Guild Wars 2

Warriors can spec for 16.75 seconds of point-contesting invul. That’s even longer than the time it took to kill a bannered lord, so you can still make your pointless gestures in already lost fights to your heart’s content. You could even slot snow leopard to nike your way to the lord’s room faster.

It was one of the best changes they could make. Rezzing a completely dead was never the intention of a Battle Standard. People that cry about strategy and defending – a big “:D orly?”, with the siege disabler you have now one of the mightiest things in game to troll every attacker for far longer than a single person could do with a banner, so just shhh.

I disagree with the change. With the golem buffs, it just becomes too easy to steamroll smaller servers.

The solution suggested previously was to allow bannering the lord, but prevent the cap progress from resetting. I think that’d be a much better compromise than simply removing lord bannering altogether.

Awesome change.

Now those who are playing with more dedication will not bekittenbecause of siege disabler and because they putted time in scouting etc and stopping the enemie from entering lord room is now way more important.

And those who just map jumps with whole blob without scouts or any strategy will be punished.

All in the favor of the Ktrain. Should have given it a diminishing return or an internal cooldown instead of disabling it at all. I know it was a bit broken but it surely gave some nice fights around.

YARRR. The Karma train gets stronger. Maybe in future we do not have to fight anymore other people just kill npc’s. Well done Arenanet.
Could you also consider to remove the Gates so we don’t have to waste our time there?

Greets ’n kisses

MiniMe.1960:

YARRR. The Karma train gets stronger. Maybe in future we do not have to fight anymore other people just kill npc’s. Well done Arenanet.
Could you also consider to remove the Gates so we don’t have to waste our time there?

Greets ’n kisses

This

Finaly time for my field medic ranger to shine with the quickness ress!!

Mishi.7058:

Actually prior to my break they happened due to groups being very organized and very little bannering. However people used tactics, along with siege, and could drive off the enemy, or defeat the defenders and secure the objective. Then again maybe that was only tiers 1/2

Ironically, those complaining are from the higher tiers…

Jeknar.6184:

amem to that…

For real though!

JaNordy.6149:

RIP Yaks Bend. What will your server do now?

If they had good enough strategy that your server couldn’t stop it, they will continue to out think your server even with this change.

Oh Kitten!

Certainly a good change for WvW, it is a step in the right decision.

On the other side: RIP Kittens! Urban Battlegrounds Fractal at level 49 and 50 will need another strategy besides bannering the kittens to use them as a meat shield when the Captain Ashym go into frenzy with that sexy FGS. Nerf plz!

Mishi.7058:

gennyt.3428:

Mishi.7058:

The good fights are those which last hours on end, without either side bannering the lord non stop.
…

Yeah…and they often happen because the lord kept getting bannered…

Mishi.7058:

… (Players will have to watch objectives closer to avoid waiting until swords pop to respond.)

Sounds like fun!

Actually prior to my break they happened due to groups being very organized and very little bannering. However people used tactics, along with siege, and could drive off the enemy, or defeat the defenders and secure the objective. Then again maybe that was only tiers 1/2

There was a change to when the swords would pop up, though, right? It’s been delayed vs how it was at launch? So, maybe in the early months of GW2, earlier swords or better scouting led to better responses to attacks on keeps.

“Back then”, lords were basically never bannered (or sigil’ed) to delay a cap, though once in a while, some thief has been known to stealth rez a lord or supervisor.

Good times, my friend, good times.

Jeknar.6184:

Mishi.7058:

Actually prior to my break they happened due to groups being very organized and very little bannering. However people used tactics, along with siege, and could drive off the enemy, or defeat the defenders and secure the objective. Then again maybe that was only tiers 1/2

Ironically, those complaining are from the higher tiers…

The game, as in GW2 itself, as well as WvW and how it’s played, has change A LOT since the early days. Don’t compare today’s T1/2 to back then.

Would have been fine with either a delay or down state like penalty for lords.

Removing it entirely just pushes the experience into zerg rush with golems/map blobs.

Entirely not fun, nor does it lead to that awesome story you can share with guildmates about how you bravely ran in 1v50 and bought those precious seconds for the waypoint to open / group to push etc…

Sad about this change, bannering the lord just brought us lots of intense and memorable fights. Just loved those.

RIP Banners Hold;(

I think it’s really funny that players are defending this tactic saying their small group of Spartans were holding out against the Persian Empire by chaining Battle Standards. Reviving the Lord does not let you win; it just wastes everyone’s time. Every fight should resolve themselves eventually. Delaying the enemy until they get bored is not fighting.

Spoiler Alert: The Spartans all died at the end to the zerg.

The bannering nerf is a done deal. Though, there will be a more annoying thing than bannering ever was and that is the siege sabotage. Time will tell but I think this will kill the use of rams entirely and siege will entail more catapults and trebs due to the fact a trick at the other side of a door is too easy to place. You won’t need a banner. Anyone with supplies and a sabotage can shut you down repeatedly. Personally I loved the never ending garrison brawls, win or lose.

Everything has pro’s and cons

In this case the best solution would have been making the lords like players, when rezzed by a banner they appear with diminished health till after the 3rd? time they just die and can’t be bannered.

Anyway though this change isn’t the best solution, i think it’s way better then having rez wars with big massive blobs full with FX thrown at your eyeballs for hours

Anet nerfed warrior banner ?

now defend t3 keep against a blob of golem with 1 people inside trying to hold till his friends shows up to defend. gg anet gg..
LikeLike ·

we don’t need scouts in keeps anymore go karma train go go go
make all the wvw map another eotm.
maybe in next update make all tower & keeps t3 anyway [like eotm, wp there anyway] who need scouting 24 hours a day to see the t3 upgrade for tower & keeps?
now who can brag about how he bannered the lord against a blob just give some time to their friend?
tell u what remove banner totally we don’t need it instead make [Signet of Rage Quit]
Status : [0ms cast time] [5 sec cd]
[also works with time warp]
Passive Effect : Player rage lvl keep increasing to adrenalin lvl cuz lord couldn’t be bannered.
Active Effect: when activated player Alt+f4 gw2 & play other MMO.

I think this basically only got put in because people complained that it was imbalanced, but I don’t think there’s a rationale for why it is imbalanced. Currently if someone is already in the lord room, the circle just caps way too fast for you to do anything other than onesy-twosey in and get wiped. You might as well just not respond unless someone gets siege disabled from the get go, at which point they might as well just leave anyway without you showing up.

I think it’s really funny that players are defending this tactic saying their small group of Spartans were holding out against the Persian Empire by chaining Battle Standards. Reviving the Lord does not let you win; it just wastes everyone’s time. Every fight should resolve themselves eventually. Delaying the enemy until they get bored is not fighting.

That’s precisely why it was balanced. You could never, ever, hold a keep for a significantly prolonged period just by bannering. The winner of the fight kept/won the keep. Now for attackers it’s just “are you in the circle first? Cool. Can you manage to put your damage in that tiny cap circle? Awesome you win.”

Zoel.9154:

I think this basically only got put in because people complained that it was imbalanced, but I don’t think there’s a rationale for why it is imbalanced.

Lol what? Of course there is a rationale for why. Enough warriors could raise the commander indefinetly. Yes, on high tier servers that happened. I have fought battles for 3+ hours in garrison, killing the commander hundreds of times. Have you tried doing that to a player? Oh right, you cant. Because after 5 or so deaths, you instantly die instead of getting downed.

NPC Commanders should have suffered the same rules as players. They can only be ressed a limited number of times. It would have keept the strategy up to a point and given clever people enough time to make guilds reach a keep for defense, but avoided the insane unbalance of infinite revivals.

Instead, Anet choose to remove the imbalance with an icepick to the brain. Cute.

More karma train indeed. Instead of adding good mechanics they just remove one of the only mechanic that exist preventing the long and intense battles at Stonemist from turning into karma train flipping.

I’m very happy with this change. People claim its all about promoting blobbing, but i think the opposite is true.
It was much smaller groups that suffered from this. Getting into a keep with no more then 10 people, killing the lord, and then seeing a warrior charge in and banner rezzing was just frustrating. Knowing the enemy blob is not far away.
If you had a 40+ group of people on that capture point your odds of denying a banner-rez was much higher.
So if anything, banner rezzing itself promoted blobbing, and taking it away is actually in favor of smaller groups.

And those who think this just makes defending pointless (lol, exegerate much…). There is now the Siege Disabler. Take out a cluster of rams on a gate, or a bunch of cata’s hugging the wall. The siege disabler is a great boon to defenders.

Terrahero.9358:

There is now the Siege Disabler. Take out a cluster of rams on a gate, or a bunch of cata’s hugging the wall. The siege disabler is a great boon to defenders.

I somewhat agree about the banner rezing but not about the siege disabler. While it will help with defense somewhat, it won’t help if you happen to be a vastly smaller force. For example; the offensive group could just use ranged siege, paints the walls with aoes so you can’t get off a siege disabler, and uses disablers on the defensive siege you try and build/use to counter their siege. You simply have to hope the siege out of their range can hit or that you somehow get off an amazing hit.

If you were a vastly smaller force, bannering is just delaying the inevitable aswell. If you dont actually have the potential to muster a force that could wipe the enemy, it just buys you time. Just like siege disablers.

Bannering was mostly effective as a means to buy time for another banner or the zerg to come and defend. As a result it was mostly effective against smaller forces, who have a harder time stopping a banner rez and cannot deal with a zerg that comes to defend the keep.

In all honestly, I think they went too far with this. They probably should have just went with something like a down penalty and make it so that the lord could only be insta rez 3 times with 5 minutes or something along that line.

Zoel.9154:

That’s precisely why it was balanced. You could never, ever, hold a keep for a significantly prolonged period just by bannering. The winner of the fight kept/won the keep. Now for attackers it’s just “are you in the circle first? Cool. Can you manage to put your damage in that tiny cap circle? Awesome you win.”

Myself and a couple of guys from my guild prevented the cap of EB keep for over 2h. Just us even, no other players from our side, so they focused us hard. Eventually the map blob was forced to leave. If that isn’t a significant period of time than I don’t know. It was stupidly OP.

Can’t believe how many people are defending banner ressing in this thread. It was one of the worst mechanics in wvw.

Good riddance.

Will be interesting to see how keep sieges change with the traps. From what I understand wvw is going to be even more supply centric than it all ready was. Can’t throw them siege disablers if ya ain’t got supply. Camps and dollies get a bigger role, maybe force people to actually split off the blob.

PhotonWave.7450:

In all honestly, I think they went too far with this. They probably should have just went with something like a down penalty and make it so that the lord could only be insta rez 3 times with 5 minutes or something along that line.

Anet loves to choose the easy way out. Look at toys, 1 or 2 had a speed advantage and instead of dealing with that, they disabled ALL of them. Easy way out.

Valdemas.4960:

Can’t throw them siege disablers if ya ain’t got supply. Camps and dollies get a bigger role, maybe force people to actually split off the blob.

I don’t see it going that way. Imo it will just cause people to PvD with blob, while throwing disablers up the walls, because they won’t have to bother to keep supplies for useless rams any more.

Mattargul.9235:

Mishi.7058:

gennyt.3428:

Mishi.7058:

The good fights are those which last hours on end, without either side bannering the lord non stop.
…

Yeah…and they often happen because the lord kept getting bannered…

Mishi.7058:

… (Players will have to watch objectives closer to avoid waiting until swords pop to respond.)

Sounds like fun!

Actually prior to my break they happened due to groups being very organized and very little bannering. However people used tactics, along with siege, and could drive off the enemy, or defeat the defenders and secure the objective. Then again maybe that was only tiers 1/2

There was a change to when the swords would pop up, though, right? It’s been delayed vs how it was at launch? So, maybe in the early months of GW2, earlier swords or better scouting led to better responses to attacks on keeps.

“Back then”, lords were basically never bannered (or sigil’ed) to delay a cap, though once in a while, some thief has been known to stealth rez a lord or supervisor.

Good times, my friend, good times.

There has been a change to the swords, yes. However there hasn’t been a change to players scouting and calling things out for their server to see. This just makes scouting more important to defending a location.

style.6173:

It is a good change for those who dislike strategy.

It’s not ‘strategy’ if the tactic is simply ‘banner the lord’. That’s doing the same monkey thing over and over again. That’s rote, not strategy.

Ultimaistanza.4793:

Terrahero.9358:

There is now the Siege Disabler. Take out a cluster of rams on a gate, or a bunch of cata’s hugging the wall. The siege disabler is a great boon to defenders.

I somewhat agree about the banner rezing but not about the siege disabler. While it will help with defense somewhat, it won’t help if you happen to be a vastly smaller force. For example; the offensive group could just use ranged siege, paints the walls with aoes so you can’t get off a siege disabler, and uses disablers on the defensive siege you try and build/use to counter their siege. You simply have to hope the siege out of their range can hit or that you somehow get off an amazing hit.

There’s this cool mechanic called “stealth” that lets some classes get by all of that to fire off a siege disabler.

So now it’s not just all about the warriors being untouchable and bannering a fully dead (and how come it doesn’t work on US when we’re fully dead, hmmm?) claimer, now it’s about multiple classes having a flexible response to a large zerg trying to take their objective.

Here’s flexible for you: a fully upgraded T3 keep holds up to 1700 supplies, which is 170 siege disablers. Cluster of golems hitting you? That’s the better part of an hour’s worth of disabling them. Single cluster of siege (catapults usually, but also trebs) bothering you? You can potentially keep those useless for over two hours.

And while that means the focus has shifted out of the lord’s room, none of this relies on the ‘tactic’ of having five traited warriors using a skill that should have affected npcs the same way it affected players in the first place. Now anybody can immobilize siege, moving the fight for the keep elsewhere. THAT is an improvement.

Warriors, sad from having their OP toy taken away: hustle into the lord’s room and banner the lord when he’s low like how it was supposed to function in the first place, or else get him up the way you’d get up any dead player.

Rimmy.9217:

Ultimaistanza.4793:

Terrahero.9358:

There is now the Siege Disabler. Take out a cluster of rams on a gate, or a bunch of cata’s hugging the wall. The siege disabler is a great boon to defenders.

I somewhat agree about the banner rezing but not about the siege disabler. While it will help with defense somewhat, it won’t help if you happen to be a vastly smaller force. For example; the offensive group could just use ranged siege, paints the walls with aoes so you can’t get off a siege disabler, and uses disablers on the defensive siege you try and build/use to counter their siege. You simply have to hope the siege out of their range can hit or that you somehow get off an amazing hit.

There’s this cool mechanic called “stealth” that lets some classes get by all of that to fire off a siege disabler.

So now it’s not just all about the warriors being untouchable and bannering a fully dead (and how come it doesn’t work on US when we’re fully dead, hmmm?) claimer, now it’s about multiple classes having a flexible response to a large zerg trying to take their objective.

Here’s flexible for you: a fully upgraded T3 keep holds up to 1700 supplies, which is 170 siege disablers. Cluster of golems hitting you? That’s the better part of an hour’s worth of disabling them. Single cluster of siege (catapults usually, but also trebs) bothering you? You can potentially keep those useless for over two hours.

And while that means the focus has shifted out of the lord’s room, none of this relies on the ‘tactic’ of having five traited warriors using a skill that should have affected npcs the same way it affected players in the first place. Now anybody can immobilize siege, moving the fight for the keep elsewhere. THAT is an improvement.

Warriors, sad from having their OP toy taken away: hustle into the lord’s room and banner the lord when he’s low like how it was supposed to function in the first place, or else get him up the way you’d get up any dead player.

They could have limited it to 3 banners res, instead of breaking the feature.

Ok, here is a suggestion to try help the people crying about the removal of banner ress:

Many NPCs on PvE, starting from the Nightmare Tower Living Story, had the downed status (or fight to survive) like the players do. You had to either dps down the downed npc or finishing him, just like we do with players. Why don’t Anet add this downed status to all Lords on WvW (Guild Claimers only, not guards)? It’s a mechanic that is already in the game, so I’m not suggesting you to create anything new.

Then, since the Banner (and all other ress skills) are meant to get up allied units on downed state, you can save the lord if he still downed. Once he is finished/dps’ed to death, it’s over, pretty much like it happen to players.

Xillllix.3485:

They could have limited it to 3 banners res, instead of breaking the feature.

Nope, this overpowered exploitation of something that should never have worked in the first place is something the game is well rid of. Banner when the lord is low and you’re fine. Bannering something that’s dead back up? No thanks.

And why three? Why not two or five or seven or some other prime number? Zero times if dead, as much as you like while still alive.

Rimmy.9217:

Xillllix.3485:

They could have limited it to 3 banners res, instead of breaking the feature.

Nope, this overpowered exploitation of something that should never have worked in the first place is something the game is well rid of. Banner when the lord is low and you’re fine. Bannering something that’s dead back up? No thanks.

And why three? Why not two or five or seven or some other prime number? Zero times if dead, as much as you like while still alive.

Neutral ground, Add a downed state to the lord. We know they have to ability to do it to NPCs. Why not here as well?

Banzie.5248:

Rimmy.9217:

Xillllix.3485:

They could have limited it to 3 banners res, instead of breaking the feature.

Nope, this overpowered exploitation of something that should never have worked in the first place is something the game is well rid of. Banner when the lord is low and you’re fine. Bannering something that’s dead back up? No thanks.

And why three? Why not two or five or seven or some other prime number? Zero times if dead, as much as you like while still alive.

Neutral ground, Add a downed state to the lord. We know they have to ability to do it to NPCs. Why not here as well?

No. People talk about WvW being stale and unchanging, and have been for a long time. Time to shake up some of the things that people always do. People have been bannering a dead lord forever now. Let’s try innovating a different way to prevent capture.

Nokaru.7831:

I think it’s really funny that players are defending this tactic saying their small group of Spartans were holding out against the Persian Empire by chaining Battle Standards. Reviving the Lord does not let you win; it just wastes everyone’s time. Every fight should resolve themselves eventually. Delaying the enemy until they get bored is not fighting.

Spoiler Alert: The Spartans all died at the end to the zerg.

And that’s why no one cares about the fight or finds it interesting, and everyone has forgotten about it. Because it’s about who wins and loses and efficiency people, I’ve got karma to farm!

Also, knowing that at any time your small group sneaky cap of a keep could be kittened by one warrior sure lit a fire under my kitten to spike dps harder. It was exciting.

Guess it’s time to roll out my full nomads, mercy rune theif.

Ninja medic squad reporting in!

Rimmy.9217:

Banzie.5248:

Rimmy.9217:

Xillllix.3485:

They could have limited it to 3 banners res, instead of breaking the feature.

Nope, this overpowered exploitation of something that should never have worked in the first place is something the game is well rid of. Banner when the lord is low and you’re fine. Bannering something that’s dead back up? No thanks.

And why three? Why not two or five or seven or some other prime number? Zero times if dead, as much as you like while still alive.

Neutral ground, Add a downed state to the lord. We know they have to ability to do it to NPCs. Why not here as well?

No. People talk about WvW being stale and unchanging, and have been for a long time. Time to shake up some of the things that people always do. People have been bannering a dead lord forever now. Let’s try innovating a different way to prevent capture.

It’s stale because of ANets inability to shake the META around IMO, Not things like bannering the lord. They do minor things here and there but it always remains essentially the same.

Maybe Arenanet have been secretly working on a new res-grenade to give everybody this power!

.
.
.

Maybe not.

Rimmy.9217:

style.6173:

It is a good change for those who dislike strategy.

It’s not ‘strategy’ if the tactic is simply ‘drop 5 superior rams’. That’s doing the same monkey thing over and over again. That’s rote, not strategy.

and

Father Busho.2796:

Zoel.9154:

That’s precisely why it was balanced. You could never, ever, hold a keep for a significantly prolonged period just by bannering. The winner of the fight kept/won the keep. Now for attackers it’s just “are you in the circle first? Cool. Can you manage to put your damage in that tiny cap circle? Awesome you win.”

Myself and a couple of guys from my guild prevented the cap of EB keep for over 2h. Just us even, no other players from our side, so they focused us hard. Eventually the map blob was forced to leave. If that isn’t a significant period of time than I don’t know. It was stupidly OP.

It’s possible that the ‘blob’ wasn’t actually a significant number of people intended to take a keep. It’s also possible that they weren’t very good. Either way that’s pretty anecdotal.

I am very disappointed by this change.

I have many happy memories of long epic fights with clutch banners on the lord.

Bannering the lord was one of the pitfully limited range of tactics that small organised groups could use against large, mindless, button 1 spamming hordes.

Large groups that are to stupid to defend against this tactic deserve to get wrecked.

This decision is taking wvw in the wrong direction. Please change it back.

I like the change, no more exploitation and no longer endless fights in garry

Yes a small group could prevent a bigger one to capture keeps/garry, but also a zerg could do it making the fight last hours, this change will make scouting and defending more important.

I just can’t understand why people complaining…
What we had before:
To ‘banner’ the Lord u need warrior/guardian/necro (to be honest don’t know about such skills on other classes). Guardian need to place a signet on Lord and necro the mark, both can’t be immune to dmg when using skill so it was reall luck if u manage to res Lord with 1 of them. Warrior can be imune to dmg/conditions/hard and soft CC. 1 war go in placing banner, blob killing Lord in 2s, next warrior goes in and so on and so on… Some time after ally’s blob arrive and we have big epic fight.

What will we have now:
Imune warrior goes in circle and contest it for ~10 ses and then dies. Next warrior goes in and contest structure for next ~10 sec and so on and so on… Ally’s blob arrive and we have epic fight.

I can’t c how it will be different of what we have now.
If u didn’t have numbers to protect keep u will not have this numbers now as well.
If u had crap scouts that can’t report about blobs u will still have them now.
If u used banners just to troll enemy…well, no happy trolling for u from now.

Power res in fight is stsill an option – TW on Lord and res with double speed.

Edit: Just to make it clear we r talking here about fight IN THE LORDD ROOM. u failed to defend outer wall, u failed to defend inner wall but u want to endlessly res Lord…I never ever saw more then 1 banner in towers but even then u failed to defend gate or cata\treb spots.

WGuardian.1028:

What will we have now:
Imune warrior goes in circle and contest it for ~10 ses and then dies. Next warrior goes in and contest structure for next ~10 sec and so on and so on… Ally’s blob arrive and we have epic fight.

Can you contest while invulnerable?

I was never a fan of bannering resetting the circle timer, but completely removing bannering made the game more boring. From what I have seen practically nobody is falling on their sword to save something now. I would if I knew a competing force was a few seconds behind me but otherwise why bother?