Guild Wars 2

Just curious how many others would be interested in having the maps topography changed to something a bit more challenging.

For myself I would love to see the BL’s be different and unique rather than repeats of themselves. I know some would complain that this BL is easier than another, but it would help make the wvw in those zones more dynamic. I would love to see topography that allows for terrain challenges for wvw.

For example I would love to see one BL as a rolling hills with heavy forest (enough to block out name tags in some area’s) so that folks could use the woods as a means to hide zergs moving through them. Something like the Redwood forest would be really cool, with tree forts and rope bridges between some structures.

Another example would be a BL with mountains and canyons with bridges crossing between area’s (think Tibet for example). And tunnels through the mountains, with mountain fortresses and underground area’s to fight in.

Another example would be a BL for water fights (I love them, though I know some would disagree with me on that viewpoint). I seriously miss the water fights in and around quaggen island in the BL’s. This BL could be a series of islands with a few bridges, and underwater cave entrances to allow for marine tactical fights.

Anyway.. these are just a few idea’s, and I just curious if others have idea’s for alternate topography for WVWing in. Please post idea’s if you have them, or reasons why you would be interested in the same boring topography we have today if not. Thanks for everyone input in advance.

I like your ideas.

Would love to see new maps. Devon raised the question of different terrain in a thread a month or two ago.

I think new maps would add some spice.. for a few weeks. Maybe even a month or two.

And then, if human nature and past experience in other games is anything to go by, most of the players would then head to the maps that are basically gently rolling hills and contain large flat plains where it’s easier to have open clashes of large zergs. (See: DAoC and Emain “The Golf Course”.)

Yeah.. I played DAOC for many years. Still consider it one of the best games out there for large scale open world PVP. It’s terrain allowed for different tactics depending on which zone one was fighting in.

The problem with unique BLs is that one side will inevitably be advantaged somehow. Having 3 of the same means that any advantage is shared equally, since your server starts in each position on one map.

Honestly … who really cares if one side has an advantage if the fights are boring as hell?

I don’t care about some stupid ranking system…. I want fun tactical fights. For me thats the bottom line.

wvw isn’t really the essence of fair in the first place, imo. I don’t think it’d be much of a difference (EBG, bloodlust, number advantages, etc.)

personally, i’d like to see the same map for each bl, but have it change out each season. or perhaps have a voting thing on what people would like to see.

What about having several maps with different themes that would change on reset? Nothing based on server’s performance, just a random selection.

Personally I wouldn’t play on a full water fight based map but having a part of map, maybe a tower/sup camp, in or under water would be fun.

What i realy want to see is a sandbox mode. We place and build towers, supplys etc

McWolfy.5924:

What i realy want to see is a sandbox mode. We place and build towers, supplys etc

u wish… game engine not compatible with that stuff (gw1 fork), gw2 is almost a pure tablet game to be played on PC , be happy to have skin fest.

P.S there are sandbox mmos arriving europe and usa.

@OP, yes map and castle design is awfull and bored.

I am all for your suggestion of new maps. I think to keep balance, the outer borderlands would need to remain the same as they are now. As for EB, that could be a map that cycles through a set of new maps each week (except perhaps during seasons.)

By cycling the maps I think it would rejuvenate long-time players of WvW while also keeping the content fresh and from being over-played.

I like how the major argument against different maps is “one Bl will inevitably have an unfair advantage somehow”…because, you know, tactics play such a huge part in WvW when most match-ups are coverage and/or Blob Vs Blob.

The layouts could be the same as far as portal/camp/keep positions but having the map terrain and fauna themes vary would help a lot to alleviate tedium.

Grasslands – what the borderlands are now. Open field, high mobility, far visibility.

Deep Forest – Dense cover; low visibility and frequent short breaks in LOS; tends to scatter zergs due to navigating around trees.

Glacial Valley – scattered chunks of rock deposits litter the area forming impromptu cover and concealment for ambushes; constant snowstorms limit long range visibility. Wandering through water on foot procs Chill.

Scattered Islands – portals/camps/keeps are located on islands; majority of other terrain is aquatic. Dolyaks replaced with Quaggan supply runners. Consider giving some towers/keeps additional underwater entrances to partially mitigate how difficult it would be to siege from range; or place convenient reefs/outcroppings for doing so.

Volcanic Mountains – rocky broken terrain threaded with lava flows and pools (environmental hazard!) instead of rivers. Dolyaks replaced with supply golems. Periodic ash rains in unprotected areas that proc burning and blindness.

Fetid Swamps – dense thickets of grass and brush as well as moss curtains and persistent fog harshly limit visibility outside of the torchlit paths. Swamp gas eruptions (poison) a hazard in some areas. Shallow water covers most of the zone; which leaves telltale ripples and noise if you move quickly.

One of the earliest ideas thrown around was “server specific borderlands”, in keeping with the theme of the server. It never happened.

How about taking the ideas such as Overkillengine’s and then rotating them week to week for all BLs. Keep EB the same as its the stabilizing center but the Borderlands can change week to week for all servers. So Week 1 would have Glacial and the next week would be Islands.

Make 3 other options and have a 4 map rotation. Would make it awesome and interesting.

Something like how GW1 was able to somehow do 16 different guild hall maps for GvG?

Imagine that on a much grander scale for WvW!

Could have Pros/Cons for each world map or put it on a rotation with lower rank servers having a slight advantage & higher ranked servers having to fight a little harder to stay on top.

They claimed testing a map takes 6 months, been 2 years since beta, where are our 4 new maps?!

I’d rather have them fix bugs in existing maps, instead of bringing more in new maps, though I like the map rotations idea.
EBG could sometimes swap with EoTM, and borderlines can have quaggans on some MU, and bloodlust on others… so that people who are bored can get some little changes (I personnaly am not… I like knowing where attacks might come from, and how to defend against them… and new maps would screw it up, until spots are discovered, and won’t be long before people start whining again for some changes, forgetting they just had some while claiming they didn’t get any since release…)

I think it’s incredibly lazy to still have the same 3 copies of the 1 BL 18 months after launch… It’s almost like they’ve completely run out of ideas.

Ruins were a total failure and EOTM is a nonstop champ farm – they might as well have made a single-texture 500m x 500m square map.

I think the biggest problem is that anet over design their maps to the extent they end up more like the layout of a pinball game than world geography.

Aazo.2841:

Yeah.. I played DAOC for many years. Still consider it one of the best games out there for large scale open world PVP. It’s terrain allowed for different tactics depending on which zone one was fighting in.

Talk about rose tinted glasses. RvR was all about the golf-course Emain map (it was like playing on a pool table). The other maps were covered in annoying mobs and the large scale fights were huge minute-long AoEmezzCC-fests. The /assist tank trains were appalling. Although far from perfect, this game is a million times better.

This said, I think that new maps could be part of a long-term development plan, but I haven’t got any hope of one of those.

I don’t think names should even be seen in WvW….

I’d be nice to have one new EB and one new BL map put into the rotation. BUT…

…if new maps have the potential to look like the bloodlust ruins, EoTM, or skyhammer, then I’d rather play with the same old maps we have now.

Its annoying enough right now that only durious gulch and red keep are the only places that can treb smc.

If it is a matter of balance between the three borderlands then why has EBG’s red side consistently been the easiest to defend? Fully fortified red keep and Veloka are near impossible to take unless you golem rush with 20+.

On to the point if its still about balance why not have the maps still be the same map on all 3 bl’s at one time but each week a different style. One week forest, one week mountains and volcanos, one week snowy drifts with ice and water, one week barren wasteland with sand traps etc. Keep all 3 BL’s having the same map so balance is not the issue but change the actual map every other week. Maybe a random selection or a vote by the community.

Its generally agreed upon by friends that each BL should look like a different dragon dry humped it.

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

One of the earliest ideas thrown around was “server specific borderlands”, in keeping with the theme of the server. It never happened.

I think it never happened because of the balance argument.

But after 18 months it should be painfully clear that a few differences in terrain would be nothing compared to coverage when it comes to balance.

so lets get some new maps!

Just make new maps, same for each BL and EB and rotate them every month, let’s say.

Btw I believe the reson why there’s so little on these maps, they’re basicly flat green/white textures is because of technical requirements. Game is still meh at best optimized and each tree, waterfall or building would further slow down older PCs and make the zerg clashes even more laggy.

I’m all after new maps, more objects, but first optimize the game or eliminate massive zerging.

Boom.6148:

Something like how GW1 was able to somehow do 16 different guild hall maps for GvG?

Imagine that on a much grander scale for WvW!

Could have Pros/Cons for each world map or put it on a rotation with lower rank servers having a slight advantage & higher ranked servers having to fight a little harder to stay on top.

:O

Imagine there was a voting system where guilds could be elected for a political council system on each server, where guilds/groups could select or vote for the borderland model.

Guilds also could try to be elected to admin the keeps.
Guild could select the design of several camp’s towers etc by guild rank
Would have a better community, lower server could try to get more players from top servers to create more guilds due pseudo sandbox model and maintainance of the map and server BL would not reset.

A.Net sold the game as a game builted by the community and IMO making player taking care of their server and their Tyria, while Anet could expand those option would be a very good game model.

All i see are the placebo updates.

Laylie.5703:

If it is a matter of balance between the three borderlands then why has EBG’s red side consistently been the easiest to defend?

And yet red side usually loses despite this advantage. That’s because green is the top seed, blue second seed and red third seed.

You could create a new map and then replicate it for all border lands and simply rotate every 2 months between a set of say 3. That would eliminate the fairness issue.

Would like if there were like 10 different Border maps and 3 different EB maps and everyone on the server get to vote with map they want for there borderland / EB then you have a draw with the % on the different maps vote your server had (EB all 3 servers had).

Shadow.3475:

Would like if there were like 10 different Border maps and 3 different EB maps and everyone on the server get to vote with map they want for there borderland / EB then you have a draw with the % on the different maps vote your server had (EB all 3 servers had).

That could be part of the game. You have 3 potential maps, but you can’t defend them all, so you have to let 2 fall. That’s how you vote for the one you want.

Reikan.2908:

Its annoying enough right now that only durious gulch and red keep are the only places that can treb smc.

Did I miss a patch where you now can’t treb from Anz? Or the Treb tower? Or WC? or Klovan?

Maybe I’m not remembering the green towers as well, but I for sure know you can treb from Wildcreek. I am 80% sure about Klovan.

But there a lot of places you can treb SMC from. Red Keep is just the easiest for constant barrage because its a keep and thus harder to take.

Boom.6148:

I like how the major argument against different maps is “one Bl will inevitably have an unfair advantage somehow”…because, you know, tactics play such a huge part in WvW when most match-ups are coverage and/or Blob Vs Blob.

There is tons of strategy and tactics in wvw. blob and coverage all you want if you aren’t playing the supply game.

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

One of the earliest ideas thrown around was “server specific borderlands”, in keeping with the theme of the server. It never happened.

I would love this. I personally don’t care if each map is tactically the same….and really you should have some sort of “home advantage” on your own borderland. This is your home map and you should know all the nooks and crannies of your homeland better than an enemy territory.

Keep them all the same size with the same number of camps, towers and keeps, skillpoints, etc but for each world having their own special landscape would be epic and awesome.

Lots of great idea’s here, lets hope we keep them flowing.

Maybe like 5 new maps and EB and it randomly picks 3 each week for the home maps, the new maps and the standard BL that is around now in a RNG so that maybe even 2 of the maps will be the same.

Rym.1469:

Just make new maps, same for each BL and EB and rotate them every month, let’s say.

Btw I believe the reson why there’s so little on these maps, they’re basicly flat green/white textures is because of technical requirements. Game is still meh at best optimized and each tree, waterfall or building would further slow down older PCs and make the zerg clashes even more laggy.

I’m all after new maps, more objects, but first optimize the game or eliminate massive zerging.

Part of the reason I suggested weather effects especially on the more complex terrain types is you can use them to reduce the draw distance needed on those maps.

Aazo.2841:

Yeah.. I played DAOC for many years. Still consider it one of the best games out there for large scale open world PVP. It’s terrain allowed for different tactics depending on which zone one was fighting in.

I don’t understand why we don’t see a DAOC clone these days

Topography isn’t the problem IMO. They need to mix up the combat. Where we fight is of less concern.

grifflyman.8102:

I don’t understand why we don’t see a DAOC clone these days

Pretty much all the hardcore open world PvP players is pegging their hopes on Camelot Unchained.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained

+1 to OP

Having played WvW since launch, I too have always anticipated new WvW maps. Unfortunately, Anet decided to create a Karka ridden zone that no one visits instead.

As to the issue of balance, the only real factor is that of distance between towers/keeps. As long as the same number of towers can be hit by trebs from tower A, the map is balanced enough for me. I personally would be very, very happy if Anet decided to work with WvW (which is 99% of endgame material) instead of focusing on living story updates. Just give everyone an automatic 1k achievement points every two weeks so meaningful updates can proceed. Hopefully now that the feature pack is out we will start seeing more attention given to WvW.