Guild Wars 2

My understanding is the game engine is using DX9/10, but with DX12 coming out, are we to expect that the devs will boost the DX version to at least 11? I have no idea what’s involved in that, or even if it’s possible without rebuilding the core game engine, but it would be nice to use the features of newer versions.

They wont.

Going form Dx9 to DX11 is no easy task, going from Dx9 to Dx12 would be very similar as Dx12 is just a backend update to Dx11, hence why we wont need new hardware to run DX12. If ur hardware can run Dx11, u can run Dx12 without having to upgrade ur GPU.

But Anet have made it abundantly clear they have no intention of updating and improving their game engine. The performance Gw2 has now is there to stay. If they were to change, they would have told us by now to repair their reputation with this game.

Going to another version of Direct X is fairly expensive since it usually takes rewriting the entire software platform to my understanding. It’s something I don’t think they have the resources for without a monthly subscription.

For my opinion, DirectX12 is very useful for Guild Wars 2 to solve the very low frame rate while zerking in WvWvW and much more…

…DirectX9.0c is too old for that…

Dx12 may be limited to only Win 8 and above if not exclusive to Win 9 or whatever they are planning to call it. To many players on Win 7 for Dx12. Dx11 maybe but it would require a complete restructuring of the game’s renderer.

what a little bit sucks is this

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151048222709209&set=a.135044094208.103264.114036714208&type=1

and yet no news about support Dx11 since then. =(

Grebcol.5984:

what a little bit sucks is this

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151048222709209&set=a.135044094208.103264.114036714208&type=1

and yet no news about support Dx11 since then. =(

Notice that performance wasn’t in their criteria, “gorgeous fantasy world” and “wide range of gaming PCs”.

this is really meh.Weekly news about new stuff and fluffys in the gem shop but now nearly two years no news about kitten support for Dx11.the performance in this game is kitten expecially in wvwvw zerg fights and also in pve.

Behellagh.1468:

Dx12 may be limited to only Win 8 and above if not exclusive to Win 9 or whatever they are planning to call it. To many players on Win 7 for Dx12. Dx11 maybe but it would require a complete restructuring of the game’s renderer.

DX12 will be exclusive to Windows 8, they haven’t mentioned anything about Windows 7 (I hope they do, many gamers and users still use W7, ‘cause it’s WAY better).
However, no new tech will be required. If the GPU supports DX11, it’ll support DX12
And yeah, I’d love to see GW2 use DX11, it’ll be way better. Too bad devs like to keep it for the majority of users which still run XP, but idk who will be running XP and playing on Ultra.. They should better start rewriting the engine and adding DX11 support, it’ll fix lots of issues And I know it’s a lot of work, but don’t they get much profit from the in-game store?

It wont be W8 only.
Microsoft have stated that they estimate that at least 50% of all gamers will have access to DX12.
That’s taking into account that a gamer would require a Fermi GPU or newer card (Nvidia side), basically anything DX11 capable.
With that although Microsoft hasn’t directly come out to say its W7 compatible, the fact they expect 50% of gamers to be able to use Dx12, and the fact that they also say %50+ of gamers are using W7 now + ~%20 using W8 or 8.1, means that yea, W7 compatibility is most likely.

I find this hard to explain, its easy to understand in my head lol. But basically MS’s expectations match up with current W7 vs W8 usage amongst gamers. So yes it will be W7 compatible.

This link explains most of what u need to know about performance of DX 12 and what MS expects.
http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/178904-directx-12-detailed-backwards-compatible-with-all-recent-nvidia-gpus-will-deliver-mantle-like-capabilities

The attached image (taken from the MS DX12 announcement) shows why GW2 would benefit, the top half is whats happening now to players in GW2 (and that’s in DX11!! so DX9 is even worse).

SolarNova.1052:

It wont be W8 only.
Microsoft have stated that they estimate that at least 50% of all gamers will have access to DX12.
That’s taking into account that a gamer would require a Fermi GPU or newer card (Nvidia side), basically anything DX11 capable.
With that although Microsoft hasn’t directly come out to say its W7 compatible, the fact they expect 50% of gamers to be able to use Dx12, and the fact that they also say %50+ of gamers are using W7 now + ~%20 using W8 or 8.1, means that yea, W7 compatibility is most likely.

I find this hard to explain, its easy to understand in my head lol. But basically MS’s expectations match up with current W7 vs W8 usage amongst gamers. So yes it will be W7 compatible.

This link explains most of what u need to know about performance of DX 12 and what MS expects.
http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/178904-directx-12-detailed-backwards-compatible-with-all-recent-nvidia-gpus-will-deliver-mantle-like-capabilities

The attached image (taken from the MS DX12 announcement) shows why GW2 would benefit, the top half is whats happening now to players in GW2 (and that’s in DX11!! so DX9 is even worse).

But that chart shows multiple rendering threads (plus it’s comparing Dx11 to Dx12). We got the one. Until that changes it’s impact is minor.

SolarNova.1052:

It wont be W8 only.
Microsoft have stated that they estimate that at least 50% of all gamers will have access to DX12.
That’s taking into account that a gamer would require a Fermi GPU or newer card (Nvidia side), basically anything DX11 capable.
With that although Microsoft hasn’t directly come out to say its W7 compatible, the fact they expect 50% of gamers to be able to use Dx12, and the fact that they also say %50+ of gamers are using W7 now + ~%20 using W8 or 8.1, means that yea, W7 compatibility is most likely.

I find this hard to explain, its easy to understand in my head lol. But basically MS’s expectations match up with current W7 vs W8 usage amongst gamers. So yes it will be W7 compatible.

This link explains most of what u need to know about performance of DX 12 and what MS expects.
http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/178904-directx-12-detailed-backwards-compatible-with-all-recent-nvidia-gpus-will-deliver-mantle-like-capabilities

The attached image (taken from the MS DX12 announcement) shows why GW2 would benefit, the top half is whats happening now to players in GW2 (and that’s in DX11!! so DX9 is even worse).

An easier way is to look at the Win7 and Win8 EoL support schedule. Its safe to say any new API level features will be adopted to Win7 as long as they are released with in the Support table. And it might be rolled into a Service Pack when its all said and done.

As for the OS market share, Win7 is still dominate. And until updates and feature packs are not available for it anymore (EoL), it will remain that way for a good while yet.

I can totally see DX12 being added to Win7 after a while.

BESIDES the work involved to develop a newer DX version client, this will never happen for the simple reason that doing so would either FORCE everyone to update to a DX11 / DX12 capable hardware / OS combo (not going to happen) or they would have to release and maintain 2 different versions of the client. This pretty much doubles all maintenance and testing work (not to mention the development work involved in the new Direct X version), so this is not a likely scenario either.

On the DX12 Win 8 issue, Microsoft will bring all guns to bear on forcing users to switch to Windows 8 from Windows 7 to avoid the current Windows XP situation in the future. If DX12 proves to be a “must have” for PC gaming, it’s entirely possible that MS will dig in it’s heals and “encourage” Windows 8 upgrades to get DX12 on your system.

Then again, DX12 does have competition that might quash that if they gain any traction before then. If DX12 faces legitimate risk of market share loss, it will be released to Win 7 sooner than later.

Brother Grimm.5176:

This will never happen for the simple reason that doing so would either FORCE everyone to update to a DX11 / DX12 capable hardware / OS combo (not going to happen) or they would have to release and maintain 2 different versions of the client. This pretty much doubles all maintenance and testing work, so this is not a likely scenario either.

No, they could just include 2 different engines for the game. DX9 for Legacy support, and DX* for whatever version they settle on. So they would not need 2 different clients for it to work. Just different included Graphical API’s.

Many games do this, Why Anet does not for GW2 is beyond me at this point. It has been proven time and time again that the single threaded API for DX9 is what holds this game back.

sirsquishy.8531:

Brother Grimm.5176:

This will never happen for the simple reason that doing so would either FORCE everyone to update to a DX11 / DX12 capable hardware / OS combo (not going to happen) or they would have to release and maintain 2 different versions of the client. This pretty much doubles all maintenance and testing work, so this is not a likely scenario either.

No, they could just include 2 different engines for the game. DX9 for Legacy support, and DX* for whatever version they settle on. So they would not need 2 different clients for it to work. Just different included Graphical API’s.

Many games do this, Why Anet does not for GW2 is beyond me at this point. It has been proven time and time again that the single threaded API for DX9 is what holds this game back.

The different “graphical API” IS the majority of the GW2 client. I have no doubt that most if not all of the .DAT file would be the same, but the client WOULD be different code and would have to be tested separately. Also, I don’t think you or I are knowledgeable enough to say for sure WHAT content changes might be needed to support DX12. IF significant changes are required to the data file to support DX12 they would possibly need to support, supply and test multiple DAT files.

If other games were built from the ground up to support multiple DX versions (they MUST since their installer HAS to load different libraries at installation time) then that was a decision made in development, not something they added 2 years after release. Implying this is something that is easy to ADD to a game because other games were DEVELOPED that way is not being realistic.

Nobody is disputing that DX9 is a limiting factor in GW2. I’m just stating that the reality is that NOBODY is going to retool a 2 year old game for DX12. Asking for this is just silly.

Brother Grimm.5176:

sirsquishy.8531:

Brother Grimm.5176:

This will never happen for the simple reason that doing so would either FORCE everyone to update to a DX11 / DX12 capable hardware / OS combo (not going to happen) or they would have to release and maintain 2 different versions of the client. This pretty much doubles all maintenance and testing work, so this is not a likely scenario either.

No, they could just include 2 different engines for the game. DX9 for Legacy support, and DX* for whatever version they settle on. So they would not need 2 different clients for it to work. Just different included Graphical API’s.

Many games do this, Why Anet does not for GW2 is beyond me at this point. It has been proven time and time again that the single threaded API for DX9 is what holds this game back.

The different “graphical API” IS the majority of the GW2 client. I have no doubt that most if not all of the .DAT file would be the same, but the client WOULD be different code and would have to be tested separately. Also, I don’t think you or I are knowledgeable enough to say for sure WHAT content changes might be needed to support DX12. IF significant changes are required to the data file to support DX12 they would possibly need to support, supply and test multiple DAT files.

If other games were built from the ground up to support multiple DX versions (they MUST since their installer HAS to load different libraries at installation time) then that was a decision made in development, not something they added 2 years after release. Implying this is something that is easy to ADD to a game because other games were DEVELOPED that way is not being realistic.

Nobody is disputing that DX9 is a limiting factor in GW2. I’m just stating that the reality is that NOBODY is going to retool a 2 year old game for DX12. Asking for this is just silly.

Never said it would be easy. But there are a lot of games that shipped DX9 then their Devs added DX10 and 11 support to after the fact. They left DX9 intact in the game’s Options so legacy GPUs could support the game (Rather then only DX10/11 support).

And there is no doubt that a completely new client would need to be created. However, there would be no need to maintain 2 clients for this to work.

As for testing, they should be doing a lot more testing on their releases then they currently do. There are so many bugs and issues in the game , still even since launch, its not even funny. So maybe them adding an updated Graphical API to their development list would be a value add for us players. As they would have to open a public testing area to get the most out of R&D.

I may not be a programer any longer (I used to work for Tivoli and Oracle in development years ago, but now I’m just a CTO), But I know with the right team this can be done in a timely manner. It just comes down to the bottom line (cash), and the return on investment for NCsoft.

So, In my honest professional opinion and with what everyone has proven on this forum, ANet is going to have to change something eventually. The more stuff they add to the game just puts that much more stress on their already over worked DX9 API. (30FPS in the ‘broken’ Lion’s Arch, with no one around is a prime example of what I am talking about)

As a CTO I would think you understood the economics of this from a business point of view. As a player, you can wish for this, but I think if you look at the broader picture, you would agree it does not make economic sense to purse this kind of complete overhaul.

My understanding of how DX10 and DX11 works, your ENGINE has to built and/or be heavily modified to support it so that the major performance improvements are actually possible. Many of the games you speak of (if not all) use 3rd party engines that have had this modification done by the Engine developers, not the game developers. Anet is NOT in this boat, since their Engine is proprietary.

Also, many of the games you speak of are FPS and LIVE or DIE by their shinny “eye candy” so they have a (real or perceived) competitive reason to support the newer DXs that allow for some flashy new features. That is not the case with an MMO.

You may be right that “something has to change”, but performing this major surgery on an existing game that is currently (maybe not for long) making money, is NOT the only answer. While I’m sure Anet Devs want to do everything they can to improve the game experience we players have, NC Soft calls the shots on something like this and I don’t see them ponying up the resources involved at this point in GW2 life cycle.

Brother Grimm.5176:

As a CTO I would think you understood the economics of this from a business point of view. As a player, you can wish for this, but I think if you look at the broader picture, you would agree it does not make economic sense to purse this kind of complete overhaul.

My understanding of how DX10 and DX11 works, your ENGINE has to built and/or be heavily modified to support it so that the major performance improvements are actually possible. Many of the games you speak of (if not all) use 3rd party engines that have had this modification done by the Engine developers, not the game developers. Anet is NOT in this boat, since their Engine is proprietary.

Also, many of the games you speak of are FPS and LIVE or DIE by their shinny “eye candy” so they have a (real or perceived) competitive reason to support the newer DXs that allow for some flashy new features. That is not the case with an MMO.

You may be right that “something has to change”, but performing this major surgery on an existing game that is currently (maybe not for long) making money, is NOT the only answer. While I’m sure Anet Devs want to do everything they can to improve the game experience we players have, NC Soft calls the shots on something like this and I don’t see them ponying up the resources involved at this point in GW2 life cycle.

Yea I do, and I think I made that pretty clear in my last response. Also, with GW2 being Buy to Play (not F2P or Sub Based) In China’s market, chances of a change this big coming to GW2 is probably non-existent at this point.

I was really holding out for a Sub in the Chinese market (To match every other MMO out in that area) in hopes that would drive R&D for a better game engine design. But I can no longer see that happening due to Cost vs Investment at this point.

So, oh well LOL