Guild Wars 2

SkylightMoon.2098: Structured PvP Forums

I can definitely say it really has been two years now and if two years ago I told you and the WvW community who was still here that two years from now, what would your reaction have been? Even when Anet had this whole E-Sports idea that didn’t work out too well, I figured that it at least showed them to be dedicated to an area of the game and that it would get a lot of content. I feel like objectively, even by GW2 standards, has had very little content added especially within the 2nd year of the games history.

The last map we had added for WvW was exactly two years ago, which also around that time, in September I think, we heard the devs talk about new modes. That was a year ago? What have they been doing? Its very dissapointing :/ I don’t think its unrealistic for any MMO that has a developed WvW community to ask for a new mode or just something that is significant. The feature update was nice but when you really think about it, it wasn’t all that much. It blurred the line between PvP/PVE, made UI changes, also made editing your build more convenient, and a reward track(which did give a lot more incentive to do PvP).

On a last note I think one reason this may be which is one reason for a lot of decisions probably made in GW2 is that the devs are really afraid of spreading their playerbase. I think this fear is constantly on the back of the devs minds. Ive heard them mention it many times in the history of GW2 because of their experience with GW1 where it did really affect the game.

But for WvW please.

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054:

SkylightMoon.2098: Structured PvP Forums

I can definitely say it really has been two years now and if two years ago I told you and the WvW community who was still here that two years from now, what would your reaction have been? Even when Anet had this whole E-Sports idea that didn’t work out too well, I figured that it at least showed them to be dedicated to an area of the game and that it would get a lot of content. I feel like objectively, even by GW2 standards, has had very little content added especially within the 2nd year of the games history.

The last map we had added for WvW was exactly two years ago, which also around that time, in September I think, we heard the devs talk about new modes. That was a year ago? What have they been doing? Its very dissapointing :/ I don’t think its unrealistic for any MMO that has a developed WvW community to ask for a new mode or just something that is significant. The feature update was nice but when you really think about it, it wasn’t all that much. It blurred the line between PvP/PVE, made UI changes, also made editing your build more convenient, and a reward track(which did give a lot more incentive to do PvP).

On a last note I think one reason this may be which is one reason for a lot of decisions probably made in GW2 is that the devs are really afraid of spreading their playerbase. I think this fear is constantly on the back of the devs minds. Ive heard them mention it many times in the history of GW2 because of their experience with GW1 where it did really affect the game.

But for WvW please.

To answer your topic question, the good fights are in bronze. Yes, really.

Not map-queuing ones, but there’s room to roll in a large group if you want to, there’s room to havoc, there’s room to solo roam, there’s room for fights, there’s room for siege, there’s room… to do everything you can’t do in a rigid hierarchy and an overstuffed population.

Some silver matchups are also quite fun, I’m told. I certainly enjoyed my time there.

Of course not. They made a non-change by adding EotM and when people reacted negatively, all the staff clammed up and sulked in silence until we get, a year later, someone’s bitter reply about how content we don’t like isn’t the same as no content.

Anybody with the balls to make real changes isn’t on staff, there’s no plan, there’s no commitment.

You have been playing a finished product for 2 (nearly 3!) years.

If you think wvw is just zergs and pvd, then you’re either in T1 NA or don’t play very much.

@non toxic
I’m going to laugh when , yes WHEN, the all the changes that people have been QQing about finally get released. The devs have stated multiple times that they have something in the works, but its not ready to go live yet. So unless they are straight up lying, which they have 0 reason to do so and in doing so would probably cost them their jobs, something IS coming. Its just not ready for launch.

pdavis.8031:

@non toxic
I’m going to laugh when , yes WHEN, the all the changes that people have been QQing about finally get released. The devs have stated multiple times that they have something in the works, but its not ready to go live yet. So unless they are straight up lying, which they have 0 reason to do so and in doing so would probably cost them their jobs, something IS coming. Its just not ready for launch.

You have got to be either joking or totally deluded. There is pretty much zero chance anything is in the works. And why would lying about it cost them their jobs? It keeps people like you strung along.

pdavis.8031:

@non toxic
I’m going to laugh when , yes WHEN, the all the changes that people have been QQing about finally get released. The devs have stated multiple times that they have something in the works, but its not ready to go live yet. So unless they are straight up lying, which they have 0 reason to do so and in doing so would probably cost them their jobs, something IS coming. Its just not ready for launch.

I hate to be a downer, but if they had so many great things in the works, what reason do they possibly have for not telling anybody anything about them?

Oh that’s great, they are working on things. I’ve heard that line for almost 2 years now, so what have they been working on? What have they done? There’s almost zero information given from the staff about WvW. There is no contact between staff and players, other than them asking for our videos to help promote the dying WvW population, I haven’t seen but 2 Dev posts in the WvW section of the forums this week. That is abysmally low.

I can hire 5 people to constantly tell everyone that stuff will eventually happen, but that doesn’t mean anything will ever happen.

pdavis.8031:

So unless they are straight up lying, which they have 0 reason to do so and in doing so would probably cost them their jobs, something IS coming. Its just not ready for launch.

They have every reason to lie, if there really is nothing being worked on.
Two years of being told they are working on this that or the other, and two years of only a few bug and glitch fixes. Imagine if they straight up and told us “Sorry we’ve been lying, we’ve not been working on WvW as we dont think it’s worth it”. How many players do you think this game will lose?!

As for costing them their jobs, you should read up on that as well and you’ll be surprised at what goes on apparently.

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054:

Imagine if they straight up and told us “Sorry we’ve been lying, we’ve not been working on WvW as we dont think it’s worth it”. How many players do you think this game will lose?!

1%, if that. The reason why so much is being put into PvE is because most of the WvW population has already walked.

I’m not sure there’s much they can do without spending years on it, either. Without a system that allows guilds and alliances to make their own stuff and build empires, it’s just a bigger and more complicated version of the point-capping bore of PvP. The remaining players make WvW somewhat interesting despite the system being fundamentally flawed.

1% of 1 million is still 10,000 players!

pdavis.8031:

@non toxic
I’m going to laugh when , yes WHEN, the all the changes that people have been QQing about finally get released. The devs have stated multiple times that they have something in the works, but its not ready to go live yet. So unless they are straight up lying, which they have 0 reason to do so and in doing so would probably cost them their jobs, something IS coming. Its just not ready for launch.

Lord Krall bought a new account?

NonToxic.9185:

Of course not. They made a non-change by adding EotM and when people reacted negatively, all the staff clammed up and sulked in silence until we get, a year later, someone’s bitter reply about how content we don’t like isn’t the same as no content.

Anybody with the balls to make real changes isn’t on staff, there’s no plan, there’s no commitment.

You have been playing a finished product for 2 (nearly 3!) years.

Look at this guy, hes so lost and have no idea what hes saying that he thinks the game is almost 3 years old while its not even 2.

This thread replies makes me laugh, you bought a game 2 yeas ago witch by then was totally worth, since that they haven’t charge you not a single penny to add contents and yet a massive of them has been implemented, and you still think that you have the right to bittch about it, oh god!

thiagoperne.7340:

NonToxic.9185:

Of course not. They made a non-change by adding EotM and when people reacted negatively, all the staff clammed up and sulked in silence until we get, a year later, someone’s bitter reply about how content we don’t like isn’t the same as no content.

Anybody with the balls to make real changes isn’t on staff, there’s no plan, there’s no commitment.

You have been playing a finished product for 2 (nearly 3!) years.

Look at this guy, hes so lost and have no idea what hes saying that he thinks the game is almost 3 years old while its not even 2.

First beta was in December of 2011, if you want to count the wider beta in February of 2012 as the start point even that is more than 2 years old (and equally close to 3 as it is 2). We weren’t all born yesterday, chum.

Heralding no fees as a redeeming quality of a criminally mismanaged game holds no water when the majority of the releases in the world do not charge a fee. Keep holding out for those greener pastures…

pdavis.8031:

@non toxic
I’m going to laugh when , yes WHEN, the all the changes that people have been QQing about finally get released. The devs have stated multiple times that they have something in the works, but its not ready to go live yet. So unless they are straight up lying, which they have 0 reason to do so and in doing so would probably cost them their jobs, something IS coming. Its just not ready for launch.

You have to understand that those statements have been made time and time again over the past couple years, with very little to show for it. As much as I want them to have a bunch of updates coming soon to WvW, it’s become very difficult to believe. I’ll link to a couple of quick examples to help explain why the community is so pessimistic:

Devon Carver on the Future of World vs. World – June 5, 2013
WvW achievement changes – August 25, 2013

These may not be the most important issues (aside from the scoring section in 1st link), but it shows that these kinds of statements have been made before. If they weren’t able to implement them, or are no longer planning to, then fine, at least update us. But we don’t receive any kind of communication on this subforum, making it hard to feel anything but ignored.

lept.4692:

Devon Carver on the Future of World vs. World – June 5, 2013

OMG that blog post has such great stuff in mind from the sounds of it! And it’s all coming Soon™ right?

lept.4692:

WvW achievement changes – August 25, 2013

Problem is that a simple solution has already been pointed out. Ditch the old set of WvW achievements, create new one with players being given their levels from the old ones, or even simpler just start from zero again!

Lord Kuru.3685:

It keeps people like you strung along.

Towards what end? It’s not like they are getting subscription fees while we’re waiting with bated breath for WvW updates. Nor is there the constant introduction of new tiers of gear that we must chase, or even WXP traitlines. There is literally nothing stopping people from taking a break from WvW or even GW2 as a whole, and waiting for updates to return to the game.

Visiroth.5914:

Lord Kuru.3685:

It keeps people like you strung along.

Towards what end? It’s not like they are getting subscription fees while we’re waiting with bated breath for WvW updates. Nor is there the constant introduction of new tiers of gear that we must chase, or even WXP traitlines. There is literally nothing stopping people from taking a break from WvW or even GW2 as a whole, and waiting for updates to return to the game.

Statistics. People not playing the game or following it don’t buy gems. Let’s say on the lowest of low ends that 1% of players buy gems. If they can keep even 10k people baited and waiting for WvW, statistically 100 of them will buy gems. There is also the added social factor, friends will play what their other friends are playing. If they can keep people playing GW2 they can thus have the chance at increasing population and once again gem sales. Then of course we have the word of mouth portion of this. If they say they have stuff coming it calms the playerbase down and lowers the amount of negative word of mouth, however ArenaNet has passed the tipping point of promising this too much and it’s now a negative. You of course can see the effects of this not only here but on other forums.

NonToxic.9185:

thiagoperne.7340:

NonToxic.9185:

Of course not. They made a non-change by adding EotM and when people reacted negatively, all the staff clammed up and sulked in silence until we get, a year later, someone’s bitter reply about how content we don’t like isn’t the same as no content.

Anybody with the balls to make real changes isn’t on staff, there’s no plan, there’s no commitment.

You have been playing a finished product for 2 (nearly 3!) years.

Look at this guy, hes so lost and have no idea what hes saying that he thinks the game is almost 3 years old while its not even 2.

First beta was in December of 2011, if you want to count the wider beta in February of 2012 as the start point even that is more than 2 years old (and equally close to 3 as it is 2). We weren’t all born yesterday, chum.

Heralding no fees as a redeeming quality of a criminally mismanaged game holds no water when the majority of the releases in the world do not charge a fee. Keep holding out for those greener pastures…

Well maybe for you “a finished product” includes beta, maybe not for everybody else.

And what is all about the philosophy lol, yea it’s not hard to figure the majority releases does not charge fee, neither to understand any of them gets nearly close as good as gw2.

To haters who think T1 is all PVDs, as an ocx/sea player, I’ve PVDed in bronze more times in 1 day with four people than I had in an entire month in T1.

General experience for a casual player:

First months: AWESOME! freaking AWESOME!
After 3 months: So i leveled to 80, did my completion and ran all dungeons a couple times and slayed these worldbosses after waiting too long for the event to start and also turned down a bit because of random Dc’s making me want to spend my time in a better way.

Let’s secify the intrests in the game.
PvE: Pretty consistent updates and something new and shiney to look forward to and EotM if you are a bit bored
sPVP: Some updtaes, quality of life and a new map, team arena and some new gamemodes coming along.
WvW: Bug updates every major patch, removal of the one thing making the maps interesting (Orb), added the ruins and an area for GvG. rest is quality of life. Seasons and wxp is considered a nice feature but nothing more.

So after 6 months what is left to do?
I leveled my characters that i wanted to level, I tried for an legendary but precursors are…. rare., I went and signed up for a wvw guild and spending my time there now.

After 9 months:
WvW is becoming stale, running in a group is fun, but because of unbalanced matchups and general zerg tactics, im switching to WvW roaming and havoc groups.

*After one year: * WvW is stale, pve doesn’t draw me unless i get an easy shiney skin and the dungeons are ony run to get some loot or gold when needed.

So what is left to do?

The roaming and havoc teams made me yearn for balance, some proper balance..
So i start off seriously doing some Spvp.. hotjoin first but quickly swap to soloQ because.. just because..

After a couple of months of soloQ the realization creeps in thast this gamemode is also becoming to familiar, stale even. Coming to a point where it’s playing while filling out tax returns.
So after 1 year and six months trying out teamQ soloQ Wvw, pve etc.. i realize i had a good bang for my buck and it’s time to move on to something more ..consistent..

I turn back to Dota2 and download some random games trying to regain my enthausiasm for gw2. still following every update hoping for a change to the gamemodes i enjoyed thoroughly.

please make it so!

Is WvW ever gonna be more than Zergs and PvD?

Nope.

@all the responses to my post

No I am definetly NOT Lord Krall :P

I do enjoy the game, and WvW, and don’t feel that QQing about not hearing from the devs on what is being worked on, having no word about anything, having a new game mode put in place (yes, EotM IS part of WvW) and minor updates and bug fixes is NOT a constructive way to go about things. I tend to be VERY pessimistic about everything, yes the lack of info/stuff being done, is a point of irritation for me, but everyone coming together and raging against those who try to hold on to hope that the devs are trustworthy, and WILL do what they say does nothing but foster the frustration and anger that everyone is feeling about these matters. Anger, in any form, is infectious. With a thread full of like minded people all angry about something only breeds more anger, and anyone saying any differently is “delusional”. If you wish to feed off your own anger, and continue to get more upset with it, that is your perogative. I am just trying to bring a small voice of reason, and a change of perspective to the discussion.

T2 is full of pickup fights. I routinely fight in 1v1, 5v5, etc size fights. I cannot imagine going below T2 for skirmish fights now. I could spend hours flipping camps in T4 outside of NA prime and not see a soul.

pdavis.8031:

(yes, EotM IS part of WvW)

It is not WvW because it is not World versus World. It’s CvC, Color versus Color, completely lacking the core of WvW which is organized, long-term server vs server fights.

Jamais vu.5284:

pdavis.8031:

(yes, EotM IS part of WvW)

It is not WvW because it is not World versus World. It’s CvC, Color versus Color, completely lacking the core of WvW which is organized, long-term server vs server fights.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/february-04-2014/
wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Edge_of_the_Mists
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-edge-of-the-mists-a-new-map-is-coming-to-wvw/

Officially it IS part of WvW. While the wiki can be edited by anyone, both of the links on the guildwars 2 offical site refer to it as being a part of the mist war and WvW.

Wvw is about scouting, siege refreshing and comunication. Usualy it’s done by few player who sacrifice their time and fun so much more others plalyers(zerg) can think are winning the week match pvding. No love for those who, maybe, stand in home bl waiting for the storm coming or in the upgraded keep ready to call for the zerg when the enemy knocks at the door but they are ones who make the difference.

pdavis.8031:

Jamais vu.5284:

pdavis.8031:

(yes, EotM IS part of WvW)

It is not WvW because it is not World versus World. It’s CvC, Color versus Color, completely lacking the core of WvW which is organized, long-term server vs server fights.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/february-04-2014/
wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Edge_of_the_Mists
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-edge-of-the-mists-a-new-map-is-coming-to-wvw/

Officially it IS part of WvW. While the wiki can be edited by anyone, both of the links on the guildwars 2 offical site refer to it as being a part of the mist war and WvW.

You are telling me it’s WvW because it’s (called) WvW. You are begging the question. And also confusing nomenclature with substance. I give you a D for citing sources, atleast.

Dancing Face.4695:

Wvw is about scouting, siege refreshing and comunication. Usualy it’s done by few player who sacrifice their time and fun so much more others plalyers(zerg) can think are winning the week match pvding.

Once I hit gold, I started sieging, scouting and refreshing. While it isn’t directly rewarding, I find it to be passively engaging. It is sort of like playing Solitaire.

It is pretty thrilling when one person can thwart an almost certain loss. Course there is a lot of running between towers with no action for those moments.

See Napoleon’s military campaign
See Caesar’s miliatary campaign
See WW1 & 2
See Battle of Troy
See Battle of Themopoly
See any medieval war anything.
See any war ever in existence.

In all of these examples above, you can see 1 side having a large structured force (ie – zerg) typically tactically attacking a smaller force.

Would you like to go back in time an ask these folks to stop zergimg and using siege against one another?

Assassin X.8573:

See Napoleon’s military campaign
See Caesar’s miliatary campaign
See WW1 & 2
See Battle of Troy
See Battle of Themopoly
See any medieval war anything.
See any war ever in existence.

In all of these examples above, you can see 1 side having a large structured force (ie – zerg) typically tactically attacking a smaller force.

Would you like to go back in time an ask these folks to stop zergimg and using siege against one another?

And here I was hoping for the ever-popular car analogy…

Assassin X.8573:

See Napoleon’s military campaign
See Caesar’s miliatary campaign
See WW1 & 2
See Battle of Troy
See Battle of Themopoly
See any medieval war anything.
See any war ever in existence.

In all of these examples above, you can see 1 side having a large structured force (ie – zerg) typically tactically attacking a smaller force.

Would you like to go back in time an ask these folks to stop zergimg and using siege against one another?

If we are going to go this route of using real life then it’s live by the sword die by the sword time. So obviously we need to institute hunger, fatigue, weather, permadeath, resources, etc. Walls and doors will have to take weeks to break down. Damage of course won’t be able to be healed and any major attack is going to kill, warriors flame AOE will destroy large groups of people. We will need collision detection and friendly fire as well.

A game like that would fail extremely quickly. This is a game, not real life. As such the mechanics are there to promote fun and zergs aren’t that fun. There is a reason that real wars are fought with numbers of resources, people don’t like dying and they will do whatever they can to not die. Of course more modern wars have weapons that can allow a few people to take out an entire zerg(see machine guns in WW1/2, napalm/cluster bombs Vietnam/korea, Nukes). In GW2 there are no real mechanics that allow 1-5 people to kill a zerg of 50+, unless maybe you blow up a bridge in EotM with 50 people on it.

This game can be more than whoever has the most people wins, in fact it has to or WvW will simply continue to die like it has been.

Jamais vu.5284:

pdavis.8031:

Jamais vu.5284:

pdavis.8031:

(yes, EotM IS part of WvW)

It is not WvW because it is not World versus World. It’s CvC, Color versus Color, completely lacking the core of WvW which is organized, long-term server vs server fights.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/february-04-2014/
wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Edge_of_the_Mists
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-edge-of-the-mists-a-new-map-is-coming-to-wvw/

Officially it IS part of WvW. While the wiki can be edited by anyone, both of the links on the guildwars 2 offical site refer to it as being a part of the mist war and WvW.

You are telling me it’s WvW because it’s (called) WvW. You are begging the question. And also confusing nomenclature with substance. I give you a D for citing sources, atleast.

Its part of WvW because it employes the same structure of play as the main part of WvW, but not tied to your specific homeworld. The players turned it into a karma train. The exact same mechanics are there. Each “world” is in control of a certain territory and its main objective is to capture the other “worlds” territory. To say otherwise is just an excuse to point out that nothing has been added to WvW because EotM doesnt count because those playing the map are doing it differently than intended. Its almost as if people are purposely leaving it put of the equation because doing so fits the answer that they want to see. But that doesnt change the FACT thay EotM IS a part of WvW whether you want to believe it or not.

Distaste.4801:

Visiroth.5914:

Lord Kuru.3685:

It keeps people like you strung along.

Towards what end? It’s not like they are getting subscription fees while we’re waiting with bated breath for WvW updates. Nor is there the constant introduction of new tiers of gear that we must chase, or even WXP traitlines. There is literally nothing stopping people from taking a break from WvW or even GW2 as a whole, and waiting for updates to return to the game.

Statistics. People not playing the game or following it don’t buy gems. Let’s say on the lowest of low ends that 1% of players buy gems. If they can keep even 10k people baited and waiting for WvW, statistically 100 of them will buy gems. There is also the added social factor, friends will play what their other friends are playing. If they can keep people playing GW2 they can thus have the chance at increasing population and once again gem sales. Then of course we have the word of mouth portion of this. If they say they have stuff coming it calms the playerbase down and lowers the amount of negative word of mouth, however ArenaNet has passed the tipping point of promising this too much and it’s now a negative. You of course can see the effects of this not only here but on other forums.

The consensus of this forum is that WvW has not been monetized much in the gem store beyond server transfers. I’d be surprised if 1% of the WvW population is buying gems for WvW purposes and not for their PVE. If you are on the verge of quitting the game, why would you buy gems at that point? I think most people who don’t enjoy playing quit. They don’t stick around for changes that were never given a rollout date, that may never come, that may come but aren’t what they want. The large majority of players may wish for change, but their continued existence in Tyria is not contingent on it.

As far as the social aspect, that is a reason why they don’t need to string people along. If you have friends playing you’re more likely to continue playing regardless of the direction the game takes. Not particular to GW2, but all MMORPGs.

As far as lip service, it is just that. Anyone with life experience should not expect much, especially given that ANet never gave a timeline. As the old saying goes, don’t count your chickens before they hatch.

pdavis.8031:

Its part of WvW because it employes the same structure of play as the main part of WvW, but not tied to your specific homeworld. The players turned it into a karma train. The exact same mechanics are there. Each “world” is in control of a certain territory and its main objective is to capture the other “worlds” territory. To say otherwise is just an excuse to point out that nothing has been added to WvW because EotM doesnt count because those playing the map are doing it differently than intended. Its almost as if people are purposely leaving it put of the equation because doing so fits the answer that they want to see. But that doesnt change the FACT thay EotM IS a part of WvW whether you want to believe it or not.

The concept of WvW was server vs server vs server which EOTM does not adhere to. If I leave and rejoin EOTM there is no guarantee that I will even enter the same instance I was in before which is another central concept of WvW proper.

Even WvW player buy skins!

The fact is that because anet has neglected WvW so much, they havent really thought of producing any WvW items for the gem store!
We cannot even use toys in WvW because of the fact that they have not thought of how they can be misused in WvW, so again they took the easy way out by not allowing us to use any toys in WvW! Which is totally unfair.

But in 12 days I dont think it will matter, we’ll see how they have used our WvW to “big up” WvW claiming how awesome it is; and then we’ll see how many players leave the game…

pdavis.8031:

Its part of WvW because it employes the same structure of play as the main part of WvW, but not tied to your specific homeworld. The players turned it into a karma train. The exact same mechanics are there. Each “world” is in control of a certain territory and its main objective is to capture the other “worlds” territory. To say otherwise is just an excuse to point out that nothing has been added to WvW because EotM doesnt count because those playing the map are doing it differently than intended. Its almost as if people are purposely leaving it put of the equation because doing so fits the answer that they want to see. But that doesnt change the FACT thay EotM IS a part of WvW whether you want to believe it or not.

You cherry pick the similarities and declare EotM a part of WvW, while others emphasize the differences between EotM and regular WvW and conclude otherwise. If there are important and relevant differences, though, then what sense does it make to stomp our feet and insist that WvW and EotM are actually the same? – it erases important differences between the two.

For whatever reason, people seem to think that developer intentions count, or ought to count, for a lot. People argue that because EotM was intended to be an extension of WvW, that it therefore is WvW. First, that’s not how I remember it. I remember EotM being sold as a place to tide over WvW players stuck in map queues. Rather than an extension, then, it was something separate and distinct from WvW – a place to go when you couldn’t get into WvW. Players even regularly acknowledge that EotM is something different from WvW when they spout off in map chat, “kitten this, I’m going back to real WvW!” Second, what a thing is is largely defined by how it’s used. Insisting that EotM is WvW because that’s how it was “intended” is delusional because it ignores the reality of what it’s used for – a karma train. It might have the potential to be played like WvW (although that’s debatable since, as someone else noted, it’s not World vs. World, it’s Color vs. Color), but that doesn’t change the fact that there are important differences between the two.

@xev

So being clearly stated that EotM is a part of WvW by the creators, that it employes the same game play mechanics as WvW means that its not part of WvW because people dont play it like WvW?

Again, people dont want to admit its part of WvW because that would mean that something was added to WvW, and would mean that all the claims that nothing is beimg done, or has been done in 2 years are simply not true.

Noone accepts eotm as part of WvW because it does not constribute to your server in any meaningful way. 400 supplies every now and then is a drop in the ocean

pdavis.8031:

@xev

So being clearly stated that EotM is a part of WvW by the creators, that it employes the same game play mechanics as WvW means that its not part of WvW because people dont play it like WvW?

Again, people dont want to admit its part of WvW because that would mean that something was added to WvW, and would mean that all the claims that nothing is beimg done, or has been done in 2 years are simply not true.

EoTM literally has NO IMPACT on actual WvW dude… its purely used as a k-train and its loaded with uplevels….
EoTM was created purely out of the outcry from the community that queue times for WvW in the higher tier servers were a pain and ppl had to wait for soo long…It’s a cool map, but thats about it, there is nothing WvW related about it man, its more PvE than it is WvW lol.

Let me know when the actual WvW game mode gets an update… been waiting for 2 years, something has to happen soon right?

pdavis.8031:

The exact same mechanics are there. Each “world” is in control of a certain territory and its main objective is to capture the other “worlds” territory.

You know exactly that this is not happening. Unlike real WvW, territorial control does not matter a single bit. Matches are over in 4 hours and players are very likely to always enter a completely different overflow when they join/rejoin. Commanders cap what is nearest instead of what makes territorial sense. That players aren’t even defending the objectives, which is next to offense supposed to be the other half of WvW just adds insult to injury but isn’t even the deciding factor.
You also haven’t addressed that it still isn’t a RvR format in the DAOC or WvW tradition. It has more in common with WoW battlegrounds. It IS battlegrounds. Your argument boils down to: It’s in the same UI menu, meaning it is the same thing. If it had it’s own menu I doubt you’d dispute it’s separate from WvW.

Deli.1302:

If you think wvw is just zergs and pvd, then you’re either in T1 NA or don’t play very much.

Nope just doesn’t play much cause, there are plenty of non zerg fights in T1 NA.

Assassin X.8573:

See Napoleon’s military campaign

Army decimated by harsh Russian Winter. Superior numbers (and Napoleon’s ego) were a liability, not an asset, as trying to move such a large force inexperienced in Winter warfare through harsh terrain and foul weather proved a disaster.

Assassin X.8573:

See Caesar’s miliatary campaign

Frequently outnumbered by the various “barbarian” tribes they faced, Rome’s forces prevailed through superior tactics, strategy, discipline, training, and equipment.

Assassin X.8573:

See WW1

See machine guns versus human wave tactics in the trenches of Europe.

Assassin X.8573:

See WW2

See Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Assassin X.8573:

See Battle of Troy

Small force uses cunning to sneak into Troy where their larger zerg failed.

Assassin X.8573:

See Battle of Themopoly

The Battle of Thermopylae saw ~1,000 Greeks (there were more there than the legendary 300) hold against tens of thousands of Persians for 3 days.

Assassin X.8573:

See any medieval war anything.

You mean all those wars where sieges would last months in an attempt to starve out the inhabitants of a castle because banging your head against the walls and gate was largely futile?

Assassin X.8573:

In all of these examples above, you can see 1 side having a large structured force (ie – zerg) typically tactically attacking a smaller force.

Would you like to go back in time an ask these folks to stop zergimg and using siege against one another?

Ummm…they did use siege against one another; quite frequently. The Romans, for example, were renowned for it.

All your examples support the idea that battles and wars are not necessarily won by whoever has the largest force. I think you just argued the anti-zergers’ position for them. Might also want to review history a bit.

pdavis.8031:

@xev

So being clearly stated that EotM is a part of WvW by the creators, that it employes the same game play mechanics as WvW means that its not part of WvW because people dont play it like WvW?

Again, people dont want to admit its part of WvW because that would mean that something was added to WvW, and would mean that all the claims that nothing is beimg done, or has been done in 2 years are simply not true.

I mean, did you read my post? understand it?