Guild Wars 2

Hey there,

is it just me or has Mesmer become the most ridiculous class in solo roaming (1vs1)? I solo roam in WvW since headstart with all of my toons (engi, ele, thief, warrior). I’ve tried so many different strategies and builds with all chars, but nothing works against decently played mesmers.

Constant clone and phantasm spam with plenty of conditions and burst potential both from melee and range, damage from pets while mesmer is stealthed (no revealed), knockback, block, stealth, blink and perma vigor if you manage to hit them with melee, ridiculous 10s unbreakable control via moa…

I’m sick and tired of fighting them. Maybe its just me and Im to stupid lol. But it took the fun out of solo roaming for me entirely. So Im left with two options: either ignore mesmers at all and run away (stupid) or just quit this game.

Just saying, now flame me to death. ^^

teg

Its just you.

All classes have their own OP PvP oriented WvW builds, just like Mesmer has.

And dont complain about the freakin Moa. Since Anet completely broke the game and added that hidden perma-immobilize trait, Mesmer is nothing because it doesnt really have decent immobilize to trigger it. Alas, daze doesnt break the game… It would have been awesome if daze did something like apply 25 stacks of torment.

Dawdler.8521:

And dont complain about the freakin Moa.

So tell me what to do if you get moa’d from stealth and moa #5 get interrupted? 10s of unbreakable control = game over

Mesmers have been nerfed pretty constantly, they have received a couple of small buffs recently (more to less used functions than anything class changing other than IC change) but nothing that would make them anything like what you said. It’s a class which requires focus to fight 1v1, but I wouldn’t say it’s harder to fight than a decent thief/ele/engine etc.

Are you sure it’s not just a case you have trouble fighting them so are more likely to remember such fights rather than an overall recollation of your roaming? If you really are having trouble, wouldn’t it be better to ask for advice on how to fight them or atleast state what the actual issue is? I know a few people on here would be likely to help out if you have questions, but will also ignore you if you just rant on about a class you don’t know how to fight.

Btw, Moa is normally a really bad skill. Outside certain situations it isn’t likely to be used unless you annoyed the mesmer, they are trolling or they don’t have the best grasp of the class. As a mesmer main I would love so much for that to be removed and actually replaced with something usual…

teg.1340:

Dawdler.8521:

And dont complain about the freakin Moa.

So tell me what to do if you get moa’d from stealth and moa #5 get interrupted? 10s of unbreakable control = game over

Dodge as soon as you are moa’d. Try to put some distance between your opponent and you before using the escape. Take note if they are using a pistol first for the stun (they won’t likely have another stun available).

How do you put distance between your opponent when you get constantly crippled from illusions? How do you survive 10s of moa against a condition mesmer? If you get moa’d at 60% hp with plenty conditions on you, what do you do?

How do you catch a mesmer at melee range while illusions constantly cripple you? How do you put enough pressure on the mesmer while negating heavy damage from phantasms? How do you handle high stealth uptime while illusions put damage on you?

If you actually manage to catch the mesmer at melee range he has plenty of tools: knockback, block, blink, stealth or just evade like crazy with the 5 point minor perma vigor trait. Did you mention that Anet has nerfed perma vigor for plenty of professions recently? So please dont tell me that mesmers were nerfed many times, because so does other professions. Mesmer was buffed actually with the latest patch while others got nerfed hard.

The main problem for me is to put enough damage pressure on the mesmer to force him into defensive mode. Maybe its just my personal problem. Thats the reason of this thread. I want to hear the oppinions of other non-mesmers.

Disclaimer: I don’t play a Mesmer any more, deleted mine a while back. For me personally regardless of the class I’m on they’re the toughest opponent due to the constant pressure they apply and their ability to reset. I agree they have practically every tool in the kitten nal at their disposal barring easy access to swiftness and stability.

However, in my perception, the class is now living up to it’s full potential as described way back pre-release during beta. Are they too strong now, possibly. Furthermore having mained an Elementalist since those days I honestly do not want another class to experience the atrocious treatment we’ve had with an almost constant nerf cycle.

Perhaps tone them down slightly, or rather do some iterative development cycles on the other professions (warrior excluded) to bring them up to par.

Regardless they are the one class I thoroughly hate fighting.

you keep forgetting the fact that balance teams play certain classes and look at what is popular and then boost it.
So far i have come to the conclusion dev’s play : Warrior, Mesmer and Guardian.

Whenever I find difficulty in countering a certain class, I make one of my own and learn that class’s timing and tricks. Mesmers are definately not OP, they require a lot of focus and skill to excell in 1v1.

Moa can fail if the enemy dodges or blocks. Then there’s a ridiculous 120 second regen on that spell if it fails, and by that time the 1v1 is usually over. I only personally use it on perma stealth thieves.

teg.1340:

How do you put distance between your opponent when you get constantly crippled from illusions? How do you survive 10s of moa against a condition mesmer? If you get moa’d at 60% hp with plenty conditions on you, what do you do?

1. Besides iZerker, iLeap and Crippling Dissipation how is it a Mesmer “constantly cripples”?
2. For moa, you can dodge, blind or block it. It’s a one second cast time with big a shiny purple animation. If you’re bad and all the above fails, jump into water. It’ll remove the effect right away.
3. So if the Mesmer is landing all of his condis which you’re not cleansing, has you at half hp AND lands his elite, you still expect to win? What can I do if a Warrior has me stun locked, all of my stunbreaks are on cooldown and I’m also fighting 10 other people while all of my armor is broken?

teg.1340:

How do you catch a mesmer at melee range while illusions constantly cripple you? How do you put enough pressure on the mesmer while negating heavy damage from phantasms? How do you handle high stealth uptime while illusions put damage on you?

1. You can’t. Mesmer mobility OP. huehue
2. Kill the phantasm. Surprise, you can not only dodge a Mesmer’s damage, but you can kill it too! There’s only one trait that applies to phantasms when they die, and the condition meta doesn’t utilise it.
3. Again, kill the phantasm. The only remotely spammable stealth Mesmers have is The Prestige. Bait that cooldown, bait decoy and then they’re in a sticky situation for the next 24 seconds.

teg.1340:

If you actually manage to catch the mesmer at melee range he has plenty of tools: knockback, block, blink, stealth or just evade like crazy with the 5 point minor perma vigor trait. Did you mention that Anet has nerfed perma vigor for plenty of professions recently? So please dont tell me that mesmers were nerfed many times, because so does other professions. Mesmer was buffed actually with the latest patch while others got nerfed hard.

Won’t argue, Mesmers are extremely powerful right now. But then, so are Warriors, Necros, Thieves, Guardians, Rangers (strictly small-scale) and Engis if played well.

teg.1340:

The main problem for me is to put enough damage pressure on the mesmer to force him into defensive mode. Maybe its just my personal problem. Thats the reason of this thread. I want to hear the oppinions of other non-mesmers.

Mesmer opinions are relevant too.

No mesmer in his right mind has Moa Morph on the skill bar in WvW. It’s useful against exactly one player, has a long and easy to see wind up that can be interrupted, and a long cool down.

You get constantly crippled because its hard to avoid killing clones by accident. Most damage skills either cleave or have an aoe dmg effect. Projectiles hit clones if they stand between the target. Bouncing skills easily kill clones. Even many mobility skills (leaps etc) hit clones between the target.

All those skills kill clones accidentally, thus cripple you. Since Crippling Dissipation doesnt have a cooldown, you stack some heavy cripple if you kill 1-3 clones at once.

I have to admit that Moa isnt widely used, but when you get moa’d its a pain in the kitten . Casttime is long, yes. Cast animation is not that easy to see on asuras. But even if you save a dodge/block/evade just in case you get moa’d: you cannot avoid what you cannot see. There’s no counter against moa from out of stealth.

Mesmer needs some tweaking thats for sure, but i wouldnt really say they are any more Overpowered than some of the builds of other classes. You kill the illusions (AoE works VERY well) and they are pretty weak. If you see loads of them running towards you, you know its time to get ready to dodge

I find the best way to kill a Mesmer: Pressure. Don’t stay back, don’t hesitate, go FULL on attack and wait for them to stealth, which they will and then throw down AoE in the location around where they were.

Dont give them any time to adjust, the moment they are out of stealth go in full on again and just keep going away at them, make sure you Target lock them when you know which is the real one, they will only be able to move it 4 times at max – Mass Invis, decoy, The Prestige and Desperate Decoy (Trait) which i rarely see getting used anyway.

If you get them on the run, you have already won as they suck at getting away with just Blink and Portal as options so at this point cripples, chill and such are great ways to stop that

On my Mesmer, i win some and i lose some. That is the way it is. You can’t beat everyone.

teg.1340:

You get constantly crippled because its hard to avoid killing clones by accident. Most damage skills either cleave or have an aoe dmg effect. Projectiles hit clones if they stand between the target. Bouncing skills easily kill clones. Even many mobility skills (leaps etc) hit clones between the target.

All those skills kill clones accidentally, thus cripple you. Since Crippling Dissipation doesnt have a cooldown, you stack some heavy cripple if you kill 1-3 clones at once.

I have to admit that Moa isnt widely used, but when you get moa’d its a pain in the kitten . Casttime is long, yes. Cast animation is not that easy to see on asuras. But even if you save a dodge/block/evade just in case you get moa’d: you cannot avoid what you cannot see. There’s no counter against moa from out of stealth.

You are assuming they are taking Crippling Dissipation, dont. Not every build runs it. yeah i havent seen Moa in WvW at least in months. I still see it in SPvP though

That build is the current cancer of WvW. It doesn’t matter if it is powerful or not, it is one of the least fun builds to play against.

Sepreh.5924:

That build is the current cancer of WvW. It doesn’t matter if it is powerful or not, it is one of the least fun builds to play against.

I love fighting against it, Mostly as its the build that my Mesmer runs – sort of. I played (and won) like 4 duels against Mesmers running that kind of build Yesterday and had great fun doing it.

The builds i dont like fighting against – Thief “Jump into Stealth every 4seconds” builds – Still not quite sure why Thief gets to steal a Fear that is STRONGER than any fear that Necromancers have… Warrior Hammer can be pretty rubbish, it takes no skill to bash all your interrupts and give them loads of confusion though thankfully since the Perplexity nerf i dont see them that often anymore.

On my Mesmer though i LOVE fighting Thieves

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

On my Mesmer though i LOVE fighting Thieves

The sarcasm is strong in this one.

Renny.6571:

The sarcasm is strong in this one.

Its not sarcasm at all, i love fighting them. I had a fight that went on for over 20 minutes in the ruins that was ALOT of fun. When ever he would go stealth, i would stop moving and just wait for him to come out of stealth and with 3 stun breakers He couldnt hold me down long enough to burst me.

I would even wait for my clones to move and move with them to try and confuse him even more. He even reset the fight and changed some of his skills during it and i knew he was still around as my clones and phantasms didnt die.

It was EASILY the best 1 Vs 1 fight i have had, we even went into a group after and was talking about it and our different tactics and everything.

Unlike some people who invite you to a party after you have killed them and all they do is throw abuse and say you are an over powered noob :/

teg.1340:

You get constantly crippled because its hard to avoid killing clones by accident. Most damage skills either cleave or have an aoe dmg effect. Projectiles hit clones if they stand between the target. Bouncing skills easily kill clones. Even many mobility skills (leaps etc) hit clones between the target.

All those skills kill clones accidentally, thus cripple you. Since Crippling Dissipation doesnt have a cooldown, you stack some heavy cripple if you kill 1-3 clones at once.

That’s kind of the point of clone death traits though: to punish melee cleave spam. The radius is 240, so you’re supposed to either be more careful with your melee attacks or kill clones from range. The only clones that will actually move to melee range to hit you are sword clones. Scepter, greatsword and staff clones are ranged and therefore you will only get hit by a clone death trait if you move to melee range and then kill them. Also phantasms are unaffected by there traits so go ahead and cleave them. Oh and you can tell if a Mesmer has traited for clone death as the clone death animation changes and sounds a bit like an engi bomb.

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

No mesmer in his right mind has Moa Morph on the skill bar in WvW. It’s useful against exactly one player, has a long and easy to see wind up that can be interrupted, and a long cool down.

This. It is very rare to see MOA in WvW.

Grenade engineer with perplex runes can destroy a mesmer.

After playing a lot as a Necromancer and Ranger, I still find Mesmers the class that is not maybe the hardest, but certainly most annoying to deal with. I found out that the best tactic vs. Mesmers is to just simply play very defensive and kite a lot. That’s why Mesmers are probably most favored class on 1v1 servers – currently, on restricted areas, without those “OP vit/tough” amulets, they’re kings.
I believe that the most serious bane to mesmer is just kiting. Whenever you can’t pressure them hard enough, disengage, use defensives, whatever. If you prevent stupid Pistol Illusion and Zerker from constantly hitting you with no effort from mesmer himself by just simply moving out of their range, you can eventually put fight on your rules.
Still, despite all crying and whining, Mesmers do hold place in PvP since release. Nothing new, they might be vunerable to conditions, but their mechanics and access to various goodies in the game will never delete the fact, that 1/3 of players in the mists are usually pinkies

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

you keep forgetting the fact that balance teams play certain classes and look at what is popular and then boost it.
So far i have come to the conclusion dev’s play : Warrior, Mesmer and Guardian.

yeah right, thats why they nerfed our cglam builds by around 60%. thats why we are veilbots. yeah we can roam and thats it! tw, veil, portal is all we are in wvw because the devs all play mes right. every dev i’ve seen was either war, necro or guardian. mes has lack of stability lack of speed lack of condi removals. yeah we are a 1v1 class and unless the devs rework our class thats what we will be. veil, veil veil veil veil veil veil!

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Renny.6571:

The sarcasm is strong in this one.

Its not sarcasm at all, i love fighting them. I had a fight that went on for over 20 minutes in the ruins that was ALOT of fun. When ever he would go stealth, i would stop moving and just wait for him to come out of stealth and with 3 stun breakers He couldnt hold me down long enough to burst me.

I would even wait for my clones to move and move with them to try and confuse him even more. He even reset the fight and changed some of his skills during it and i knew he was still around as my clones and phantasms didnt die.

It was EASILY the best 1 Vs 1 fight i have had, we even went into a group after and was talking about it and our different tactics and everything.

Unlike some people who invite you to a party after you have killed them and all they do is throw abuse and say you are an over powered noob :/

Not sure about you but if I cant kill someone after about 2 mins, i normally just bow, they bow, and we go our separate ways.

Fuzzion.2504:

Not sure about you but if I cant kill someone after about 2 mins, i normally just bow, they bow, and we go our separate ways.

Not me, if you attack me either you kill me or i kill you. I dont run from fights. Plus if one of us just gave up and left we wouldnt have had that great fight. The only times i would consder running is when i am seriously out numbered or i can see a zerg coming.

Xavi.6591:

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

No mesmer in his right mind has Moa Morph on the skill bar in WvW. It’s useful against exactly one player, has a long and easy to see wind up that can be interrupted, and a long cool down.

This. It is very rare to see MOA in WvW.

Grenade engineer with perplex runes can destroy a mesmer.

But this is the core of the problem with builds like this. The reason that a grenade engineer can destroy a mesmer (I am taking your word for it as I do not play enginner) is that they are spamming AOE attacks.

This might be an oversimplification of how the game is turning out the way it is, but from what I have seen here is what happened:

At the beginning, we were all running around and playing and learning our respective classes. Life was good. Soon, people realized that there was one mechanic that consistently put people at a distinct advantage over others, invisibility.

For a while, classes that had access to this dominated, especially in WvW roaming. Additionally, one of the classes with access to this mechanic, mesmers, core mechanic is to create clones which clutter the battlefield and if you do not take care of them, can damage you.

So, over time people playing non-invisible classes learned the counter to these types of builds. That counter was spamming AOE. By spamming AOE, you might be able to hit the invisible enemy and for mesmers, could take out the potentially damage dealing phantasms.

Over time, people learned the playstyle “spam aoe” in order to counter these builds that inherently used mechanics that were not fun to play against. Fast forward to the dumbfire patch. Now necros have condition damage that is over the top and have learned to spam AOE. Now, everyone is complaining about AOE spam and condition spam but this was the counter for those builds because conditions would continue to tick even when they were invisible and you increased the chance that you would hit them while invisible by spamming AOE.

Eventually warriors were buffed and were able to spam AOE CC. If you cannot see your target, why not jump around like a kitten spamming CC in an attempt to get down the invisible target.

Everyone complains about builds using AOE spamming techniques. I complain about it too because it sucks to play against. What people forget, though, is that this type of playstyle was necessary for dealing with builds with absurd access to invisibility. Those builds are not fun to fight. Over time, you learn to deal with them but guessing where your target is sucks. It makes the fight one sided and regardless of whether you win or lose, it is not fun.

Now we have a mesmer build that is basically propagating like a cancer in the WvW roaming scene. It is a build that encompasses the features of GW2 that non-trolls despise – condition stacking, passive play through AI, invisibility, cowardly play and a counter that involves spamming AOE. I know that this is fun for the people playing this build and rofl-ing as groups of 3-4 run around spamming AOEs and auto attacks, however for the long term health of the game builds like this should not exist.

PU could use some tweaks due to the high prot/regen uptimes in addition to stealth. A wwwhhhiiilllleeeee back they nerfed something similar with how the regen and prot interacted for standing near a phant because of similar reasons (had literally 100% uptime on both). While it’s not 100% it’s in conjunction with stealth giving small windows which you can attack a defensively buffed Mesmer (which still can have a lot of escape skills on top of that). It’s a bit much.

Rest of Mesmer is fine.

Aberrant.6749:

PU could use some tweaks. Rest of Mesmer is fine.

Agreed. Not all mesmer builds are cheese but PU is.

Sepreh.5924:

Eventually warriors were buffed and were able to spam AOE CC. If you cannot see your target, why not jump around like a kitten spamming CC in an attempt to get down the invisible target.

Warrior cc has been unchanged since launch besides the one second added to Skull Crack but that’s single target. They have actually been nerfed since the Sigil of Paralyzation rounding fix but that effected every class.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Renny.6571:

The sarcasm is strong in this one.

Its not sarcasm at all, i love fighting them. I had a fight that went on for over 20 minutes in the ruins that was ALOT of fun. When ever he would go stealth, i would stop moving and just wait for him to come out of stealth and with 3 stun breakers He couldnt hold me down long enough to burst me.

I would even wait for my clones to move and move with them to try and confuse him even more. He even reset the fight and changed some of his skills during it and i knew he was still around as my clones and phantasms didnt die.

It was EASILY the best 1 Vs 1 fight i have had, we even went into a group after and was talking about it and our different tactics and everything.

Unlike some people who invite you to a party after you have killed them and all they do is throw abuse and say you are an over powered noob :/

Besides disengaging to swap skills, I guess that’s kinda respectable. If I’m not being blind-spammed by a lolfrontstab build, or wittled away rather quickly by a perplexity venom-share p/d, I’m being outskilled by the enormous amount of gap openers I can’t keep up with.

Renny.6571:

Besides disengaging to swap skills, I guess that’s kinda respectable. If I’m not being blind-spammed by a lolfrontstab build, or wittled away rather quickly by a perplexity venom-share p/d, I’m being outskilled by the enormous amount of gap openers I can’t keep up with.

I didnt change my build, traits, skills or anything else during it. He had no choice, he was struggling to get me below 50% and i nearly had him down several times.

He tried with the Bask Vemon but against 3 stun breakers, teleports, stealth and such it didnt work. He then tried Thieves guild, they melted away.

The best way to counter is to act as much like the clones as possible. When they chased her after reappearing – so would i, when she went stealth and they stopped so did i. She wasted Bask Venom on clones SO many times it was great.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Renny.6571:

Besides disengaging to swap skills, I guess that’s kinda respectable. If I’m not being blind-spammed by a lolfrontstab build, or wittled away rather quickly by a perplexity venom-share p/d, I’m being outskilled by the enormous amount of gap openers I can’t keep up with.

I didnt change my build, traits, skills or anything else during it. He had no choice, he was struggling to get me below 50% and i nearly had him down several times.

He tried with the Bask Vemon but against 3 stun breakers, teleports, stealth and such it didnt work. He then tried Thieves guild, they melted away.

The best way to counter is to act as much like the clones as possible. When they chased her after reappearing – so would i, when she went stealth and they stopped so did i. She wasted Bask Venom on clones SO many times it was great.

Acting like clones isn’t useful without a maxed height charr or norn and is still useless against anyone who pays attention to the black smoke effect to know where you are when you unstealth.

glaphen you could still try standing so you’re halfway inside your clones when they go in for a backstab. Mesmer has an abundance of escape skills (utilities and weapon skills). A skilled mesmer should beat a skilled thief in most cases.

glaphen.5230:

Acting like clones isn’t useful without a maxed height charr or norn and is still useless against anyone who pays attention to the black smoke effect to know where you are when you unstealth.

I have Deceptive Evasion as well as 2 stealths, so i can go stealth create a few clones and then stand right in front of one before i come out, that way they try to BS me, i wont get hit

That isn’t acting like clones that’s just abusing AoE limits to block single target attacks and non piercing projectiles which should be a Mesmer basic that too many don’t know how to do.

glaphen.5230:

That isn’t acting like clones that’s just abusing AoE limits to block single target attacks and non piercing projectiles which should be a Mesmer basic that too many don’t know how to do.

Acting like clones is pretty much:

Move when they move
Dont move when they dont move

Mesmers are really good 1 on 1 because they are the DUELING class. Outside of that they’re slow, contribute little to zergs other than “veil 1, pop veil 1 plz” and other gimmicks. The one thing mesmers are very weak against are conditions, even with their torch cleanse and their mantra they are very bad at cleansing. Yeah moa is pretty OP but it can be interrupted/dodged.

Asuka Shikinami.5462:

Mesmers have been nerfed pretty constantly,

LOL

Renny.6571:

3. So if the Mesmer is landing all of his condis which you’re not cleansing, has you at half hp AND lands his elite, you still expect to win? What can I do if a Warrior has me stun locked, all of my stunbreaks are on cooldown and I’m also fighting 10 other people while all of my armor is broken?

You are trying to argument that those skills are balanced by comparing them as balanced as fightin 1v11 battle without armor… That argument do not work at all.

Sepreh.5924:

Now we have a mesmer build that is basically propagating like a cancer in the WvW roaming scene. It is a build that encompasses the features of GW2 that non-trolls despise – condition stacking, passive play through AI, invisibility, cowardly play and a counter that involves spamming AOE. I know that this is fun for the people playing this build and rofl-ing as groups of 3-4 run around spamming AOEs and auto attacks, however for the long term health of the game builds like this should not exist.

Main reason its propagating is due to ANET, mesmers are pigeon holed to roaming only. Every good build has been nerfed, and blackwater/phants are the only ones left…take away those and roaming will suck, so all they will be is a veilbot.

Gahzirra.8639:

Main reason its propagating is due to ANET, mesmers are pigeon holed to roaming only. Every good build has been nerfed, and blackwater/phants are the only ones left…take away those and roaming will suck, so all they will be is a veilbot.

Yep. Everything seems to be nerfed when it comes to Mesmers except the one build everyone screams is “overpowered” You can’t blame the players for playing the only viable build when the ones they were using were nerfed for no reason at all.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Gahzirra.8639:

Main reason its propagating is due to ANET, mesmers are pigeon holed to roaming only. Every good build has been nerfed, and blackwater/phants are the only ones left…take away those and roaming will suck, so all they will be is a veilbot.

Yep. Everything seems to be nerfed when it comes to Mesmers except the one build everyone screams is “overpowered” You can’t blame the players for playing the only viable build when the ones they were using were nerfed for no reason at all.

Mesmer has tons of great viable build options. Shatter, phant, cond, support… not sure what other classes you’ve played but mesmer has more than most. Just take a look around the mesmer subforums for a few mins. if you need help with a build.

Aberrant.6749:

Mesmer has tons of great viable build options. Shatter, phant, cond, support… not sure what other classes you’ve played but mesmer has more than most. Just take a look around the mesmer subforums for a few mins. if you need help with a build.

I have a Mesmer, i have played all of them. The problem is That Phantasm is the “go to” build it is the easiest to play, the easiest to win and that is why it is seen so often, the others as fun as they are simply because they require more work from the player they tend to not want to play them. Same could be said for certain other classes as well…

Shatter can be very strong at times as well, Condi it depends who it is against which ever build (minus support) they are going to be very strong solo and THAT is the problem.

Because they are so strong solo, they aren’t allowed to offer much in Zergs – outside the usual Time Warp, Feedback, Veil and such they are taken for a few select skills. If they didnt have them they would have no use.

Yeah, some 1v1 Mesmer builds are ridiculously overpowered in WvW.

They are undoubtedly the strongest duel class next to Dhuumfire Necros.

My big issue is the rate at which they spam Illusions. A slight nerf in that area would fix a lot of Mesmers balance issues without directly nerfing any skills.

Deceptive Evasion is one of the biggest perpetrators, especially when combined with almost perma-Vigor.

I have a hard time vs Mesmers too, even in small groups I hate them and if there is more than 1 I pretty much just run away.

Dragan.7568:

You are trying to argument that those skills are balanced by comparing them as balanced as fightin 1v11 battle without armor… That argument do not work at all.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Aberrant.6749:

Mesmer has tons of great viable build options. Shatter, phant, cond, support… not sure what other classes you’ve played but mesmer has more than most. Just take a look around the mesmer subforums for a few mins. if you need help with a build.

I have a Mesmer, i have played all of them. The problem is That Phantasm is the “go to” build it is the easiest to play, the easiest to win and that is why it is seen so often, the others as fun as they are simply because they require more work from the player they tend to not want to play them. Same could be said for certain other classes as well…

Shatter can be very strong at times as well, Condi it depends who it is against which ever build (minus support) they are going to be very strong solo and THAT is the problem.

Because they are so strong solo, they aren’t allowed to offer much in Zergs – outside the usual Time Warp, Feedback, Veil and such they are taken for a few select skills. If they didnt have them they would have no use.

I’m actually the opposite way as far as which I play. I get bored quickly with the set it and forget it phant stuffs. Shatter is far more active and has a higher skill cap which I find more fun and rewarding. This kinda stuff is probably also why eng is my fav class to play.

As far as only being taken for utilities in a large group… my thief is jelly that my mes can actually help in a large scale fight that much regardless of the reasons.

95% of duel in OS / WvW i have faced are either Mesmer condi or thieve condi.

and this type of Mesmer is not even that strong in spvp … it pretty much explains that it’s pretty broken here in wvw.

Aberrant.6749:

I’m actually the opposite way as far as which I play. I get bored quickly with the set it and forget it phant stuffs. Shatter is far more active and has a higher skill cap which I find more fun and rewarding. This kinda stuff is probably also why eng is my fav class to play.

As far as only being taken for utilities in a large group… my thief is jelly that my mes can actually help in a large scale fight that much regardless of the reasons.

I dont even play my Mesmer much anymore, Until the class gets some proper balance that make them more than a TW Veil bot in group/zerg situations it is kinda pointless as i would get messages from people just kittening and moaning saying the only reason i killed them was because i wa “Overpowered” this coming from (at the time) interrupt spamming pre-nerf Perplexity Hammer warriors and jump into stealth every 4second thieves….

I play Power necro now (NO! not the Dhuumfire one) I play my own 20/0/20/0/30 build and love it got no stealth so it cant be blamed on that if i win, no phantasms or Dhuumfire, no condition damage mine is at ZERO and i have alot of fun with it

95% of duel in OS / WvW i have faced are either Mesmer condi or thieve condi.

Interesting, i’m meeting nothing but condi warriors and condi necros. We conclude, both our experiences aren’t representive at all ^^

As a shatter mesmer, i can still fight and sometimes win vs PU despite my lack of condition removal. Their main damage comes from clones dying so try to avoid that. Clone AI is generally very dumb, so use LoS to get them to stay away from the mesmer and you.

Also, in over 1 year of GW2 i have never, not even once, died to Moa in a 1v1. I’d suggest you to play mesmer for a while so you experience their strengths and weaknesses.

PU could still need a bit of tweaking, after all. It was a good trait even before the buff (it was triggering every 3s back then instead of every second).

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

I dont even play my Mesmer much anymore, Until the class gets some proper balance that make them more than a TW Veil bot in group/zerg situations it is kinda pointless as i would get messages from people just kittening and moaning saying the only reason i killed them was because i wa “Overpowered” this coming from (at the time) interrupt spamming pre-nerf Perplexity Hammer warriors and jump into stealth every 4second thieves….

I play Power necro now (NO! not the Dhuumfire one) I play my own 20/0/20/0/30 build and love it got no stealth so it cant be blamed on that if i win, no phantasms or Dhuumfire, no condition damage mine is at ZERO and i have alot of fun with it

Yes, because Necro power builds arent at all OP.