polygon soup” fed into the Umbra preprocessor to build the tomb for the zone then the Umbra runtime doesn’t know about it. My point is water surfaces are added later in the rendering process and doesn’t use Umbra or any other occlusion testing at all.

xristosmk.5608:

Nasher.6874:

Your CPU is definitely a bottleneck. Even the high end AMD cpus are pretty bad for games that don’t make use of multi-threading (99% of them) compared to Intels.

To get the most from a 770 you need to be matching it with a mid range i5 at least, plus overclocking. Which also means a new motherboard.

Once more ! Since my cpu worked before, i won’t change it !
End of discussion about changing…

Maybe for gaming Intel is better, but since i am working on this comp too and i need as many cores as i can get at lower costs, AMD is the only way… !
End of discussion about moving to Intel…

Behellagh.1468:

I don’t think the OP is really asking what he could do to make it better. His first post had more to do with how video cards that have radically different performance in other games resulted in little performance gain here. And it boggled his mind that the game is so CPU bound, without realizing that was what he was saying. After all a GTX 770 should be lightyears ahead of a GTS 250.

I already knew GW2 was mostly about CPU, that’s why i could play the game so far ! I didn’t make the topic to ask myself something i already knew. I just wanted some opinions from similar cases that might have been solved or something i am missing without, changing CPU or telling me how things work over and over again. I keep repeating to everyone things i said to the first 2 – 3 people … !

Behellagh.1468:

His 2nd post that since others have noticed this to, and who hasn’t, then something needs to be done because other games perform so well with his hardware. Well those games use different game engines and aren’t putting 100s of players within the same zone.

I said already that i had bad performance standing alone in starting areas too … ! And guess what… ? Ofc there are differences between games but sometimes you have to consider the whole “surrounding environment” if you want something good with your product! So i didn’t literally mean that something needs to be done but mostly i meant that this game will be left behind if it keeps ignoring progression in hardware and software! And to my opinion that really sucks for a game 1 year old that i mostly like !! In other words, i was expressing my disappointment!

Behellagh.1468:

His remaining posts circle back round to being upset that the game’s performance is sub par for the hardware he purchased. I don’t disagree but it’s the result of the game engine. Unless it’s rebuilt from the ground up, which isn’t an easy or quick job.

We are having a discussion over here! No one is upset! You are making assumptions from just plain text! I already made a ticket and waiting for some official response! We just keep discussing on the subject and who knows…maybe something good can come out of this !

Behellagh.1468:

We the technorati here know that when a game is GPU bound, as a lot are, then differences in raw CPU performance are basically moot and higher performing video card means better frame rate. It’s just in this game that isn’t true in areas of the game where frame rate suffers. WvW and Boss events, and now the QP.

Well, i said earlier…! I am not either so young and mindless or too old without knowledge around the subject! I was just seeking for some extra solutions that i probably missed… ! And we should leave wvw, boss events and QP out of discussion, since i never tested at those places cause i wanted pure measurements !!

Behellagh.1468:

And I wouldn’t call his processor old. It can still perform as well as most of the current FX line from AMD.

Ofc it’s not old !! What can you do though with Intel fan boys !! :p

Just for fun … http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaNwsa5-97k

The exclamation points in your original post does convey a degree of frustration or annoyance on your part.

And I have said a number of times there isn’t anything you can do at your end, beyond the obvious, playing with the graphic settings to try and get better performance. I personally switch to performance settings in the graphic options when down in the QP arenas. It’s still a slide show, just a slightly faster slide show. However I’m sure with the horsepower available from a GTX 770 that there isn’t any measurable difference between best performance and best appearance settings.

A problem with the card and PCIe slot not configuring correctly would have shown up in other games.

So you got your answer. Ignore the switch to Intel guys and OC is an art and isn’t for everyone. The game engine is constantly evolving and once they eliminate culling of dynamic objects in PvE I guessing frame rate will drop even further. Unless they find something dumb it’s tough to gain performance while easy to lose it.

Well, frustration or annoyance, i am dissapointed as i said from a game i was waiting for 5 years, playing 1 year and expect a lot more since it’s the best i’ve played.

I got a response from support and they guided me on doing some benchmarking with unigine heaven and report back to them with the results ! Did that and waiting for an answer or so !

Will post more if i have something new from support !

OP,
Below is a link showing some architectural limits specific to gaming with the 1100t processor. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUkvhOhrDVk
Please be advised that even in August 2013 the i5 processor here still would not bottleneck even SLI 780.
The only other suggestion I can think of is to perhaps have you play at 1024×768.
P.S. I have an ivy bridge i7 at 4.2-4.5 (depending on ambient temp) and even though our game engine ( me no programmer) is not perfect, my gpu utilization is mostly strikingly high at 99%. I only have a measly gtx 580 instead of your beastly 770gtx. And turning down settings in game should help. If not, again, that’s indicative of serious bottleneck, which has already been mentioned ad infinitum.
Good luck mate.

Maze.3825:

OP,
Below is a link showing some architectural limits specific to gaming with the 1100t processor. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUkvhOhrDVk
Please be advised that even in August 2013 the i5 processor here still would not bottleneck even SLI 780.
The only other suggestion I can think of is to perhaps have you play at 1024×768.
P.S. I have an ivy bridge i7 at 4.2-4.5 (depending on ambient temp) and even though our game engine ( me no programmer) is not perfect, my gpu utilization is mostly strikingly high at 99%. I only have a measly gtx 580 instead of your beastly 770gtx. And turning down settings in game should help. If not, again, that’s indicative of serious bottleneck, which has already been mentioned ad infinitum.
Good luck mate.

Again and again and again…. ! The video is old. Check the games he is testing. Old ! He also have that in description “Yeah I rigged up my test benches with dual GTX 590s to remove any and all video card bottlenecks (in theory, but instead I just introduced driver limitation bottlenecks)” dunno if there is a difference between driver bottleneck or hardware bottleneck. And anyways, if you see a difference in a video someone else created and uploaded to youtube, still you got no proof of how good GW2 was running on my comp until my problem started. I can point others buying changing or upgrading pc parts by spending my time on youtube watching videos.

Still the matter is being investigated by support and since i ’ve been able to play gw2 in the past, without the problems i have right now, i will remain with my beloved CPU !! In case support points out that it is cpu ONLY related problem then .. i might consider upgrading! No way i am gonna get Intel though, cause as i already mentioned i need as many cores as possible at reasonable cost cause i am working on my computer too besides gaming!

So,
good news ! Got this response on tweaking a little bit with my settings by support! Pasting it for others to see and maybe get help from it !

At this time, I would like you to try the following settings and see if this improves your performance.

1. Right-click on your desktop and select “Nvidia Control Panel.”
2. Once opened, left-click on “3D settings” and select “Adjust image settings with preview.”
3. Select “Use my preference emphasizing” and move the slider to “Performance.”
4. Select “Use the advanced 3D image settings” and left click on “Take me there.”

This should take you to the “Manage 3D Settings” window. Once here:

5. Change “Power Management mode” to “Prefer maximum performance.”
6. Change “Multi-display/mixed GPU acceleration” to “Single display performance mode.”
7. Change “Vertical Sync” to “Use the 3D application settings.”

Once completed, click “Apply” and start up Guild Wars 2.

Once loaded, access the “Graphic Options” window and make the following changes:

1. Change “Refresh Rate” to “60 Hz.”
2. Change “Frame Limiter” to “60.”
3. Change “Reflections” to “None.”
4. Change “Render Sampling” to “Supersample” then back to “Native.”
5. Enable “Vertical Sync” at the bottom.

I don’t really know what did the trick. I can confirm some fps boost with numbers varying from 55-60 fps when playing at starting areas which i find it normal! 30 – 35 fps at Lion’s Arch which is cool ! And 15 – 20 fps at heavily crowded battles in the Crown Pavilion !!Of course all settings are maxed out except Reflections which i’ve put to none as instructed !

By the way GFX card usage climbed a bit to maximum 54 % usage and CPU usage stayed almost the same as before ! Still low usage on GFX …but it might be my CPU slowing it down right now… but hey… !! GW2 plays pretty smooth again! No stutters no nothing and visuals are all high … !! So long Intel fun boys !! Just kidding …

Want to thank Ashe from gw2 support !! And all of you baring with me and my problem !!

Blah. Blah. Blah.
The video is specific to the processor you currently have. My only point I was trying to convey is how ineffective the 1100t was in comparison to another chip that was released in the same year; that is currently still powerful enough to run 780’s in SLI.
I suspect if you were able to OC the eleven hundred t your cpu useage should be increased.

So basically you lowered the settings and got better performance. Big surprise.

Maze.3825:

Blah. Blah. Blah.
The video is specific to the processor you currently have. My only point I was trying to convey is how ineffective the 1100t was in comparison to another chip that was released in the same year; that is currently still powerful enough to run 780’s in SLI.
I suspect if you were able to OC the eleven hundred t your cpu useage should be increased.

Ineffective for you maybe ! I said i can’t have Intel cpu cause i need as many cores i can get cause i use my pc for work too! So for video encoding – rendering by the time i bought 1100t was the best value for money CPU !! Still Intel’s first cpu outperforming the one i have is much more expensive !!

My comp setup as i said can run every game fine (like Crysis maxed out, Assassins Creed Maxed out and many more …) and i just had a minor performance issue with GW2 after upgrading ONLY my GFX card ! Why you bother pointing me what would have been better, or what is better don’t really know !! I only wanted to play GW2 the way i played it before with my new GFX. Since this is solved and i only have reflections to none, that is fine by me ! If i wanna upgrade something else in the future, i might upgrade my CPU! By that time though i would have to consider something that can perform well for my work too and have a reasonable cost !

Fermi.2409:

So basically you lowered the settings and got better performance. Big surprise.

At which point exactly did you see me saying i was playing with low settings !! Everything is on max settings, and only reflections are to none !! I am enjoying GW2 again and for the first time the environment has every detail to be seen !!!
Good try though Fermi on reading… !

Probably he meant the “reflections to none” step.

You lowered most of the main settings that will cause a FPS hit, as well as checked to make sure all settings were right, you very well could have had something set wrong. And without seeing proof of FPS from the old setup and settings used vs the new, we will not know. Also, you take allot of shots at “Intel fan boys”, when we only seem to have an AMD one in this thread? The people suggesting Intel are not doing so because they want you to buy Intel, but because it is known and proven to perform better in this game over AMD, just simple fact at this point.

The video you posted, talked about 8 cores with the AMD and how that means in time with more multithreaded programs it will do better…When it is really 8 threads, the same as the Intel chip. Also, what kind of work are you doing? When speaking about work, such as renders or video encoding etc, you have to look at more than buy in price and look at running costs. in many cases Intel is much faster than AMD, and when waiting on a render etc to finish, that’s time and money wasted, then you also have to look at power costs as most all of Intel chips use far less power, so with less power draw and faster times to complete a given task, cost of running the setup and can be far less.

There are many factors to look at, but the bad news right now for AMD, is even in the best cases, where it’s new chips shine, it is often only on par with current Intel chips. As for the game, we can put blame on Anet, or a third party, or whoever you like, it will not change how the game runs. The only thing we can do is suggest the best hardware for the current state of the game, which right now, is a newer Intel quad, preferably over clocked, with a mid range GPU depending on monitor setup.

As others have already stated, your CPU is too slow for GW2. I recommend upgrading to a cheap i5 2500k or an i7 4770k if you want >=30fps in huge WvW and PvE Zergs.

Ok guys ! This has no meaning at all to keep disgussing it!
From my point of view i am 100% pleased with the money i invested when i bought AMD 1100t ! Like it or not it’s proven to work pretty good and i never had any problems with it!
It’s not too slow for GW2 … you have to try it so that you have the experience! Yes there are faster ones and alot more since i haven’t bought it yesterday ! That’s no news to me ….!
And besides that i see people having same problems of low performance with newer Intel CPUs , so i am JUST fine !!

If i wanna upgrade my CPU to something better i would do it by my standards … ! I never asked anyone’s opinion about that over here! I had a problem which is now solved and i wish i created a support ticket without making it a topic over here !!
I just thought that maybe someone else was epxeriencing the same with me!

@TinkTinkPOOF
Sorry can’t get into more on this! It is solved and everything else right now seem pointless to me! Just returned to paste what worked for me after support helped me out and maybe someone can benefit too making this adjustments !

Hope for a moderator to lock it because the subject right now is irrelevant with the title !!
If anyone wanna keep this, go ahead and make your own topic with relevant title :p
Thanks again !

xristosmk.5608:

At which point exactly did you see me saying i was playing with low settings !! Everything is on max settings, and only reflections are to none !! I am enjoying GW2 again and for the first time the environment has every detail to be seen !!!
Good try though Fermi on reading… !

“Everything is on max settings except the things that aren’t !!”

Yeah, like Tink said, you lowered the settings that are most likely to cause lower performance. So no, you’re not running it maxed, and you lowered settings to get the performance that you wanted, just like you said.

Funnily enough, I actually can max everything just fine on my low-end Intel CPU (except WvW zergs, of course), including reflections/shadows.

Lastly, I’m far from an ‘Intel fanboy’. If anything, I’d rather go AMD- Intel is just the MUCH better option at the point in time for just about anything gaming related.