Guild Wars 2

My account got banned twice and according to the error code i got, it said i was botting.

I am the type of player that loves to grind for the best items, and get thrills from making weapons from the materials I’ve acquired.

Heres the present problem: Being banned while grinding for mats.

After my account was unblocked recently, I stated a concern with support saying how am I being compared with bots/macros. Because from my opinion, Anet really has no way to distinguish bots when it comes to people who farm/grind for cash or mats. Since this is a game based on using a keyboard, the keys that are used to farm/grind are pretty similar in most cases. For instance, if I were to farm something that required me to go around in a circle to kill mobs as they spawn, would I be mistaken as a bot?

That was the question that I’ve given to support and they told me to post it on the offical forums.

Quite frankly, farming/grinding takes a lot of toll on a persons physical and mental health since it requires to do repetitive work on the keyboard, and I believe that people consciously try to find the best method to farm/grind to make their experiences less stressful and end up grinding in a perfect cycle.

Overall, I am pretty doubtful whether people really have concrete evidence to prove whether players are using macros or not. But as of now, I am afraid and concerned whether I should put time and effort into the game to grind for my weapon skins.

It’s because I didn’t bot that I am very shocked. I do get an impression that Gm’s based their bans by comparing their views on how players should be and how much time they should invest in the game. If they believe that it isn’t natural, then it becomes a ban.
I love the idea on how people should grind or work for unique weapon skins but it becomes a mess if they are being compared to “standard” players. There are no standards when it comes to a popular mmorpg like Guild Wars 2. There are numerous of players with a variety amount of game hours for each specific individuals. I believe the differences aren’t really scaled that well and is the reason for the bans.

Well I cant be entirely sure whether the support team that handles reports incorporates their idea of normal game play into their decision whether to terminate an account, but that is the impression being imprinted into me at the moment.

As for the part where you stated about players that farm for a living, the best way to determine that is whether gold is being constantly transferred from the accounts. I’ve kept everything I’ve made on my account, since its mines of course xD

I believe Gm’s need to be a bit more specific on what fair play needs to be. Otherwise, players such as myself, wont be able to enjoy game as we desire while playing fairly.

There is, without any doubt whatsoever, going to be some variance in movements when people grind for mats using hand and keyboard. You are not going to be able to move from one position to another, using the exact same positions, time and time again. There is going to be variance. And I suspect that the ones who use bots, who also try to add variance to their movements, are still getting caught.

Anyway, my point is, it is not possible to run the exact same path, circle or square or whatever, repeatedly, for hours on end, if you are controlling your keyboard manually. Ain’t gonna happen.

anonymouse.9053:

There is, without any doubt whatsoever, going to be some variance in movements when people grind for mats using hand and keyboard. You are not going to be able to move from one position to another, using the exact same positions, time and time again. There is going to be variance. And I suspect that the ones who use bots, who also try to add variance to their movements, are still getting caught.

Anyway, my point is, it is not possible to run the exact same path, circle or square or whatever, repeatedly, for hours on end, if you are controlling your keyboard manually. Ain’t gonna happen.

Even bots aren’t going to do the same exact steps, and when you farm/grind in a limited area, you’re bound to react similar yet different steps. For example, if the bots were to attack a monster, they would always be on a random tile. Which means, there there aren’t much so called “variance”, because if the mob spawns either tile A to Z, it also applies to legit players when they go and attack the mob. Also I never mentioned about going around the same exact path. I’m just arguing on how Anet separate keystrokes from bots and legit players. From how I see it, players still need to use certain keys to reach to the mobs; so does the bots. Well bots are automated, so they are pretty much preset but, how would they tell a difference?

Right now, I’m not sure on what to do in-game due to this issue. I have the patience to grind for hours if I wanted something but it seems a bit concerning with the bans lately.

Lets just say, I am doing events constantly to get exp, loot, and to get karma. Since “legit” players have variance in their movements and actions, it would be normal if I were to do this for maybe 2 hours? For instance, what if I felt like doing events for 10 or 15 hours? Sacrifice a bit of sleep to get what I want faster. Well based on logic, that wouldn’t be considered normal? What if that person decides to do it repetitively for 5 days? In that case, even if there was a person behind the monitor, pressing keys, deciding the best course of action, and properly completing the event, that person will be viewed as a bot because it isn’t normal to do that.

While botting is an issue for most games, I believe it needs a proper investigation, rather than judging it like flipping a coin. From how I see it, persistent and sturdy players, might be mixed in with these bots who can farm for hours without hesitation.

Some bots do indeed move to the exact same spots each time. It depends on how they’re programmed.

ArenaNet isn’t going to divulge how they are revealing their methods of finding bots, nor should they. When I farm for materials, I just do it, sometimes for hours in the same areas, and I don’t worry about any bans. Hasn’t been a problem.

anonymouse.9053:

Some bots do indeed move to the exact same spots each time. It depends on how they’re programmed.

ArenaNet isn’t going to divulge how they are revealing their methods of finding bots, nor should they. When I farm for materials, I just do it, sometimes for hours in the same areas, and I don’t worry about any bans. Hasn’t been a problem.

Well, if you don’t have a problem, then there isn’t a need for your post >_>

Overall, I don’t need them to reveal their methods of finding bots to me or other players, I just want them to give an answer that isn’t copy and pasting from their Code of Conduct. Also I’m asking and pleading because it does affect my game play. I hate doing anything in-game that doesn’t earn me gold or my mats efficiently.
And by playing efficiently in the most viable way seems to land me in the most undesired position. From how I see it, Legit players are similar to bots in terms of game play. The only difference I could probably whether the character’s are able to answer my message within a certain time frame. One time, a person answered me 15 minutes later using an excuse, “I don’t read the chat box when in combat”. And I was next to him for the entire time, spamming hi, hello, ello, and etc. Should I consider that person a bot? Because he was obviously doing similar movements as I am; killing, looting, and going for the next mob in a repeated cycle.

Though, I’m not going to rant anymore. But I was pretty upset on how I got banned twice within 2 days doing a mix of events and grinding. Still, the infamous rewording from the staff needs to change >_>

Gaile Gray could you elaborate on something for me pls. I have made a few posts regarding hackers and the ever increasing rise of said hacking of GW2. But every time I post something regarding these hackers and suggest to implement a reporting tool ingame with a comment box, it gets deleted. I was wondering why this is. All I really need is one response from a dev on this or you preferably, as i miss your frog, and i will leave it alone.

I was also banned 3 times in the past two weeks for botting, and the only difference in my playstyle was because I found a good farming spot within Orr and spent hours farming there. Whether I was banned because of this, I do not know, but I am very reluctant to go back to the location.

Radio Isotope.3045:

Gaile Gray could you elaborate on something for me pls. I have made a few posts regarding hackers and the ever increasing rise of said hacking of GW2. But every time I post something regarding these hackers and suggest to implement a reporting tool ingame with a comment box, it gets deleted. I was wondering why this is. All I really need is one response from a dev on this or you preferably, as i miss your frog, and i will leave it alone.

There is a reporting tool in place. In fact there are two. One via the support, where you can add some more information and one via the ingame bug report that has a “botting” reason to choose from.
Reporting on forums is bad for 2 reasons. One, the involved characters could be hijacked / hacked and Anet wants to give those accounts back to the players without them having to worry about any acquired bad names. Second, somebody accused of botting might never have botted. Just because it looks that way it must not be (although doing it like many others in the same way leaves not much imagination to not being a bot). It is Anets business to check that.

I actually take screenshots of me playing the game for just in-case. If Anet staff want to argue if I was really playing, I can show recent in-game screenshots of me playing the game. It’s the best I can do really. Ultimately the only real best way to show you playing the game would be to video record yourself playing from a camera situated from behind your head. But who’d have the HDD space and Internet to upload hours of game footage?

Loli Ruri.8307:

I actually take screenshots of me playing the game for just in-case. If Anet staff want to argue if I was really playing, I can show recent in-game screenshots of me playing the game. It’s the best I can do really. Ultimately the only real best way to show you playing the game would be to video record yourself playing from a camera situated from behind your head. But who’d have the HDD space and Internet to upload hours of game footage?

Interesting idea but I don’t think that could be uploaded as an attachment >_> Assuming even if you were able to do it. You’ll still have to wait in line for a gm to view your ticket. Well I guess timing + catchy meaningful titles can have an impact as well but any idea could work perhaps.

Michael.4791:

There is a reporting tool in place. In fact there are two. One via the support, where you can add some more information and one via the ingame bug report that has a “botting” reason to choose from.
Reporting on forums is bad for 2 reasons. One, the involved characters could be hijacked / hacked and Anet wants to give those accounts back to the players without them having to worry about any acquired bad names. Second, somebody accused of botting might never have botted. Just because it looks that way it must not be (although doing it like many others in the same way leaves not much imagination to not being a bot). It is Anets business to check that.

I don’t want to do that and then get reprimanded for reporting a hacker when clicking on botting. It says you will get punished for doing so and get a possible ban for trying to help. Instead there are more suspicious activities out there such as precast AoE target marker dodgers and people running up mountains and other things of the sort that you shouldn’t be able to do. This definitely needs its own tab like botting and selling gold with a nice comment section so we can tell them what we saw said toon do. Its becoming worse and makes me not want to put any card info on for ease of use in gem store because I dont trust the programming. Dont get me wrong the game is MARVELOUS and absolutely GORGEOUS and WELL DESIGNED and I could go on for days with the compliments, but there are way too many holes that people are finding. and too many hacking tools coming out of the wood works on private hacker sites that make it way too easy to hack the game it seems. Its kinda like FPS games where when they first started everyone played fair, then one person found out they could hack it and told someone who told someone who etc.. Now you have KIDS little 8-9yr olds ordering aim-bots online with stolen credit cards. This is a very very viable and destructive problem that deserves its own tab at least. My concern is very valid, legit, and well thought out. I pride myself on my military trained logic, problem solving skills, and ability to make sure the person is doing something wrong with repeating the same steps over and over again to make sure the outcome is always the same. Most hackers tend to show off and that’s where they mess up alot, then the observant well trained eye like myself catches them and then wants to report with no option to do so. Also I miss Gaile’s Frog

Laixes.2547:

One time, a person answered me 15 minutes later using an excuse, “I don’t read the chat box when in combat”. And I was next to him for the entire time, spamming hi, hello, ello, and etc. Should I consider that person a bot? Because he was obviously doing similar movements as I am; killing, looting, and going for the next mob in a repeated cycle.

If you did that to me I’d report you for harassment.

@Radio Isotope: I’ll take a chance on botter reporting. I don’t care about reprimands for myself when reporting. I’ll deal with problems as soon as they are arising. I guess the changes are due to the fact that some used reporting others because they were angry about them and not because they were really botting. Such an instance would be revealed through the chat protocol. It is useless for botters because there would be no chat to prove anything. So in fact it looks like a change because of the fact that people abused the bot reports for totally personal griefing. I can live with that. If I report it is for botting. Any report will be declared according the incident.

Michael.4791:

@Radio Isotope: I’ll take a chance on botter reporting. I don’t care about reprimands for myself when reporting. I’ll deal with problems as soon as they are arising. I guess the changes are due to the fact that some used reporting others because they were angry about them and not because they were really botting. Such an instance would be revealed through the chat protocol. It is useless for botters because there would be no chat to prove anything. So in fact it looks like a change because of the fact that people abused the bot reports for totally personal griefing. I can live with that. If I report it is for botting. Any report will be declared according the incident.

Im still not doing that as it has Red letters that mean bad things will happen. Im not comfortable taking such a risk when I enjoy this game so much and dont want to waste my money or time on a risk like that.

P.S. I still miss Gaile’s Frog

Laixes.2547:

Well, if you don’t have a problem, then there isn’t a need for your post >_>

Thank you for your positive contribution!

You had concerns about farming in the same area. I pointed out that I sometimes farm in the same areas and that it hasn’t been a problem. Therefore one can infer that just because one farms in the same area for hours, that doesn’t mean one is going to get banned.

Even Gaile, an employee, said a logical choice is to farm and not worry about it. Not sure what else can be done to convince you otherwise…

If you are that worried about it, don’t farm in the same areas. Move around. What else is there to do… /shrug

anonymouse.9053:

Laixes.2547:

Well, if you don’t have a problem, then there isn’t a need for your post >_>

Thank you for your positive contribution!

You had concerns about farming in the same area. I pointed out that I sometimes farm in the same areas and that it hasn’t been a problem. Therefore one can infer that just because one farms in the same area for hours, that doesn’t mean one is going to get banned.

Even Gaile, an employee, said a logical choice is to farm and not worry about it. Not sure what else can be done to convince you otherwise…

If you are that worried about it, don’t farm in the same areas. Move around. What else is there to do… /shrug

Well I do plan to be more diverse when I grind for cash or for mats. But overall there are concerns when you get banned twice in 2 days, and getting only a one sentence apology because it was a mistake. But as a player, you should be more worried about how the staff handles their bans :p Being ignorant are what they want you to be (Sorry that was a bit mean :/ )

Laixes.2547:

Being ignorant are what they want you to be

No, it is what Anet and legit players NEED it to be. In order to be effective you cannot disclose information about how you do the job.

I’ll admit there is a downturn for those who have real concerns about playing save, but it is absolutely necessary for keeping the bad guys out as good as possible.

I just believe that doing some grinding might look like automated playing from the outside, but that necessary mechanical actions will give off much more revealing data than just grinding. And because I believe this, I feel relatively save with playing without any concerns about being banned.
Of course I would be surprised, if I would turn out to be a false positive and I would be extremely sad about it. But I have confidence that a review of my data would reveal that I am an honest player. Of course I spend money on it, but it is still a game. And as I’m still playing GW1 after more than 7 years, I guess I will have a lot of time to play GW2 too. Being out for some days is a minor concern, if you count on years of future playing.

I can fully understand being frustrated and ticked off if banned unfairly, but there really is nothing you can do except continue playing the game. Their bot detection system can’t be 100% foolproof as that’s impossible to determine. There will be false positives on occasion. I choose to accept that and continue playing the game as I have been, because sitting here worrying about whether farming for mats is going to get me a wrongful suspension is going to serve no purpose whatsoever. I’d rather not worry about it and just enjoy my limited game time, but that’s just me. To each his own.

And what Michael said was spot on.