[WvW] Suggestion Make towers defendable

[WvW] Suggestion Make towers defendable

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Posted by: Hitman.5829

Hitman.5829

Currently you cannot defend a tower properly. What do I mean by properly?

1.- Siege can be destroyed by aoe attacks because the siege is placed near the edge of the tower.
2.- The siege MUST be place near the edge or else you will lose field of view and you won’t be able to PROPERLY defend the tower because you cannot see the enemies.

How can you fix this?

1.- Modify the towers to allow for a TALL vigilance tower where you can build arrow carts. This will give the user a wide field of view.

OR

2.- When some one gets on an arrow cart allow them to zoom further.

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Posted by: Blodeuyn.2751

Blodeuyn.2751

3. Learn the best spots to place siege to counter the AoE issue. Catapults and ballistas work wonders against AoE when placed correctly.

Blodeuyn Tylwyth
Quaggan OP [QOP], League of Extraordinary Siegers [LEXS]
Ehmry Bay

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Posted by: lithiumwing.5493

lithiumwing.5493

It doesn’t seem to matter with how some are able to use ac’s to hit into a lord’s rooms from outside the second gate or any spot on the opposite side of a wall.

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

As long as players can extend their FoV, your changes would not make much difference.

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Posted by: Orpheal.8263

Orpheal.8263

1) ANet has to finally implement Defense WvW Skills that make it for players easier to defend locations against zergs to buy your world at least long enough time that some serious help could arrive.

2) Anet has to improve significantly the Upgrade Options for Towers, Camps and Strongholds, to make taking them for large Zergs significantly harder and time consuming to break through to the champ room

3) ANet has to add more interesting Traps into the game together with a Trap Mastery Skill so that defenders could get with them a better advantage.

4) Anet has to improve the Outmanned Buff, so that it finally becomes a siginificant boost and help for the underpopulated side to get effectively a chance to conquer somethign back or to defend something, by getting their Champions improved to Champ Commanders that raise the maximum health of the underpopulated side.
The Outmanned Buff should also decrease the Supply Cost for Siege Weapons and Traps by 50%

5) Towers and Strongholds should get a set up amount of Siege Weapon Slots, which increases with every time that you upgrade successfully the tower/stronghold.
Siege Weapon Slots should provide the location UNDESTRUCTABLE siege weapons.
Cannons should become through this undestructable.
Players which command siege weapons should receive no damage and should not be influencable through any CC effects, like fear, launches and the like…
A player, which commands a siege, commands it so long, until that player leaves it, or the location gets conquered by the ewnemie, which leads automatically to the destruction of all enemy siege weapon that were build in their slots.
If a player is still using a siege weapon, when the location gets conquered, that player will automatically die by the explosion of the siege weapon.

6) AoEs should not be placeable on Tower/Stronghold Walls. Defenders that are standing on a higher position have a natural advantage and should deal increased damage and increased range for ranged attacks against all the foes on the ground.
A feature, which already existed in GW1, its unacceptable and unexplainable, why this feature doesn’t exist anymore in GW2, when it would fit so logically here in WvW.
An arrow, that you shoot from a higher position, than from the ground, will fly alot wider.
An arrow shot from a high position, is alot easier shot at a deadly point (head), than to shoot it from the ground, where chances are bigge,r that you will hit somethign different or don’t hit at all. Thats also reason, why a mounted calvary is always in advantage against a slow infantry, not only because the cavalry is faster, but also their attacks from the higher position has better potential to be deadly, because from a mount its alot easier to attack directly a foe’s head …
A conqueror should focus on attacking the gate/walls, not on farming way to easy with AoE spam defenders from the walls which makes it for defenders nearly impossible to defend at all, unless you have placed somewhere siege weapons, which don’t can get hit by all the AoE damage.

7) Only through successfully defending places should players get rewarded with Karma, this will kill finally the huge karma train zergs and bring people to defend more, than to leave places defenseless behind, so that the enemy can take them back easier so that the karma train can keep on cycling … this has to stop.
Defending places needs to give more WExP, effectively more than taking a camp or tower.

8) Siege Weapons, that are build outside of the undestructable siege weapon slots, should be repairable, if the player that threw the blueprint has a correspondign siege item WvW skill rank higher than 5 tiers (means, all the other WvW Skilsl need to be finally raised to 10 tiers also)

9) Anet should add finally class specific WvW Skills to improve the class roles in WvW, so that each class can do something special in WvW that makes the class useful in several different aspects of WvW.

10) WvW should have its seperate own Skill Balancing for Class Balaces. Alot of the skills are overpowered for a WvW Setting. Bets thign would be, if all classes would have for WvW completely different Skills, that are only useable in WvW, cause its alot easier to balance an own Skill Set for WvW, than to balance a skill set, of skilsl that is for all game modes the same.

11) All kinds of buff items/food have to be removed out of WvW. This stuff needs to become finally PvE only, like that stuff worked in GW1. There these items were also PvE only and that out of a good reason. The ionly Stat Boosts in WvW that players should receive is either through WvW Skill Effects, or through taking the Shrines of Power, Wisdom and Courage (which should get changed into that kind of style, so that each shrine is somethign special)

Personally I like the idea behind sub classes ~ quoted from Chris Whiteside

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Posted by: Hitman.5829

Hitman.5829

3. Learn the best spots to place siege to counter the AoE issue. Catapults and ballistas work wonders against AoE when placed correctly.

The problem with using catapults inside the tower is that you are using them the wrong way. Catapults are meant to be used as offensive siege. When you place a catapult inside a tower you have very little room to shot the catapult. If you put the catapult on top of a tower’s wall you will miss all your targets or your catapult will get destroyed by AOE.

I am going to say that 95% of the arrow carts placed on towers and keeps can be destroyed by AOE. The rest 5% can be placed on a good location BUT with extremely low field of view. Most of the enemies are not visible from those locations.

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Posted by: DeadlySynz.3471

DeadlySynz.3471

Ya tower defending is a joke. Granted there should always been a counter to whatever offense or defense is being used by either side. Despite this, the only real defense a tower has is placing a scout to notify the map zerg in a timely manner.

Anything currently a tower has at it’s disposable is easily countered or destroyed by the attackers:

Siege on Walls: AoE Damage (Zerk Ele can easily flatten anyone around the siege before they react), Can’t reach siege? Stack on rams, out-heal AC’s

Door Treb: Use a catapult, or simply out-heal it on rams (did this yesterday with ease)

Door Catapult: Same as above

Ballista destroying catapults: Use rams

Cannons or Oil: Self-Explanatory, melt in seconds (no pun intended)

Best defense: Scount; Help, zerg attacking, “X” amount at door with rams

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Posted by: Blodeuyn.2751

Blodeuyn.2751

3. Learn the best spots to place siege to counter the AoE issue. Catapults and ballistas work wonders against AoE when placed correctly.

The problem with using catapults inside the tower is that you are using them the wrong way. Catapults are meant to be used as offensive siege. When you place a catapult inside a tower you have very little room to shot the catapult. If you put the catapult on top of a tower’s wall you will miss all your targets or your catapult will get destroyed by AOE.

I am going to say that 95% of the arrow carts placed on towers and keeps can be destroyed by AOE. The rest 5% can be placed on a good location BUT with extremely low field of view. Most of the enemies are not visible from those locations.

You need to think more creatively. All siege in this game can be defensive. LEXS has spent countless hours testing and experimenting with siege and I promise you that catas indeed make for good defense when placed properly.

Not trying to argue but rather enlighten and encourage.

Blodeuyn Tylwyth
Quaggan OP [QOP], League of Extraordinary Siegers [LEXS]
Ehmry Bay

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Posted by: Aeolus.3615

Aeolus.3615

Defending the tower:
Atack your own gate do destroy closest siege >_> as rams…..
Search the places where ac’s will be almost inside the wall…
Change fov to hit everywhere.
Search for glitchers and stop them.
Engi turrets and mesmer clones on top of the wall, also can be dropped on the other side of the gate(get a good amount of engi spike and that area gets cleared easy).

Atacking the tower:
Full server stack 1minute pvd or less and a reinforced gate is down.
Use catas on places that will not pop up swords.
Abuse of glitches to cap towers.

i dont see a good design….

(this is what ive cough other server doing by just going on youtube ir following enemy at distance)

1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.

(edited by Aeolus.3615)

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Posted by: thebeaRRRRR.8640

thebeaRRRRR.8640

There are many ways to defend a tower. A fully seiged defended t3 tower is a nightmare to take. You just got to make use of scouting so that people can respond to the tower early, and make use of the seige to keep them away.

[AHMA] Giam Chye Cha Loti
Ele, guardian
Ultimate Dominator

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Posted by: lioka qiao.8734

lioka qiao.8734

Attack a well defended Durios, then come back to talk about defense improvements.

If you take your time to plan out your defense on a tower then none of the suggestions in this thread are necessary. Did you:

  • Place a defensive treb on top of the supply depot or in a spot it can’t be reached?
  • Did you place your arrow carts on the back of the walls?
  • Carts in hard to reach places?
  • 1-2 ballista or carts on the ramp to the lords room?
  • Garrisoned 5-10 players there to man everything?

There you go. If you manage to complete all of those bullet points then your tower will pretty much be invincible. I’ve had nights where I tried to take a defended Durios for 3-4 hours with no avail. I would have to move on to other targets (and yes I was commanding a zerg at those times).

Little red Lioka

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Posted by: Aeolus.3615

Aeolus.3615

Attack a well defended Durios, then come back to talk about defense improvements.

If you take your time to plan out your defense on a tower then none of the suggestions in this thread are necessary. Did you:

  • Place a defensive treb on top of the supply depot or in a spot it can’t be reached?
  • Did you place your arrow carts on the back of the walls?
  • Carts in hard to reach places?
  • 1-2 ballista or carts on the ramp to the lords room?
  • Garrisoned 5-10 players there to man everything?

There you go. If you manage to complete all of those bullet points then your tower will pretty much be invincible. I’ve had nights where I tried to take a defended Durios for 3-4 hours with no avail. I would have to move on to other targets (and yes I was commanding a zerg at those times).

It all depends on enemy force present, and dropping siege, and how many u have as a backup force to get behind the enemy, for my exp the servers i figh take stuff mostly on full stacked, every tower melts that way.

1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.

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Posted by: Johje Holan.4607

Johje Holan.4607

  • Garrisoned 5-10 players there to man everything?

Lol what?

I thought your post serious at first but when I got to this I wasn’t so sure…

(Imagine Serious or Sarcasm gif here)

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Posted by: lioka qiao.8734

lioka qiao.8734

You never came across a guild determined to defend a tower? One that was good at it?

Little red Lioka

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Posted by: Aeolus.3615

Aeolus.3615

You never came across a guild determined to take a tower? One that full stacks server to take it?

I edited and fixed the words
And yes i know servers that do this to be fast cap.

1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.

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Posted by: lioka qiao.8734

lioka qiao.8734

I think that if tower (and keep) defenses are to be buffed that these should be internal defenses rather than external ones. Buff what happens after the main gate is breached. I saw some ideas come across up there that can be elaborated.

Traps
Traps are a sensible defense that would be found in a keep or tower. Make them as upgrades. Here are some ideas (upgrades)

Stairwell oil slicks: Set off an oil slick on stairwells inside the tower or keep. The switch for this is in the lords room. Tower slick lasts 1 minute, keep one lasts 3. Players (allied and enemy) slide down the slick and can’t climb the stairs. Oil slick can be countered by setting it on fire (with a spell or torch) which makes it burn everything in it for 10 seconds.
- A well timed oil slick could wipe an enemy force to internal artillery (arrow carts, ballistas)

Spike walls: Walls of the tower or keep are lined inside and out with spikes. Spikes damage and cripple those who are too close to the walls when moving inside the tower, allied and enemy.
-Spike walls would channel enemy and allied forces in the keep and make aoe more effective.

Switch activated portcullis: The switch is located in the lords room: Raises a gate to block movement on the walls. The gate can be destroyed by attacking it. It would have HP similar to 2 superior rams. Gate can be deactivated with the same switch in the lords room. 10 second cooldown between activate and deactivate.
-Much like the oil slick the portcullis could force a split in a zerg and make the defense of the tower more effective.

Recurring purchases
Making defense easier to do would simply amount to having NPCs be able to do things that players deign to do.

Repair the walls: Tell the workers in a tower to repair the walls (for a small fee). They’ll use supplies in the tower to effect the repairs and will be more efficient at it than players (supplies repair for more when used by the workers).
- Repair a tower without having to stick around and do it. This frees players to join the attacking force.

Guild workforce: Guild upgrade deploys repairmen at keep or tower you control. They will work like the workers repairing the walls above.
- The guild claim should be worth more than a few buffs. Having the guild’s workforce do repairs is a nobrainer.

Hire watch guard: Guards at the tower will now call out when an enemy force attacks a tower including which server and how many. If watching guards are killed the tower will not be alarmed. Guards may be re-hired if they’re dead.
- Watchguards would alert the map when a tower is attacked far faster than waiting for the swords to appear. They also will provide intel on forces attacking the tower.

Guild watch guard: Guild upgrade deploys watch guards at the tower or keep you have claim on automatically without you having to hire them.
- I would hope your guild has a security force

Hire field patrol, Guild field patrol: Mounted NPCs patrol the area around a tower or keep and will whisper to any commander actively tagged on the map when they find an enemy numbering greater than 5. Report includes server, size, and average direction the force was moving in. Patrols don’t engage enemies unless they’re attacked. The Hired field patrol will also inform the person who hired them. The Guild field patrol will inform any guild members on the map.
- Field patrols would provide scouting information to commanders on the field. This frees up players who would spend their afternoon scouting rather than fighting. If you like scouting more power to you. When I commanded EBG though I couldn’t get scouts unless I ordered them to and I know how little reward a scout gets for the value their service provides. This makes an NPC do the scouting for you instead, an NPC who doesn’t care about loot or reward.

Information is power. Traps make sense. If I were to upgrade defenses in towers and keeps that’s how I would do it. There doesn’t need to be invincible siege so long as the word gets out. Traps in towers could make for more interesting fights and a more “prepared” defensive force.

Little red Lioka

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Posted by: Svarty.8019

Svarty.8019

Currently you cannot defend a tower properly. What do I mean by properly?

The real problem is:

  • It’s boring to sit in a tower waiting for enemies to come.
  • When they do come, it’s hard to get to the tower in time.

I think the solution is:

  • Hearthstone to a tower, then you can go roaming. If your tower gets contested (only if it is contested), a specific number of people can Hearthstone back within a pre-determined timespan. This should not be a zerg-worth of people – just 3 or 4 – enough to put up some siege.

But we’re in daydream land. The chance of Anet doing any changes to WvW are very slim. I think it will be ignored until populations are zero then removed from the game.

Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.

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Posted by: Hitman.5829

Hitman.5829

Thanks guys for the wonderful discussion and good points. Hopefully Anet sees this post and takes in consideration our ideas and suggestions.