Discussion for WvW
1) Why is WvW so low on the forums? The Living World is third. Why is WvW below Game and Lore Discussion?! It’s a huge part of the game. Why does it not have more precedence?
2) Map Changes – What are we in? A War! Landscaping changes in a war. Do you think that the Civil War was fought on the same 4 fields for 4 years? NO. I’m not saying change the maps every other week, but I feel that changing the maps once a year would be a bare minimum. Change the landscape. Change how the towers/camps/keeps/castles positioned and situated.
3) Get rid of Edge of the Mists – This has just become the solution to the Queensdale train being changed. No one is learning their class by just zerging with 50+ people and capping everything and gaining xp. It’s newb mode. It has no WvW oriented tactics and is just a giant karma/xp train.
4) Where is some new siege?? So you are telling me that the people of Tyria have not come out with any new ideas in almost two years of war? Oh please…. Here are some siege ideas:
Ladders – Why can ladders not be built to scale walls? One person at a time funnels up and it takes maybe 3 seconds per person. That would be 30s for ten people to get up a wall. Plus, introducing ladders would really bring back the idea of defense. It would require people to have to actively defend their towers and keeps rather than just keeping eyes out for white swords. Ladders would also be a great solution to small havoc squads. Not everyone’s systems can handle some of these giant zergs and not everyone enjoys zerg farming.
Explosives – Engineers have bombs. There is gun powder. Dumping supply into a larger bomb to blow away at a wall or gate is perfectly viable! Yeah, the bomb would have to be built on sight and would need a decent amount of supply if it was going to take a good chunk away, but lets be more creative than just the catas and rams for the next 5 years.
Catapulting Asurans – Because why not?! LOL We can hurl rocks, surely we can hurl an Asuran across a wall? (This one is just more comical than anything)
Grappling Hooks – We have ballistas… Why can they not shoot a hook up onto a wall and people climb the rope?
I’m sure there are some other really good ideas…. Post them below!
5) Get rid of the giant zerg mentality. Make it to where people are going to have to defend their things if they want any chance of winning that week. Sure PPT is nice and all, but this promote karma farming and just blobbing to take as much as possible. Make it to where the longer a camp/tower/keep/castle has been held is how points are added on. Maybe a camp that was just capped moments before the tick gives zero points but a camp that has been held for over an hour gives maybe 30 points. It rewards the servers who take pride in holding and defending their stuff! Plus, it really promotes dividing forces and holding enemy strongholds for as long as possible rather than just coming in and “getting it for the tick.”
6) Camps need better upgrades. Camps can be capped so quickly that it is ridiculous. Even fully upgraded camps can be taken by a group of ten before swords even pop. Camps need defenses other than a few guards. How about a small wall wooden wall upgrade that can be dpsed down in a timely manner but is going to offer some resistance to any size group that is wanting to take a camp. Make it to where a camp has a third and fourth tier and can hold 500 supply. Sure, people have to pay in order to upgrade it and it would take time for an upgrade like that, but it goes back to the previous point of getting more points based on how long something is held rather than everything being equal despite how long it has been held.
7) Get rid of Outnumbered. What were you thinking when making that? lol It’s a pity buff.
8) Merge the bottom servers into the larger servers and cut back your max amount of servers. You do NOT have as many people playing this game as you have accounts that have been bought. You need to just get rid of a few servers until you can get a much higher consistent player base.
There are plenty more ideas and suggestions out there. WvW needs a big change! This was THE reason why I bought and play Guild Wars 2 and I do not want it to be the reason why I quit Guild Wars 2 as well. We WvWers want a changing world too just like the PvE world is changing. We are a part of Tyria as well! We’re not asking to be a part of the Living Story. NO. We don’t want that. We just want the attention we deserve.
Post your ideas and suggestions in an educated manner below! I’m looking forward to seeing the other ideas from everyone! I know there will be better ones than what are posted above!
Some great ideas there. Too bad that it would take years for Anet to be able to implement just one of them. If it takes them 1 year to make just one new WvW map…
[HUE]
Post your ideas and suggestions in an educated manner below! I’m looking forward to seeing the other ideas from everyone! I know there will be better ones than what are posted above!
What’s the point, unless you’re planning on developing a WvW-type game yourself. Anet’s certainly not going to do anything.
As a player who is focused on WvW as their preferred game mode, I agree that we could use some love from Anet to spice up our experience.
I think though for this type of post to be taken seriously by Anet we need to drop the attitude of superiority that many WvWer’s have towards PvE players. Calling players that enjoy PvE as their preferred game mode “scrubs” is certainly not the way to show that this appeal is coming from a reasonable position.
Also, denigrating EoTM is not conducive to being heard by Anet. I personally dislike EoTM very much because I am the type of WvW player that seeks out smaller more skill based fighting rather than massive “karma-train” zergs. The sheer amount of players that engage in the EoTM zergs totally validates that it is a valuable map because many people clearly enjoy it.
We should acknowledge that Anet has put in some real time on WvW with EoTM, WvW ranks,Traps, Removing Orbs and then replacing them with the Bloodlust objectives. As well as just general polish and mechanic changes. These things take serious time and more testing than in PvE, I would imagine, since there is no issue of balance there.
Hopefully if we approach this from a reasonable and mature perspective we might actually be heard. We WvWer’s as a community have shown that we like to cry an awful lot about very little and that we often times are very unreasonable.
I personally favor the idea of new siege types, map changes and anything that can bring more variety to the WvW experience. I am not in favor of any server merging as I think this would increase zerging and I do not enjoy that myself.
Vig of [dO]
(edited by Vigrith.8136)
I am quoting this from a deve, “don’t conflate a lack of updates that you personally like with a lack of updates.”.
Founder & Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International Guild
Henge of Denravi Server
www.gw2time.com
Henge of Denravi Server
www.gw2time.com
You have two options it seems… live with it or leave it. Just like a bad relationship, your partner isn’t going to change their spots no matter how many times they say they will.
In this case, ANet doesn’t seem to think anything is wrong and by staying we are essentially saying the same thing.
Sarcasm For Hire [SFH]
“Youre lips are movin and youre complaining about something thats wingeing.”
“Youre lips are movin and youre complaining about something thats wingeing.”
I am quoting this from a deve, “don’t conflate a lack of updates that you personally like with a lack of updates.”.
In absolute terms, there has been a lack of updates. As for updates that most WvW players like, even fewer.
Oh, I did say PvE scrubs. lol It’s how it comes out every time I mention them. Just how I see the PvEers I suppose.
But, why just assume that Anet is going to not do anything major because that is all they have ever done? EotM was something that I’m pretty sure was thought up over night and spit out the next morning. WvW ranks should have been there from the very beginning. Should not have been implemented a few months later. Why should we be forced to live with it when PvE gets to cry that they want more and they get it? Like Lord Kuru said, there has been a giant lack of updates/change in WvW.
And on a side note, I named this thread CDI Discussion for a “New” WvW and it was changed. So that shows that there is someone somewhere looking at the WvW forums.
1) Why is WvW so low on the forums?
Don’t know and don’t know that it’s that important. Forums need some semblance of organization; where something falls on a forum is not always indicative of it’s relevance/importance.
2) Map Changes
A dev recently stated that a new map would take upwards of a year (or more) to create. Not likely going to see any new WvW maps in our lifetime.
However, a suggestion I’ve seen more than once on the forums now is to simply use the PvE maps. There’d be very little development effort needed to convert the current PvE forts into WvW forts and add a few supply camps.
To address the criticism that such maps would be imbalanced, I’d counter with the following:
1) Make the PvE maps the new borderlands maps. Each server would have the same advantages/disadvantages. Individually, the maps may be imbalanced, but would balance out when taken as a whole between all three iterations of the maps.
2) One of the forum posts advocating using the PvE maps took an informal poll. The majority of players responded they would put up with imbalanced maps if it meant getting some new ones.
3) Get rid of Edge of the Mists
Disagree. Keep EotM so the karma training zerglings play there rather than bringing their plague to real WvW.
4) Where is some new siege??
The new siege suggestions are creative; until incentives are given for defense, though, the last thing we need is to make it even easier to break into the already-too-easy-to-break-into houses of cards that pass for towers and keeps in WvW.
That said, I’d LOVE to see Asura-pults; LOL !!!
5) Get rid of the giant zerg mentality.
Anything to make alternative forms of play equal in value and reward to zerging gets a thumbs up from me. I don’t want to eliminate zerging, though, so much as I want to see defending, building, repairing, upgrading, escorting, scouting, roaming, ninja-capping, havoc-squading, and open-field PvP-ing given the same incentive and consideration as has been given to the zerg.
6) Camps need better upgrades. Camps can be capped so quickly that it is ridiculous. Even fully upgraded camps can be taken by a group of ten before swords even pop. Camps need defenses other than a few guards. How about a small wall wooden wall upgrade that can be dpsed down in a timely manner but is going to offer some resistance to any size group that is wanting to take a camp. Make it to where a camp has a third and fourth tier and can hold 500 supply. Sure, people have to pay in order to upgrade it and it would take time for an upgrade like that, but it goes back to the previous point of getting more points based on how long something is held rather than everything being equal despite how long it has been held.
Building walls around camps I don’t think will help much. It won’t really slow down a zerg by a significant enough degree while punishing smaller parties and soloists.
7) Get rid of Outnumbered.
No opinion one way or the other.
8) Merge the bottom servers into the larger servers and cut back your max amount of servers.
No thank you. I’ve spent 2 years on the same server building friendships among a great community. I look forward to that continuity of seeing familiar “faces” when I log in, knowing our strengths and weaknesses, and how to cooperate and coordinate effort with seasoned veterans of WvW who I’ve come to know over the past 2 years. A merger would destroy that community. Rather than merge, figure out a better method for evenly distributing population.
So many souls, so little time. ~ Kraag Deadsoul
1) Players in combat mode may not resurrect defeated allies.
2) The gates of towers, keeps, and Stonemist Castle upgraded to the “Fortify” state (T3) can not be damaged by player skills. Only siege weapons can deal damage to these gates.
3) World Score points are awarded to the server which succeeds in capturing an actively defended objective. Actively defended is defined as at least one player who belongs to the world which owns the objective having been present within the objective’s sphere of influence (the “Defend the X” event radius) at any point during the current siege; they do not have to be present at the moment of capture. Each objective awards a base amount of World Score points on capture plus additional World Score points for each completed upgrade built at the objective.
4) No World Score points are awarded to a server for capturing undefended objectives (PvDoor will award nothing).
5) No personal rewards (loot, experience, karma, etc.) are given to players for capturing undefended objectives. The current rewards for capturing supply camps, towers, keeps, and Stonemist Castle will only be given out when capturing an actively defended objective (per the definition given in #3). To give even greater incentive for attacking actively defended fortifications, perhaps scale up the rewards based on the number of upgrades built at the objective.
6) The rewards for defeating real players are substantially increased over their current level.
7) World Score points are awarded for each player defeated in combat by default rather than being an award associated with the Bloodlust Buff. Maybe even give a bonus for stomps; sending a player to defeat without stomping awards 1 World Score point, stomping awards 2 World Score points.
8) Supply camps, towers, keeps, and Stonemist Castle no longer earn World Score points for the owning server unless upgrades are built there. The amount of World Score points earned every 15 minutes (PPT) will scale with the number of upgrades; the more upgrades built, the more PPT an objective earns.
9) For each “Defend the X” event completed at an actively defended supply camp, tower, keep, or Stonemist Castle, the owning server earns World Score points. In recognition of the fact that the defenders have the advantage, the World Score points awarded will be a fraction of what the attacker would earn on capturing the objective; a 10-to-1 ratio is suggested as a starting point.
For example, if capturing a keep with some upgrades would award 50 World Score points to the attackers, the defenders will earn 5 World Score points for each “Defend the X” event successfully concluded at the keep. This only applies while there are players belonging to the world which owns the keep actively defending it; the owning world earns nothing if there are no players defending the keep during any 3 minute “Defend the X” event.
The above shifts WvW from passive rewards (earning PPT by sitting on empty, unupgraded objectives while PvDooring) to active rewards for engaging in conflict with real players and/or making investments in and defending one’s holdings while also addressing the issues of karma training and zerging.
So many souls, so little time. ~ Kraag Deadsoul
Catapulting Asurans
Racism is banned from the forums I believe.
The ideas you posted are good, but they all stem from WvW being a secondary gamemode, because that was how it was created. Sure it has been moved up but it still isnt gaining the same popularity as PvE.
Also, WvW has very little income. How much actual money is made through WvW specific things? We have finishers, and thats not even unique to the gamemode.
I’m not trying to be counter-productive, but these things are what are holding us back as WvWers.
We’ve seen many discussions about the maps, you can see the biggest ones here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Proposal-PvP-Map-Rotation-for-Borderlands
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/How-hard-would-extra-maps-be/page/3#post4144537
That second link is the one where a dev notifies us about the development timetable for a new map.
There are lots of things we could do to balance WvW. Personally, I think the first priority should be balancing loot, and i’ll go a little bit deeper with that.
Defending + upgrading offers little to no reward, loot or wxp wise. IF you upgrade a tower, and run yaks and see the upgrade to completion you should receive worthwhile credit upon completion of the upgrade. could scale reward to the amount of supply required to complete the upgrade. Clearly the instant-complete upgrades (second worker, etc) would not offer a reward.
Loot in WvW is poor in comparison to other modes of the game, even EoTM which is a WvW inspired playground to test the megaservers has greatly improved rewards, and sentries that are actually fun to solo.
A priority should be to make sure that there is atleast the potential to earn similar levels of rewards from PvE to WvW. in 6 hours I can make almost 50 gold in PvE, If i’m being very successful in WvW ( lets assume nonstop PVD like what many SEA guilds end up doing) I should be able to make a similar amount of gold.
There should be more incentive to fight
I agree with many of the suggestions that the OP Makes, I’ll just list them:
Camps could use better upgrades
Explosives would be fun
I’ll make an asuran mesmer if you let me catapult on it.
[/quote]
Camps could use better upgrades
Check
Explosives would be fun
Check. Candy. Yes Please.
I’ll make an asuran mesmer if you let me catapult on it.
Plaaahhhh. PH, by that statement you no longer worthy of Asurans. or Norns. or Charr. or Sylvari. Go play with the humans. No catapults for you. I will make lamas and sunffalupaguses and chewbaccas dance on Deadlius’s head. Oh, I do still want catapults though so I can launch players over the walls of SMC and ruin all your little orgami arrow carts n stuffs. Then you will have to sleep with the fishes. good thing there are so many wonderful bodies of water in the wvw maps.
[/quote]
I read your opening and thought “Okay, this isn’t as PwE* as many of them, let’s see what he/she has to say”.
Then as I was reading your numbered points, I was thinking “Ah, kind of a bias toward stacked/stuffed/high population servers”. The point about a fully upgraded camp being able to be taken by only ten people before swords popped made that clear, although there were hints before that. I usually do it on my staff ele with either a warrior or an engineer with me. That’s two people, with the circle completely or almost completely (sometimes you mess up your pull and one of those guards doesn’t get pulled in) finished before swords can pop.
And then finally:
8) Merge the bottom servers into the larger servers and cut back your max amount of servers. You do NOT have as many people playing this game as you have accounts that have been bought. You need to just get rid of a few servers until you can get a much higher consistent player base.
Once again the idea that the too-many-people-on-a-map style of play is the good one, and any servers that don’t manage to reliably inflict blob-lag on their players are good for nothing else but to be strip-mined to prop up the mode of play that has the most players leaving it anyway. Pass.
Some of your lower number ideas aren’t bad, though. I’ll be checking back in.
Trollnado Ele – Ehmry Bay
I have actually been on FA, ET, and now CD, so I have seen it problems with varying levels of population. My biggest pet peave is how the smaller servers who don’t have as much coverage other than NA prime (Like ET) just get demolished solely due to not being able to get their stuff back.
I like Kraag Deadsoul’s idea of the point system. I feel like some servers who just take everything uncontested should not be rewarded. Where is the skill in that? Why should they get the points for a paper tower that no one was defending and required no effort other than to build a couple of rams and sit there. They should get the points after upgrading the objectives successfully based on Kraag’s description above. Also, with the idea of only getting points based on how well you defend/upgrade/assault in each 15:00 minute segment. You would see a lot more strategy involved rather than just running from tower to tower to try and cap. It would require strategy and leadership from the Commander as opposed to someone who dished out some gold to get a shield posted above his head (Not saying all Commanders are bad).
And I do agree that the ladders/hooks/ropes would make it harder on the defenders. Obviously if they did this, it would require people to keep scouting out for their towers and keeping siege up and ready should a group get close enough to the wall. The problem with defending is that there is only ever a fair few people who do it and then they get taken for granted and are expected to do it all the time while everyone else runs and zergs and takes everything. I run a havoc guild, and we always take our turn upgrading and defending on Reset nights. On our other nights, we upgrade/defend as we are needed but are continually on the assault as well. Unfortunately, not everyone has the same idea of WvW as the next guy and the conflicting interests just causes the “I’m online, I can do what I want” mentality.
Good ideas though! I have posted this on my server’s forums already. I encourage everyone to get this out there. If we create a thread that is 10/15/20 pages long, Anet is going to have to respond eventually. Like I said earlier… I already know that someone from Anet is watching. ;P
(edited by Guinness.2704)
Catapulting Asurans – Because why not?! LOL We can hurl rocks, surely we can hurl an Asuran across a wall? (This one is just more comical than anything)
Only when the Asuras die by “fall” damage ;-) (Inb4 suggestion of a parachute)
I have no words. ASURANS will take over the world.
Yours,
Cadmium Tide
P.S. I don’t care if Rolling Stone didn’t like this one. Sometimes a little cheese is a good thing.
“Ladders – Why can ladders not be built to scale walls? One person at a time funnels up and it takes maybe 3 seconds per person. That would be 30s for ten people to get up a wall. Plus, introducing ladders would really bring back the idea of defense. It would require people to have to actively defend their towers and keeps rather than just keeping eyes out for white swords. Ladders would also be a great solution to small havoc squads. Not everyone’s systems can handle some of these giant zergs and not everyone enjoys zerg farming.”
This is a terrible suggestion. What if a mesmer climbed the ladder? What if I told you there are some of us who play this game to fight, not sit AFK in a tower all day.
And you can still take things with very few people. Just being guild catapults, have supply capacity mastery and +5.
WvW is the end game, they never truly realized that…Instead they chose to keep believing that people killing trash mobs with different skins every 2 weeks was the “real end game”.
Mag Server Leader
WvW is the end game, they never truly realized that…Instead they chose to keep believing that people killing trash mobs with different skins every 2 weeks was the “real end game”.
That is very one sided view on GW2.
It would be interesting to see some statistics of popularity of each game mode. For example hours played in WvW, EotM, SPvP, Dungeons, idled in cities.
Judging by the development efforts we can guess living story is the only thing players have interest in. No, I am not envious. Really. Maybe little.
Sulkshine – Mesmer
This won’t hurt [Much]
Ring of Fire
This won’t hurt [Much]
Ring of Fire
3) Get rid of Edge of the Mists
How about this?:
- Remove the enemies from EotM
- Assign new instance for each faction on their own.
- Separate the thing from WvW window and make it a zone on PvE the map.
No more “eotm is imbalanced”, “that guild is ruining eotm”, “why red has the worst corner in eotm” whining. PvE players would feel more at home when there is nothing that could defeat them. Then they can use spreadsheet to optimize their income without any randomness or risk.
Sulkshine – Mesmer
This won’t hurt [Much]
Ring of Fire
This won’t hurt [Much]
Ring of Fire
Catapulting Asurans
Racism is banned from the forums I believe.
The ideas you posted are good, but they all stem from WvW being a secondary gamemode, because that was how it was created. Sure it has been moved up but it still isnt gaining the same popularity as PvE.
Also, WvW has very little income. How much actual money is made through WvW specific things? We have finishers, and thats not even unique to the gamemode.
I’m not trying to be counter-productive, but these things are what are holding us back as WvWers.
Thought Asurans are already used to being projectiles after failed experiments (i know i am). How’s a catapult any different?
I’ve posted ad nauseum about ways to spice life up in WvW. All that’s left is to see anything come to fruition.
- I want to see Edge of the Mists become part of the regular WvW map set. make it like a second Eternal BG and have it on a weekly rotation with score counting towards server rank. That map is so tactically gorgeous but it’s wasted by whatever NC soft exec’s decision it was to turn it into a waiting room at the hospital. No one destroys bridges or sieges towers or prepares meaningful defenses. To be honest I’ve only ever been there 4 times: once when it came out and 3 other times to try to raid it with a guild.
- I want to see the commander collaborative discussion points actually come to fruition. Currently I cannot effectively command a pug zerg because I can’t get them on my server’s voice comms and ANET decided that commanders need to be squelched when they use macros to repeat common commands. It takes too long to type out anything else. If we get more tools to help us command then I’ll be happy here and probably spend another $100 to gem tags for my alts (I’ve spent about $400 on the tags I have now. That almost paid for Devon’s flat screen TV).
Little red Lioka
WvW is the end game, they never truly realized that…Instead they chose to keep believing that people killing trash mobs with different skins every 2 weeks was the “real end game”.
That is very one sided view on GW2.
It would be interesting to see some statistics of popularity of each game mode. For example hours played in WvW, EotM, SPvP, Dungeons, idled in cities.
Judging by the development efforts we can guess living story is the only thing players have interest in. No, I am not envious. Really. Maybe little.
He’s right. What other game mode can support the population that WvW has supported with absolutely no meaningful new content for two years after release.
PvP-type players are actually very self-sufficient and for the most part, create their own endgame. All they need is a small bit of attention (as compared to PvE) to keep things going.
Of course there’s a minimum amount of attention that needs to be given to the game mode before it becomes too dry and stale to keep going. Anet hasn’t met that minimum for a long while now and the drastic decline of the WvW population has reflected that.
WvW is the end game, they never truly realized that…Instead they chose to keep believing that people killing trash mobs with different skins every 2 weeks was the “real end game”.
Because people who have nothing better to do than farm trash mobs for 20-30 hours a week are the same kind of people who spend $100+ a month on cosmetic stuff and Anet has known it from the start.
The sad thing is it will keep working well into the future as long as Anet can keep the mindless grind junkies paying 2-3 times more per month than they ever would on a sub based game.
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WvW is the end game, they never truly realized that…Instead they chose to keep believing that people killing trash mobs with different skins every 2 weeks was the “real end game”.
Because people who have nothing better to do than farm trash mobs for 20-30 hours a week are the same kind of people who spend $100+ a month on cosmetic stuff and Anet has known it from the start.
The sad thing is it will keep working well into the future as long as Anet can keep the mindless grind junkies paying 2-3 times more per month than they ever would on a sub based game.
While I slightly agree with this statement, my personal experience recently has been even the PvE maps are a complete ghost town with tumbleweed rolling through. I am lucky I finished all my achievements in Dry top last week because I have not seen anyone around on that map in days.
I just wish Anet would realize (or maybe NCsoft I should say), that people will only spend money when they remain engaged. As of now, judging by what I see in WvW and PvE people are losing interest fast.
WvW is the end game, they never truly realized that…Instead they chose to keep believing that people killing trash mobs with different skins every 2 weeks was the “real end game”.
Because people who have nothing better to do than farm trash mobs for 20-30 hours a week are the same kind of people who spend $100+ a month on cosmetic stuff and Anet has known it from the start.
The sad thing is it will keep working well into the future as long as Anet can keep the mindless grind junkies paying 2-3 times more per month than they ever would on a sub based game.
While I slightly agree with this statement, my personal experience recently has been even the PvE maps are a complete ghost town with tumbleweed rolling through. I am lucky I finished all my achievements in Dry top last week because I have not seen anyone around on that map in days.
I just wish Anet would realize (or maybe NCsoft I should say), that people will only spend money when they remain engaged. As of now, judging by what I see in WvW and PvE people are losing interest fast.
True. I don’t know if the “megaserver” is broken in Drytop or what the kitten is going on but I’m on BG and I have seen maybe 20 people tops at any given time there since it opened and I’ve never seen such low numbers for a LS area. Maybe it’s the lack of a champ farm or the lack of tangible rewards (uber tank gear received a lukewarm welcome surprising nobody).
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