Guild Wars 2

Everyone outside of SF thinks they know what is going on at SF and has an opinion on it. That description sums up this and the last thread,

Azreell.1568:

ptitminou.6489:

bob.8632:

ptitminou.6489:

they aren’t trying to be solo heroes. We’re losing the solo heroes slowly but surely on SF, which is a great thing, we just need to fix our biggest problem now (coverage) so people can truly see the progress that has been done.

Perception isn’t reality. SF has always zerged people, but each week there are actually more small role players (your: solo heroes).

You have to remember balling up in a tanky support build is much easier than stepping out in a small group and getting things done.

You need both to be successful, stop trying to model your server after Tier 1 and instead model it after the more successful Upper Bronze/Lower Silver servers and you might have something.

Trying to get everyone to run PVT/clerics/etc and spam 1 will only make them resent the playstyle. The main thing I personally think SF needs is to use the existing guilds more effectively. You have more players than HoD, but for whatever reason you aren’t getting them into WvW or if you are they aren’t being used (coordinated) effectively.

• It’s not “harder”, its a timegate created by Anet so you can’t switch gear. So you should go with the absolute best gear available for teamplay first, then do w/e. All who have alts get kittened as usual.
• Most people play MMOs for the PvE since even TF2 offers better PvP than GW2.
• The supply system makes solo heroes a thorn in your side, nothing else. Only 1 party is to blame for bad game design though and it is not the players. If it weren’t for that, smaller groups would indeed be worth it.
• There is a 24 hour clock. Judging our population when we have the most online is idiocy. Most of the latino community plays during the same time slot as our primetime which skews your perception (We both all “empty” in Bronze compared to BG or JQ standards)
• Most of the existing guilds on SF refuse to listen. Basically, CoSA, ICE and StaR try to use some kind of strategy and are willing to set up to work with others, but the others just are wildcards, completely randomized play and if we ask them something, they wont do it. Luckily, they are rather small, all except one, so if we do get mergers, they would get tossed aside rather quickly.

Quite frankly DH has just as many wildcards.

It’s my opinion you guys are just too stuck on the zergs and always have been. You need to embrace the smaller / solo aspect more.

1 guy alone flipping camps and being annoying can make a HUGE impact on the map.

I don’t know how many times during our tower takes and so on – I took a camp in that bl only to cause you to send your mini zerg to try and take it back because I know you will as to split up your force.

It’s not always necessary to send 5-10 people to take 1 camp back especially when we are sieging you.

Things like that are what you need to work on imo.

So all that was you trying to feel important because you solo cap camps?
If we care enough to send people take it back right away, you’re more than likely helping us by giving us a free RI where we know we wont be attacked from, giving us time to check everything else. If people go to the camp while being sieged, we either have a big group nearby or its simply impossible to defend so people move away.

ptitminou.6489:

Azreell.1568:

ptitminou.6489:

bob.8632:

ptitminou.6489:

they aren’t trying to be solo heroes. We’re losing the solo heroes slowly but surely on SF, which is a great thing, we just need to fix our biggest problem now (coverage) so people can truly see the progress that has been done.

Perception isn’t reality. SF has always zerged people, but each week there are actually more small role players (your: solo heroes).

You have to remember balling up in a tanky support build is much easier than stepping out in a small group and getting things done.

You need both to be successful, stop trying to model your server after Tier 1 and instead model it after the more successful Upper Bronze/Lower Silver servers and you might have something.

Trying to get everyone to run PVT/clerics/etc and spam 1 will only make them resent the playstyle. The main thing I personally think SF needs is to use the existing guilds more effectively. You have more players than HoD, but for whatever reason you aren’t getting them into WvW or if you are they aren’t being used (coordinated) effectively.

• It’s not “harder”, its a timegate created by Anet so you can’t switch gear. So you should go with the absolute best gear available for teamplay first, then do w/e. All who have alts get kittened as usual.
• Most people play MMOs for the PvE since even TF2 offers better PvP than GW2.
• The supply system makes solo heroes a thorn in your side, nothing else. Only 1 party is to blame for bad game design though and it is not the players. If it weren’t for that, smaller groups would indeed be worth it.
• There is a 24 hour clock. Judging our population when we have the most online is idiocy. Most of the latino community plays during the same time slot as our primetime which skews your perception (We both all “empty” in Bronze compared to BG or JQ standards)
• Most of the existing guilds on SF refuse to listen. Basically, CoSA, ICE and StaR try to use some kind of strategy and are willing to set up to work with others, but the others just are wildcards, completely randomized play and if we ask them something, they wont do it. Luckily, they are rather small, all except one, so if we do get mergers, they would get tossed aside rather quickly.

Quite frankly DH has just as many wildcards.

It’s my opinion you guys are just too stuck on the zergs and always have been. You need to embrace the smaller / solo aspect more.

1 guy alone flipping camps and being annoying can make a HUGE impact on the map.

I don’t know how many times during our tower takes and so on – I took a camp in that bl only to cause you to send your mini zerg to try and take it back because I know you will as to split up your force.

It’s not always necessary to send 5-10 people to take 1 camp back especially when we are sieging you.

Things like that are what you need to work on imo.

So all that was you trying to feel important because you solo cap camps?
If we care enough to send people take it back right away, you’re more than likely helping us by giving us a free RI where we know we wont be attacked from, giving us time to check everything else. If people go to the camp while being sieged, we either have a big group nearby or its simply impossible to defend so people move away.

Why get so angry/annoyed.?

This has nothing to do with “me feeling important” This has everything to do with SF’s zerg only mentality and that is the primary reason you are loosing.

My point was and is, the “screw the small groups/roamers, basically anyone that doesn’t wanna ball up and play scoreboard/ppt” mentality is the reason why SF will not/does not get many transfers.

There are servers with Very High pops that even in bronze and silver get transfers. But on SF you have this mentality that gets published on these forums like: “our way or the highway”.

At the end of the day I only brought it up because you are more likely to get small guilds transfer down from higher tiers than you are to get 1 big oceanic guild. But when you say things like “we are getting rid of the solo people” it makes people think that all you do is zerg and to be on SF you have to zerg, etc.

Which is a bad way to entice people.

ptitminou.6489:

Azreell.1568:

Avatar of Belle.9623:

Star’s ball is very good. BS had multiple skirmishes last night and we had difficulty killing any Star unless we separated them from their ball. The SF pugs tagging along were easy lootbags though.

SF’s strength was never in smaller battles/skirmishes.

Their mentality is very zerg based and they fight accordingly

Unless they greatly outnumber their opponent – they really aren’t even a thought anymore.

StaR rarely has more than 20 players on at a time and they rarely trigger orange swords. However, if you fight them 5v5 you will probably win because they are using team builds, they aren’t trying to be solo heroes. We’re losing the solo heroes slowly but surely on SF, which is a great thing, we just need to fix our biggest problem now (coverage) so people can truly see the progress that has been done.

So you actually want to lose decent players and replace them for 1 spamming ones ?
Yes we’ve ran across a StaR group of ~5 till 10 this week and they’re completely awful. They literally just try to train stuff and … die, unless the odds are something like 4:1 for them.

bob.8632:

My point was and is, the “screw the small groups/roamers, basically anyone that doesn’t wanna ball up and play scoreboard/ppt” mentality is the reason why SF will not/does not get many transfers.

There are servers with Very High pops that even in bronze and silver get transfers. But on SF you have this mentality that gets published on these forums like: “our way or the highway”.

At the end of the day I only brought it up because you are more likely to get small guilds transfer down from higher tiers than you are to get 1 big oceanic guild. But when you say things like “we are getting rid of the solo people” it makes people think that all you do is zerg and to be on SF you have to zerg, etc.

Which is a bad way to entice people.

Exactly.

Gman.3789:

Assassin X.8573:

yesterday was my day off and i enjoyed the battles for bay in dh bl at the beginning of SF prime time. i havent gotten to face the true prime time force SF has this week. but i have gotten to battle with star and cosa at odd times. both star and cosa are formidable, star a little more so, but i guess that can be expected with the turmoil in cosa.

I was on from 7pm PST onward and every group we faced on DH BL outside of your keep literally melted or just simply ran away. Was fun holding bay all night and good job holding garri…I think you guys had to be pushing the siege deployment limit there!

Booo! Poor sportsmanship! Please remember any zerg you faced last night from DH were made up of entirely PUGS. Our commanders do AMAZING work for what they are given and we held our own with the players that could be rallied. This would be like the Buckeyes bragging they beat a local highschool football team. Either way, we really enjoyed ourselves.

I’m extremely impressed with DH (biased). With very few exceptions, DH has been very encouraging and optimistic throughout this season regardless of our wins or losses. Everyone has been extremely forgiving and patient with the influx of new players and new commanders. I feel like this season has really helped our player base develop a better sense of server pride. DH may get second place in this season, but they got first place in my heart! <3 DH!

quote]

Why get so angry/annoyed.?

This has nothing to do with “me feeling important” This has everything to do with SF’s zerg only mentality and that is the primary reason you are loosing.

[/quote]

Truthfully, this may be a small element of the composite of what has SF (in second this week).. not losing. A big part of this is what seems to be a focused effort by the two servers we are playing. It is hard to play against two servers that are on their “A” game and focused on a single objective.

I do not see the anger you see. Merely the reality of the fact that we won 3rd place in the bronze league. We will learn to be better yet IMHO.

bob.8632:

ptitminou.6489:

they aren’t trying to be solo heroes. We’re losing the solo heroes slowly but surely on SF, which is a great thing, we just need to fix our biggest problem now (coverage) so people can truly see the progress that has been done.

Perception isn’t reality. SF has always zerged people, but each week there are actually more small role players (your: solo heroes).

You have to remember balling up in a tanky support build is much easier than stepping out in a small group and getting things done.

You need both to be successful, stop trying to model your server after Tier 1 and instead model it after the more successful Upper Bronze/Lower Silver servers and you might have something.

Trying to get everyone to run PVT/clerics/etc and spam 1 will only make them resent the playstyle. The main thing I personally think SF needs is to use the existing guilds more effectively. You have more players than HoD, but for whatever reason you aren’t getting them into WvW or if you are they aren’t being used (coordinated) effectively.

Pardon my cynicism, but I keep seeing people say they know how to fix SF yet we have tried all of those options and nothing has worked. HoD did it, Yak’s Bend did it, Kaineng did it when they were hot stuff, etc. What works for one server doesn’t necessarily work for another. I can’t help but feel that we have tried to appeal to other guilds on the server, but it’s just that nobody on the server is interested in WvW. We are simply going with what we have found to work throughout the season and while it isn’t the most effective use of people, it still gets the job done.

I kind of wish we had smaller groups of CoSA running around hitting yaks and taking camps, I think that would help us out more than everyone holing up on SF BL but that’s just me. As much as I like soloing camps, I can’t do it all on my own some days.

bob.8632:

My point was and is, the “screw the small groups/roamers, basically anyone that doesn’t wanna ball up and play scoreboard/ppt” mentality is the reason why SF will not/does not get many transfers.

There are servers with Very High pops that even in bronze and silver get transfers. But on SF you have this mentality that gets published on these forums like: “our way or the highway”.

At the end of the day I only brought it up because you are more likely to get small guilds transfer down from higher tiers than you are to get 1 big oceanic guild. But when you say things like “we are getting rid of the solo people” it makes people think that all you do is zerg and to be on SF you have to zerg, etc.

Which is a bad way to entice people.

Well if we had somethign other than an 1800 gem cost for transfer, which is the same as the #1 rank, perhaps it would be different. 22$ per player to go play on a bronze tier server with a lack of coverage simply makes it a bad investment, especially when looking at the others with the same price. Its pointless to try and attract the solo player when we’re trying to build competent teams. I would rather fail then get a ton of people that just tell us to kitten off like the pugs do atm. When I want to play solo, I go here: http://www.lichess.org – you know, a game that is meant to be played solo…

ptitminou.6489:

bob.8632:

My point was and is, the “screw the small groups/roamers, basically anyone that doesn’t wanna ball up and play scoreboard/ppt” mentality is the reason why SF will not/does not get many transfers.

There are servers with Very High pops that even in bronze and silver get transfers. But on SF you have this mentality that gets published on these forums like: “our way or the highway”.

At the end of the day I only brought it up because you are more likely to get small guilds transfer down from higher tiers than you are to get 1 big oceanic guild. But when you say things like “we are getting rid of the solo people” it makes people think that all you do is zerg and to be on SF you have to zerg, etc.

Which is a bad way to entice people.

Well if we had somethign other than an 1800 gem cost for transfer, which is the same as the #1 rank, perhaps it would be different. 22$ per player to go play on a bronze tier server with a lack of coverage simply makes it a bad investment, especially when looking at the others with the same price. Its pointless to try and attract the solo player when we’re trying to build competent teams. I would rather fail then get a ton of people that just tell us to kitten off like the pugs do atm. When I want to play solo, I go here: http://www.lichess.org – you know, a game that is meant to be played solo…

Your statement is exactly SF’s problem.

Not everyone wants to join the zerg nor is the zerg only tactic a viable way to win as this season has proven to you.

WvW is won by zergs, smaller teams and solo roamers.

You need them all to win – not just one.

Azreell.1568:

ptitminou.6489:

bob.8632:

My point was and is, the “screw the small groups/roamers, basically anyone that doesn’t wanna ball up and play scoreboard/ppt” mentality is the reason why SF will not/does not get many transfers.

There are servers with Very High pops that even in bronze and silver get transfers. But on SF you have this mentality that gets published on these forums like: “our way or the highway”.

At the end of the day I only brought it up because you are more likely to get small guilds transfer down from higher tiers than you are to get 1 big oceanic guild. But when you say things like “we are getting rid of the solo people” it makes people think that all you do is zerg and to be on SF you have to zerg, etc.

Which is a bad way to entice people.

Well if we had somethign other than an 1800 gem cost for transfer, which is the same as the #1 rank, perhaps it would be different. 22$ per player to go play on a bronze tier server with a lack of coverage simply makes it a bad investment, especially when looking at the others with the same price. Its pointless to try and attract the solo player when we’re trying to build competent teams. I would rather fail then get a ton of people that just tell us to kitten off like the pugs do atm. When I want to play solo, I go here: http://www.lichess.org – you know, a game that is meant to be played solo…

Your statement is exactly SF’s problem.

Not everyone wants to join the zerg nor is the zerg only tactic a viable way to win as this season has proven to you.

WvW is won by zergs, smaller teams and solo roamers.

You need them all to win – not just one.

Solo roamers help the other team win.

Also, in Bronze, we don’t really have any zergs, 30-man groups are pretty much tops. Highest I saw was 42 and it was because 3 groups merged for an all out attack on a garrison. Usually we have groups running around unable to pop orange swords. At least small teams can take towers so they arent useless. Solo roamers only queue maps and it worse for everyone, except the other teams.

Azreell.1568:

ptitminou.6489:

bob.8632:

My point was and is, the “screw the small groups/roamers, basically anyone that doesn’t wanna ball up and play scoreboard/ppt” mentality is the reason why SF will not/does not get many transfers.

There are servers with Very High pops that even in bronze and silver get transfers. But on SF you have this mentality that gets published on these forums like: “our way or the highway”.

At the end of the day I only brought it up because you are more likely to get small guilds transfer down from higher tiers than you are to get 1 big oceanic guild. But when you say things like “we are getting rid of the solo people” it makes people think that all you do is zerg and to be on SF you have to zerg, etc.

Which is a bad way to entice people.

Well if we had somethign other than an 1800 gem cost for transfer, which is the same as the #1 rank, perhaps it would be different. 22$ per player to go play on a bronze tier server with a lack of coverage simply makes it a bad investment, especially when looking at the others with the same price. Its pointless to try and attract the solo player when we’re trying to build competent teams. I would rather fail then get a ton of people that just tell us to kitten off like the pugs do atm. When I want to play solo, I go here: http://www.lichess.org – you know, a game that is meant to be played solo…

Your statement is exactly SF’s problem.

Not everyone wants to join the zerg nor is the zerg only tactic a viable way to win as this season has proven to you.

WvW is won by zergs, smaller teams and solo roamers.

You need them all to win – not just one.

Your tunnel-visioned grasp on our problem being zerg has clouded your ability to see what the previous writer has said. There are merits to his mention at the prospects of transfers to our server being limited due to the cost. Why transfer to a bronze server when the cost to transfer to a silver or gold with better time coverage is the same. Therein is the nugget of truth that is worth the mention.

Small groups do have a place and I like to run solo camp captures as well but that is a minor element in our problem. It is not the single most damaging factor as you would have us believe. Lets look at a larger slice of the pie.

Calm down guys, don’t go getting another thread locked. Please and thank you.

Gem cost doesn’t stop people from transferring. But it does make them think twice about doing it hastily.

Obviously not everyone on SF thinks one way (IE: zergball, huge zergs, etc), but my point was, is, and always will be that being unappealing (IE: trashing, discouraging, berating, belittling) small man guilds/groups/roamers will only:

A. Reduce your numbers, because whether you realize it or not you have a lot of them working behind the 60 man zergs.

B. Will make the people that would at least consider transferring (people transfer every day for 1800 gems) turned off because of this “our way or the highway mentality” that gets put out on these forums.

Again, I am just saying if you want people to come to SF the vibe should be: Come here, get along, no drama, play your way, help us out when in a map.

rcelbrechter.8947:

Azreell.1568:

ptitminou.6489:

bob.8632:

My point was and is, the “screw the small groups/roamers, basically anyone that doesn’t wanna ball up and play scoreboard/ppt” mentality is the reason why SF will not/does not get many transfers.

There are servers with Very High pops that even in bronze and silver get transfers. But on SF you have this mentality that gets published on these forums like: “our way or the highway”.

At the end of the day I only brought it up because you are more likely to get small guilds transfer down from higher tiers than you are to get 1 big oceanic guild. But when you say things like “we are getting rid of the solo people” it makes people think that all you do is zerg and to be on SF you have to zerg, etc.

Which is a bad way to entice people.

Well if we had somethign other than an 1800 gem cost for transfer, which is the same as the #1 rank, perhaps it would be different. 22$ per player to go play on a bronze tier server with a lack of coverage simply makes it a bad investment, especially when looking at the others with the same price. Its pointless to try and attract the solo player when we’re trying to build competent teams. I would rather fail then get a ton of people that just tell us to kitten off like the pugs do atm. When I want to play solo, I go here: http://www.lichess.org – you know, a game that is meant to be played solo…

Your statement is exactly SF’s problem.

Not everyone wants to join the zerg nor is the zerg only tactic a viable way to win as this season has proven to you.

WvW is won by zergs, smaller teams and solo roamers.

You need them all to win – not just one.

Your tunnel-visioned grasp on our problem being zerg has clouded your ability to see what the previous writer has said. There are merits to his mention at the prospects of transfers to our server being limited due to the cost. Why transfer to a bronze server when the cost to transfer to a silver or gold with better time coverage is the same. Therein is the nugget of truth that is worth the mention.

Small groups do have a place and I like to run solo camp captures as well but that is a minor element in our problem. It is not the single most damaging factor as you would have us believe. Lets look at a larger slice of the pie.

I hope its pecan pie!

ptitminou.6489:

Azreell.1568:

ptitminou.6489:

bob.8632:

My point was and is, the “screw the small groups/roamers, basically anyone that doesn’t wanna ball up and play scoreboard/ppt” mentality is the reason why SF will not/does not get many transfers.

There are servers with Very High pops that even in bronze and silver get transfers. But on SF you have this mentality that gets published on these forums like: “our way or the highway”.

At the end of the day I only brought it up because you are more likely to get small guilds transfer down from higher tiers than you are to get 1 big oceanic guild. But when you say things like “we are getting rid of the solo people” it makes people think that all you do is zerg and to be on SF you have to zerg, etc.

Which is a bad way to entice people.

Well if we had somethign other than an 1800 gem cost for transfer, which is the same as the #1 rank, perhaps it would be different. 22$ per player to go play on a bronze tier server with a lack of coverage simply makes it a bad investment, especially when looking at the others with the same price. Its pointless to try and attract the solo player when we’re trying to build competent teams. I would rather fail then get a ton of people that just tell us to kitten off like the pugs do atm. When I want to play solo, I go here: http://www.lichess.org – you know, a game that is meant to be played solo…

Your statement is exactly SF’s problem.

Not everyone wants to join the zerg nor is the zerg only tactic a viable way to win as this season has proven to you.

WvW is won by zergs, smaller teams and solo roamers.

You need them all to win – not just one.

Solo roamers help the other team win.

Also, in Bronze, we don’t really have any zergs, 30-man groups are pretty much tops. Highest I saw was 42 and it was because 3 groups merged for an all out attack on a garrison. Usually we have groups running around unable to pop orange swords. At least small teams can take towers so they arent useless. Solo roamers only queue maps and it worse for everyone, except the other teams.

Solo roamers are vital to us on DH, they make sure all our siege is refreshed, help take and defend camps, walk yaks, take ruins, and scout. Its not all about the havoc squads and zergs, without our solo roamers doing those things we wouldn’t be having nearly as much success.

groc.7945:

Gman.3789:

Assassin X.8573:

yesterday was my day off and i enjoyed the battles for bay in dh bl at the beginning of SF prime time. i havent gotten to face the true prime time force SF has this week. but i have gotten to battle with star and cosa at odd times. both star and cosa are formidable, star a little more so, but i guess that can be expected with the turmoil in cosa.

I was on from 7pm PST onward and every group we faced on DH BL outside of your keep literally melted or just simply ran away. Was fun holding bay all night and good job holding garri…I think you guys had to be pushing the siege deployment limit there!

Booo! Poor sportsmanship! Please remember any zerg you faced last night from DH were made up of entirely PUGS. Our commanders do AMAZING work for what they are given and we held our own with the players that could be rallied. This would be like the Buckeyes bragging they beat a local highschool football team. Either way, we really enjoyed ourselves.

I’m extremely impressed with DH (biased). With very few exceptions, DH has been very encouraging and optimistic throughout this season regardless of our wins or losses. Everyone has been extremely forgiving and patient with the influx of new players and new commanders. I feel like this season has really helped our player base develop a better sense of server pride. DH may get second place in this season, but they got first place in my heart! <3 DH!

Not sure he was trying to be a poor sport. Our small group did get our kitten handed to us on several attempts. But our commanders did well to keep up what pressure we could until a few more showed up. I personally had a blast and enjoyed the fights. I’ve only been playing for a couple months, but have been extremely impressed with the leadership and patience DH has shown. Here’s to an even more successful next season!!

Assassin X.8573:

I hope its pecan pie!

Nope, it better be blueberry. Fruit pies > Nut pies :p.

But yeah, Zen and the other commanders were great last night. (it was just last night that SF took bay/hills, correct?) We are pretty pretty stubborn though. How many tries did we go after the SE tower? Our pugs do tend to be skittish (probably not the right word). Some of our pushes might have been successful last night if 1/3-1/2 of them didn’t follow/keep up with the ‘zerg’. (I can’t really complain, I’m a pug. I don’t belong to any guild. I do tend to stick with certain commanders though. Zen, Mistress Zephy, and others).

rcelbrechter.8947:

From my perspective the difference this week has been the efforts of ET. This is not to discount the fantastic coordination, turnout, and effort of DH. Truly this win is yours and is one to be celebrated. I wish I had a screen shot of the end of Monday evening to back this up so take this with the grain of salt I know it will.

Monday on EB I saw our squad fight off Zergs alternating from the DH side and then the ET side. We would stop the threat, and minorly take back a few of the losses before the zerg from the other side would come sweeping down. After a few hours of this action it seemingly becomes obvious. The pressure asserted by ET certainly prevented our ability to focus our attention of whom we consider the the point leader. Monday also closed with ET pushing SF totally off of EB. A review of the map at that stage saw the SF borderlands riddled with color while the ET borderland was mostly untouched. With this kind of effort by ET why are they still behind in the point count. I leave this to speculation. I will say that one snapshot moment in time does not represent the whole.

rcelbrechter.8947:

Truthfully, this may be a small element of the composite of what has SF (in second this week).. not losing. A big part of this is what seems to be a focused effort by the two servers we are playing. It is hard to play against two servers that are on their “A” game and focused on a single objective.

I do not see the anger you see. Merely the reality of the fact that we won 3rd place in the bronze league. We will learn to be better yet IMHO.

I beg your pardon sir, but are you saying that SF is losing for ET’s fault?

If you are rellying on the 3rd server to win, you’re doing it wrong…

To all the people saying that SF is against roaming and other nonsense i have to disagree. I’ve never seen any guild or commander on sf complain about people roaming or not being on the pin. If they do any complaining they do it behind closed doors because they certainly dont do it in the bl. The vibe SF should have according bob as he posted above is exactly how the vibe on SF is right now, theres never any drama and most people get along or just ignore the trolls which every server has. Most importantly the guilds and commanders never try and force people to zerg as some of you claim. Obviously there are some trolls like the few who keep posting nonsense in this thread (solo roamers help the other team win lol) but judging an entire community on 1 or 2 people is just stupid and doesnt give you an idea of how the community as a whole acts which some of you seem to think it does.Unless you play on SF you really have no idea of how the community acts outside of the few people who post on the forums which you seem to just pick the worst of and base opinions off them.

TLDR: Sf doesnt JUST zerg and they arent anti solo roamer. Dont judge an entire awesome community on a few idiots which every server has.

I havent really been playing much this match, but I am a little surprised at the difference in perspectives among our servers.

SF is saying that before this match, they were expecting to lose. On DH, a lot of the people I talked with said that it was going to be a very, very close match due to the sheer volume of SF wvw participants. I dont know of anyone that felt it was going to be a match like its turning out to be (just according to the millenium site).

It seems the match with HoD made a lot of the fairweathers give up on SF, and I think that is the demoralizing aspect that others have been talking about. I know that many say “good riddance,” but even fair weather numbers still contribute!

DH did make some basic changes though, and that helps too. But, DH has a LOOOOOONG way to go as far as improvements are concerned. We basically just learned how to actually work together instead of fighting with ourselves and the other servers at the same time. We are starting to practice the very basics of teamwork, and its showing.

I think you will see some of DH settle into that as “mission accomplished,” with no further improvement outside of those aspects. While that isnt exactly “good” for DH, it will mean the disparity between servers in these rankings wont grow too much and it should be easy for servers like SF to catch up by improving on whatever aspects they are struggling with.

Which, in the end, just means great matches for the future!

Adaxia.5406:

Solo roamers are vital to us on DH, they make sure all our siege is refreshed, help take and defend camps, walk yaks, take ruins, and scout. Its not all about the havoc squads and zergs, without our solo roamers doing those things we wouldn’t be having nearly as much success.

100% agree with this. Solo roamers do this stuff on SF too (and more!). And despite what you’re seeing in this particular match-up there, there actually are many here who recognize their hard work and appreciate everything they do for our server.

Tuluum.9638:

I havent really been playing much this match, but I am a little surprised at the difference in perspectives among our servers.

SF is saying that before this match, they were expecting to lose. On DH, a lot of the people I talked with said that it was going to be a very, very close match due to the sheer volume of SF wvw participants. I dont know of anyone that felt it was going to be a match like its turning out to be (just according to the millenium site).

It seems the match with HoD made a lot of the fairweathers give up on SF, and I think that is the demoralizing aspect that others have been talking about. I know that many say “good riddance,” but even fair weather numbers still contribute!

DH did make some basic changes though, and that helps too. But, DH has a LOOOOOONG way to go as far as improvements are concerned. We basically just learned how to actually work together instead of fighting with ourselves and the other servers at the same time. We are starting to practice the very basics of teamwork, and its showing.

I think you will see some of DH settle into that as “mission accomplished,” with no further improvement outside of those aspects. While that isnt exactly “good” for DH, it will mean the disparity between servers in these rankings wont grow too much and it should be easy for servers like SF to catch up by improving on whatever aspects they are struggling with.

Which, in the end, just means great matches for the future!

Finally, somebody sees it from our perspective rather than saying we’re not trying hard enough. Thank you.

I hear solo roamers sell out their servers commanders, troll camps, and throw random siege.

They also sometimes give away sentry points.

And, occasionally, they trade kills with the enemy behind a windmill.

Should ban them all from wvw.

Deaddawg.9418:

groc.7945:

Gman.3789:

…literally melted or just simply ran away.
…I think you guys had to be pushing the siege deployment limit there!

Booo! Poor sportsmanship! Please remember any zerg you faced last night from DH were made up of entirely PUGS. Our commanders do AMAZING work for what they are given and we held our own with the players that could be rallied. This would be like the Buckeyes bragging they beat a local highschool football team. Either way, we really enjoyed ourselves.

I’m extremely impressed with DH (biased). With very few exceptions, DH has been very encouraging and optimistic throughout this season regardless of our wins or losses. Everyone has been extremely forgiving and patient with the influx of new players and new commanders. I feel like this season has really helped our player base develop a better sense of server pride. DH may get second place in this season, but they got first place in my heart! <3 DH!

Not sure he was trying to be a poor sport. Our small group did get our kitten handed to us on several attempts. But our commanders did well to keep up what pressure we could until a few more showed up. I personally had a blast and enjoyed the fights. I’ve only been playing for a couple months, but have been extremely impressed with the leadership and patience DH has shown. Here’s to an even more successful next season!!

I disagree. Statements like that are demeaning and meant to be demoralizing. Again, they had organized guilds (and larger numbers) going against pugs. Bragging statements like that are nothing but a show of poor sportsmanship. My analogy still holds ground.

DH put up a formidable fight, while trying to to recapture it’s Bay. Many times that DH did meet SF outside both keeps, DH ended up pushing them back (not running away!) into the Bay. The times we really got wiped were while we attempted to recapture (at gates or Lord’s room). I admit that we got wiped and wiped often, but DH did amazingly well despite the odds that were against us and I believe gave them a run for their money. His comments reflect quite the opposite, as if we are all a bunch of helpless cowards who hide behind our ACs. That is far from the truth.

K U T M.4539:

I hear solo roamers sell out their servers commanders, troll camps, and throw random siege.

They also sometimes give away sentry points.

And, occasionally, they trade kills with the enemy behind a windmill.

Should ban them all from wvw.

If we roam in pair, will we be banned too?

Jeknar.6184:

K U T M.4539:

I hear solo roamers sell out their servers commanders, troll camps, and throw random siege.

They also sometimes give away sentry points.

And, occasionally, they trade kills with the enemy behind a windmill.

Should ban them all from wvw.

If we roam in pair, will we be banned too?

I do group roaming. I’m the slowest class though….will I get banned while the others run away? T_T

groc.7945:

Deaddawg.9418:

groc.7945:

Gman.3789:

…literally melted or just simply ran away.
…I think you guys had to be pushing the siege deployment limit there!

Booo! Poor sportsmanship! Please remember any zerg you faced last night from DH were made up of entirely PUGS. Our commanders do AMAZING work for what they are given and we held our own with the players that could be rallied. This would be like the Buckeyes bragging they beat a local highschool football team. Either way, we really enjoyed ourselves.

I’m extremely impressed with DH (biased). With very few exceptions, DH has been very encouraging and optimistic throughout this season regardless of our wins or losses. Everyone has been extremely forgiving and patient with the influx of new players and new commanders. I feel like this season has really helped our player base develop a better sense of server pride. DH may get second place in this season, but they got first place in my heart! <3 DH!

Not sure he was trying to be a poor sport. Our small group did get our kitten handed to us on several attempts. But our commanders did well to keep up what pressure we could until a few more showed up. I personally had a blast and enjoyed the fights. I’ve only been playing for a couple months, but have been extremely impressed with the leadership and patience DH has shown. Here’s to an even more successful next season!!

I disagree. Statements like that are demeaning and meant to be demoralizing. Again, they had organized guilds (and larger numbers) going against pugs. Bragging statements like that are nothing but a show of poor sportsmanship. My analogy still holds ground.

DH put up a formidable fight, while trying to to recapture it’s Bay. Many times that DH did meet SF outside both keeps, DH ended up pushing them back (not running away!) into the Bay. The times we really got wiped were while we attempted to recapture (at gates or Lord’s room). I admit that we got wiped and wiped often, but DH did amazingly well despite the odds that were against us and I believe gave them a run for their money. His comments reflect quite the opposite, as if we are all a bunch of helpless cowards who hide behind our ACs. That is far from the truth.

You’re doing a great job paraphrasing my sentiments. Keep it up, please!

@Madora;

I assume you are on SF?

In my experience, SF tends to have a ton of fair weathers, even in proportion to other servers in the same rankings. While a lot of wubbers consider this to be a detriment to their overall goal, I cant say I agree with that in totality.

Going against a server like HoD, as a fairweather, could only be demoralizing. And when it happens to a server at these levels, losing your fairweathers will mean the difference between a close match and a blow out. I actually understand why SF was approaching this match as one they had already lost, since SF players have more insight to their wvw health before going into a match.

The people that ARE on SF though, have definitely made improvements. I am of the mind that almost every server that isnt at the top/bottom of their league is putting a lot of effort in. I have seen improvements on almost every server since the beginning of leagues. DH was a bit slow to catch up due to various things, but it eventually happened. I actually think that the leagues were very good in this way (but not many others).

I could go into how I think SF, specifically, could improve. But, my interactions are not only from the outside, but only from the places on the battlefield that I interact. Pointing out specifics may even be a hindrance because those specifics may only be symptoms of the problem rather than the problem itself, depending on whatever is going on within the server.

I would say HoD is several iterations beyond the stage of development that DH is at. And even though they have vast room for improvement as well, fighting them is a stark task and is not a good environment for fairweathers. And I think most of the servers in this league depend quite strongly on fairweathers to fill up maps.

Either way though, there are many, many more matches to come and plenty of time for us all to work on our play. I hope that we can all keep each other on our toes enough that all of us have to constantly and consciously improve every match to have the chance at winning.

groc.7945:

Deaddawg.9418:

groc.7945:

Gman.3789:

…literally melted or just simply ran away.
…I think you guys had to be pushing the siege deployment limit there!

Booo! Poor sportsmanship! Please remember any zerg you faced last night from DH were made up of entirely PUGS. Our commanders do AMAZING work for what they are given and we held our own with the players that could be rallied. This would be like the Buckeyes bragging they beat a local highschool football team. Either way, we really enjoyed ourselves.

I’m extremely impressed with DH (biased). With very few exceptions, DH has been very encouraging and optimistic throughout this season regardless of our wins or losses. Everyone has been extremely forgiving and patient with the influx of new players and new commanders. I feel like this season has really helped our player base develop a better sense of server pride. DH may get second place in this season, but they got first place in my heart! <3 DH!

Not sure he was trying to be a poor sport. Our small group did get our kitten handed to us on several attempts. But our commanders did well to keep up what pressure we could until a few more showed up. I personally had a blast and enjoyed the fights. I’ve only been playing for a couple months, but have been extremely impressed with the leadership and patience DH has shown. Here’s to an even more successful next season!!

I disagree. Statements like that are demeaning and meant to be demoralizing. Again, they had organized guilds (and larger numbers) going against pugs. Bragging statements like that are nothing but a show of poor sportsmanship. My analogy still holds ground.

DH put up a formidable fight, while trying to to recapture it’s Bay. Many times that DH did meet SF outside both keeps, DH ended up pushing them back (not running away!) into the Bay. The times we really got wiped were while we attempted to recapture (at gates or Lord’s room). I admit that we got wiped and wiped often, but DH did amazingly well despite the odds that were against us and I believe gave them a run for their money. His comments reflect quite the opposite, as if we are all a bunch of helpless cowards who hide behind our ACs. That is far from the truth.

Perhaps you are correct….maybe he’ll repost to clarify his intent . It’s possible that I too often look for the good as opposed to the negative; but, that allows me to enjoy the game rather than be fated to a spiteful mentality. Regardless, I agree we did well to keep them busy. Not once did we run from a fight in Bay despite the numbers. Kudos to the DHers that stuck through it last night and those that will do it again tonight.

Jeknar.6184:

rcelbrechter.8947:

From my perspective the difference this week has been the efforts of ET. This is not to discount the fantastic coordination, turnout, and effort of DH. Truly this win is yours and is one to be celebrated. I wish I had a screen shot of the end of Monday evening to back this up so take this with the grain of salt I know it will.

Monday on EB I saw our squad fight off Zergs alternating from the DH side and then the ET side. We would stop the threat, and minorly take back a few of the losses before the zerg from the other side would come sweeping down. After a few hours of this action it seemingly becomes obvious. The pressure asserted by ET certainly prevented our ability to focus our attention of whom we consider the the point leader. Monday also closed with ET pushing SF totally off of EB. A review of the map at that stage saw the SF borderlands riddled with color while the ET borderland was mostly untouched. With this kind of effort by ET why are they still behind in the point count. I leave this to speculation. I will say that one snapshot moment in time does not represent the whole.

rcelbrechter.8947:

Truthfully, this may be a small element of the composite of what has SF (in second this week).. not losing. A big part of this is what seems to be a focused effort by the two servers we are playing. It is hard to play against two servers that are on their “A” game and focused on a single objective.

I do not see the anger you see. Merely the reality of the fact that we won 3rd place in the bronze league. We will learn to be better yet IMHO.

I beg your pardon sir, but are you saying that SF is losing for ET’s fault?

If you are rellying on the 3rd server to win, you’re doing it wrong…

With all due respect Jekar, please do review what I wrote. It was a compliment on the efforts of ET, and no disrespect to the hard work put forth by DH. Rather a combination of these two elements. In the end both servers felt that SF was the greater threat and we became the focus.

Even if we drop the 30K+ points and lose this one match, game over. We win 3rd place in the league and no server can take that away. That is all that is being said.

Sorrows Furnace has nothing to be ashamed of. Season well played.

ptitminou.6489:

Arius.7031:

Dreadforce.6980:

Why do you ANBU guys seem so angry? In a few more days no of this will matter the people who fought each week should be proud and I hope they are having fun. When people get the rewards most pve players who started playing will be happy and stay and get better or feel it was a waste and never come back.

All servers say the same thing they win its all skill they lose its insert reason here.

What gives you the impression we’re angry lol? I’m really disappointed in SF for being pretty sore losers, and that’s really annoying considering the amount of effort we put into this. If that annoyance comes across as anger, sorry.

I don’t see why you think there are sore losers. We only accept our fate as it is. If it were something new for us, then maybe we’d be a bit mad, but the truth is, most of us fully expected to lose this one.

We failed on the recruitment side and versus night cappers, we are at the mercy of the third server slowing them down, it has nothing to do with WvW when we dont even have enough WvW players 75% of the time.

If accepting our fate comes off as being “sore losers” then so be it. It’s not like I dislike DH since the hackers left, I even keep telling Anet to merge our servers! It should really come off as being desperate for coverage more than anything else; we are.

Sorry, I don’t count blaming black friday as accepting your fate (an exaggeration, but you get the picture). Tons of excuses flew all over that previous thread. I’m sorry but you guys showed up in force on reset night (maybe not at max but pretty close, you definitely had 2 queues, probably had 3, and almost had 4) and we beat you. That means there is no excuse to be made for why you’re losing, only excuses to be made for why you’re losing so bad. We beat you on your prime time when you have pretty strong participation.

So making excuses like “we have sucky coverage” won’t cut it, they’re just excuses to avoid stating the fact that we beat you at your game. If you don’t see many of these posts kitten being sore losers, that’s fine. I’m not trying to convict you/be rude. I’m really just stating my opinion since I’m responding to a guy who called my guild out.

Gman.3789:

You’re doing a great job paraphrasing my sentiments. Keep it up, please!

Feel free to enlighten or correct me. What did you mean by your statement?

ptitminou.6489:

Solo roamers help the other team win.

Solo roamers only queue maps and it worse for everyone, except the other teams.

Not sure if delusional or trolling. If you wanted proof, Last week when you played ET they gained 51,183 points from stomps and sentries. 31% of their score. Every yak, kill, and sentry is worth more than a “queue spot” (lulz).

So I take it you don’t accept scout information, supply denial, and overall havoc/misdirection from your own server’s roamers then, preferring your blob to have 51 people instead of 50. GG.

Arius.7031:

I’m sorry but you guys showed up in force on reset night (maybe not at max but pretty close, you definitely had 2 queues, probably had 3, and almost had 4) and we beat you.

I’d really like to know where these massive queues were on reset. I certainly didn’t see them. Only queue I encountered was on our home BL with a whopping wait time time of 2 minutes. And there were at least several folks commenting on mumble how participation on reset was pretty light and how they were amazed they were able to get into our home BL on reset night.

As for the rest of your post, what you saw in the other thread was a bunch of disappointed people trying to rationalize the hows and whys our server lost momentum. Some of the points that were brought up may have been a little silly. But many were legitimate issues that compounded our already declining momentum proceeding this match and they aren’t excuses. We are most definitely not nearly as strong as we were earlier in the season and folks are just throwing out ideas/theories on how and why.

SF folks trying to rationalize why our server lost momentum and why we’re weaker now in no way means DH didn’t beat us fair and square. The score tells the story.

Deaddawg.9418:

Perhaps you are correct….maybe he’ll repost to clarify his intent . It’s possible that I too often look for the good as opposed to the negative; but, that allows me to enjoy the game rather than be fated to a spiteful mentality. Regardless, I agree we did well to keep them busy. Not once did we run from a fight in Bay despite the numbers. Kudos to the DHers that stuck through it last night and those that will do it again tonight.

No, perhaps you are correct. I felt the need to defend DH because I saw a great effort last night by a lot of players and hate to see that diminished. I’ve had a blast this season and met some great people along the way (even opposing players). See you out there!

Manoa.5897:

Arius.7031:

I’m sorry but you guys showed up in force on reset night (maybe not at max but pretty close, you definitely had 2 queues, probably had 3, and almost had 4) and we beat you.

I’d really like to know where these massive queues were on reset. I certainly didn’t see them. Only queue I encountered was on our home BL with a whopping wait time time of 2 minutes. And there were at least several folks commenting on mumble how participation on reset was pretty light and how they were amazed they were able to get into our home BL on reset night.

As for the rest of your post, what you saw in the other thread was a bunch of disappointed people trying to rationalize the hows and whys our server lost momentum. Some of the points that were brought up may have been a little silly. But many were legitimate issues that compounded our already declining momentum proceeding this match and they aren’t excuses. We are most definitely not nearly as strong as we were earlier in the season and folks are just throwing out ideas/theories on how and why.

SF folks trying to rationalize why our server lost momentum and why we’re weaker now in no way means DH didn’t beat us fair and square. The score tells the story.

Well in the previous thread someone flat out said SF had two queues, and I fought your zerg in Dh bl multiple times (wiped them at garry, wiped them once at hills, got wiped a few times), that was close to a queue zerg (though perhaps not a queue zerg, can’t say for sure).

Not following the bickering above (although personal PVP is the best PVP).

But I just wanted to say I’ve thoroughly enjoyed going up against some of STAR guild’s attacks. Win some, lose some – but either way, the 25 minute fights for a few feet of land has been hella fun.

K U T M.4539:

neiliam.8614:

Met 2 Eredon Terrace Scout Rangers using speedhack in Sorrow’s Furnace Borderlands. Guild tag [Rtw]

Ranger’s are fast.

Yes they are, however, they should also not be zooming past me in an irregular blinking fashion while I’m running next to them with +50% movement speed in stealth. I was scouting their movement patterns and watched them take camps similarly. I’ve seen it before and I’m not oblivious to that behavior.

Arius.7031:

Well in the previous thread someone flat out said SF had two queues, and I fought your zerg in Dh bl multiple times (wiped them at garry, wiped them once at hills, got wiped a few times), that was close to a queue zerg (though perhaps not a queue zerg, can’t say for sure).

I’ll buy that we had two queues. Any claims above two I’ll question.

If and when we’re pulling a queue, most instances we’re only at most pulling 2 queues at a time…EB (aka PUG paradise) and whatever borderland the main force is focusing on. I didn’t attempt EB on reset, so I can’t say whether it was actually queued (but odds are it was). SF-BL was on and off queue that night. And when our BL did pull a queue, it was a pretty short wait time (I was shocked that I didn’t have to wait a half hour to an hour to get into our home BL). As far as the other two BLs, I bounced between the two quickly before I entered the SF-BL queue and had no issues getting into either.

IIRC (my memory is hazy), our main force moved from our SF-BL to DH-BL later in the evening. So there’s a chance that DH-BL may have been queued on reset too (I got in easily because i moved with the main force, but may have popped over to queue after I got in). However, that only moved the queue from one BL to another. It certainly didn’t create a third queue.

Typically, any claims that SF is able to pull more than two queues (with exception to the Season 1 kick-off) is an exaggeration.

neiliam.8614:

K U T M.4539:

neiliam.8614:

Met 2 Eredon Terrace Scout Rangers using speedhack in Sorrow’s Furnace Borderlands. Guild tag [Rtw]

Ranger’s are fast.

Yes they are, however, they should also not be zooming past me in an irregular blinking fashion while I’m running next to them with +50% movement speed in stealth. I was scouting their movement patterns and watched them take camps similarly. I’ve seen it before and I’m not oblivious to that behavior.

Just record it, report it to exploits@arena.net and move on. No point in discussing it here (plus, mods don’t like that kind of talk).

Manoa.5897:

Typically, any claims that SF is able to pull more than two queues (with exception to the Season 1 kick-off) is an exaggeration.

So you guys showed up in normal force then? IDK, it seemed to me you guys had 3 queues by the fight you were putting up, but I could have been mistaken. The point is that you guys showed up for reset night. Perhaps you were diminished somewhat, granted, but I think it’s fair to say on that night at least we fought an SF that showed up and we won. That’s my only point, and it’s not to brag but instead to counter the excuses (or rationalizations as you call them). If you guys showed up with 2 queues (as is normal for you, apparently), then we fought the normal SF (even if slightly diminished).

Still amazed every time I hear someone say [BS] is a good small-man guild. I’ve never had a challenge against them at even numbers. Maybe I’ve only ever found their newbies, but whatever. And then today, when 3-4* of them kited two of us back to their spawn over and over…. a little disappointing, honestly.

*not sure if that [QQ] fool is part of your group

You did face BS’s new members, Both ele’s were lol. As for even numbers we were zerg’d multiple times by you guys. Only time it was fair was when we were 4v5ing you in front of spawn then you ran all the way back to tower to get out of combat and i dc’d shortly after :<

Btw, nice meta builds, should learn how to use them though.

losieight.4807:

Btw, nice meta builds, should learn how to use them though.

Good thing you can’t tell when someone is running a meta build and when they’re not.

Arius.7031:

Manoa.5897:

Typically, any claims that SF is able to pull more than two queues (with exception to the Season 1 kick-off) is an exaggeration.

So you guys showed up in normal force then? IDK, it seemed to me you guys had 3 queues by the fight you were putting up, but I could have been mistaken. The point is that you guys showed up for reset night. Perhaps you were diminished somewhat, granted, but I think it’s fair to say on that night at least we fought an SF that showed up and we won. That’s my only point, and it’s not to brag but instead to counter the excuses (or rationalizations as you call them). If you guys showed up with 2 queues (as is normal for you, apparently), then we fought the normal SF (even if slightly diminished).

You are mistaken

Ouch, didn’t know Hammer / Greatsword wasn’t what everyone is running.

losieight.4807:

Ouch, didn’t know Hammer / Greatsword wasn’t what everyone is running.

So your weaponset makes it meta? I learn something new every day. Jee, and here I thought it was the build that made it meta.

Both of my characters use builds created by me. If you ask nice, I might share. And if you’d prefer, I can bring my mesmer next time, though you should be careful wishing for that.

To clarify, I only posted because self-respecting small-man guilds should not kite to spawn unless they’re significantly outnumbered. It’s silly.