Blackgate gets it. Holding the center of each BL and stomping doritos does way more for PPT now than actually holding territory does. People need to stop whining about the bloodlust buff and realize that points-for-stomping is the real significant meta change here.
Look at it this way: there are 695 points per tick awarded for map objectives. That means that there are just over 467,000 points awarded per week on keeps/camps/towers alone. Look at the T1 score right now—all three servers combined have already earned over 480,000 points and it’s only Wednesday night. Assuming point gains remain uniform, this means that at least 30% of points awarded for this entire match will come from sources OTHER than raw map PPT. Points-for-stomps were only introduced halfway through the match—next week I expect the margin to be even larger.
What this means is that stomps will win the match. Despite out-ticking BG by a healthy margin for hours today, SoR could not close the gap much closer than 6k. So far BG has had 2/3 or 3/3 bloodlust most of the time, and that is what is enabling them to maintain a lead despite ticking below 200 for hours.
EDIT: just to be clear, I’m not dissing BG or suggesting they shouldn’t be winning. Quite the contrary, I think BG has reacted well and quickly to the new meta—better than either of her opponents.
I’ll be interested to see the figures next week. It does appear a large difference. We just passed 38% points from non-tick. Before the patch it was around 30% I believe. But its hard to measure. A rough estimate is that yak slaps could equate for ~20-30% theoretically given a 120 average potential yak slaps per tick across 4maps (total average potential of 360 PPT from yaks). Basically, given a very small organized force on each map you could be earning more from yak slaps than your entire server does, but this varies so often from week to week that it distorts the actual figures in terms of just how much PPT is really earned from finishing with bloodlust stacks.
Either way, I feel like this is a great thing for the game and I look forward to some more open field combat in WvW, something I have yearned for, for a long time.
Either way, I feel like this is a great thing for the game and I look forward to some more open field combat in WvW, something I have yearned for, for a long time.
In general I like the changes, but I’m actually worried that stomp-for-points will discourage open field fights in the long run. I haven’t commanded in many months, but if I were running a zerg right now and my server had no buff, I would do everything within my power to AVOID an open-field fight unless I was certain we could crush the enemy in seconds (e.g. we have a 2:1 or greater advantage). Anything else and I potentially risk feeding the other server more points than they would earn off the entire map on tick.
BG alone of the T1 servers seems to realize this principle. They have been incredibly diligent about maintaining their bloodlust buffs, and that is what will (probably) win them the match this week.
Last weeks final score was 629.7k, meaning 35% was from yak slapping.
This weeks final score at the current pace will be 627.3k. The PPT will actually be 2.5k lower this week because theres more people fighting over points and less people yak slapping.
No offense, but opinion of T1 doesn’t count on this subject. When you are getting destroyed like ET is at the moment and when the dominant team holds the orbs. You just quit WvW and go to sleep.
In T1 every little point my count, but not in most match-ups.
Last weeks final score was 629.7k, meaning 35% was from yak slapping.
This weeks final score at the current pace will be 627.3k. The PPT will actually be 2.5k lower this week because theres more people fighting over points and less people yak slapping.
So much for that theory…
Looks like someone forgot the part about how points-for-stomps have only been around for ~36 hours.
Either way, I feel like this is a great thing for the game and I look forward to some more open field combat in WvW, something I have yearned for, for a long time.
In general I like the changes, but I’m actually worried that stomp-for-points will discourage open field fights in the long run. I haven’t commanded in many months, but if I were running a zerg right now and my server had no buff, I would do everything within my power to AVOID an open-field fight unless I was certain we could crush the enemy in seconds (e.g. we have a 2:1 or greater advantage). Anything else and I potentially risk feeding the other server more points than they would earn off the entire map on tick.
BG alone of the T1 servers seems to realize this principle. They have been incredibly diligent about maintaining their bloodlust buffs, and that is what will (probably) win them the match this week.
But if you don’t fight in open field, you will lose the buffs. If you lose the buffs, you won’t be able to leave your towers and keeps and it’s only a matter of time before you lose it all. If your not constantly fighting in the open field for bloodlust, you have already submitted defeat.
Either way, I feel like this is a great thing for the game and I look forward to some more open field combat in WvW, something I have yearned for, for a long time.
In general I like the changes, but I’m actually worried that stomp-for-points will discourage open field fights in the long run. I haven’t commanded in many months, but if I were running a zerg right now and my server had no buff, I would do everything within my power to AVOID an open-field fight unless I was certain we could crush the enemy in seconds (e.g. we have a 2:1 or greater advantage). Anything else and I potentially risk feeding the other server more points than they would earn off the entire map on tick.
BG alone of the T1 servers seems to realize this principle. They have been incredibly diligent about maintaining their bloodlust buffs, and that is what will (probably) win them the match this week.
But if you don’t fight in open field, you will lose the buffs. If you lose the buffs, you won’t be able to leave your towers and keeps and it’s only a matter of time before you lose it all. If your not constantly fighting in the open field for bloodlust, you have already submitted defeat.
Remember, my caution assumed that my server doesn’t have the buff at all to begin with. If I’m in a situation where I can cap three points and earn the buff, I will. But what I’m saying is that—everything else being equal—sensible commanders should not want to fight in the open (away from the ruins, at least) without it unless they absolutely have to. So if there’s anything other than an equal distribution of bloodlust, one server should always be looking to avoid large, open field fights rather than start or even encourage them.
This isn’t necessarily a bad thing, I guess, I’m just pointing out that its a major metagame change. Most people seem to be focusing on the buff itself, which is silly from where I sit.
Last weeks final score was 629.7k, meaning 35% was from yak slapping.
This weeks final score at the current pace will be 627.3k. The PPT will actually be 2.5k lower this week because theres more people fighting over points and less people yak slapping.
So much for that theory…
Looks like someone forgot the part about how points-for-stomps have only been around for ~36 hours.
I dont think you understand. PPT is slowing down, its not speeding up.
Yak slapping gives far more PPT than stomping does. If a 50 man zerg kills 2 yaks in a camp that is 1000 points. There is no way you can stomp 1000 people in a week, let alone the 3 minutes it takes that zerg to get to the next camp.
Less people zerging yaks, more people fighting in the middle, PPT will continue to go down.
Last weeks final score was 629.7k, meaning 35% was from yak slapping.
This weeks final score at the current pace will be 627.3k. The PPT will actually be 2.5k lower this week because theres more people fighting over points and less people yak slapping.
So much for that theory…
Looks like someone forgot the part about how points-for-stomps have only been around for ~36 hours.
If a 50 man zerg kills 2 yaks in a camp that is 1000 points.
Really? I mean, I knew you got points for yaks, but that many? That’s outrageous! O_O
What I meant by that statement though was that stomp-for-points will impact future matches way more than it has this one. I guess it’s less of a factor than I assumed though, if that’s the kind of point gain you can earn off yaks.
Like so many others have said, holding the orbs for the stomp bonus alone is incentive enough. Being on JQ, seeing BG lock down 3 orbs for hours on end means they are free to do as they want when they want.
When a server has the orb advantage the other two servers are going to be inclined to avoid fighting them because of the stat advantage.
IF the stat advantage was removed you would see an increase in fights due to the potential PPT gains you are making > Good.
While not discouraging outpopulated servers from going out there and trying to fight back without being outgunned due to the stat bonuses.
You get 5-10 points per person that touches the yak. I know it’s never really been exploited but you could win a match simply by yak slapping if you could discipline people into tapping once and backing off.
You get 5-10 points per person that touches the yak. I know it’s never really been exploited but you could win a match simply by yak slapping if you could discipline people into tapping once and backing off.
Well, I guess someone is eventually going to come around and correct you, might as well be me.
You don’t get 5-10 points per person that touches the yak.
You get 5-10 points per person that touches the yak. I know it’s never really been exploited but you could win a match simply by yak slapping if you could discipline people into tapping once and backing off.
Well, I guess someone is eventually going to come around and correct you, might as well be me.
You don’t get 5-10 points per person that touches the yak.
Yeah you get a total of 3 points for a yak kill, regardless of how many players kill the yak and only if the yak has a supply path to deliver supply IE killing two yaks with no secured supply path = 0 points for your server.
Potentially stomping could provide more points, but in reality I think as people adjust to the new meta the yaks will quite possibly still be a higher source. Could be wrong though. I’m waiting on future stats to get a guage on it.
You get 5-10 points per person that touches the yak. I know it’s never really been exploited but you could win a match simply by yak slapping if you could discipline people into tapping once and backing off.
Well, I guess someone is eventually going to come around and correct you, might as well be me.
You don’t get 5-10 points per person that touches the yak.
Yeah you get a total of 3 points for a yak kill, regardless of how many players kill the yak and only if the yak has a supply path to deliver supply IE killing two yaks with no secured supply path = 0 points for your server.
Potentially stomping could provide more points, but in reality I think as people adjust to the new meta the yaks will quite possibly still be a higher source. Could be wrong though. I’m waiting on future stats to get a guage on it.
Go kill a yak in a camp with no dirrect supply route and get back to me.
Okay, thanks for the clarification on yaks. That figure did seem a little insane to me, but since I’ve never actually looked into it I just took Peetee on his word. He IS right though that a lot of points do seem to come from sources other than raw PPT, and with the bloodlust buff I think it’s pretty obvious now that (at least in T1 and possibly T2 matchups, where the population is high enough to sustain this trend) PPT will be even less important in the future than it has been.
As one poster pointed out, though, this dynamic will not hold across all levels of WvW play. Servers/matches with lower populations will naturally have a much lower point-per-stomp ceiling, so this effect is magnified at the upper level(s).
I actually like the bloodlust buff itself, but I am wary about the different effects it will have on score relative to the matchup’s overall population.
You get 5-10 points per person that touches the yak. I know it’s never really been exploited but you could win a match simply by yak slapping if you could discipline people into tapping once and backing off.
Well, I guess someone is eventually going to come around and correct you, might as well be me.
You don’t get 5-10 points per person that touches the yak.
Yeah you get a total of 3 points for a yak kill, regardless of how many players kill the yak and only if the yak has a supply path to deliver supply IE killing two yaks with no secured supply path = 0 points for your server.
Potentially stomping could provide more points, but in reality I think as people adjust to the new meta the yaks will quite possibly still be a higher source. Could be wrong though. I’m waiting on future stats to get a guage on it.
Go kill a yak in a camp with no dirrect supply route and get back to me.
I’ll wait….
Ive already done this thousands of times. What I have said is correct.
You get 5-10 points per person that touches the yak. I know it’s never really been exploited but you could win a match simply by yak slapping if you could discipline people into tapping once and backing off.
Well, I guess someone is eventually going to come around and correct you, might as well be me.
You don’t get 5-10 points per person that touches the yak.
Yeah you get a total of 3 points for a yak kill, regardless of how many players kill the yak and only if the yak has a supply path to deliver supply IE killing two yaks with no secured supply path = 0 points for your server.
Potentially stomping could provide more points, but in reality I think as people adjust to the new meta the yaks will quite possibly still be a higher source. Could be wrong though. I’m waiting on future stats to get a guage on it.
Go kill a yak in a camp with no dirrect supply route and get back to me.
I’ll wait….
Ive already done this thousands of times. What I have said is correct.
I just got 10 points, I think hes right.
But it could still be capped, right? I mean, it seems a little strange to me to award a higher points potential for killing 2 yaks than holding every point on all maps for 15 minutes.
You get 5-10 points per person that touches the yak. I know it’s never really been exploited but you could win a match simply by yak slapping if you could discipline people into tapping once and backing off.
Well, I guess someone is eventually going to come around and correct you, might as well be me.
You don’t get 5-10 points per person that touches the yak.
Yeah you get a total of 3 points for a yak kill, regardless of how many players kill the yak and only if the yak has a supply path to deliver supply IE killing two yaks with no secured supply path = 0 points for your server.
Potentially stomping could provide more points, but in reality I think as people adjust to the new meta the yaks will quite possibly still be a higher source. Could be wrong though. I’m waiting on future stats to get a guage on it.
Go kill a yak in a camp with no dirrect supply route and get back to me.
I’ll wait….
Ive already done this thousands of times. What I have said is correct.
I just got 10 points, I think hes right.
You did it once and you think hes right? Let me put it this way, unless they changed it with the patch hes wrong. Ill be keen to loggin and sandbox it tonight, but I have sandboxed this alot more than once and I certainly won’t be making a conclusion from only one test. There are alot of variables here right now with the bloodlust buff combined with server score updates that are sometimes immediate, sometimes on tick and sometimes with delays.
Kinda. They only respawn instantly if they have been alive for at least 5 minutes. If they die or complete their route in less than 5 minutes, they will have the 5 minute respawn timer. If they die or complete their route in more than 5 minutes, they will respawn right away.
Btw you get 3 points to your total score for killing 1 yak. Does not matter how many people hit it. If this is still being discussed when I wake up I’ll find the Dev post confirming this.
No offense, but opinion of T1 doesn’t count on this subject. When you are getting destroyed like ET is at the moment and when the dominant team holds the orbs. You just quit WvW and go to sleep.
In T1 every little point my count, but not in most match-ups.
No you don’t, you got to the middle and stomp people. THEN you go cry your self to sleep.
I read the first post and anticipate a lively discussion on the new point meta and how roamers will earn more ppt. I get a long discussion about yaks….what the kitten?
Threnody of Belle – Necromancer and PvE Carebear (24,500 achievement points)
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Haha, yeah idk how this turned into being about yak ppt.
One of the biggest draw backs to the buff and the ppt, is that it discourages you from trying to take the buff from the overpowered server. You know you are at a disadvantage going into the fight, and on top of that you might turn into ppt for the other team with absolutely nothing to gain for your efforts. Compare that to going “oh well we can take my 30vX with or without the buff but we can take this keep and actually have a chance to positively affect our score, even if some of us do die and turn into ppt”.
So being outnumbered and try to get the buff = Nothing to gain but a buff, but plenty to lose.
OR
Being outnumbered and forget about the buff = Can still gain ppt for my server by flipping ppt, and disregard fighting for the buff to gain nothing.
Might not be a bad idea for anet to add a short (10 min) debuff that prevents joining wvw to anyone who logs out when in a downed state. Twice yesterday people did that to me. What a lack of sportsmanship.
I,m starting to think that you should take the PPT point from stomp off of the blood buff and add it to the out manned buff, it would give outmanned a reason to go out and fight. Its a small change to outmanned that would make a huge difference.
Might not be a bad idea for anet to add a short (10 min) debuff that prevents joining wvw to anyone who logs out when in a downed state. Twice yesterday people did that to me. What a lack of sportsmanship.
What if people dc? Seems to happen a lot lately. They will have to stay out for 10 minutes?
How do we know that ALL of these points are coming from yaks? I’ve seen our score go up after killing a yak before, but I’ve also seen it stay the same. It’s also not enough to say “you get X points for killing a yak because I saw our score go up by X when I killed one” because you don’t necessarily know what is going on in other maps, or even across the board in yours.
That being said, the yak talk is missing the forest for the trees. Yes, there are point sources other than PPT and yes, they are often significant to the match’s outcome. But my point here is that points-for-stomps will (at least on higher population servers) magnify this discrepancy. I won’t go so far as to say that holding keeps/towers is useless, but if you have even one bloodlust up it certainly won’t get you the same point income that reliably stomping will.
Why do we not have verification on this information? As in, why would Anet not spell out how points are earned?
It seems to me like it makes all the sense in the world for players to learn how to score points and develop a strategy around that. After all, this is supposed to be at least a semi-competitive game mode.
Dev blog discussed stomp being a point, they alerted community.
I think he was referring to yaks? I dunno. That was the impression I got.
Also, stomps are more than a point if you have more than one bloodlust buff. For each stomp, you earn as many points as you have bloodlust buffs. If a server has two orbs, staking 70 players total—across all maps—is the point gain equivalent of holding an entire borderland for a tick.
Why do we not have verification on this information? As in, why would Anet not spell out how points are earned?
It seems to me like it makes all the sense in the world for players to learn how to score points and develop a strategy around that. After all, this is supposed to be at least a semi-competitive game mode.
You get 3 points for killing an enemy yak while it is walking on it’s supply route.
You get 3 points when one of your yaks completes it’s route.
You get 1 point for taking a sentry.
The more servers that use this meta to generate points the more servers will adapt to counter it, I.E. Alt + F4 will rapidly become common practice to deprive the point generation.
This is a very very very negative thing.
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