Guild Wars 2

EDIT: I’ve been getting frustrated with dying a lot on my Staff Elementalist. Is there a class or build that has a lot more survival and control?

Which class has the best area control in a large group or zerg?
Boon removal would also be considered for removing stability.

This is what I’ve been thinking:

Mesmer (Glamour build)
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAsdRnsISpa2qGGrB1aGp0QO5zoou84wkMwBA

Necromancer (Wells)
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRQQNBmODbkjmWarpxoG+bTULIQ2IQkh6Q98wlB-w

Warrior (Hammer)
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fJQQNBiYD7kKRq8wOPwxDoDxAcBF2+OA0lCpzgQYDA-w

Elementalist (Staff)
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFQQFAWhMMaZ25wyBrEBEACpkhDEZgwSZK9G-w

Warrior>All of those in terms of control IMO. Earthshaker super spammable compared to anything else. Though a good ele static or a good necro well bomb can turn the fight in an instant.

I heard of a Guardian build that has extreme healing. Does anyone know this build?

Likely a cleric healway/medi build, one second.

Edit: Quick throw together http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQNApeRlsApbolDxaI8DNRDRl18hdEkBd51HQBEAA-TlRDwA4U/5oyPo7P0QJIAzfp0HQKA9UGB-w

Healing power scaling tends to go to complete kitten after ~900 though I believe. So you can do just as well hovering around that much.

Any ranged control?

Lablamb.2419:

Any ranged control?

On a guardian? Nawh, the current meta, previous meta, and likely future meta is GWEN (Guardian, Warrior, Elementalist, Necromancer). As you core classes.

Ranged Pressure and CC comes from your eles and necros through Static stuns, Earth Wall, Chills and Fears.

Granted I guess that Guardians do have a LoW (Line of Warding) but that can be easily stabled through.

Anything that is difficult to pass through with stability? Chill and immobilize doesn’t get removed with stability. I’ve been playing a Staff Elementalist for a while now and I seem to not control much of anything.

That’s why I figured everyone had stability on and with a Glamour Mesmer I could remove the boons. Other than Necromancer and Mesmer, are there any boon removal classes?

Lablamb.2419:

Anything that is difficult to pass through with stability? Chill and immobilize doesn’t get removed with stability. I’ve been playing a Staff Elementalist for a while now and I seem to not control much of anything.

That’s why I figured everyone had stability on and with a Glamour Mesmer I could remove the boons. Other than Necromancer and Mesmer, are there any boon removal classes?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Searing_Flames

Guardian.

Lablamb.2419:

Anything that is difficult to pass through with stability? Chill and immobilize doesn’t get removed with stability. I’ve been playing a Staff Elementalist for a while now and I seem to not control much of anything.

That’s why I figured everyone had stability on and with a Glamour Mesmer I could remove the boons. Other than Necromancer and Mesmer, are there any boon removal classes?

Not really. Engineers have a boon removal skill that can be pretty effective, but it’s close range.

No class comes close to the Ele in term of aoe control.

Ice field, Static field, earth line of warding equivalent, nuking (moves or crush zergs).

If you ever wonder why eles love playing staff it’s because of it’s intense area control in zerg fights: Mist form through a rushing organized group, static field from behind, meteor shower, ice field, tornado them down (EOTM), get your loot.

Banzie.5248:

Lablamb.2419:

Any ranged control?

On a guardian? Nawh, the current meta, previous meta, and likely future meta is GWEN (Guardian, Warrior, Elementalist, Necromancer). As you core classes.

Ranged Pressure and CC comes from your eles and necros through Static stuns, Earth Wall, Chills and Fears.

Granted I guess that Guardians do have a LoW (Line of Warding) but that can be easily stabled through.

Nothing more fun than playing a hammer gardian and using Judges intervention and Hammer 5, and searing flames. while an enemy zerg is stacked.

I’ve been debating between a Guardian and Warrior for the more survival. Staff Elementalist has been so squishy and I’m not enjoying it as much as I thought. Not to mention it doesn’t seem to be dealing as much damage as I would like.

Staff Eles can be squishy if built squishy. Sth like this (Poor man’s staff ele) or this (if you got enough coin to spend) will give you ridiculous amounts of survivability if played correctly. You can even go Valkyrie-glass (no additional toughness) if you feel like it without ever dying. Staff ele has by far the strongest crowd control abilities in mid to large scale fights, and if you don’t focus on pure damage you’ll find that attunement dancing is not only viable for D/D builds but also on staff.
Every #2 spell in every attunement deals stupid amounts of damage and should be on cooldown most of the time; #3 and #4 are mostly for minor support or self-sustain and #5 is the go-to damage, go-to water combo field, go-to hard-CC and go-to soft-CC.

If you think any other class can be more versatile or deliver better control on a large scale, you might want to look into staff ele again in detail, before stating it would be too squishy. Also positioning and situational awareness, plus a supportive team environment will compensate for every lack of passive defense (specially armor) and allows for strong offensive capabilities and even stronger area control from 1200 units distance.

This is the build I use for zerg staff ele
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFQQFAWnMIShD25AWOArEGIEIIvtcNMooYdJA-T1BEwAGuAAMV+Va/h26Aap+DgHAwWlgAA-w

Also, I’ve been running a slightly different trait build recently
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFQQFAWnMIShD25AWOArEGQAQInNZ1QBKPfcaA-T1BEwAGuAAMV+Va/h26Aap+DgHAwWlgAA-w

It has incredible survivability and does great damage. It’s mostly zerk gear but with soldier armor and divinity runes for health and sustain. Still a very power based build that does a ton of damage – up to 10k crits with the meteornado combo

Reverence.6915:

This is the build I use for zerg staff ele
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFQQFAWnMIShD25AWOArEGIEIIvtcNMooYdJA-T1BEwAGuAAMV+Va/h26Aap+DgHAwWlgAA-w

Also, I’ve been running a slightly different trait build recently
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFQQFAWnMIShD25AWOArEGQAQInNZ1QBKPfcaA-T1BEwAGuAAMV+Va/h26Aap+DgHAwWlgAA-w

It has incredible survivability and does great damage. It’s mostly zerk gear but with soldier armor and divinity runes for health and sustain. Still a very power based build that does a ton of damage – up to 10k crits with the meteornado combo

That’s exactly what I run but not with zerk. Also why does the Meteor Shower and Tornado work together? Is there some hidden ability?

Lablamb.2419:

Warrior (Hammer)
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fJQQNBiYD7kKRq8wOPwxDoDxAcBF2+OA0lCpzgQYDA-w

Run Trooper runes and this build has no inherent weaknesses, will likely be one of the last standing in a fight, has great group support, can wade deep into enemy ranks dishing out decent sustained damage and spams control… tons of control. This build even escapes fights when they turn against you.

The downside IMO is it lacks spike damage so bringing down bunkers solo is nearly impossible and it can be a somewhat boring build to manage since it runs on auto-pilot. Without a doubt the easiest class/build to play.

Full zerk staff ele. If you’re dying its not the class or build, it’s you.

There’s no denying Glamour build is fun when you drop it on a zerg.
However, in small scale fights, they are very lack luster in my opinion, and the build doesn’t do much else.

Necro staff is great AoE and you can also trait wells to be ground targetted. They also have Death Shroud with a lovely AoE on it. The only problem with Necro is the lack of boons. Their escapes are very situational though.

Afkjosh.3912:

Lablamb.2419:

Anything that is difficult to pass through with stability? Chill and immobilize doesn’t get removed with stability. I’ve been playing a Staff Elementalist for a while now and I seem to not control much of anything.

That’s why I figured everyone had stability on and with a Glamour Mesmer I could remove the boons. Other than Necromancer and Mesmer, are there any boon removal classes?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Searing_Flames

Guardian.

One single boon removed from one single target on a 10 second cooldown is NOT a boon removal class. Decent trait in small scale, absolutely worthless in zerg v zerg. Any class can do the same thing with a sigil of nullification.

Engineer also has a crappy boon removal utility (it’s ok in a roaming build, but a kit or elixer is almost always a better choice). Thieves can trait to steal 2 boons every 21 sec and can also steal a few with mainhand sword. These are also best in small scale, losing effectiveness rapidly as enemies increase in number.

Necromancers and Mesmers are the only ones with an AoE boon removal ability (well, Engineer “throw mine” is 5 target irrc, but the others are pulsing fields which persist for several seconds and buff allies, no contest really).

All that said, if you want an area control class, and staff Elementalist doesn’t have enough for you, you’re going to be disappointed with anything else. This game doesn’t have a class that can solo lockdown a whole area how some games do. It’s a design choice which some people don’t like, but I see why they did it this way. It’s fun for one person to feel powerful enough to control a battle completely, but for the players who have to simply stand there and die, unable to react, it’s not fun at all. Choosing to remove the ability of a single player to have fun at the expense of the frustration of a large group of people keeps more people playing the game. More people playing the game means more money for the company (obviously) and more targets for you to PvP with in the long run.

CC in this game isn’t about a single hero stopping everyone. It’s about coordination. Boon stripping and CC have to happen together to be effective. It’s about having a team not a godmode skillbar.

the only class that can build for total lockdown of a “zone” would be CC ranger.
you’d have superior AOE immob, chill, cripple and to some extent daze/stun and knockback. There is no other class in the game that can offer the sheer amount of broad spectrum AOE CC on short cooldowns that rangers can, none. While the others can build to be equally good at ONE of the forms of CC, the ranger is still superior overall.

CC ranger however is a niche function, where you build to provide maximum amount of aoe CC. It will be a support+DPS function, not overly powerful, but it can lock/slow down half a blob if done right. Performance is dependent on the user.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQJATVjMq0xa9KmrQ1ag8AZ9jARadkdqVtOZDToF-TVyAABDcEAkRXAAPAAkU+pj6PQfJA+Z/BKUC6m5PSBsoyK-w

Edit: run in a team with a wellomancer with epidemic to cause total devastation. You will be spamming long duration immob, chill and cripple throughout the zerg in seconds.

the way you play this build, is to stay in the periphery and spam the traps/muddy terrain into the enemy zerg/backline. Use entangle for the backline only, or else the roots will get “hammered”.

I’ve been using this build lately, it may seems strange at first because of the 3 points in air and fire but it works miracle for me (actually does more damage than if I place all 6 points in air, unlike before the feature patch), I don’t have to stay on the back line when zerging and I can do massive damage with it.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQFAWhMMKcW5wzBrEBKACxk7iFQWmijnC-TVSBABWqGAN7P0oSQKV9pLlOd8AAKTZ0h6AA4CAEAABwRP6RP6RPaX3oH9oH9olCQWhRA-w

If I want even more damage I can:
1- change my Bifrost to Berserker
2- use crit food instead
3- remove 2 points in arcana and put them in fire

Lablamb.2419:

Reverence.6915:

This is the build I use for zerg staff ele
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFQQFAWnMIShD25AWOArEGIEIIvtcNMooYdJA-T1BEwAGuAAMV+Va/h26Aap+DgHAwWlgAA-w

Also, I’ve been running a slightly different trait build recently
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFQQFAWnMIShD25AWOArEGQAQInNZ1QBKPfcaA-T1BEwAGuAAMV+Va/h26Aap+DgHAwWlgAA-w

It has incredible survivability and does great damage. It’s mostly zerk gear but with soldier armor and divinity runes for health and sustain. Still a very power based build that does a ton of damage – up to 10k crits with the meteornado combo

That’s exactly what I run but not with zerk. Also why does the Meteor Shower and Tornado work together? Is there some hidden ability?

Meteor shower continues to deal damage after you’ve finished channeling it (you can start casting a second spell before the channel ends). Tornado boosts your stats by heaps (mainly Power and providing Stability while giving Knockback on 5 opponents in your AoE). Combine the two, and you start doing a ton of damage

Staff Elementalists are the biggest AoE damage dealers and Static Field is the best AoE “hard” control skill in the game while Frozen Ground is the best “soft” control skill, reason being that those skills aren’t bound by the AoE cap. You also provide water fields on short cooldown while also having the ability to remove 8 conditions every 15 seconds with Ether Renewal (I take arcane brilliance for the blast finisher if I’m running with a zerg busting group as they also carry a lot of AoE condi clear, but Ether Renewal in large pug zergs as they’re really bad at clearing condi).

Prysin.8542:

the only class that can build for total lockdown of a “zone” would be CC ranger.
you’d have superior AOE immob, chill, cripple and to some extent daze/stun and knockback. There is no other class in the game that can offer the sheer amount of broad spectrum AOE CC on short cooldowns that rangers can, none. While the others can build to be equally good at ONE of the forms of CC, the ranger is still superior overall.

It has no AoE stun, knockback or daze… it is immediately discounted for this exact reason. The ranger is almost devoid of any AoE locks. It can slow an opponent and has a decent immobilize, but without a hard AoE lock that requires a stun breaker it is a horrible control class.

You have to stop trying to shoe horn the ranger class into every possible build scenario. The class blows in WvW even after the last round of changes.

Lablamb.2419:

Reverence.6915:

This is the build I use for zerg staff ele
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFQQFAWnMIShD25AWOArEGIEIIvtcNMooYdJA-T1BEwAGuAAMV+Va/h26Aap+DgHAwWlgAA-w

Also, I’ve been running a slightly different trait build recently
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFQQFAWnMIShD25AWOArEGQAQInNZ1QBKPfcaA-T1BEwAGuAAMV+Va/h26Aap+DgHAwWlgAA-w

It has incredible survivability and does great damage. It’s mostly zerk gear but with soldier armor and divinity runes for health and sustain. Still a very power based build that does a ton of damage – up to 10k crits with the meteornado combo

That’s exactly what I run but not with zerk. Also why does the Meteor Shower and Tornado work together? Is there some hidden ability?

Tornado boosts your power by 3x, your precision by 2x, and your vitality by 2×.

So in a channel like Meteor Shower (The meteors keep falling after the cast time), your power gets amped up massive amounts. With a glass ele you can start seeing 5-8k crits on a tanky group and some truly ridiculous 10-20k crits on uplevels and the like. Obviously these are under optimal conditions such as with might stacks and other boosters.

Straegen.2938:

Prysin.8542:

the only class that can build for total lockdown of a “zone” would be CC ranger.
you’d have superior AOE immob, chill, cripple and to some extent daze/stun and knockback. There is no other class in the game that can offer the sheer amount of broad spectrum AOE CC on short cooldowns that rangers can, none. While the others can build to be equally good at ONE of the forms of CC, the ranger is still superior overall.

It has no AoE stun, knockback or daze… it is immediately discounted for this exact reason. The ranger is almost devoid of any AoE locks. It can slow an opponent and has a decent immobilize, but without a hard AoE lock that requires a stun breaker it is a horrible control class.

You have to stop trying to shoe horn the ranger class into every possible build scenario. The class blows in WvW even after the last round of changes.

and stun, knockback or daze is countered by a million passive “when CC’d” traits that proc either stability, fear, protection, stealth or god knows what. Not to mention IT CAN BE COUNTERED BY A SIMPLE BOON.

Cripple, chill and immob CAN NOT BE COUNTERED BY A BOON.

You have to use a cleanse, or god forbid, learn how to stack condies and you’ll see that you can cover that CC up. Only class that is very resistent to CC is warrior because of passive stability proc, condi immunity and passive CC duration reduction ontop of runes and food. Warrior is the ONLY class mass CC will not work on, no matter what, however the warrior barely makes up for 20% of any normal zerg, therefore, it is stupid to try counter the warrior alone, it is insignificant in the long run as most zerg wars run selfish builds that is even more selfish then any ranger build is, go figure….

The classes that really is hurt by AOE lockdown is the ones you want dead – in other words; necromancers, guards, eles and mesmers….

Guards got no good passive way to counter CC, so they often get caught up for a second or two before they realize that they’re stuck.
Eles can never stop moving or else they die instantly.
Necros can cleanse really fast, but if it doesn’t, it will be turned into a ping-pong ball when your allied warriors come in with their hammers.
Mesmers – they just die if caught inside a focus point.

Just because your ONE class can deal with any class locking you down, does not mean that the rest of your zerg will be the same. You do not need to lock down people for days for it to have an effect. 1-2 seconds is all it takes to ruin someones position and catch them.

Not to mention that warrior and guard CC is 100% tied to melee ranged weapons. Meaning they HAVE to risk going into a focus point. In which case they will melt unless the enemy is doing it wrong or you have superior numbers. The ranger can stay on the edges and throw into the battle, thus it is less likely to be killed or pushed back before it can fulfill its purpose.

infact, you yourself have admitted to not playing ranger since BM nerf. That was 11 months ago now…. 11 months… just because rangers weren’t good then doesn’t mean they ain’t good now. Even if our tools weren’t made epic, everyone else’s tools got nerfed a little, bringing them a little “down” towards where the ranger allegedly is.

Prysin.8542:

and stun, knockback or daze is countered by a million passive “when CC’d” traits that proc either stability, fear, protection, stealth or god knows what. Not to mention IT CAN BE COUNTERED BY A SIMPLE BOON.

Cripple, chill and immob CAN NOT BE COUNTERED BY A BOON.

This post is asking about area CONTROL not area CONDITIONs. Cripple, chill and Immobilize is so easily removed it is near laughable when compared to a hard lock. Commanders don’t yell, “Immobilize at the gate” or “Immobilize them here”… they ask for hard locks and boon striping. Its not an Immobilization Train… it is a Hammer Train for a reason.

Now Fear is a hybrid condi/control ability but a rangers AoE fear is tied to a pet…. yawn.

Current meta is GWEN not RRRR.

I don’t think Thief has much area control but for blast combo finishing nothing can really beat a thief. I mean just look at this skill: Cluster Bomb

Spamming that on a water field will definitely give your team some “survival”. I use this build and it works well: Bunker Evade

Edited: to clarify specifics since OP asked for a survivable build.

ricky.2679:

I don’t think Thief has much area control but for blast combo finishing nothing can really beat a thief. I mean just look at this skill: Cluster Bomb

Spamming that on a fire field or water field will definitely give your team some “area control”. Just make sure you’re tanky enough to handle frontline zerging and maybe some healing power and you’ll do fine.

Control is basically an ability that effects movement and turns activated skills of an enemy off not including stun breakers (and a handful of other skills). This includes effects such as Daze, Knockdown, Stun, Pull, etc.

Soft control is often referred to as abilities that hinder movement but do not effect enemy skills. These include Chill, Immobilize, Cripple.

The thief class has virtually zero soft or hard AoE control. Like the Ranger they do have access to some decent single target control but in a zerg setting they do not offer anything substantial in the form of control.

Straegen.2938:

Prysin.8542:

and stun, knockback or daze is countered by a million passive “when CC’d” traits that proc either stability, fear, protection, stealth or god knows what. Not to mention IT CAN BE COUNTERED BY A SIMPLE BOON.

Cripple, chill and immob CAN NOT BE COUNTERED BY A BOON.

This post is asking about area CONTROL not area CONDITIONs. Cripple, chill and Immobilize is so easily removed it is near laughable when compared to a hard lock. Commanders don’t yell, “Immobilize at the gate” or “Immobilize them here”… they ask for hard locks and boon striping. Its not an Immobilization Train… it is a Hammer Train for a reason.

Now Fear is a hybrid condi/control ability but a rangers AoE fear is tied to a pet…. yawn.

Current meta is GWEN not RRRR.

wat

Immobilize is like the hardest CC there is in game.

I guess its technically soft CC as it doesn’t prevent you from using skills, but it is the only thing that can stop someone with stability. I’d rather have someone immobilized at the gate than drop a static field that everyone can run through. It’s also like the last condition that is removed with cleanses.

yep, immob is only really countered (effectively) by Dogged March, Geomancers Freedom and a few other -duration traits when coupled with lemongrass and melandru runes. However if you do not run ALL of these together, your “counter” is pretty inefficient. compared to how easy it is to increase ones own +duration.

What i love with immob is that if you “burn” your cleanse to remove it, you are suceptible to all the necro marks and epidemic that follows right behind the frontline, thus you “wasted” a cleanse….
Also, most people run stunbreakers that also remove immob… using it to get out of immob makes you vulnerable to stuns (if you have no stability that is)

@straegen
Your lack of knowledge about rangers and how to use them keep “shining” ever brighter.
Any experienced player knows that rangers “must” run piercing arrows if using a bow… take your pick and you get either piercing stun/daze or knockback. It’s not the most powerful stun/daze or knockback skills, but since piercing attacks is limited only to projectile trajectory, some clever positioning and targeting can net you half a zerg worth of knockbacks, If in doubt, try it out in EOTM…. nothing is more epic then sending 20+ people off a ledge with single arrow….

Tibstrike.2974:

Immobilize is like the hardest CC there is in game.

I guess its technically soft CC as it doesn’t prevent you from using skills, but it is the only thing that can stop someone with stability. I’d rather have someone immobilized at the gate than drop a static field that everyone can run through. It’s also like the last condition that is removed with cleanses.

I will say it again at best immobilize is soft area control and not control itself. It doesn’t prevent a target from doing anything other than using movement keys (they can still blink, teleport, attack, etc) and even then it doesn’t last long enough in a large group setting to matter much. The only time immobilize is a significant threat is in smaller scale fights where its stacking effect is a PIA for non-warriors. Against a hammer train, immobilize is generally useless.

The GWEN model came about partially because of the power of stability (hard locks) and condi removal (soft control). An EN combo can effectively lock down and drop a ton of damage on an entire hammer train. A Ranger just gets run over.

Prysin.8542:

Your lack of knowledge about rangers and how to use them keep “shining” ever brighter.

I have logged more WvW hours on a ranger than most of the players in WvW. I have also punched in well over 10k kills in WvW with a Ranger. I am very much aware of their limitations. I have over 60k WvW kills several of those of the pet carrying variety both in zergs, skirmish and roaming. I find the class somewhat pathetic virtually every fight. Even good rangers rarely put up a fair fight and go down relatively easily. Not that I am some wunderkind player, the ranger players are fighting with one hand tied behind their back using this class in WvW. Many of those ranger players would actually be dangerous in some other class.

Straegen.2938:

Tibstrike.2974:

Immobilize is like the hardest CC there is in game.

I guess its technically soft CC as it doesn’t prevent you from using skills, but it is the only thing that can stop someone with stability. I’d rather have someone immobilized at the gate than drop a static field that everyone can run through. It’s also like the last condition that is removed with cleanses.

I will say it again at best immobilize is soft area control and not control itself. It doesn’t prevent a target from doing anything other than using movement keys (they can still blink, teleport, attack, etc) and even then it doesn’t last long enough in a large group setting to matter much. The only time immobilize is a significant threat is in smaller scale fights where its stacking effect is a PIA for non-warriors. Against a hammer train, immobilize is generally useless.

The GWEN model came about partially because of the power of stability (hard locks) and condi removal (soft control). An EN combo can effectively lock down and drop a ton of damage on an entire hammer train. A Ranger just gets run over.

You are right. It is not a true hard control. But in the fast moving combat of zerg fighting it is very strong. I don’t know where you think immobilize is only good in small fights. While conditions fly off pretty fast, if someone is rooted in zerg combat for a second or two they will get melted.

Tibstrike.2974:

You are right. It is not a true hard control. But in the fast moving combat of zerg fighting it is very strong. I don’t know where you think immobilize is only good in small fights. While conditions fly off pretty fast, if someone is rooted in zerg combat for a second or two they will get melted.

I am not saying it is ONLY good in small scale fights but that is where it shines. Condi removal is more difficult there and stacks of immobilize tend to last.

In large scale combat, immobilize doesn’t turn off heals, attacks, etc. It might slow down a back line for the train to roll over them, but throw immobilize on the stack and they won’t even slow for a beat. The reason EN is so powerful is that combo can effectively strip stability and TURN OFF a stack… this is what control is in GW2.

The entire reason this even came up is the absurd statement that a ranger has better control than a necro or ele which it categorically does not in shape, fashion or form.

Straegen.2938:

Tibstrike.2974:

You are right. It is not a true hard control. But in the fast moving combat of zerg fighting it is very strong. I don’t know where you think immobilize is only good in small fights. While conditions fly off pretty fast, if someone is rooted in zerg combat for a second or two they will get melted.

I am not saying it is ONLY good in small scale fights but that is where it shines. Condi removal is more difficult there and stacks of immobilize tend to last.

In large scale combat, immobilize doesn’t turn off heals, attacks, etc. It might slow down a back line for the train to roll over them, but throw immobilize on the stack and they won’t even slow for a beat. The reason EN is so powerful is that combo can effectively strip stability and TURN OFF a stack… this is what control is in GW2.

The entire reason this even came up is the absurd statement that a ranger has better control than a necro or ele which it categorically does not in shape, fashion or form.

the downside to EN is that they themselves have next to ZERO stability (tornado aint proper stability as it draws too much attention to you).
This means your whole “EN is so epic” combo, while powerful, is more likely to be wiped when caught. Which they will once you immob them.

Also, 60k kills? Really bragging about 60k kills?
3 weeks on an arrowcart – job done.

Prysin.8542:

the downside to EN is that they themselves have next to ZERO stability (tornado aint proper stability as it draws too much attention to you).
This means your whole “EN is so epic” combo, while powerful, is more likely to be wiped when caught. Which they will once you immob them.

Hence the other part of the GWEN meta: the GW. Can’t wipe them when you can’t get to them.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Prysin.8542:

the downside to EN is that they themselves have next to ZERO stability (tornado aint proper stability as it draws too much attention to you).
This means your whole “EN is so epic” combo, while powerful, is more likely to be wiped when caught. Which they will once you immob them.

Hence the other part of the GWEN meta: the GW. Can’t wipe them when you can’t get to them.

the GW part cannot reach me, because i am far outside their range. You see, i quite recently where shown something really cool called positioning, and how it could affect my play. It was not too hard to learn, and allowed me to avoid the whole GW part altogether. I strongly recommend you try it out.

Prysin.8542:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Prysin.8542:

the downside to EN is that they themselves have next to ZERO stability (tornado aint proper stability as it draws too much attention to you).
This means your whole “EN is so epic” combo, while powerful, is more likely to be wiped when caught. Which they will once you immob them.

Hence the other part of the GWEN meta: the GW. Can’t wipe them when you can’t get to them.

the GW part cannot reach me, because i am far outside their range. You see, i quite recently where shown something really cool called positioning, and how it could affect my play. It was not too hard to learn, and allowed me to avoid the whole GW part altogether. I strongly recommend you try it out.

If the GW can’t reach you, you can’t reach the EN.

So you’re sitting way back, plinking away ineffectively.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Prysin.8542:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Prysin.8542:

the downside to EN is that they themselves have next to ZERO stability (tornado aint proper stability as it draws too much attention to you).
This means your whole “EN is so epic” combo, while powerful, is more likely to be wiped when caught. Which they will once you immob them.

Hence the other part of the GWEN meta: the GW. Can’t wipe them when you can’t get to them.

the GW part cannot reach me, because i am far outside their range. You see, i quite recently where shown something really cool called positioning, and how it could affect my play. It was not too hard to learn, and allowed me to avoid the whole GW part altogether. I strongly recommend you try it out.

If the GW can’t reach you, you can’t reach the EN.

So you’re sitting way back, plinking away ineffectively.

yet i got hard CC on my “way back and ineffective” weapon… and enough DPS to make the EN part spend time staying alive rather then attacking. You wouldnt know this, because finding a proper sniper ranger is about as rare as winning the lottery these days.

Ele and necros have the best area control. Necros have more survivability.

Prysin.8542:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Prysin.8542:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Prysin.8542:

the downside to EN is that they themselves have next to ZERO stability (tornado aint proper stability as it draws too much attention to you).
This means your whole “EN is so epic” combo, while powerful, is more likely to be wiped when caught. Which they will once you immob them.

Hence the other part of the GWEN meta: the GW. Can’t wipe them when you can’t get to them.

the GW part cannot reach me, because i am far outside their range. You see, i quite recently where shown something really cool called positioning, and how it could affect my play. It was not too hard to learn, and allowed me to avoid the whole GW part altogether. I strongly recommend you try it out.

If the GW can’t reach you, you can’t reach the EN.

So you’re sitting way back, plinking away ineffectively.

yet i got hard CC on my “way back and ineffective” weapon… and enough DPS to make the EN part spend time staying alive rather then attacking. You wouldnt know this, because finding a proper sniper ranger is about as rare as winning the lottery these days.

Even with proper positioning, if you can hit the 1200 range EN without them being able to reach you, the GW can reach you quite quickly. Even with Eagle Eye, you only have ~600 range to work with, and gap closers are very prevalent.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Prysin.8542:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Prysin.8542:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Prysin.8542:

the downside to EN is that they themselves have next to ZERO stability (tornado aint proper stability as it draws too much attention to you).
This means your whole “EN is so epic” combo, while powerful, is more likely to be wiped when caught. Which they will once you immob them.

Hence the other part of the GWEN meta: the GW. Can’t wipe them when you can’t get to them.

the GW part cannot reach me, because i am far outside their range. You see, i quite recently where shown something really cool called positioning, and how it could affect my play. It was not too hard to learn, and allowed me to avoid the whole GW part altogether. I strongly recommend you try it out.

If the GW can’t reach you, you can’t reach the EN.

So you’re sitting way back, plinking away ineffectively.

yet i got hard CC on my “way back and ineffective” weapon… and enough DPS to make the EN part spend time staying alive rather then attacking. You wouldnt know this, because finding a proper sniper ranger is about as rare as winning the lottery these days.

Even with proper positioning, if you can hit the 1200 range EN without them being able to reach you, the GW can reach you quite quickly. Even with Eagle Eye, you only have ~600 range to work with, and gap closers are very prevalent.

1800 range on AA, that is indeed 600 range outside that of any warrior or guard gap closer. However, as i said in another post, positioning is key. One is an idiot if one stay 1800 range ahead of the GW, however staying 1800 on the flank or side means the GW will completely ignore you and move onwards. You are no longer in their direct path. Now the only thing left to fear is glass thieves. But as with most glass thief v glass ranger – first to strike the other will win 70% of the time.

One should not assume that the ranger aka sniper is the target of interesr right away. If the sniper is the target the zerg is after, you failed as a sniper.

Once again ppl look only at what one ranger can do vs many in a setting where the ranger is supposed to lose rather in a setting were you play both sides properly.
To counter a sniper you send your own snipers, not the whole GWEN combo. If you divert a zerg midfight to deal with any single enemy, you fail both as a commander and as a server

full zerk lb rangers work just fine if you’re running a blobby pug zerg against other similar groups. you will get lots of kills

but against any organized group it’s a worthless class as no matter what role you want to play, another class will do it better.

So Ranger questions. Because I’d love to be able to use my Ranger but gave it up.

I’ve tried trapper build but it just seems weak compared to my Ele.

How do youi get 1800 on LB? I thought 1500 was max. Did they increase the range recently?

When I play my Ranger I die more than on any of my other chatacters (Staff Ele, Mes, Thief, Upleveled Necro even). It seems to be because enemies target me more on my Ranger combined with the lack of an “oh crap” escape skill. How do you avoid/compensate for that? (Don’t just say positioning because I do fine on my ele so my positioning is not that bad.)

(Sorry if this is off topic.)

Prysin.8542:

the downside to EN is that they themselves have next to ZERO stability (tornado aint proper stability as it draws too much attention to you).
This means your whole “EN is so epic” combo, while powerful, is more likely to be wiped when caught. Which they will once you immob them.

You are right they have limited stability (as does the Ranger) but they have TONS of condi clears hence why control (stun, daze, etc) is so important.

Prysin.8542:

Also, 60k kills? Really bragging about 60k kills? 3 weeks on an arrowcart – job done.

Firstly not bragging as there are lots of people with way more kills than me. My kill count simply goes towards showing my experience. 60k kills is certainly enough to know how most classes operate including the WcW limited Ranger class. Besides if players could get 60k kills in 3 weeks half the population would be Ultimate Dominators and there are very few of those. Also I don’t play in Tier 1 or 2 and this is a pretty rare Tier 3 run for me. The mid tiers simply don’t have the population to produce big kill stats easily.

Johje Holan.4607:

So Ranger questions. Because I’d love to be able to use my Ranger but gave it up.

I’ve tried trapper build but it just seems weak compared to my Ele.

Because it is weaker. Don’t listen to Prysin who thinks the Ranger is the best class in the game hands down. I cannot tell if he is a troll or delusional.

The Ranger class operates miles below every other class in WvW. It simply is hands down the worst class in WvW. Rangers need a WvW makeover. The shame of it all is that it is one of my favorite PvE classes to play.

Prysin.8542:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Prysin.8542:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Prysin.8542:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Prysin.8542:

the downside to EN is that they themselves have next to ZERO stability (tornado aint proper stability as it draws too much attention to you).
This means your whole “EN is so epic” combo, while powerful, is more likely to be wiped when caught. Which they will once you immob them.

Hence the other part of the GWEN meta: the GW. Can’t wipe them when you can’t get to them.

the GW part cannot reach me, because i am far outside their range. You see, i quite recently where shown something really cool called positioning, and how it could affect my play. It was not too hard to learn, and allowed me to avoid the whole GW part altogether. I strongly recommend you try it out.

If the GW can’t reach you, you can’t reach the EN.

So you’re sitting way back, plinking away ineffectively.

yet i got hard CC on my “way back and ineffective” weapon… and enough DPS to make the EN part spend time staying alive rather then attacking. You wouldnt know this, because finding a proper sniper ranger is about as rare as winning the lottery these days.

Even with proper positioning, if you can hit the 1200 range EN without them being able to reach you, the GW can reach you quite quickly. Even with Eagle Eye, you only have ~600 range to work with, and gap closers are very prevalent.

1800 range on AA, that is indeed 600 range outside that of any warrior or guard gap closer. However, as i said in another post, positioning is key.

So, are you sniping the EN or are you out of range of the GW? You don’t get both.

You know who also positions constantly? GWEN. Especially the eles that can’t take the hits, so are constantly repositioning themselves away from threats. What does this make it nigh impossible to do as a sniper? Position so you can hit the squishies while being out of range of the hammer train.

Banzie.5248:

Healing power scaling tends to go to complete kitten after ~900 though I believe.

Why do you believe this?

Straegen.2938:

Johje Holan.4607:

So Ranger questions. Because I’d love to be able to use my Ranger but gave it up.

I’ve tried trapper build but it just seems weak compared to my Ele.

Because it is weaker. Don’t listen to Prysin who thinks the Ranger is the best class in the game hands down. I cannot tell if he is a troll or delusional.

The Ranger class operates miles below every other class in WvW. It simply is hands down the worst class in WvW. Rangers need a WvW makeover. The shame of it all is that it is one of my favorite PvE classes to play.

i do not believe it to be the strongest class ever invented, however i can with certainty say that it is far from the bottom in WvW. It needs buffs, especially the pets need some sort of increase in sustain vs zerg play. I wish they would add the same “booster” to pets, that they do to living story bosses. IE; more enemies = higher toughness, vitality, damage etc… it would solve a lot of the issues with pets in zergs. The damage that we would lose due to ineffective targeting and pathing wouldnt return, but atleast the utility would be there and you would be able to rely on all pets, not just bears and drakes.

Trapper is far from weaker, but it is different, that is for sure. It simply requires a whole different playstyle, and the choice of armor plays a crucial role. In PvP, you’d want to go for Rabid, Rampager or Carrion, while in WvW you got to run either Rabid or Dire. Anything else will get you smashed instantly. Weapon choice also matters. In PvP you’d want to run SD + AT. While in WvW, ST and GS would be more likely to keep you alive, atealst in a zerg.

Prysin.8542:

i do not believe it to be the strongest class ever invented, however i can with certainty say that it is far from the bottom in WvW

I struggle to come with a weaker class. In a recent Dev poll asking which class should have a rework the Ranger won hands down.

That said, I think the key to fixing the ranger is mobility both in fight and out. The ranger class should be the most mobile class in the game and full of evasions. It is the one mechanic that would fit it like a glove. The class is already capable of being slippery but it is an awkward slippery unlike the thief or warrior. This would certainly bring me back to the class in WvW. I would also rework the pet to work more like banners but I know that is asking too much.
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