Guild Wars 2

So locx, squish, and Nova are always telling people to run GPU-Z while GW2 is running in order to trouble shoot GPU issues.
I just realized I have GPU-z, but had yet to run it. (since CPU-Z gives you a some gpu info) so i tried it and realized I have been only using PCI-E 2.0.

googled some info and found this to force PCI-E 3.0: http://www.trickmasterpc.com/force-enable-gen3-pcie-3.html

I realized this only helps a small amount of players, but WOW I’m getting sick FPS.
In a small zerg in wvw (10-15) I stayed between 80 and 120 FPS.

I’ll test it some more later with screenshots in a bigger zerg.

Won’t make a difference. Problem isn’t on the GPU side of the equation. Plus that article lies. Actual performance difference between PCIe 2.0 and 3.0, not theoretical but actual, is minuscule, under 10% and that’s in games were the engine is designed for maximum FPS to begin with.

It’s like using a Ferrari to deliver the mail in a nice suburban neighborhood. Sure it can get from mailbox to mailbox slightly faster but the time saved isn’t as much as you would expect over the standard mail truck.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/07/18/pci_express_20_vs_30_gpu_gaming_performance_review/8#.Ut7_URAo74Y

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/07/18/pci_express_20_vs_30_gpu_gaming_performance_review/9#.Ut7_jBAo74Y

Here is a screenshot in Lions Arch. 77 FPS. It actually spiked up to 80 but came back down to 75-77.

65 was my max pre 3.0 so maybe 10% is accurate (ish) but its worth it, and your silly for saying otherwise.

Becouse i run a LGA 2011 rig like urself Coffee, my board is physicaly capable of running PCIe3.0 but only runs at 2.0, apparently becouse of some time constraints befor launch to get it legitably certified. Even so it can be patched and forced to 3.0.
I have never bothered to do so as most online tests have shown little to no change in FPS unless ur actualy at the limit of PCI-e 2.0 x16 bandwidth capabilities, which from what i last heared isnt an issue with single GPU setups.

I may however give it a go within the next couple of weeks, if i do ill make sure to update this post on any changes..atm though im concentrating on finishing of my GPU water loop(PC is in pieces atm, always fun/frustrating trying to install/mod things into places their not meant to go :P – typing from laptop), OC the GPU some more, and then re doing my CPU overclock (may try getting 4.7ghz (CPU is still on air) if i can keep voltage around 1.4v)

ohhhhh custom water loop. show us pictures when you done

The increase is minimal indeed, but it’s still an increase. I don’t see too many reasons to stay at 2.0 if you can go 3.0, so this is some interesting piece of advice, thanks for that!

I still have an LGA 775 board that only supports 2.0, however I’m finally finishing my upgrade next week so I might give it a go and see how much it helps.

Also I doubt it gives any increase in big zerg fights because of the CPU restrictions, but better to test it than speculate of course!

My comment wasn’t suggesting to stay at 2.0, just that the link which states " PCIe 2.0 speeds which significantly hinders system and gaming performance" is patently false. A 10% improvement in existing games isn’t significantly anything.

Should we make a thread which contains all the tips, tweaking, etc? Would BE alot easier just to give link there than always write same tips? What do you say? I can maintain it IF none else wants.

No, it pretty much isn’t. When 10% is decent amount of frames the fps is high enough already not to make too much of a difference. This could be stacked with other minor tweaks, though, as 20% could have a huge impact on someone.

I was’t accusing you of that, it was more of a general statement. I just didn’t see too much of credit given to Coffee for his nice discovery

MakkeOnMies.4718:

Should we make a thread which contains all the tips, tweaking, etc? Would BE alot easier just to give link there than always write same tips? What do you say? I can maintain it IF none else wants.

I was just thinking of this the other day. Even if it’s not stickied nor people wouldn’t read it first we could point them to it. After all 90% of the cause of fps issues are found and fixed by the same old hw monitoring, update installing and component replacing

Behellagh.1468:

My comment wasn’t suggesting to stay at 2.0, just that the link which states " PCIe 2.0 speeds which significantly hinders system and gaming performance" is patently false. A 10% improvement in existing games isn’t significantly anything.

What Behellagh said here is the truth. Going from 2.0 to 3.0 won’t solve anything really. There are numerous tests out there that can confirm the performance increase is minor, at best.

Here’s just one example:
http://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Impact-of-PCI-E-Speed-on-Gaming-Performance-518/

MakkeOnMies.4718:

Should we make a thread which contains all the tips, tweaking, etc? Would BE alot easier just to give link there than always write same tips? What do you say? I can maintain it IF none else wants.

It is a good idea. I’ll try to put something together.

NeedCoffee.1402:

MakkeOnMies.4718:

Should we make a thread which contains all the tips, tweaking, etc? Would BE alot easier just to give link there than always write same tips? What do you say? I can maintain it IF none else wants.

It is a good idea. I’ll try to put something together.

Okey, reserve next post when making that topic because im almost sure you will end up finding digit limit on 1 post when putting all tips together.

PCi-E 2.0 to 3.0, As you have seen, is about a 10% gain.

Now, that being said, That 10% Gain affects Low end side of the FPS as well. While GW2 is heavily CPU bound, you will get 2-3 MORE FPS with PCI-E3.0 then 2.0 at absolute Lows as well (Where it really makes a difference IMHO). So that Low 8 becomes 11~.

If your GPU and PCI-E Slots Supports 3.0, there is no reason NOT to enable it. It’s a free 10% Gain.

If your GPU is of High quality (anything that can push 80-100FPS right now) and is PCi-E 2.0, there is no reason to upgrade. You would have to consider the MB and the GPU for a 10% gain over your current, Maybe More depending on Options. But you will be looking at Hundreds to upgrade for that 10%.

I believe i had config for pci-e in BIOS which let me force 2.0 or 3.0, i will do testing when i get to home and share the results. Do you guys have any other bechmark in mind than unigine heaven for this?

MakkeOnMies.4718:

I believe i had config for pci-e in BIOS which let me force 2.0 or 3.0, i will do testing when i get to home and share the results. Do you guys have any other bechmark in mind than unigine heaven for this?

GLXGears, 3dmarks(any version).

The 2.0-3.0 is sorely going to be a FPS increase.

sirsquishy.8531:

MakkeOnMies.4718:

I believe i had config for pci-e in BIOS which let me force 2.0 or 3.0, i will do testing when i get to home and share the results. Do you guys have any other bechmark in mind than unigine heaven for this?

GLXGears, 3dmarks(any version).

The 2.0-3.0 is sorely going to be a FPS increase.

Yeah i believe too its going to increase fps but how much is the difference is my question.

MakkeOnMies.4718:

sirsquishy.8531:

MakkeOnMies.4718:

I believe i had config for pci-e in BIOS which let me force 2.0 or 3.0, i will do testing when i get to home and share the results. Do you guys have any other bechmark in mind than unigine heaven for this?

GLXGears, 3dmarks(any version).

The 2.0-3.0 is sorely going to be a FPS increase.

Yeah i bealive too its going to increase fps but how much is the difference is my question.

About 10%. Both on High end FPS and Low end FPS.

okey i found the slot config and got it locked to max 2.0@16x now, i choose to download 3dmark11 and unigine heaven for testing as i dont seem to find glxgears on windows.
———————————————————————————————————————————————————————
one note, i did drop my graphic card to stock clock rates so the scores are comparable, if someone want to measure his card versus “high” end card.

i did run unigine heaven with following options -> DX11, Ultra quality, Extreme tesselation, 8x AA, FullHD resolution.(1920×1080)

results:
pci-e 2.0: FPS 49.9, Min FPS 8.2, Max FPS 102.5, Score 1257
pci-e 3.0: FPS 50.6, MIN FPS 25.4!!, Max fps 103.3, score 1274
conclusion: Minium framerate got dramatical(~310%) boost with 3.0 slot config. max and average fps stayed practically same within margin of error. also temperatures on GPU stayed same on both slot configs.

i will run 3dmark11 fire strike with “stock” settings
pci-e 2.0: GPU score 10203, below is the link for run details.
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/2275281
pci-e 3.0: 10234, below link to run details
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/2275596

sirsquishy.8531:

PCi-E 2.0 to 3.0, As you have seen, is about a 10% gain.

Now, that being said, That 10% Gain affects Low end side of the FPS as well. While GW2 is heavily CPU bound, you will get 2-3 MORE FPS with PCI-E3.0 then 2.0 at absolute Lows as well (Where it really makes a difference IMHO). So that Low 8 becomes 11~.

If your GPU and PCI-E Slots Supports 3.0, there is no reason NOT to enable it. It’s a free 10% Gain.

If your GPU is of High quality (anything that can push 80-100FPS right now) and is PCi-E 2.0, there is no reason to upgrade. You would have to consider the MB and the GPU for a 10% gain over your current, Maybe More depending on Options. But you will be looking at Hundreds to upgrade for that 10%.

I fail to understand your math here a bit, at 10 fps 10% increase means only 1 fps right? Only at 20 it becomes 22 and at 30 it becomes 33. Also, as you know, for most people (in GW2) the situation where your FPS is ~10 is when your CPU lacks the power, adding power to GPU shouldn’t help, right?

locx.6412:

sirsquishy.8531:

PCi-E 2.0 to 3.0, As you have seen, is about a 10% gain.

Now, that being said, That 10% Gain affects Low end side of the FPS as well. While GW2 is heavily CPU bound, you will get 2-3 MORE FPS with PCI-E3.0 then 2.0 at absolute Lows as well (Where it really makes a difference IMHO). So that Low 8 becomes 11~.

If your GPU and PCI-E Slots Supports 3.0, there is no reason NOT to enable it. It’s a free 10% Gain.

If your GPU is of High quality (anything that can push 80-100FPS right now) and is PCi-E 2.0, there is no reason to upgrade. You would have to consider the MB and the GPU for a 10% gain over your current, Maybe More depending on Options. But you will be looking at Hundreds to upgrade for that 10%.

I fail to understand your math here a bit, at 10 fps 10% increase means only 1 fps right? Only at 20 it becomes 22 and at 30 it becomes 33. Also, as you know, for most people (in GW2) the situation where your FPS is ~10 is when your CPU lacks the power, adding power to GPU shouldn’t help, right?

PCI-3.0 isnt just the GPU though its also the NB link to the CPU.

And its very Difficult to give a solid % when dealing with such Low FPS we get in this game. But the numbers i gave as examples are what I personally experienced between 2.0 and 3.0 (I had Chipset Driver issues for a while, which later got resolved…to enable 3.0 again).

So while you may get a low 8FPS on a low map one day, tomorrow your max low might be 10FPS (Depends on Class spell makeups that are being throwing in your characters visual area, as well as how lazy the players are being about attacking.) But I went from a low single Digit to a low double digit. Since Fixing my System to be 3.0, I have not had a low single digit FPS since.

Here is a decent write up on CPU>GPU and GPu>CPU benches

http://www.behardware.com/art/imprimer/850/

The increased Bandwidth from the GPU to CPU when the CPU is stressed helps out a bit. Which explains the increased lows from 2.0 to 3.0, respectively.

But the game benchmarks in that article shows minimal frame rate improvement (1%) with single GPU.

Got to remember the computer works as a unit and not as a sum of it’s parts. And it’s true you really can’t talk about ‘performance in zerg with x versus y’ for the reasons you listed, you really can’t simulate the moment afterward. Better just hope the game engine gets a little more optimized or a miracle happens and we get those 12 GHz processors for mainstream use soon

locx.6412:

Got to remember the computer works as a unit and not as a sum of it’s parts. And it’s true you really can’t talk about ‘performance in zerg with x versus y’ for the reasons you listed, you really can’t simulate the moment afterward. Better just hope the game engine gets a little more optimized or a miracle happens and we get those 12 GHz processors for mainstream use soon

+1, I want a 16core 12GHZ + HT Intel i34 CPU :-)

But its true, the computer will only be as fast as its slowest component (something we all learned back when ISA slots were still used)

okey ill put the results here or they get lost middle of the thread ->

one note, i did drop my graphic card to stock clock rates so the scores are comparable, if someone want to measure his card versus “high” end card.

i did run unigine heaven with following options , DX11, Ultra quality, Extreme tesselation, 8x AA, FullHD resolution.(1920×1080)

results:
pci-e 2.0: FPS 49.9, Min FPS 8.2, Max FPS 102.5, Score 1257
pci-e 3.0: FPS 50.6, MIN FPS 25.4!!, Max fps 103.3, score 1274
conclusion: Minium framerate got dramatical(~310%) boost with 3.0 slot config. max and average fps stayed practically same within margin of error. also temperatures on GPU stayed same on both slot configs.

i will run 3dmark11 fire strike with “stock” settings
pci-e 2.0: GPU score 10203, below is the link for run details.
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/2275281
pci-e 3.0: 10234, below link to run details
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/2275596

3dmark didnt receive any boost at all, scores did stay in margin of “error”.

so my thougths are 2.0 → 3.0 will improve performance on situations when test/game required extreme amount of raw power, and the increace is quite huge, since if it was game 8.2fps to 25fps would make game playable.

MakkeOnMies.4718:

okey ill put the results here or they get lost middle of the thread ->

one note, i did drop my graphic card to stock clock rates so the scores are comparable, if someone want to measure his card versus “high” end card.

i did run unigine heaven with following options , DX11, Ultra quality, Extreme tesselation, 8x AA, FullHD resolution.(1920×1080)

results:
pci-e 2.0: FPS 49.9, Min FPS 8.2, Max FPS 102.5, Score 1257
pci-e 3.0: FPS 50.6, MIN FPS 25.4!!, Max fps 103.3, score 1274
conclusion: Minium framerate got dramatical(~310%) boost with 3.0 slot config. max and average fps stayed practically same within margin of error. also temperatures on GPU stayed same on both slot configs.

i will run 3dmark11 fire strike with “stock” settings
pci-e 2.0: GPU score 10203, below is the link for run details.
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/2275281
pci-e 3.0: 10234, below link to run details
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/2275596

3dmark didnt receive any boost at all, scores did stay in margin of “error”.

so my thougths are 2.0 -> 3.0 will improve performance on situations when test/game required extreme amount of raw power, and the increace is quite huge, since if it was game 8.2fps to 25fps would make game playable.

Pretty much coincides with what I am seeing for Lows and my theory behind it.

PCI-E3.0 has more BW then compared to 2.0. the CPU AND GPU will both benefit from it. epically under heavily stressed CPU scenarios. Which GW2 is one of those scenarios :-)

Aye ill post pics when im done, though it wont be anything special, iv gone with white opaque piping, and standard distilled water. The color will eventually come from some blue (top) and white (bottom) LED’s ill add inside the case, but until i get around to buying them ill be sticking with the Green LED strip i curently have which ,IMO, is to bright as it washes out the entire inside with green :P.
The res will have the stock white LED for the glow stick within it. The fittings are Monsoon Blue fittings.
The CPU area will still be dwarfed by the NH-D14 cooler and Noctua fans.

I will however have the PSU and all the wires at the bottom along with the D5 pump, thats connected to the tube res, completly covered by a pair of Cooler Master PSU covers sprayed white.
If ur interested in what my rig looked like prior to me dismantling it for this upgrade then attached is the only real shot i have of it atm. It doesnt have the PSU covers in on that pic and iv re managed the wires u can see going along the bottom of the motherboard.

Back on topic. I see no reason not to force on PCI-e 3.0 if u can do it, i personaly have just never got around to doing it as the performance increase for me wouldnt likely be much to speak about, that said, an incease is an increase none the less

As for a all in one thread, a user from back when i first started helping on this forum made a good thread for troubleshooting problems and other general advice and guidence.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/tech/FPS-GPU-CPU-Performance-issues-FAQ/first#post542540.
I dont think Kirito is very active in the tech forum anymore, so maybe who ever takes up the task could use his thread as a template or for some info to put into a new one.

nice rig I like the NH-D14 push/pull. I realize it wouldn’t make a noticeable difference but couldn’t you use 3 fans for push, pull, pull?

I’m still reading over Kirito’s guide. Why did this never get stickied?
Ill make sure I reference it. I like how he made the table of contents as links to posts further down the thread. Not sure i know how that do that, but I’m sure i can figure it out.

Technicaly it is in push/pull/pull, as the rear case fan is pulling air out inline with where the cooler is.

It never got stickied becouse anything like that, that gets sticked would need Anets ratification, and they wont ratify it as it would technicaly be admitting to certain performance issues that are pointed out within said post, and go against their offical system requirments.

SolarNova.1052:

Technicaly it is in push/pull/pull, as the rear case fan is pulling air out inline with where the cooler is.

It never got stickied becouse anything like that, that gets sticked would need Anets ratification, and they wont ratify it as it would technicaly be admitting to certain performance issues that are pointed out within said post, and go against their offical system requirments.

Ain’t that the truth.
Their system requirements should be sectioned off in;

Casual PvE
Casual WvW/PvP
Serious PvE – Fully Qued Map
Serious WvW – Fully Queued Map
*Disclaimer – Our Engine Sucks, Even with the latest hardware we cannot make our game run as smooth as every other game in the virtual world. Sorry!!

SolarNova.1052:

I like your Rig. Nice and clean…and that chair! Must be one fun time to do anything PC Chore related!

What keyboard/Mouse do you use (I assume they are wireless)?

I dont do wireless, i have a ‘wired’ G15 Logitech keyboard, and a ‘wired’ MadCatz R.A.T 7 MMO mouse with G.L.I.D.E 7 pad. I would like to get a mechanical keyboard, but i just love the LCD screen on my current keyboard so i wont be getting a new one till a mechanical keyboard comes out with a LCD screen.
Due to the distance between my chair/where i sit, and where my computer is, when i have tried wireless in the past (many many years back) the signal would be crap, its likely much better nowerdays, but i have no issue what so ever with wired perfierals so i stick with them.

As for my chair, yea is nice dont get me wrong, but its very old now, it was my great grandfathers chair, its in desperate need of replacment. Anything with the same style and/or size however is rather pricey so i wont be getting one till im done with my rig, so likely in another year or so.
Im planing on buying a 4k monitor somtime around March hopefully (Asus 39" model in all likelihood) and then i need to save to add my CPU into the water loop which will require a second rad up top 240×40 size and the block.

4k moniter well best save up for 2 4gb graphics cards probally if you want useable fps at that res

chris.9142:

4k moniter well best save up for 2 4gb graphics cards probally if you want useable fps at that res

For playing GW2 at 4K with acceptable FPS you’d probably want an Intel i7 4960X Extreme Edition at like… 5.3 GHz to get even playable FPS in wvw. :l

Resolution doesnt make much difference in performance in regard to the CPU in GW2. I run at 3200×1800 already and have comparable FPS to those with simular CPU grunt running at 1080p or 1440p.

However for other games, yea a single 780 will struggle, specially at max settings. With that said it will still look better than 1080p even if i have to lower a few settings.
Also AA will be off or at a low level i.e 2xMSAA.
VRAM wont be an issue unless ur running modded games, even Crysis 3 doesnt break 3gb VRAM unless u run 4xMSAA (even then it only just breaks it), which u really dont need to do.

Got my loop filled and going now, im just leak testing and bleeding the microbubbles out now. I think though im going to have to remount the custom L bracket i made for the D5 Photon res/pump becouse its causing my case to hum, even though i used 5mm plastic spacers, ill use some dense foam instead. Its just gunna be a PITA to do whilst the Photon 270 full of water :P .

Update:
Everything is back together and running after startup GPU was idling at 20c, after 30 minutes of constant Unigine Valley loops at max GPU usuage temps toped out at 46c. This is with the stock 780 Classified LN2 bios on max 1.2v overvolt with 1241mhz on the core and 7200mhz efective RAM. Going to get a custom BIOS and download the voltage tuner to get 1.3v maybe even 1.35v (max) and see if i can get somewhere around 1350mhz. Fans are oly at 850-900 RPM on the rad, and the pump is on minimum (1 of 5 speeds), so i got room to reduce temps some more if i increase the pump speed and fan speeds.
Will post pics tomorrow, though again, its nothing special to look at imo.