Guild Wars 2

I’m really sick of having pairments where it’s basically 2 servers vs 1 other. This allways happens when there’s 2 servers from the same country.

If I can name & shame, it was very clear in the second round of this league, Vizunah vs Jade Sea vs Baruch Bay.
You would see Baruch invading a Jade Sea tower, some minutes after, a Vizunah zerg comming from behind wipes all the Baruch invaders and just leave the tower to Jade sea (without invanding it). And this happened not once, but many and many times.

This makes it very unfair for servers that don’t have “friend” servers. Isn’t there any solution for that?

I know it’s really hard… You can’t just say “Don’t match up two servers of the same country” because that would take the possibility of matching them (ofc). And what if someone wants to?…. I think it’s even fun to match another server from your own country… but this kinds of “server alliances” just keep things unfair and frustrating for the others.

Will Anet try to fix that in some way? How do you think it can be fixed?

[From now on, just some shouting/brainstorming]
Only if the matches were made of 4 servers, then you could make that at most 2 servers are from the same country, and this would take the “alliance” effect a bit down. But this solution it’s probably not good, because if we have lag with 3-server matchups, how many lag will we have with 4-server matchups? o.o

Maybe 2-server match-ups? Why not? I know it gets some WvW strategy down, but that will completely fix this issue…

There should be some way of fixing that with the current 3-server matchups. Any ideas?

Its WvWvW not WvW. Deal with it

it’s not even close to “friendship between servers”, atm it’s all about strategy of winning the league. Viz needed u to come third in that matchup, and they made sure u do

Getting 2v1’d is bad for server morale and PPT, but if you’re in a guild that plays for fights, it’s amazing fun.

Just saying.

War is about more about politics than fighting.

is this a joke? we never did an alliance/focus with Jade Sea, i explained it. Jade sea even think we double focused them, and seeing your both server talking about double focus was total nonsense for us.

@Malediktus. LOL actually it’s WvW, and not WvWvW. Just look at the tittle of this forum.

@Garuda. I don’t think Vizunah really cares about us when we are not even a threat for them. They will be first, and we are fighting for the 4th position or so. And this 2vs1 is now happening with the German servers, but in a smaller scale that Vizunah was. Vizunah’s case was… exaggerated.

@Reverence. I’m in a guild that every day we do Raid in WvW and I agree it’s amazingly fun (to make it clear, i’m not talking about a random zerg. We’re a group of 10-20 people in a TS with a commander, all from the same guild, and each one with his/her role). But for me it’s frustrating that all effort we put into WvW goes into nothing when it comes to server results, as the other servers just keep “bullying” us. So it’s fun while we’re in the Raid, but then frustration to see that so much effort goes into nothing.

If we loose because the other servers are better than ours, then it’s understandable, and so not as frustrating. But looks really unfair to know that you can’t be first because they’re “friend servers”.

blackoil.2673:

This makes it very unfair for servers that don’t have “friend” servers. Isn’t there any solution for that?

Make some friends?

Troma.3250:

is this a joke? we never did an alliance/focus with Jade Sea, i explained it. Jade sea even think we double focused them, and seeing your both server talking about double focus was total nonsense for us.

I strongly believe this, I am sure that there was not an alliance at all.
But I also think that several Vizunah commanders hated Baruch much more than Jade Sea, because we saw movements, in the map which we attended, that were really strange and stupid from a ppt gaining point of view or any other logical point of view.
Attacks and movements are more or less easy to preview depending on conquers, defenses and tier upgrade, but that specific week the logic went crazy in some maps at some hours with some enemy Vizunah commanders.

Best,

Haltair, one of the Twelve Shadows

Yep Haltair, like usually you are a wise man

i did the focus for each weeks. For this one, i asked : “no focus on anyone, do what you want”. The result is, some commanders had friends on JS or were on JS so they focused a little more you. Some commanders do not like JS, so they focused them.

That the pure facts, i swear.

true that and I swear when sfr meet vizunah I will focus them 250% <3

as always

its not about politics its about who you enjoy to kill

I don’t like Frenchmen because they got such a light voice so I enjoy fighting them<3

Frenchmen doesn’t like Swedish ppls I hear so they focus us

its not about 2v1 politics its all about hate its a game after all you play it to get some peace from all hard work in real life.

When i say it’s 2vs1 it’s not that the whole server was against us. There were attacks from Vizunah to Jade Sea, of course.

And that’s why I’m saying that just keeping these two servers away is bad, because there are legitimate players/commanders that don’t focus on one server, and they have fun fighting vs the other two servers.

What i open this post is not about let’s discuss if this is true or not. Because there is no proof of neither if it is or not. But it’s more in the way of:
“If it happens, then it’s bad because it’s frustrating for the one that’s being focused. Is there any way where the game could solve this, without affecting other parts?”

ok i understand blackoil

Leave EU come to NA, we hate everyone equally.

It’s match manipulation.

It goes against the rules.

If it’s proven, anyone involved is to be punished.

MithranArkanere.8957:

It’s match manipulation.

It goes against the rules.

If it’s proven, anyone involved is to be punished.

Lol as if that is going to happen. It would be bad PR.

wux.7314:

MithranArkanere.8957:

It’s match manipulation.

It goes against the rules.

If it’s proven, anyone involved is to be punished.

Lol as if that is going to happen. It would be bad PR.

Bad PR? Lol what? I’d be inclined to believe the opposite.

Simplest idea is that points are calculated taking into SIGNIGIFCANT account the number of people each team has on the field.

So if you 2v1, all that will happen is that you will make it much easier for the other team to get many more points per takedown in another zone. The key is to give a massive point bonus to the underdog.

So what’s the 3rd server in a matchup meant to do, sit around idle while the other 2 fight it out? Yes it sucks when both teams concentate on you, sometimes it’s more obvious, sometimes it’s not, but that hardly happened here. If Vizuna wanted to help JS win they would have done it by a lot more than a 2k vicory. I consider JS & BB to be 2 very good teams and more than equal & sometimes better than teams above them when out in force, JS were just a bit better this time around.

Double teaming has and always will occur, sure most time the 3rd server are just flys to swat as there are vast differences between each rank, but the third server in a matchup can sometimes cause problems to. No one wants to lose, and everyone wants to get the best possible result they can, whether it’s in their favor or anothers. Can you blame them for that?

I’ve faced Vizuna a few times now sinse i started WvW not that long ago, and to me they don’t seem to be double teamers, they tend to go for the bigger threat and show just who is top dog and sometimes someone else reaps the benefits of that.

This has nothing to do with “country alliances”. This has to do with points. A tower that Jade Sea gets against Baruch is worth double the PPT than if Vizunah held it themselves.
You’re pretty bad at analyzing things OP.

Jamais vu.5284:

This has nothing to do with “country alliances”. This has to do with points. A tower that Jade Sea gets against Baruch is worth double the PPT than if Vizunah held it themselves.

That’s pretty clear. But let me explain that case again, bc i think you didn’t understand it:
1. JS holds one Tower
2. A BB raid starts attacking the tower to invade it
3. When they’re about to get it, a Vizunah zerg appears from behind and wipes all BB Raid.
4. Vizunah just leaves the tower to JS, without invading it.

It’s true that for JS point of view, owning a tower instead of BB owning it means “double” points, since we were fighting for the 2nd place. But what does Vizunah have to do in it? It was really clear that he’d be first, and for so much difference, so Vizunah shouldn’t care about who’s server is that tower, and clearly they picked JS.

Again, the point of this thread is not to discuss if this is true. I really have no proof.

And the reply i saw “It happens and will always happen” it’s not really valid. Unless you are The Doctor, you can’t predict the future.

Having 1 vs 1 where one server is totally stacked is worse than having 2 vs 1.

At some point the two servers ganging up are gonna turn on each other…. then you can hit em!

wux.7314:

MithranArkanere.8957:

It’s match manipulation.

It goes against the rules.

If it’s proven, anyone involved is to be punished.

Lol as if that is going to happen. It would be bad PR.

Enforcing their own rules is never bad PR when those rules are for the sake of making things fair.

The only reason it will probably not happen is because how hard it is to prove.

Does Arena Net have a stated policy on this?

2v1 happends a lot. Sucks when it happends to Ur server but its part of the game. Take yaks,ebay,sbi matchup. Yaks wanted to win so they focus the strongest server sbi. Ebay stated they had a vendetta against sbi so they focus them. After the weekend ebay sees they have a good chance for second so they push sbi harder. Yaks would greatly benefit from sbi finishing in 3rd so they push sbi harder. It has nothing to do with friendly servers it has to do with strategy.

Yep. Guess yall are right. No matter what you call it though. It’s a game. and most people dont enjoy this ‘strategy’. So most will quit playing. WVW will lose numbers. I understand it cant be fixed. WVW would need an extreme overhaul.

I am on Yaks Bend and play mostly WvW. Not 100% of the time, but say at least a few hours a night .

Disclaimer, I spend most of time in our borderlands or the other two realms. I am not a huge fan of EB.

That said, never seen /map chat talking helping one server beat another. Not in voice chat either.

I mean literally, nobody is talking about doubleteaming a server or anything.

sorry OP, but I am there nightly and just not coming up.

2v1 is not against the rules. It’s standard tactic. Those who played HoH in GW1 will know, as it happened multiple times a day there.

Synd.7982:

Yep. Guess yall are right. No matter what you call it though. It’s a game. and most people dont enjoy this ‘strategy’. So most will quit playing. WVW will lose numbers. I understand it cant be fixed. WVW would need an extreme overhaul.

2v1 itself is not usually the strategy. Normally it is a result of 2 servers benefiting from attack the 3rd more so than each other. There is no way to overhaul wvw to change that.

2v1 is definitely not against the rules. In fact the devs want it to happen. That was mentioned pre-release (also pre-beta) and brought up again recently by Devon. It is the reason they went with WvWvW instead of just WvW.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Collaborative-Development-World-Population/3122389

Last match-up french clash, they were not holding hands plotting against us. It was really entertaining to watch. That is to say that I have never seen national servers double team third exclusively.

2v1 happens every week for every mathc. Thus why it’s called WvWvW.

What is with all the 2v1 threads today?

If you ask me I am glad people are finally starting to realize that they can 2v1 a stronger server.

Banono.4597:

What is with all the 2v1 threads today?

If you ask me I am glad people are finally starting to realize that they can 2v1 a stronger server.

There are a lot of things that people don’t seem to realize they can do in this game but more often we see people complaining instead of going out and doing.

I am fine with the 2v1, SBI went from facerolling both other teams (so boring) to actually having to fight. Frustrating but at least not boring. Teams don’t improve unless they have a challenge and we certainly had one.

What I don’t really get is how does the 2v1 fit with the league thing? If the plan is that the two smaller servers can gang up on the big bad guy and win, then just drop or refine/rethink these leagues.

Leagues don’t appear to be helping if they were actually meant to make it a “fair fight” between 3 similar sides.

You know who thinks that their match is 2v1 against them? Everyone. You know how often it’s actually happening? Almost never. You could log into 3 servers playing each other, and every one will have chatter saying the other two are working together against them.

dadada.1306:

You know who thinks that their match is 2v1 against them? Everyone. You know how often it’s actually happening? Almost never. You could log into 3 servers playing each other, and every one will have chatter saying the other two are working together against them.

But you know it’s true when it happens what I explained 3 times already. Wiping out the raid that’s invading a tower from behind when they’re inside [doors down] and then just leave the tower to the other team.

Bogey.5423:

Last match-up french clash, they were not holding hands plotting against us. It was really entertaining to watch. That is to say that I have never seen national servers double team third exclusively.

this is regular politics of Vizunah… guess who will take first place regardless of the result the week? and in spite of this. today they are with Picken during 9 hours tried to take bay from Seafarer’s Rest on the Piken map. and most likely they have not succeeded until guild raid iddqd has not left the border.
30 people from iddqd got a good experience in the battle against 160. and I hope they will take revenge

Maybe they didn’t take the tower, to you know…give Jade Sea more PPT than Baruch?

Sometimes it’s called tactical play :o ..also its WvWvW – there’s always gonna be 2v1s at times.

Blok.2604:

this is regular politics of Vizunah… guess who will take first place regardless of the result the week? and in spite of this. today they are with Picken during 9 hours tried to take bay from Seafarer’s Rest on the Piken map. and most likely they have not succeeded until guild raid iddqd has not left the border.
30 people from iddqd got a good experience in the battle against 160. and I hope they will take revenge

Cool, you made no sense whatsoever. Match-up threads this way: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/matchups, except our thread got locked in a day (which is an accomplishment), but another one is open.

What it comes to actual topic, dadada.1306 summed up it pretty nicely. Have to say that even if some servers do ally, then it is fine.

grz to server VizuPiken

With a /t like this you motivate people? Don’t treat fellow gamers like that, they are human too.

Lol the /t guy is the most nominated for commander of the year

Jayne.9251:

Lol the /t guy is the most nominated for commander of the year

That’s why you tick 5 ppt atm? Embrace your people with friendliness.

Empyre.2531:

Jayne.9251:

Lol the /t guy is the most nominated for commander of the year

That’s why you tick 5 ppt atm? Embrace your people with friendliness.

I’m on Piken dear.

I meant here:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Commander-of-the-Year

Jayne.9251:

Empyre.2531:

Jayne.9251:

Lol the /t guy is the most nominated for commander of the year

That’s why you tick 5 ppt atm? Embrace your people with friendliness.

I’m on Piken dear.

I meant here:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Commander-of-the-Year

Ah, the impersonator, but he forgot to copy the “don’t whipe to everyone”-part.

Jayne.9251:

Lol the /t guy is the most nominated for commander of the year

We have one insulting people all day long in /m and /t, and wondering why people lash at him now and “attack commander”….:D

Half or more the commanders out there are tools with a Power Problem, pretending to be “mighty” when they are just the bottom of a septic tank, but seems to think sharding 100g for a commander tag and being in a “known” guild on the server make them God.

Right now, i know that quite some people REFUSE to follow him and prefer losing things that playing under his orders, we prefere roaming in very small groups that follow him, and we are asking for ANYONE to tag up and do something instead of following him when he is alone….
(and i don’t talk about his idea of “tactics” which is : "let’s pile up bodies and hit our heads on the walls, insulting people for not “pushing” when facing twice the numbers and 10+ sieges into a keep :p)

Some people are like that.

On 2v1, STOP complaining about it. It’s DUBBED to happen since day 1 of WvW, since it’s theorical state, because it’s the DEFINITION of 3 way fight.
At some point it’s ALWAYS 2v1. Be it all the match, or multiple times of the watch, it’s never 1v1, because no one will sit on his kitten watching the other match to finish before jumping in (which is still a 2v1, because you engage the “survivor” battered and bloody after a fight).

Really, the only reason we see those threads it’s because, for once, instead of having the biggest server and the weakest focusing on the 2nd server all day, you have other scenarios, and specially, 2+3 focusing 1 and discovering it can make them BOTH 1&2 and put the bigger in place 3…..

People in the biggest server don’t like that and find it “unfair”, because they are so used to people in servers not thinking and chosing the easy way, instead of chosing what beneficiate them.

I’m still astonished of how much servers goes for the “easy way”, specially during the leagues (early on more than anything else), focusing on the server being blobbed by the biggest one, when they would have benefited from focusing the biggest one in the end in league placements and such (and fun too, because it would have reseted some nearly impregnable T3 holdings if defended).

WvW is fought by 3 servers at a time for a reason. There’s a 3rd server to shift the balance of power in a normal 1v1. WvW is interesting because it can be played many ways. It can be a free for all or it can be a team effort. I don’t see any issues with a 2v1. Having an alliance with another server actually requires more planning, seeing as how you wouldn’t want to do anything to aggravate your alliance, which in turn causes there to be less things to do on the map at any given moment. This is actually better and more interesting, if you ask me, than forming a gigantic person-bubble and running in a random direction. Don’t get me wrong, there is a strategic aspect in your standard free-for-all. It just… changes the state of the game.

Tom.8029:

WvW is fought by 3 servers at a time for a reason. There’s a 3rd server to shift the balance of power in a normal 1v1.

This was the idea, but it did not stand the test of reality.
In 90% of matches it isn’t the case.

It’s mostly: 1st and 3rd fight against 2nd. The 3rd does to get 2nd, the 1st does to increase distance. At best the 1st is fair and fight 50:50.

It’s time to get rid of the 3-sided matches and go to either 2- or 4-sided ones.
But 4-sided fights will definitely not only skill-laag, but kill the engine.

It’s time for 2-sided matches. And it’s time for shorter matches (how about 2-day weekend match, followed by a 5 day “under the week” match, … both in different rankings) than 24/7. And it’s time to change the fact that 95% of all matches are decided by PvD (e.g. by introducing time-sliced matches https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Night-protection-1/3281118.).

And definitely to bring some VARIANCE into this. 24/7 3-sided is now for more than a year, this could be varied, a time-sliced league, a weekend/weekday league, a 2-sided league, ….