Guild Wars 2

DeWolfe.2174:

Sentry.3691:

The results will look something like this:
1)2.5K steal
2)5.5k c&d
3)8k backstab
[…] a couple auto attacks for 500 each
4)10k Heartseeker
DEAD x_x

The combination of shadow stepping, stealth, high evasion, extremely high spike damage, and no cooldowns due to the initiative system results in a very, very broken class.

Amen! Sometimes, after getting ganked by this utterly non skilled/ op rotation, I’ll take a screen cap of the combat log. I really don’t want to spend the time to look but, I’m certain this rotation is an extremely high percentage of my deaths in WvW. It’s also VERY macro friendly which makes it very bad for the game. This rotation needs a 50% damage reduction. And, I used to say 20% but, as time and power creep continues, I keep upping the nerf.

To the Dev’s, don’t you EVER say you are working towards build diversity when you don’t touch the most spammed rotation in the game.

Dagger/Dagger is so 2012.

I think people are misrepresenting some of the(valid) complaints about the class.
It’s not just a l2p issue. It’s not an OP/balance issue. It’s an enjoyment issue. People don’t enjoy playing when thieves enter the picture. Whether or not it’s OP or not doesn’t matter, what matters is that stealth is a mechanic which has no real counter(swinging weapons and AOE are not counters to the mechanic, they’re counters to the player) which is frustrating to fight against especially on the wide open maps in wvw. Coupled with the best engage and disengage in the game, playing against a thief is a high risk/low reward situation for most other classes, as a completent thief will almost never ever die unless they make a critical mistake.

When a thief is around, it usually devolves to either the thief winning or the thief running away. Regardless of the fact that you can kill bad thieves(and even bad thieves usually perform much better than other badly played professions with the possible exception of warrior), it’s just not fun. It’s a valid complaint regardless of how many times you throw “l2p” accusations at it.

METAShift.2913:

I think people are misrepresenting some of the(valid) complaints about the class.
It’s not just a l2p issue. It’s not an OP/balance issue. It’s an enjoyment issue. People don’t enjoy playing when thieves enter the picture. Whether or not it’s OP or not doesn’t matter, what matters is that stealth is a mechanic which has no real counter(swinging weapons and AOE are not counters to the mechanic, they’re counters to the player) which is frustrating to fight against especially on the wide open maps in wvw. Coupled with the best engage and disengage in the game, playing against a thief is a high risk/low reward situation for most other classes, as a completent thief will almost never ever die unless they make a critical mistake.

When a thief is around, it usually devolves to either the thief winning or the thief running away. Regardless of the fact that you can kill bad thieves(and even bad thieves usually perform much better than other badly played professions with the possible exception of warrior), it’s just not fun. It’s a valid complaint regardless of how many times you throw “l2p” accusations at it.

^^^ This ^^^

Thieves are annoying. They could deal literally ZERO damage, and still be a pain in the kitten to fight simply because the mechanic they rely on from the ground up has no real hard counters.

There are countless suggestions on how to “fix” stealth with the current engine and mechanics in place without much need of an overhaul. Between Initiative drain while in stealth, to breaking it when hit with a damaging attack (not condition tick), Anet could reduce the revealed debuff to 2 or 3 seconds to make the class actually require a lick of skill to play.

Every fight between every class devolves into someone winning or someone running away.

METAShift.2913: “When a thief is around, it usually devolves to either the thief winning or the thief running away”

Thieves do die. I kill them all the time.

It kittenes me off more when I can see high mobility classes just straight up out run me.
Daily I get into fights with wars and eles who disengage and I chase a bit before saying screw it, I’ll see you again (it’s what I tell myself anyway, without names…i’ll never know with absolute certainty unless I try to party with them, I know guild/rank/armor skins could give me a good idea, but…)

Let’s not bring warriors into this, I agree they may need toning down, but it has nothing to do with this stealth discussion. As for eles, Their mobility has high cooldowns and the benefit of you seeing where they’re going. A thief has just as much mobility(shadowstep, shortbow, heartseeker) but it’s combined with a very spammable stealth and a get out free card with shadow refuge. Even worse, a thief can disengage while still remaining on the field, sitting in stealth and regenerating health. At least a warrior running away is one you’re sure not gonna unload a 5k hit on you out of nowhere.

And yes, “I can kill thieves”. Ok, so can I. A lot of thief players are bad, and what’s worse, a badly played thief outclasses any other badly played profession, so a lot of thieves stay bad. I kill thieves on my necro, I kill thieves on my ele, I die myself when playing thief(because I’m bad at it). That’s not the point. It’s not fun.

So a stance warrior running gs/sw+sh is pretty much unkillable if they decide to run away. But I’d rather the game had less of this kind of nonsense, not more.

at least warriors don’t perma stealth and gank you out of nowhere.

stealth in this game is broken.

in other game, stealth automatically reduce your speed by 50% because when you stealth you’re considered sneaking. in GW2 stealth can increase your speed by 50% if traited.

in other game you can only go stealth when you’re out of combat, but in GW2 you can go stealth anytime you want.

Evernessince.8035:

DeWolfe.2174:

Sentry.3691:

The results will look something like this:
1)2.5K steal
2)5.5k c&d
3)8k backstab
[…] a couple auto attacks for 500 each
4)10k Heartseeker
DEAD x_x

The combination of shadow stepping, stealth, high evasion, extremely high spike damage, and no cooldowns due to the initiative system results in a very, very broken class.

Amen! Sometimes, after getting ganked by this utterly non skilled/ op rotation, I’ll take a screen cap of the combat log. I really don’t want to spend the time to look but, I’m certain this rotation is an extremely high percentage of my deaths in WvW. It’s also VERY macro friendly which makes it very bad for the game. This rotation needs a 50% damage reduction. And, I used to say 20% but, as time and power creep continues, I keep upping the nerf.

To the Dev’s, don’t you EVER say you are working towards build diversity when you don’t touch the most spammed rotation in the game.

C&D doesn’t hit for 10k unless you’re almost out of health + glass + cloth. On that note, the above combo can be broken pretty easy. block/dodge c&d. If you’re a necro, put some wells around ya. Mesmers can hide in clones, engies can drop turrets, guards can block/protect. Warriors have enough block/mobility to do what they want. You really must have no idea how thieves work if that combo is giving you issues. There’s a thousand ways to counter it.

All those suggestions are very good, except they take time. Most WvW thieves can burst down a player in under 3 seconds. Even if you were to dodge, blind, block, and whatever else, the thief will just reset the fight. Coming back in a few seconds to wipe you while everything you have is on cd. Take Staff Ele for example, most of the skill animations take longer than it does a thief to burst you down. Kinda broken, no?

I understand no one wants there advantage to be diminished but, we should at least be more honest about it. Especially when my complaints mostly come from WvW. Where power scaling makes thieves way too much to handle for pretty much all builds.

DeWolfe.2174:

Frigid.6027:

if you’re getting hit for those numbers, try getting some gear with toughness on it.

Sure… please do tell us all how much toughness is required to not only mitigated a thieves damage output BUT, allow us to be able to apply enough damage to beat a thief? What, there isn’t enough? k thx by

I don’t mind thieves having stealth and teleports. It’s that they should NOT having all that burst. Thief burst needs to be knocked down by a lot.

What class are you playing? I’ll gladly help you since you cant seem to figure it out yourself. If you are getting hit for those numbers you are glass or you’ve ran into a signet thief who has absolutely nothing going for him except one burst and then he is dead.

DeWolfe.2174:

Sentry.3691:

The results will look something like this:
1)2.5K steal
2)5.5k c&d
3)8k backstab
[…] a couple auto attacks for 500 each
4)10k Heartseeker
DEAD x_x

The combination of shadow stepping, stealth, high evasion, extremely high spike damage, and no cooldowns due to the initiative system results in a very, very broken class.

Amen! Sometimes, after getting ganked by this utterly non skilled/ op rotation, I’ll take a screen cap of the combat log. I really don’t want to spend the time to look but, I’m certain this rotation is an extremely high percentage of my deaths in WvW. It’s also VERY macro friendly which makes it very bad for the game. This rotation needs a 50% damage reduction. And, I used to say 20% but, as time and power creep continues, I keep upping the nerf.

To the Dev’s, don’t you EVER say you are working towards build diversity when you don’t touch the most spammed rotation in the game.

In some situations it’s pretty obvious some are using macros.

DeWolfe.2174:

Evernessince.8035:

DeWolfe.2174:

Sentry.3691:

The results will look something like this:
1)2.5K steal
2)5.5k c&d
3)8k backstab
[…] a couple auto attacks for 500 each
4)10k Heartseeker
DEAD x_x

The combination of shadow stepping, stealth, high evasion, extremely high spike damage, and no cooldowns due to the initiative system results in a very, very broken class.

Amen! Sometimes, after getting ganked by this utterly non skilled/ op rotation, I’ll take a screen cap of the combat log. I really don’t want to spend the time to look but, I’m certain this rotation is an extremely high percentage of my deaths in WvW. It’s also VERY macro friendly which makes it very bad for the game. This rotation needs a 50% damage reduction. And, I used to say 20% but, as time and power creep continues, I keep upping the nerf.

To the Dev’s, don’t you EVER say you are working towards build diversity when you don’t touch the most spammed rotation in the game.

C&D doesn’t hit for 10k unless you’re almost out of health + glass + cloth. On that note, the above combo can be broken pretty easy. block/dodge c&d. If you’re a necro, put some wells around ya. Mesmers can hide in clones, engies can drop turrets, guards can block/protect. Warriors have enough block/mobility to do what they want. You really must have no idea how thieves work if that combo is giving you issues. There’s a thousand ways to counter it.

All those suggestions are very good, except they take time. Most WvW thieves can burst down a player in under 3 seconds. Even if you were to dodge, blind, block, and whatever else, the thief will just reset the fight. Coming back in a few seconds to wipe you while everything you have is on cd. Take Staff Ele for example, most of the skill animations take longer than it does a thief to burst you down. Kinda broken, no?

I understand no one wants there advantage to be diminished but, we should at least be more honest about it. Especially when my complaints mostly come from WvW. Where power scaling makes thieves way too much to handle for pretty much all builds.

From your posts I can see that it’s your inflexibility to actually try to learn how to fight thieves. No amount of toughness can fix that.

Some ele specs can burst my thief in under 1s. Staff is not one of them, I don’t even think staff can kill anyone with half a brain in 1 vs 1. When I play ele, 10-14k fire grab, gg for the thief.

Bump

Waypoints continually contested by perma-stealth thieves… trololo

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Some ele specs can burst my thief in under 1s. Staff is not one of them, I don’t even think staff can kill anyone with half a brain in 1 vs 1. When I play ele, 10-14k fire grab, gg for the thief.

fire grab needs you to be burning…

If an ele can kill you in 1 second means you can do the same…what’s the difference?
Stealth gives you the first attack chance…

I wish all classes had the initiative system. Get rid of cool downs! Don’t argue that theifs are the most squishy class in the game and that is why they dont have cool downs with that level of evasion, because we all know elementalists are the squishiest class, without even stealth.

When dealing with this issue ask yourself…. am i complaining about the stealth mechanic?

If the answer is yes, it is strictly a learn to play issue. So get out there and L2P!

( Not a thief )

Seigfried.5938:

I wish all classes had the initiative system. Get rid of cool downs! Don’t argue that theifs are the most squishy class in the game and that is why they dont have cool downs with that level of evasion, because we all know elementalists are the squishiest class, without even stealth.

Or go the other way around – give thief skills with reasonable cooldowns instead of initiative, kitten on Heartseeker would solve the 2222 spammers

Stealth really is a strong mechanic and the better and more creative the player is – the more over powered it looks, starting from the 2222 spammers through perplexity interrupt spammers to some pistolwhip or d/p stealth spammers… If these skills had cooldowns instead cost of initiative it would surely require more timing and thinking what to use (I’m not saying thieves doesn’t think what they’re doing… well some don’t) and if it goes wrong I’ll just stealth. Fighting invisible thief is a matter of luck if you manage to hit him and down (if he goes stealth at very low hp) – if not he just comes back at you with much health regenerated oe resets the fight. You with your cooldowns still run around circles hitting the air while he already has full initiative and prepares to take you down. Time to respawn.

I do have some experience fighting thieves and more or less know what to expect and how to react, but even that doesn’t guarantee I’ll be able to kill him. Either I get bursted/outcondtioned and kited around (lol) or he runs away unless he stays too long to die from my condis/lucky last lightning whip after he stealthed – that would end in my win.

Imagine then some fresh player who get’s jumped “WTF! there was noone around”, “oh kitten I gotta dodge” (even though he already took the dmg) and so on. Just the psychological effect is enough to turn the winning tide for the thief by a lot (unless you are prepared to fight stealth class at any time). Not seeing the enemy is one of the strongest mechanics in this game if not the strongest. Jumping in and out of fight “on a whim” does feel unbalanced (just as lack/too much mobility from this or any other class) and the complains from players are totally reasonable. How (or maybe) Will this mechanic ever get changed? Who knows, but the discussions will keep on going for sure ^^

Atoss.1056:

Seigfried.5938:

I wish all classes had the initiative system. Get rid of cool downs! Don’t argue that theifs are the most squishy class in the game and that is why they dont have cool downs with that level of evasion, because we all know elementalists are the squishiest class, without even stealth.

Or go the other way around – give thief skills with reasonable cooldowns instead of initiative, kitten on Heartseeker would solve the 2222 spammers

Stealth really is a strong mechanic and the better and more creative the player is – the more over powered it looks, starting from the 2222 spammers through perplexity interrupt spammers to some pistolwhip or d/p stealth spammers… If these skills had cooldowns instead cost of initiative it would surely require more timing and thinking what to use (I’m not saying thieves doesn’t think what they’re doing… well some don’t) and if it goes wrong I’ll just stealth. Fighting invisible thief is a matter of luck if you manage to hit him and down (if he goes stealth at very low hp) – if not he just comes back at you with much health regenerated oe resets the fight. You with your cooldowns still run around circles hitting the air while he already has full initiative and prepares to take you down. Time to respawn.

I do have some experience fighting thieves and more or less know what to expect and how to react, but even that doesn’t guarantee I’ll be able to kill him. Either I get bursted/outcondtioned and kited around (lol) or he runs away unless he stays too long to die from my condis/lucky last lightning whip after he stealthed – that would end in my win.

Imagine then some fresh player who get’s jumped “WTF! there was noone around”, “oh kitten I gotta dodge” (even though he already took the dmg) and so on. Just the psychological effect is enough to turn the winning tide for the thief by a lot (unless you are prepared to fight stealth class at any time). Not seeing the enemy is one of the strongest mechanics in this game if not the strongest. Jumping in and out of fight “on a whim” does feel unbalanced (just as lack/too much mobility from this or any other class) and the complains from players are totally reasonable. How (or maybe) Will this mechanic ever get changed? Who knows, but the discussions will keep on going for sure ^^

Very well done and very constructive

(“Who knows, but the discussions will keep on going for sure” and many will keep walking away from this game, for sure).

LordByron.8369:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Some ele specs can burst my thief in under 1s. Staff is not one of them, I don’t even think staff can kill anyone with half a brain in 1 vs 1. When I play ele, 10-14k fire grab, gg for the thief.

fire grab needs you to be burning…

If an ele can kill you in 1 second means you can do the same…what’s the difference?
Stealth gives you the first attack chance…

There is nothing in my post about non-burning target …. well, if that was supposed to be a gentle way to hint that ele can’t burn thief cos he is stealthed. Not my fault most players are like NPCs and just stand there when thief goes invi. I can C&D off a stealthed thief, I am sure others can use their skills too.

And you don’t react after the first attack? lol then you deserve to die xD

Forzani.2584:

DeWolfe.2174:

Sentry.3691:

The results will look something like this:
1)2.5K steal
2)5.5k c&d
3)8k backstab
[…] a couple auto attacks for 500 each
4)10k Heartseeker
DEAD x_x

The combination of shadow stepping, stealth, high evasion, extremely high spike damage, and no cooldowns due to the initiative system results in a very, very broken class.

Amen! Sometimes, after getting ganked by this utterly non skilled/ op rotation, I’ll take a screen cap of the combat log. I really don’t want to spend the time to look but, I’m certain this rotation is an extremely high percentage of my deaths in WvW. It’s also VERY macro friendly which makes it very bad for the game. This rotation needs a 50% damage reduction. And, I used to say 20% but, as time and power creep continues, I keep upping the nerf.

To the Dev’s, don’t you EVER say you are working towards build diversity when you don’t touch the most spammed rotation in the game.

In some situations it’s pretty obvious some are using macros.

If you think that you need a macro to perform this kind of combo… well there’s the reason you get killed.

First time commenting on forums.

I see the community compares the stealth of this game to on that has the original " 3 forms of energy or consumption". They are health, mana, and stamina/energy. ESO uses those 3 therefore the stealth would be balance. Comparing ESO to a game that only has health for all class is pointless. Games with mana and/or stamina is base require or consumption for the activation of stealth. It’s either activated over time, or a time limited stealth. As Gw2 has no stamina/mana it’s time limited stealth.

I started the game with atheif only for the P/P ( dual gunner is cool to me) however as I wvw more often I went with the thief meta. Playing against at first was annoying and a little broken. Playing as perma stealth I see players knowing how to counter it.

A method on fixing stealth could be instead of limited time for the stealth, thieves could get a bar similar to necro shroud. That bar is used for the stealth instead of time.
it could be limited to 100 and some stealth ultility could cost 15-35 over time depend on how useful and powerful it is.

As i said first time commenting on forums, I usually rather read and laugh.

Heartseeker and Black Powder should not be on the same weapon set. This easy combination is an abomination. D/D thieves at least have to land a somewhat risky melee attack to stealth (and yes CnD off of inanimate objects such as walls/siege is also stupidly broke). Every other thief build outside of D/P is tolerable IMO.

Sanduskel.1850:

Sentry.3691:

Karolis.4261:

urieldhynne.2743:

The diference of GW2’s stealth vs any other decent games is others games mechanics has detections and counter stealth.

GW2 just has a perma spameable invisibility.

As well as dodge/cc mechanics that counters stealth. As well as non targeted attacks that can hit stealthed targets – other games with conventional stealth do not have that (besides very few untargeted aoe abilities). As well as insane power creep and low passive defences of stealth classes compared to most other games, what enables ppl simply kill stealthed targets in a matter of seconds.

No. Just, no. Wildly swinging melee weapons is not a counter. Get real. And many classes have very limited access to aoe and non-targeted attacks.

A well played thief (and lets be honest, it is not hard to play a thief), with full stacks of everything (borderlands bloodlust, sigil bloodlust X25, Applied Strength, Applied Fortitude), consumables, and ascended gear really can’t be defeated in wvw. Multiple well played thieves easily wipe twice their numbers and they can do it really, really quickly.

The results will look something like this:
1)2.5K steal
2)5.5k c&d
3)8k backstab
[…] a couple auto attacks for 500 each
4)10k Heartseeker
DEAD x_x

The combination of shadow stepping, stealth, high evasion, extremely high spike damage, and no cooldowns due to the initiative system results in a very, very broken class.

Agreed. Anet’s stubborn refusal to address this laughably broken mechanic will come back to haunt them. Whenever I talk to gamers about GW2, they remark that they don’t appreciate getting ganked by invisible enemies – no thanks.

Unfortunately it’s already happening. This is also the same remark i see all the time in other game forums about thieves in gw2, which is sad.

You would think Balance is required for this class, You would think Fairness is required for this class and You would think Diversity is required for this class!

Oh well!

I’m not the one who is jeopardizing this game for the sake of Favoritism and Elitism.

Perhaps, there is hope……. Guild Wars 3?

My Proposal for Guild Wars 3
"
- No group or class is dominate.
- No group or class will dominate
- For every group or class, there will be an equal or opposite.
- Fore every group or class, there will be uniqueness and diversity.
- The larger the group or class, the more influence it will have.
- Compromise, Fairness, Moderation and Stability will be implemented to all.
- Distributional of Power will be Compromised to all.
- Distributional of Power will be Divided to all.
- Distrubutional of Power will Beneficial to all.
"

ZerFrost.3542:

First time commenting on forums.

I see the community compares the stealth of this game to on that has the original " 3 forms of energy or consumption". They are health, mana, and stamina/energy. ESO uses those 3 therefore the stealth would be balance. Comparing ESO to a game that only has health for all class is pointless. Games with mana and/or stamina is base require or consumption for the activation of stealth. It’s either activated over time, or a time limited stealth. As Gw2 has no stamina/mana it’s time limited stealth.

I started the game with atheif only for the P/P ( dual gunner is cool to me) however as I wvw more often I went with the thief meta. Playing against at first was annoying and a little broken. Playing as perma stealth I see players knowing how to counter it.

A method on fixing stealth could be instead of limited time for the stealth, thieves could get a bar similar to necro shroud. That bar is used for the stealth instead of time.
it could be limited to 100 and some stealth ultility could cost 15-35 over time depend on how useful and powerful it is.

As i said first time commenting on forums, I usually rather read and laugh.

Rather than creating a whole new bar, simply do as suggested above and use the resource that thieves already have; initiative. It degenerates while in stealth at the rate of 1 initiative per second, can not be regenerated by skills or traits while stealthed, and if the initiative reaches zero while stealthed the thief is revealed.

With this system, the thief now has to make mutually exclusive cost:benefit decisions:

1) Stealth for extended periods of time but at the cost of being unable to use more expensive initiative-dependent skills.

OR

2) Stealth for shorter periods/bursts so as to preserve initiative to power the more expensive skills.

A nice quickfix would be disabling Shadow Refuge upon entering wvw.

That still leaves the thief with 2 actual stealth skills which will continue to provide an advantage along side: regen traiting, the Critical Strikes trait line, Last Refuge & Instinctual Response traits, and with ‘running away’.
However, it will take care of the perma-stealth & reduce ‘unable to target’ issues.
If this were to be done, (and I know it won’t), Reveal could be removed altogether.

They will never fix thief. Baddies need perma stealth and they flock to this game to use the crutch of downstate/stealth for get out of jail free cards. This is what happens when a game is aimed and caters to casuals.

Just line them up and shoot them all before the get out into the field, you get your ‘loot’ and no one even need bother, bonus here is also, no has to worry about being taken out whilst in battle in such a scary way ‘shudders’.
even bigger loot bag bonus is we can simply fight the way WE want too.

Job done

For god sake it 100000 and 1 post about stealth. Stop crying. BTW i am not using thief in WVW. Thief is not easiest class to master and good thieves are rare enough. I kill a lot of thieves i die a lot fighting them. Would be nice if backstabs on 2600 armor wouldn’t be 7-8k. Besides that i have no problem. Almost all classes have mechanics to fight thieves, learn how to fight and stop going to WvW in zerk armor if you are not a thief.

Aurust.8961:

When dealing with this issue ask yourself…. am i complaining about the stealth mechanic?

If the answer is yes, it is strictly a learn to play issue. So get out there and L2P!

( Not a thief )

So when I do beat a Thief, and I am still complaining about the stealth mechanic. Is that still a L2P issue?

The stealth and thief defenders are actually correct, these threads are pointless. It is clear that they have no intention of nerfing thieves, stealth, or their damage output or they would have done it long ago. There is no purpose either complaining about it or for the frantic stack of defensive posts to L2P when another one of these threads come up. Ingame, I still sigh when I get downed with one hit from a stealthed player, then he stealths to finish me off but that’s it, there is nothing I can do about it.

zacharias.5437:

The stealth and thief defenders are actually correct, these threads are pointless. It is clear that they have no intention of nerfing thieves, stealth, or their damage output or they would have done it long ago. There is no purpose either complaining about it or for the frantic stack of defensive posts to L2P when another one of these threads come up. Ingame, I still sigh when I get downed with one hit from a stealthed player, then he stealths to finish me off but that’s it, there is nothing I can do about it.

Correct. Anet won’t learn. I moved on to eso.

Me playing as a thief that doesn’t like the machanic of stealth (Condition dmg build with shortbow) I grow really tired of fighting perma stealth. I normally just don’t bother with them and use Tripwire to prevent them from constantly sneaking behind me Anet should really implement the “if you get atked while in stealth you get revealed”, as others have stated…

Jayden Ennok.3687:

LordByron.8369:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Some ele specs can burst my thief in under 1s. Staff is not one of them, I don’t even think staff can kill anyone with half a brain in 1 vs 1. When I play ele, 10-14k fire grab, gg for the thief.

fire grab needs you to be burning…

If an ele can kill you in 1 second means you can do the same…what’s the difference?
Stealth gives you the first attack chance…

There is nothing in my post about non-burning target …. well, if that was supposed to be a gentle way to hint that ele can’t burn thief cos he is stealthed. Not my fault most players are like NPCs and just stand there when thief goes invi. I can C&D off a stealthed thief, I am sure others can use their skills too.

And you don’t react after the first attack? lol then you deserve to die xD

Fire grab:
“Damage foes in a cone in front of you. Deal more damage to burning foes. "

Damage Damage: 588 (1.75)
Damage Damage vs. Burning: 941 (2.8)

On the raction part
You can t react to a stealth attack beacuse of the same definition of the word reaction:

Reaction:
1.An action or statement in response to a stimulus or other event

Once you have been hit once you are either dead or so low on HP you need to play on the defensive… something that a glass cannon ele can t do.

That is why other games balance stealth putting lot of downsides on it (or some competitive games totally refuse to include stealth in their games for that reason)..
The creative GW2 team instaed put advantages on stealth…. nuff said.

P.S. i don t even play GC ele i play a balanced one…but i know how to kill GC ele…since they can t escape.

JaNordy.6149:

They will never fix thief. Baddies need perma stealth and they flock to this game to use the crutch of downstate/stealth for get out of jail free cards. This is what happens when a game is aimed and caters to casuals.

What is projection?

LordByron.8369:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

LordByron.8369:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Some ele specs can burst my thief in under 1s. Staff is not one of them, I don’t even think staff can kill anyone with half a brain in 1 vs 1. When I play ele, 10-14k fire grab, gg for the thief.

fire grab needs you to be burning…

If an ele can kill you in 1 second means you can do the same…what’s the difference?
Stealth gives you the first attack chance…

There is nothing in my post about non-burning target …. well, if that was supposed to be a gentle way to hint that ele can’t burn thief cos he is stealthed. Not my fault most players are like NPCs and just stand there when thief goes invi. I can C&D off a stealthed thief, I am sure others can use their skills too.

And you don’t react after the first attack? lol then you deserve to die xD

Fire grab:
“Damage foes in a cone in front of you. Deal more damage to burning foes. "

Damage Damage: 588 (1.75)
Damage Damage vs. Burning: 941 (2.8)

And your point?

LordByron.8369:

On the raction part
You can t react to a stealth attack beacuse of the same definition of the word reaction:

Reaction:
1.An action or statement in response to a stimulus or other event

What? Are you considering stealth attack to be some sort of omnipotent action that renders you inacapable of pressing buttons on your keyboard? If others can, why can’t you.

LordByron.8369:

Once you have been hit once you are either dead or so low on HP you need to play on the defensive… something that a glass cannon ele can t do.

Why not? Every class has some skills that can be used defensively. For those 11+ months I’ve been playing gw2, I haven’t been 1 shot by anything else than warriors’ burst skills. Yes there is a thief build that allows for huge crits, must be very popular on the servers you face, I haven’t come across it so far.

LordByron.8369:

That is why other games balance stealth putting lot of downsides on it (or some competitive games totally refuse to include stealth in their games for that reason)..
The creative GW2 team instaed put advantages on stealth…. nuff said.

P.S. i don t even play GC ele i play a balanced one…but i know how to kill GC ele…since they can t escape.

Pvp is definitely more fun with less stealth, though I doubt it would help with your dislike towards thief class.

Jayden Ennok.3687:

There is nothing in my post about non-burning target ….

That means you already been hit….and you didn t cleanse and you have been hit again….
That means you have comminted mistakes.

I think if thief hadn t stealth at all, and your only DPS attack could be used every 45 seconds on player already hit by specific conditions people would call it underpowered.

well, if that was supposed to be a gentle way to hint that ele can’t burn thief cos he is stealthed. Not my fault most players are like NPCs and just stand there when thief goes invi. I can C&D off a stealthed thief, I am sure others can use their skills too.

No it hints at the most used counterarguments about stealth used in VG development industry.

Unreactable+high damage = not related to skill and its isn t even rocket science.

What? Are you considering stealth attack to be some sort of omnipotent action that renders you inacapable of pressing buttons on your keyboard? If others can, why can’t you.

No i am simply remembering a base concept in balancing…
Reactable = high damage Used when you get your opponent off guard after a mistake
predictable = low damage used to push player committing mistakes

Stealth = no chance at all to do anything but “guess” that means your success depends on how bad the thief is and not how good you are.

May be good from a PvE standpoint, in PvP is the worst because almost bypass one player skill…

The worst is when it works even defensively.

Why not? Every class has some skills that can be used defensively. For those 11+ months I’ve been playing gw2, I haven’t been 1 shot by anything else than warriors’ burst skills. Yes there is a thief build that allows for huge crits, must be very popular on the servers you face, I haven’t come across it so far.

Because your thief without CDs will keep attacking making impossible to recover…
Also because other profession have cooldowns.

Pvp is definitely more fun with less stealth, though I doubt it would help with your dislike towards thief class.

PvP just made stealth unable to contest…..thus limiting its usefulness…while in WWW you contesting is less important and that is how you get the only downside removed.

LordByron.8369:

only DPS attack could be used every 45 seconds

With every post you confirm to me that you are biased towards thief class and you refuse to look at facts objectively. I will not put more time into discusion about it with you. Only thing I can recommend, roll a thief and learn how to play a thief, that is if you want to improve in fighting thieves. I did this everytime a particular class gave me some trouble. To this day, I have 3 thieves, 2 mesmers, 2 guards, 2 eles, 1 warr, 1 engi and 2 low level rangers.

The class would be more fun for me with less stealth but nothing will ever stop stealth/dps/evade QQ against it.

When thief players get short on arguments the usual answer is L2p……
I have a mesmer and i think stealth is OP in general..

Happy now?

P.S. also i didn t even express any opinion i simply provided informations…