Guild Wars 2

On the structured pvp forum topics like this are quite common. Due to an other way of balancing in wvwvw balance would probably be different in wvwvw as in spvp.

The idea is like this:
by useing a few subcatogories (if I did miss one please notice me on it) that are:
- (guild) Zerg
- (guild) havoc squad
- guild vs guild
- roaming (large group/small group/ solo)
- dueling
If you fill in a ranking please use the catogrie you are know with, if you don’t know something about a certain catogrie, DO NOT make a ranking for it please.

Classes will be rated in 4 tiers, builds can be specified if it is about specific builds:
- S tier: those classes are a must have to succeed as a group or for the solo disciplines those are the strongest classes that if played by equally skilled players outplay almost every other class and build
- A tier: those classes are not a must have for a group play, but having them in your group will still give you great benefit. For solo disciplines those classes are those classes and build that if they are played against a equally skilled player give a good fight that can be won by both sides.
- B tier: For groups those classes are not bad to have but they are numbers fillers, the group have benefit from having but not allot. For solo disciplines those are the classes that can win fights against equally skilled players, but they will have a hard time winning
- C tier: For group playing, this are the rally bots, walking loot bags and allot other things in those categories. For solo playing this means you can only beat an oppent if you greatly out skill you opponent.

A few other points to make sure this topic does not need to be closed. Keep it civil, no flaming about classes/builds being OP, if you think they are put them in the S tier. Keep in mind the rankings are people personal opinions, form their perspective of playing, so if you do not agree they don’t have to be wrong. Like I play an elementalist if I encounter a condition necromancer in roaming I laugh and cleans all the condition off, for example a warrior that is not specced into condition removal might always lose against them.
And their to give some explanation by the ranking you give by writing down the class you play for example, so people can place certain ranking you give, that they do not agree on.

Dueling;
S = PU mesmer, Condi BM Bunker Ranger, Thief
A = Condition Necro, Condi bunker engineer
B/C = the rest

Roaming; (5-15 man)
S = Condition-Power Hybrid BM+Spiritshout bunker ranger, Guardian, Condition Necromancer
A = Condi-bunker engineer, Thief (in general), Warrior (Some builds), Mesmer (some builds)
B = Glass Canon Ranger, Shatter Mesmer, Elementalist
C = any variation of builds not mentioned above.

Well, that’s how i’d rate it. You may disagree, but my pet say’s your wrong,

Based on my experience WvW with most classes at 80 fully geared. There are too many great builds for these classes to name even the dominant ones.

Zerg
Foundation Classes = Guardian/Warrior
Below Par = Thief/Engi/Ranger

Havoc
Foundation Classes = Guardian/Warrior
Below Par = Ranger

GvG
Foundation Classes = Guardian/Warrior
Below Par = Thief/Engi/Ranger

Skirmish
Foundation Classes = Guardian/Warrior
Below Par = Ranger

Dueling
Dominant Class = Mesmer
Below Par = Guardian/Ranger

Roaming
Dominant Classes = Mesmer/Thief
Below Par = Guardian/Ranger

(guild) havoc squad
S- Guardians/War
A- Necro/Ele
- guild vs guild
S- Guardians/War
A- Necro/Ele
- roaming (large group/small group/ solo)
S- PU Mes, Thief
A- War, Necro
- dueling
S- PU Mes, Thief
A- War, Necro

Zerg: Foundation Classes- Necromancer/Guardian
Below Par=Engineer/Thief

I put the Necromancer for Zerg fights rather then the warrior, because, simply put, in the mosh pit those Wells, marks, Spectral Walls, and Life Transfer/Chains of Darkness are simply OP as hell. Not to say that Warriors are not essential, they are. But they are not as essential as people seem to think. In fact, I am noticing a major increase in pure Warrior/Guardian spam in zergs, and as a Necromancer I fully support this trend.

Havoc=Guardian/Warrior
Below Par= Engineer
havocs needs the battle standard to stay alive fighting larger forces, and they need the guardians stability. Rangers are also useful in a havoc because of their water field that can quickly heal up your warriors. so I would not rank them below par

GvG
Foundation Class= Warrior/Necromancer
Below Par= Ranger/Engineer
In a GvG stability is good, so Guardians still have their use, but the thing is, the cool downs are brutal and GvG’s tend to last awhile, so you need that constant warrior hammer spam and Necromancers spreading conditions everywhere. Without those wells, marks, and epidemics, its much harder to bring down a pain train.

Skirmish
Foundation Classes= Thief/Necromancer
Below Par=Guardian
The Thief can gank people and winnow the enemy numbers down, while the necro can play the rabbit using death shroud, plague form and his fears. The necro can also quickly get rid of his conditions and last long enough for the thieves to heart seeker the more dangerous enemies down and preventing them from being rezzed with well spam.

Dueling
Foundation Class= Mesmer
Below Par= Guardian

The mesmer is OP as hell in a 1 on 1 fight. Guardians I like to call free bags whenever I see them alone.

Roaming
Dominant Class=Mesmer/Thief
Below Par= Guardian

Also, seriously, whats with the ranger hate? They aren’t that bad. They aren’t that great, but in many cases they are more useful then Guardians, especially in roaming situations and skirmishes.

Dueling:
Mesmer

Roaming:
Thief
Warrior
Ranger

Zerg:
Berserker Elementalist
Warrior/Guardian
Necromancer

S. Guardians

A. Warrior, Necro, Thief, Engineer, Ranger, Mesmer, Elementalist.

B. Warriors, Rangers.

C. Rangers.

General wvw 15man+
Source: My perspective from 1000s of hours in WvW

S. Guardians (Must have in EVERY party in EVERY group)
A. Eles, Necros, Warriors (Could all really be S tier but you don’t absolutely need them in every party)
B. Mesmer (Need atleast 1-2 veils, TW is good for dps/golems, portal sometimes good.) Once you have 1-2 in your group any more is a waste of a slot.
C. Rangers, and Engis to a degree. Rerolling to any S or A class will benefit your group more. I don’t even play a ranger and I think they should be buffed to offer more in a group setting.

Curtis.1562:

I don’t even play a ranger and I think they should be buffed to offer more in a group setting.

Please do not rate professions you do not play. It put’s them in a bad light, as you base your experience of the profession, based solely on how others perform with it. Now, some people play great on a ranger and terrible on a warrior, some is the other way around. The playstyle of each individual does not necessarily work well with any given profession. Most people take rangers, because they actually believe the profession is meant to be a archery profession, however they are wrong, and therefor they perform way under par with others.

This also applies to engineers, not many play them, they are fun, but hard to get into, yet they are probably one of the strongest professions in terms of dueling.

To those rating, rate that which you or close friends of you play, Do not base your rating on some random pug’s performance.

Prysin.8542:

Curtis.1562:

I don’t even play a ranger and I think they should be buffed to offer more in a group setting.

Please do not rate professions you do not play. It put’s them in a bad light, as you base your experience of the profession, based solely on how others perform with it. Now, some people play great on a ranger and terrible on a warrior, some is the other way around. The playstyle of each individual does not necessarily work well with any given profession. Most people take rangers, because they actually believe the profession is meant to be a archery profession, however they are wrong, and therefor they perform way under par with others.

This also applies to engineers, not many play them, they are fun, but hard to get into, yet they are probably one of the strongest professions in terms of dueling.

To those rating, rate that which you or close friends of you play, Do not base your rating on some random pug’s performance.

Seeing the signature, I guess he is view form a commander perspective and it’s true rangers are not the most viable option at the moment. I have some problems also with the way it’s brought however, since if someone says, from 1000’s of hours of wvwvw, the more or less say between the lines, if you do not agree with my you are wrong, due to the huge variety you can do in wvwvw this is not true. In my opinion in certain situation rangers should be in A or B tier. And rating something you do not play is not necessarily a problem, but you should not rate it low because you are not playing it.

Warlord.9074:

S. Guardians

A. Warrior, Necro, Thief, Engineer, Ranger, Mesmer, Elementalist.

B. Warriors, Rangers.

C. Rangers.

What WvW mode are you refering to? I can think of at least two where Guardian is C. Also, are rangers A, B or C? Warriors A or B?

its amazing to see people who actually know what they are talking about putting warriors in the place they actually deserve to be in rather then hearing all these noobs going BLAH BLAH BLAH WARRIOR OP AT EVERYTHING>PUMESMER IN 1V1!!!1!
Id probably say for ranking:
Dueling:
s- Mesmer, necro
a- engi (a+), thief, warrior (a-) (note why warriors are below thieves is because a good thief, and i mean a good one, can always reset the fight, warriors can only take advantage of those resets by also healing, he cannot choose when he wants them to happen therefore thieves have the upper hand IF they are good. low skill vs low skill a warrior would probably win)
b- ranger
c- elementalist
Not to say elementalists are bad at dueling, its just their class is so brutally nerfed to the ground that it requires so much more skill for an ele to beat any other class with much lower skill level
Zergbusting:
s- guardian
a- warrior, necro, ele, mesmer
b- engi
c-
d-ranger (sorry :P)

Zerging:
s- any class with a 1 button
a-
b-
c-
d- ranger

For ZvZ:

God: Good Ele. Good ele=the real god of WvW, even bad ele can do something which other classes can not reach. Sometimes a few skilled ele will totally change the result of ZvZ combat, other classes’ role are not even close 1/10 of what a good ele can contribute.

S: Guardian / Warrior. The core of the blob, they contribute a lot when as a whole group. But they are still human, number does matter, a few more guardian/warrior won’t change the result significantly.

A: Mesmer/Necro. Both play important/irreplaceable role in big fight. But highly rely on other classes performance.

B: Thief. Best roamer, but so so in ZvZ. However they are the only God-terminator. If thief can lock the god ele of opponent , it can also change the result.

C: Engi/Ranger. No need to explain.

The mesmer is OP as hell in a 1 on 1 fight. Guardians I like to call free bags whenever I see them alone.

Roaming
Dominant Class=Mesmer/Thief
Below Par= Guardian

Also, seriously, whats with the ranger hate? They aren’t that bad. They aren’t that great, but in many cases they are more useful then Guardians, especially in roaming situations and skirmishes.

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Guardian isn’t terrible 1v1, but it largely depends on the build and class of the opponent and whatever the guardian is running, for example mesmer with almost any combination of cripple and condi on clone death and PU is a very rough counter, and a guardian in an overtly support spec is going to have a bad time killing anything. Ranger for support is significantly worse then Guardian outside of the water fields they can bring to a fight for support, and their damage tends to be staggeringly single target when focusing on condition damage.

Tier S: Guardian and Warrior for their presence in most WvW scenarios, there are even some Guardian builds that can be very effective at solo roaming, but this rating is largely due to the GVG and WvW’s perceptions of the plate classes value, and the undeniable / unfortunate contribution of stacking many of them.

Tier A: Ele and necro, Necro’s can find a use in almost every aspect of WvW, they can solo roam, but like guardian face difficulty doing so during outnumbered fights, difficult class and build counters, and weak mobility. Otherwise, Necro is an important part of GvG and ZvZ warfare as aoe pressure through conditions and wells. Elementalists have retained their higher skill floor and though weaker then they used to be in large part to nerfs and the condition meta are still VERY important members of a GVG fight, and very strong in ZVZ warfare with staff, (not to say the dual-wielding spec variants are bad either.) additionally dual-wielding eles remain great fixtures for havoc groups and great for solo roaming featuring good sustain and mobility.

Tier B: Engineer Thief and Mesmer, Engineer is a great, high skill floor class often featured in havoc groups and solo roaming to varying (depending on the skill of the individual) success, a well played engi will find solo roaming very rewarding, and their utility and condi pressure is often indispensable to havoc groups. Engineer is often unused in GvG’s and though grenade spamming can be powerful condi pressure is susceptible to serious retributive damage through constant retaliation uptime in a sustained ZvZ fight. Thief is arguably the best solo roamer and a great contribution to a havoc squad featuring the ability to stealth team-mates and finish off low health enemies quickly and efficiently. Thieves are sometimes brought in GvG’s where they remain at the fringe of the fight poking at the fights back lines and occupy similar tasks in ZvZ. Though nice, in these two formats their contribution is often not hugely significant in these facets. Mesmer is in competition with thief for the king of roaming, though not as mobile it’s 1v1 capacity is almost limitless featuring powerful decent, condition, and burst capabilities, additionally in small group / havoc squads shatter mesmer/ lockdown is a powerful addition bringing group stealth, boon denial and aoe burst damage to down groups of enemies quickly. In GvG’s mesmers, like thieves, often sit at the fringe of fights contributing strong utility aoe’s and chaos fields to a fight. Though thief and mesmer and useful to have, very few of them are often necessary for most GvG’s and ZvZ’s.

Tier C: Ranger, this class has decent to subpar solo roaming capabilities, and is mildly valuable to a havoc squad via it’s water field. Though ranger viability in spvp hinges on spirits, that spec unfortunately does not translate well to wvw, and though the ranger longbow aoe is always nice, they are sadly almost never requested or appreciated in GvG or ZvZ.

From an entirely solo-roaming perspective and small group perspective.

Tier S: Thief, Mesmer
Tier A: Warrior, Engi, Ele
Tier B: Guardian, necro
Tier C: Ranger