Guild Wars 2

Here is some of that “data” that ANET is looking for: http://mos.millenium.org/na

Anyways, I am curious as to why on Thursday, and even on Monday this week that 6 matches were complete blowouts, and every match had a decided winner. There is no such thing as a comeback, or a tough fight throughout the week. The winner is picked on reset night based on random rolling of servers which is indicative of a broken system.

The leagues will only amplify this more when you have further gaps of servers playing each other (t1 vs t4), when already the gap of coverage between tiers is insane. The game isn’t fun because there is no consistency at all. You can choose to either be rolled, or get rolled. Actually you can’t even choose, you are just told on Friday night whether or not you will have a week of karma trains or be grossly outmanned. Please rethink this system. Matchups with no close score or struggle for victory towards the end are stale. I’d rather play the same people week in and week out if it meant that matchups would be closer and the fights more consistent throughout the whole week.

Because ppl tired of fighting same server over and over again. If they don’t want to change that RNG they should have buffed outmanned buff so you would gain it way faster than being outmanned by tripple of your numbers, would gain exra power/toughness etc. so you could actually fight a bit w/o getting one shot and build faster/spend less supplies etc. They could alos make it that the more PPT you have the more dmg you have to do to enemy structures to destroy them basically reaching numbers like +600 would be extremely hard and take really long.

That would at least particulary fix the problem, imo.

dont worry about ppt, just organize and come out for the fights, ppt is basically worth nothing, organize and fight, organize and fight, do nto stress the ppt and for the love of god do not leave wvw becuz u think the enemy has too much ppt

SpehssMehreen.5897:

dont worry about ppt, just organize and come out for the fights, ppt is basically worth nothing, organize and fight, organize and fight, do nto stress the ppt and for the love of god do not leave wvw becuz u think the enemy has too much ppt

Ppt is meaningless. It’s just a show of numbers and coverage.

Idc if I’m losing Ppt by 2039847 points if I can have some good close fights. Rotflstomping people with 3x their numbers is boring as all kitten. Give me a close fight where I win or lose (idc which) over that any day of the week. I might actually learn something then.

PROBLEM AND SOLUTION.

Radioactive you are 100% right. WvW is a ghost town this week. My server is crushing the other two and it’s no fun for any of us. I have even started looking looking for a new PC game so, for a massive GW2 fan like myself, I realised something is wrong and have come to the forums to see if others are feeling the same.

Problem – server whitewash. Evidence WvW maps 95% of territory held by 1 server.
Problem – uneven match-ups = server moral falling. Evidence; read the WvW match-up forums for all of the 5 blowout matches.
Problem – Playing other servers 5-6 ranks above or below. Evidence millenium.org.
The millenium.org bar graphs highlight the inequality. In fact it looks like the leading server’s bar is a massive erectus and the other two are ‘softies’.

There are only two tiers with a close match. Tier 1 and tier 7.
1 Blackgate v’s 3 Jade Quarry.
20 Eredon Terrace v’s 22 Fergusson’s Crossing.

And suddenly you understand…
THE SOLUTION.
These servers are NOT 5-6 ranks above each other. There is a 2 rank difference.

So for the love of Asura, PLEASE match us against other serves within 1-2 ranks above or below.

We don’t care if we play against BP or CD or Kain every week as long as it’s close.

No one wants to be matched with servers 3-6 ranks below. We crush them, they leave, it gets boring. BP and CD and Kain don’t leave. They keep coming at us and they make us bleed for every inch of ground. That’s what we play for.

There is no perfect system. But surely there is logic in matching us against the servers who are close to your equal.

/troll on

Guys there is no problem! WvW activity is at it’s highest level ever! People are flooding into WvW to enjoy the massive fights and awesome end game content! Blowouts are just happening because of the massive influx of people!! I mean if you saw the report on WvW activity…you would understand there has been no drop in activity over the past year! So just hang on tight and wait for the leagues to kick in and while you’re waiting pop on over to tequatl…we got some really good living content over here…

/troll off

/troll on
actually if you look at numbers, you must notice big increase of wvw players between years 2011 and 2013

/troll off

Working as intended.

They say WvW is stronger than ever.

Cool.

So why was it last night there were maybe 10 people in all of Eternal Battleground for Dragonbrand? Oh yea. Because WvW is stronger than ever, just not for us.

Those poor SOR guys are as bored as we are not present. It didn’t help that Tequatl stole all the fame either.

problem with previous machups was same servers fighting even if one of servers got population loss. it was impossible to drop a tier.

now we have random.

we should have had system that reacts to population transfers faster.

ty

It should certainly be easy for anet to design a system that takes the average WvW presence for each hour in a 24 hour period for a server and compare that to the servers it’s fighting. That 24 number string would weight the supposed rank of the server. Servers which maintain higher numbers throughout a week get matched to similar servers while servers with lower numbers get similarly matched. This could eventually even out as wvw becomes fun for more players with fewer blowouts.

No what happened was, anet said we are going to introduce leagues to the game, and the server you start on is the server you get rewards for etc, they announced is so far in advance that the servers that had a small-medium pop went, oh hell no im not getting no rewards because no one else plays WvW, so they all moved to the higher playerbase servers.

They then decided to introduce 5 sPvP zones into WvW, even though there has been numerous threads asking for it to be changed they all go unnoticed, thus adding to the masses that are leaving, its been said time and time again, that as soon as another MMO/big game came out this game would suffer, well in the last 3 weeks, we’ve had GTA V for the console games, and FF14 for the PC gamers, both are massive games, nearly all of my friends have bailed on gw2 now, most of them where WvW players.

lioka qiao.8734:

It should certainly be easy for anet to design a system that takes the average WvW presence for each hour in a 24 hour period for a server and compare that to the servers it’s fighting. That 24 number string would weight the supposed rank of the server. Servers which maintain higher numbers throughout a week get matched to similar servers while servers with lower numbers get similarly matched. This could eventually even out as wvw becomes fun for more players with fewer blowouts.

You know what would be nice? A match up between t1 NA and EU over a period of time.

Only if Anet doesn’t use Verizon. My one time trying to WvW on a euro server ended up with ping times so atrocious that the game wasn’t playable. At the same time guild members who didn’t have verizon had pings that were manageable. I was able to tracert to find that the carrier verizon used to travel overseas was the culprit for the bad pings.

Yep, 2 nights ago there was one person in the Eternal Battlegrounds channel for our server mumble, and zero in the BLs.

“We had to destroy WvW in order to save it.”

- last dev out before the fall of Anet.

Thrumdi.9216:

Yep, 2 nights ago there was one person in the Eternal Battlegrounds channel for our server mumble, and zero in the BLs.

“We had to destroy WvW in order to save it.”

- last dev out before the fall of Anet.

If it makes you feel any better, if you roll anything below your tier you’ll get entire map queues of fairweathers. Also, TC is busy doing Tequatl, so that hasn’t helped things, either.

Thrumdi.9216:

Yep, 2 nights ago there was one person in the Eternal Battlegrounds channel for our server mumble, and zero in the BLs.

“We had to destroy WvW in order to save it.”

- last dev out before the fall of Anet.

We still love your yak parades!!

Back to the main issue of why blowouts?

It’s a combo of the scoring system and incentives. The current system encourages coverage stacking, “risk/effort/reward” for off hour plays for T1 servers is “low/low/high”.

Solutions I’ve proposed before.
- Extending the PPT timer x3 reduces off hour coverage effect to score. Players can still run their karma trains for WXP/Karma/XP/Chest/Coin. Optimally off hour coverage score shouldn’t be over 15% at most of the total when it’s PvD,and that’s being generous.

- Kills count as the main scoring metric. This addresses mismatched server populations. Lower WvW pop servers are able to critical mass at least 1 map to remain competitive during prime time. With 2-3 solid guild teams, they are able to make large contributions to the match score now on lower ranked servers.
Bonus effect, T1 blobs on other maps now face “Que gods” to the one map with action. If they want to play in prime time, transfer to a lower ranked server for pew pew action.

- Preservation of siege play, move reward buff to towers, <insert another thread for what kind of incentive buff>.

In previous posts I mention keeps/towers, but keeps having buffs are bad, I’ll explain.

Currently keep way points have to large an effect for blob mobility once that combat timer comes off. This rewards getting caught with your pants down, and is horrible play. It also punishes teams that outplayed the opposition with insta port 40+ man blob on their face, not fun.

I suggest putting the buff CP’s in towers since it gives distance from a spawn/way point, and isn’t nearly as difficult to siege. Which allows reasonable buff turn over, and incentive to spread the blob to seriously defend hard objectives.
Also going to add, buffs should not be global, and reside within individual maps. No reason to reward off map blobs that can stack the current buff system.

One up, one down. It’s that simple. You’re getting new opponents every week, but playing against servers close to your own WvW population and 24/7 coverage.

But as we all know, we can’t have nice simple things here.

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

One up, one down. It’s that simple. You’re getting new opponents every week, but playing against servers close to your own WvW population and 24/7 coverage.

But as we all know, we can’t have nice simple things here.

This has been recommended by players for like 10 months, WULD would mean that a T1 server would play a T3 server EVERY WEEK. BG/SoR/JQ would only play each other every other week. Meaning TC would be in T1 every other week. This also means SoS/Mag/SBI would play against one of SoR/BG/JQ EVERY OTHER WEEK.

WULD is a horrid system with this amount of population imbalance.

“Close to 24/7 coverage and population” — Are you serious? SoR went down to T2 this week and they won by 250k. If SoR lost T1, this would could happen EVERY OTHER WEEK.

lioka qiao.8734:

It should certainly be easy for anet to design a system that takes the average WvW presence for each hour in a 24 hour period for a server and compare that to the servers it’s fighting. That 24 number string would weight the supposed rank of the server. Servers which maintain higher numbers throughout a week get matched to similar servers while servers with lower numbers get similarly matched. This could eventually even out as wvw becomes fun for more players with fewer blowouts.

In other words, close to the original system we had…..

SpehssMehreen.5897:

dont worry about ppt, just organize and come out for the fights, ppt is basically worth nothing, organize and fight, organize and fight, do nto stress the ppt and for the love of god do not leave wvw becuz u think the enemy has too much ppt

20% gathering bonus begs to differ about the worthlessness of ppt. It skyrockets my gold/hour to 13-15g.

Myst.3082:

PROBLEM AND SOLUTION.

Radioactive you are 100% right. WvW is a ghost town this week. My server is crushing the other two and it’s no fun for any of us. I have even started looking looking for a new PC game so, for a massive GW2 fan like myself, I realised something is wrong and have come to the forums to see if others are feeling the same.

Problem – server whitewash. Evidence WvW maps 95% of territory held by 1 server.
Problem – uneven match-ups = server moral falling. Evidence; read the WvW match-up forums for all of the 5 blowout matches.
Problem – Playing other servers 5-6 ranks above or below. Evidence millenium.org.
The millenium.org bar graphs highlight the inequality. In fact it looks like the leading server’s bar is a massive erectus and the other two are ‘softies’.

There are only two tiers with a close match. Tier 1 and tier 7.
1 Blackgate v’s 3 Jade Quarry.
20 Eredon Terrace v’s 22 Fergusson’s Crossing.

And suddenly you understand…
THE SOLUTION.
These servers are NOT 5-6 ranks above each other. There is a 2 rank difference.

So for the love of Asura, PLEASE match us against other serves within 1-2 ranks above or below.

We don’t care if we play against BP or CD or Kain every week as long as it’s close.

No one wants to be matched with servers 3-6 ranks below. We crush them, they leave, it gets boring. BP and CD and Kain don’t leave. They keep coming at us and they make us bleed for every inch of ground. That’s what we play for.

There is no perfect system. But surely there is logic in matching us against the servers who are close to your equal.

Or most specifically….“We don’t care if we play against BP or CD or Kain every week as long as it’s close….”

Be careful what you ask for…you might get it.

For months people on this forum berated ANet endlessly about Glicko. Which pretty much had well matched servers playing each other endlessly. For the most part…there were a couple servers that got stuck. But overall, it was better than this mess.

Somewhere in the back alleys of the net, the Glicko entity is hoisting a cold one and asking…“Miss me yet?”

Raf.1078:

Somewhere in the back alleys of the net, the Glicko entity is hoisting a cold one and asking…“Miss me yet?”

no. and i never will.

Bro, blowouts are so much fun. It shows how much more leet my server is duh. Clearly blowout > same equal matchups week in and week out. Can’t believe you can’t see that, I know Anet’s WvW devs who love WvW can see it!

insanemaniac.2456:

Raf.1078:

Somewhere in the back alleys of the net, the Glicko entity is hoisting a cold one and asking…“Miss me yet?”

no. and i never will.

Then you never wanted parity in the first place.

Raf.1078:

insanemaniac.2456:

Raf.1078:

Somewhere in the back alleys of the net, the Glicko entity is hoisting a cold one and asking…“Miss me yet?”

no. and i never will.

Then you never wanted parity in the first place.

nah, see, the glicko system was never designed for being used anywhere close to the way it was being used here. it’s designed for a 1 person versus 1 person competition, or at least 1 stable team versus 1 stable team. it doesn’t take into account varying population over the course of a single week long match, nor is it intended to be used in a 1v1v1 format. overall, it was the wrong system to use entirely. parity is pretty irrelevant at that point. any point system that doesn’t involve RNG would have an equal amount of parity to it, if not moreso. the problem wasn’t switching from a glicko system, it was Anet sticking RNG where it doesn’t belong, and doing a poor job of it at that.

Cynz.9437:

Because ppl tired of fighting same server over and over again.

Bah. When you are fighting a zerg server, massively out populating you, which happens most weeks, does it really matter if their server name changes? Does it matter if the guild acronyms over the zergs head changes?

Being +500’d or more really plays pretty much the same to me, no matter who is doing it. It’s not like these different servers use different strategies from each other once they have such superior numbers that they simply don’t need strategy to win.

Phantom.8130:

Raf.1078:

insanemaniac.2456:

Raf.1078:

Somewhere in the back alleys of the net, the Glicko entity is hoisting a cold one and asking…“Miss me yet?”

no. and i never will.

Then you never wanted parity in the first place.

nah, see, the glicko system was never designed for being used anywhere close to the way it was being used here. it’s designed for a 1 person versus 1 person competition, or at least 1 stable team versus 1 stable team. it doesn’t take into account varying population over the course of a single week long match, nor is it intended to be used in a 1v1v1 format. overall, it was the wrong system to use entirely. parity is pretty irrelevant at that point. any point system that doesn’t involve RNG would have an equal amount of parity to it, if not moreso. the problem wasn’t switching from a glicko system, it was Anet sticking RNG where it doesn’t belong, and doing a poor job of it at that.

Glicko wasn’t the perfect system…but was it really worse than what you have now? Of the 2 systems, which was better overall?

I’d take Glicko back in a heartbeat over the system now. And probably over leagues too…though, to be fair..that remains to be seen.

so erm we are facing the new stacked up jq server ……. http://mos.millenium.org/na/matchups/map/1019

Raf.1078:

Phantom.8130:

Raf.1078:

insanemaniac.2456:

Raf.1078:

Somewhere in the back alleys of the net, the Glicko entity is hoisting a cold one and asking…“Miss me yet?”

no. and i never will.

Then you never wanted parity in the first place.

nah, see, the glicko system was never designed for being used anywhere close to the way it was being used here. it’s designed for a 1 person versus 1 person competition, or at least 1 stable team versus 1 stable team. it doesn’t take into account varying population over the course of a single week long match, nor is it intended to be used in a 1v1v1 format. overall, it was the wrong system to use entirely. parity is pretty irrelevant at that point. any point system that doesn’t involve RNG would have an equal amount of parity to it, if not moreso. the problem wasn’t switching from a glicko system, it was Anet sticking RNG where it doesn’t belong, and doing a poor job of it at that.

Glicko wasn’t the perfect system…but was it really worse than what you have now? Of the 2 systems, which was better overall?

I’d take Glicko back in a heartbeat over the system now. And probably over leagues too…though, to be fair..that remains to be seen.

to be fair, that’s the same as setting two bowls of crap in front of someone and asking which one tastes better. the thing with Anet is, and always has been, their execution. they come up with something that could potentially be great, but implement it in the worst possible way so that it ends up being nothing but a giant detriment to the game. the randomized system is no different. it could have been pretty decent, they just made the range entirely too wide. at the time it was first implemented, being able to face a server 3 ranks above or below yours would still result in a fairly fun match, while allowing for a lot more variety than what glicko was giving. sure, there’d be some tougher and some easier matches within that range, but nowhere near as bad as the 7+ range in either direction that Anet ended up going with. those matches were entirely pointless, and nowhere near fun.

also, for the record, they’re still using the glicko rating system to sort out the ranks. they just jammed RNG into the actual matchmaking system, but the glicko scoring is still deciding how well each server is doing in all of those blowouts. hence why a server can get absolutely demolished and still gain rating points.

with ranking systems, honestly, the simplest solution is usually the best. a while back, i proposed 2 points for coming in first, 1 point for coming in second, and 0 points for coming in third, with only the previous 10 weeks factoring into the overall rank. it would have resulted in pretty much the same ranks that both systems produced, allowed for decent variation, and allowed the imploding tier 1 serves to drop and freshly stacked lower tier servers to rise much faster. but, apparently, “chess is where smart people is, so their stuff gotta be the bestest! and we can’t ever have too much RNG” so we ended up with the disaster that we’ve all just had to deal with.

going back to the “good idea implemented poorly” thing, the seasons really are the same way. at launch, the seasons would have been perfect. the servers were much much closer in population than they are today, so each league would have actually been close and exciting. when they opened free transfers, and kept them open for so long, any hope for WvW was stomped out. they’ve tried making some (once again, poorly implemented) changes, and pretty much peed on WvW’s grave. for all intents and purposes, WvW is Anet’s Ilum. it really is hopeless at this point, and the only real reason to stick around is to watch with morbid curiosity to see just how bad they’ll screw things up before they finally pull the plug for good. i’d say we still have another 6 months of three stooges like calamities before that happens.

I get what Anet tried to do but it is a HUGE FAIL. Sure we were tired of fighting the same servers over and over again but the way the match ups work now is completely ridiculous. They got rid of a problem but created one that is even worse. It kittening sucks. Most players don’t give 2 kittens about the rank, they want a fun fight, not this camp or be camped bullkitten.

I think the people suggesting that we just ignore the ppt in these blowouts are missing the problem entirely. I don’t give a kitten about the score, however the score conveys a lot of information. For example, if I log in and see that my server is getting blownout out in ppt by 300% I don’t even bother trying to WvW and just log back out. Not because I care about ppt per se, but because such a blowout indicates the types of fights I will be seeing. In the above example I can be sure that I’ll rarely find a fight where we aren’t outnumbered by a 2-1 margin. That type of fight isn’t fun. The game at that point simply isn’t entertaining.

And being on the other side of the equation isn’t any better. When we are the server blowing out the competition we get all the fair weathers coming out of the woodwork. Consequently what might start out as a fairly even fight usually ends when our zerg comes rolling in squash the enemy.

Either way, these blowout matches aren’t fun. The ppt is not a problem, merely a symptom.

Raf.1078:

insanemaniac.2456:

Raf.1078:

Somewhere in the back alleys of the net, the Glicko entity is hoisting a cold one and asking…“Miss me yet?”

no. and i never will.

Then you never wanted parity in the first place.

wrong.

dont tell me what i want.

get stuck in the sf/et/fc match for 3 months and tell me the system worked. i dare you motherkittener.

insanemaniac.2456:

Raf.1078:

insanemaniac.2456:

Raf.1078:

Somewhere in the back alleys of the net, the Glicko entity is hoisting a cold one and asking…“Miss me yet?”

no. and i never will.

Then you never wanted parity in the first place.

wrong.

dont tell me what i want.

get stuck in the sf/et/fc match for 3 months and tell me the system worked. i dare you motherkittener.

Motherkittener… Heh heh… Man, that never gets old.

Hanibull.5124:

I think the people suggesting that we just ignore the ppt in these blowouts are missing the problem entirely. I don’t give a kitten about the score, however the score conveys a lot of information. For example, if I log in and see that my server is getting blownout out in ppt by 300% I don’t even bother trying to WvW and just log back out. Not because I care about ppt per se, but because such a blowout indicates the types of fights I will be seeing. In the above example I can be sure that I’ll rarely find a fight where we aren’t outnumbered by a 2-1 margin. That type of fight isn’t fun. The game at that point simply isn’t entertaining.

And being on the other side of the equation isn’t any better. When we are the server blowing out the competition we get all the fair weathers coming out of the woodwork. Consequently what might start out as a fairly even fight usually ends when our zerg comes rolling in squash the enemy.

Either way, these blowout matches aren’t fun. The ppt is not a problem, merely a symptom.

very much this. fa for example is facing another t1 server and now with the new leagues coming we will be facing these blowout matchups for 7 weeks.a lot of guilds from other servers have left to t1 servers for the easy win. fa really doesnt care about ppt. if we are sitting on very little ppt and manage to destroy a massblob, we are still having fun. but bloodlust and 70 man zergs are not fun at all. if smaller groups could still make a difference like we used to, even a giant server would have to fight harder.
allow us to have an alliance server so we can at least compete without having to get transfers.

i like fa’s community. we all work great together and dont wanna have to turn into a mass blob server just because we are consistently forced to play vs t1(and tc…). also make defending keeps a little easier.

improve safety on walls(ele/necros can reach almost everything up there)
improve the keeps so a massblob for example has to run through a few chokepoints where traps (like eb jp traps) can be placed that could actually destroy a zerg. rightnow we cant even upgrade as whenever we manage to take a keep back. 5 min later a 70man blob pvd’s right back in and there is no way to stop them even with 4 ac’kittenting them.

Not to point out the obvious, but the problem is twofold.
One: Arena Net. (and problems 2-9)
Ten: Large guild transfers.

Remember when SBI and DH fought over the summer and in all three matchups no one knew the outcome on reset night. You won first, we placed second. Then we won first, you placed second. Then you placed first, we placed third. Now you’re spawn camping CD, a server that spawn camped us. The problem is at the heart the fault of the game mechanics and matchups which are too long and a game set up around rewarding the PvDoor. However, we did have relatively balanced matchups with you once upon a time and it would simply be incorrect to blame all of these blowout matchups entirely on the game mechanics now without taking a good look in the mirror.