Guild Wars 2

Just looking at the matchup history on MoS it seems that there’s more often kittenty matchups between servers that are far apart in ranking on EU then on NA side.

Is the hidden roll that makes up for mixing server matches different between NA and EU? If so, why?

I believe the ratings difference in EU is much closer between the different “tiers” than it is in NA, which equates to greater volatility in matchups due to the variance and RNG.

However, that said, I saw someone post the other day that EU servers between 1-10 (pretty much) can be matched up and have a reasonably decent week/fight because guilds in EU haven’t stacked one server (except Viz) as severely as it has happened in NA.

T1 servers in NA are so severely stacked with players that the difference between T1 and T2 population is significant, same goes for population differences between T2 and T3 — and that population coverage is reflected in the disparity of ratings difference between the NA “tiers.”

That’s not the case in EU, with a few exceptions.

DevonCarver.5370:

The roll is absolutely the same on each.

Wait Devon. Jayne has played in both NA bracket and EU bracket. Her experience matters.

problematic.9623:

DevonCarver.5370:

The roll is absolutely the same on each.

Wait Devon. Jayne has played in both NA bracket and EU bracket. Her experience matters.

how do you think devons post trivializes jaynes?

with the same roll, tighter rankings = more disparate matches

Yes. While it is too early to tell the winners in this week’s match up, I will comment a bit anycase:
http://mos.millenium.org/eu

Our server Desolation, which is rank 5, got matched up against EU rank #1 Visunah Square (VS) and EU rank #2 Seafarer’s Rest (SFR). Visunah and Desolation are both mostly PuG servers. We both have guild groups, but except for few guilds no guild is able to muster more than 10-20 players on a typical night. Visunah seems even more PuGs. The big differences between Visunah and Desolation is that VS has larger WvWvW population and better coverage. VS are also more playing for the points, really loving tons of siege weapons, while Desolation players often like open field battles. Desolation is used to fight outmanned, so we know that game very well (probably better than any other top server). For comparison SFR is a stacked server with lots of large hard core WvWvW guilds and to them even 30-60 player force is not a blob (“SFR never blobs” ;-) ). SFR though lacks night coverage, having probably around 40 players at night (my estimates might be off). So no EU server is perfect.

Desolation players are often fighting with the outnumbered “buff”, but still able to put on a good fight. In fact we are right now still #2 in our match up. We are gonna end up #3 in most likelyhood as Visunah is always weak during weekends, but strong during week. Still I predict we will be going up in rating (rising to EU rank 4) and Visunah will lose rating.

Our morning coverage is really bad and noon is weak as well (evening time in NA). We sometimes have just few players on a map. No wonder that enemy then captures anything it wants. Just 1-2 morning or noon time guilds, who play everyday and would be willing to border hop would completely change the situation. In fact if any of the top 6 servers in EU would get significant player force from NA or Oceanic guilds, they would rise to number 1.

So the game in EU is actually potentially very volatile. No server here is fully stacked 24/7. So far it has been EU guilds moving to NA to have easier wins and match ups. But if opposite movement (big NA guilds moving to EU) would happen, that could have big impacts on the match ups for sure.

insanemaniac.2456:

problematic.9623:

DevonCarver.5370:

The roll is absolutely the same on each.

Wait Devon. Jayne has played in both NA bracket and EU bracket. Her experience matters.

how do you think devons post trivializes jaynes?

with the same roll, tighter rankings = more disparate matches

You and Devon did not pay attention to the experience presented to you. Another EU player commented after you. Why don’t you try again to listen? I don’t care how the match works. The experience of the player is: There is more volatility in the EU matches than found in the NA bracket [and that is correct]. This experience must be appreciated.

insanemaniac.2456:

problematic.9623:

DevonCarver.5370:

The roll is absolutely the same on each.

Wait Devon. Jayne has played in both NA bracket and EU bracket. Her experience matters.

how do you think devons post trivializes jaynes?

with the same roll, tighter rankings = more disparate matches

^This pretty much.

Not exactly sure how any of it is contradictory or trivialized to what Devon said either.

Tighter ranking means higher volatility. Which, as far as I can see, isn’t that big an issue for EU servers, barring a few exceptions. That tighter ranking also means reasonable competitiveness, different opponents on different weeks, with the exception of facing Viz. Most of EU doesn’t complain about this volatility, they just get out there and fight. And that’s likely because the EU guilds haven’t stacked any one server to the extreme it’s been done in NA, so there’s always a reasonable and good fight each week, regardless of server ranking — at least in comparison to NA “tiers.”

Jayne.9251:

insanemaniac.2456:

problematic.9623:

DevonCarver.5370:

The roll is absolutely the same on each.

Wait Devon. Jayne has played in both NA bracket and EU bracket. Her experience matters.

how do you think devons post trivializes jaynes?

with the same roll, tighter rankings = more disparate matches

^This pretty much.

Not exactly sure how any of it is contradictory or trivialized to what Devon said either.

Tighter ranking means higher volatility. Which, as far as I can see, isn’t that big an issue for EU servers, barring a few exceptions. That tighter ranking also means reasonable competitiveness, different opponents on different weeks, with the exception of facing Viz. Most of EU doesn’t complain about this volatility, they just get out there and fight. And that’s likely because the EU guilds haven’t stacked any one server to the extreme it’s been done in NA, so there’s always a reasonable and good fight each week, regardless of server ranking.

Augh. So both of you did not understand me? Let me have one more shot. I did not use the terms “contradictory or trivialized.” I understand this statement; “Tighter ranking means higher volatility.” Yes, and most of the EU doesn’t complain about the volatility. The gameplay evolved differently to compensate for the game structure limitations. Yes, EU has not stacked as many servers to the extreme as its been done on NA.

Jayne, your post was interesting because you have played both sides. No one acknowledged your experience or the differences between the two brackets…communicating understanding of what you wrote is what matters to me. 1) NA and EU bracket volatility is different. 2) Players on both sides have different methods of compensating for this. When I saw Devon go straight into explaining the mechanics of the matchup I wanted him to stop and acknowledge that the match-up mechanics are not the only process! The players have created their own “process” (which has complicated the design).

So….my input has less to do with the original poster and more to do with communicating the details…. =)

As we can see, OP’s question has been answered, both by another forum poster and specifically by the WvW lead. Any more expectations from the community on intentions, acknowledgements, or otherwise may prove to be…

Ghotistyx.6942:

As we can see, OP’s question has been answered, both by another forum poster and specifically by the WvW lead. Any more expectations from the community on intentions, acknowledgements, or otherwise may prove to be…

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Problematic…

You are correct. Humor is good. Smile.

Ghotistyx.6942:

As we can see, OP’s question has been answered, both by another forum poster and specifically by the WvW lead. Any more expectations from the community on intentions, acknowledgements, or otherwise may prove to be…

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Problematic…

You are correct. Humor is good.

problematic.9623:

1) NA and EU bracket volatility is different. 2) Players on both sides have different methods of compensating for this. When I saw Devon go straight into explaining the mechanics of the matchup I wanted him to stop and acknowledge that the match-up mechanics are not the only process! The players have created their own “process” (which has complicated the design).

So….my input has less to do with the original poster and more to do with communicating the details…. =)

the euros may in general value fair matches more than americans since the degree of server stacking is lower. and thus higher volatility is a source of frustration.

i dont really see players compensating for volatility, i see different volatility as an effect of player attitudes on a large scale o.O

its reasonable that 2 (more or less isolated) populations have evolved different metas

insanemaniac.2456:

problematic.9623:

1) NA and EU bracket volatility is different. 2) Players on both sides have different methods of compensating for this. When I saw Devon go straight into explaining the mechanics of the matchup I wanted him to stop and acknowledge that the match-up mechanics are not the only process! The players have created their own “process” (which has complicated the design).

So….my input has less to do with the original poster and more to do with communicating the details…. =)

the euros may in general value fair matches more than americans since the degree of server stacking is lower. and thus higher volatility is a source of frustration.

i dont really see players compensating for volatility, i see different volatility as an effect of player attitudes on a large scale o.O

its reasonable that 2 (more or less isolated) populations have evolved different metas

Hey that is excellent feedback insanemaniac! My point of view is from NA bracket and the frustration of population stacking [and community implosions]. I see volatility in the EU matches and think, “Wow, this is not working as intended. The EU bracket should have less volatility considering they have a more even population spread.”

From my point of view again, NA bracket players do change how they play to compensate for the changes over time in the match making process. For example, I avoid tier 1 population servers after my own server population imploded and declined.(there are many different player responses).

“I see different volatility as an effect of player attitudes on a large scale …” This makes sense to me.

But I will argue it is the other way around for NA bracket. On this side….I know [we know] that the population stacking began since launch and would never stop. Currently, there is no mechanic that punishes the behavior and I expect it to continue [until fundamental changes occur]. Does that make sense?

problematic.9623:

Hey that is excellent feedback insanemaniac! My point of view is from NA bracket and the frustration of population stacking [and community implosions]. I see volatility in the EU matches and think, “Wow, this is not working as intended. The EU bracket should have less volatility considering they have a more even population spread.”

id say its working exactly as intended. the tiered matches allowed both server sets to drift apart farther than they should have. eu has recovered from that quicker than na, so theyre probably ready for the future changes the devs intend to make to reduce the random factor a bit. a higher range of likely matchups should be a symptom of recovery, because the problem was that servers drifted too far apart for the rating system to work efficiently.

and overall, if every server is about equal, matchups should be extremely volatile… any server can play any other and have a good match.

problematic.9623:

From my point of view again, NA bracket players do change how they play to compensate for the changes over time in the match making process. For example, I avoid tier 1 population servers after my own server population imploded and declined.(there are many different player responses).

“I see different volatility as an effect of player attitudes on a large scale …” This makes sense to me.

But I will argue it is the other way around for NA bracket. On this side….I know [we know] that the population stacking began since launch and would never stop. Currently, there is no mechanic that punishes the behavior and I expect it to continue [until fundamental changes occur]. Does that make sense?

yeah, anet will need to step in if they ever intend to unstack na.

Thank you for stepping in and sharing! It was informative for me and maybe for others as well.