Guild Wars 2

Muppet.6485:

Theres one you missed, right after i think the 1st checkpoint

If you look right down theres a small waterfall with a lilypad right infront, jump through the waterfall into a shop, will show a screenshot later

I believe that’s just after the 2nd checkpoint.

Niim.9260:

Combatter.5123:

Dear ArenaNet,

Please don’t make WvW abilities too strong. It would be sad if, in a year or so, it becomes really hard for skilful but newbie WvW players as other veteran WvW players are all a lot stronger with their unlocked abilities.

Thanks.

They are not. They are also not interesting, not creative and not based off of a meaningful point metric.

What would be a more ‘meaningful’ point metric? It seems to me that ANet balanced the cost of these upgrades quite well. Extra supply seems to cost as much as every other upgrade combined, and the other upgrades pretty well balanced accordingly.

morrolan.9608:

loseros.5912:

Looks like soon is goong to be the patch day, not before…

The patch page is up but there is not a lot of info on it, basically the supposed WvW patch consists of:
1. the progression system (which is underwhelming)
2. culling fixed
3. leaderboards that also cover sPvP

I’m reasonably happy with this blog post, there’s a bit that we can infer from the picture on the page.

Upgrades are:
+Guard damage
-Damage from Guards
+ damage to mercs and – damage from mercs (presumably hyleks, dredge, etc.)
+Siege Damage
- Damage to Siege
+Supply Carry
“Improve cannon use”
“Improve Ballista skills”

Also we get the relative cost of the skills, Supply being clearly the most desirable and most expensive by far. Also, based on the XP that it takes to get to the next level, it looks like it’s going to be tiered like PvP progression is.

So are we going to get a little more information before patch day?

Monty.8263:

As for Borlis Pass, we are a true pick up group server. We have some organization but not all the time, because organization is the enemy of chaos. I enjoy WvW much more when it embraces the chaos that makes it so much fun for me. As a server we are starting to focus on the fun, which is always a good thing.

I would agree that BP is a PUG server, and as such we’re pretty reliant on having a blue hat in our BL and EB at all times to keep the PUG going. Keeps the fairweather players playin’. I notice a huge difference in what we keep when even an average to mediocre commander is available.

Swamurabi.7890:

A good commander knows where to place siege. A better commander rarely uses siege, especially defensive siege. The best defense is to wipe the attackers.

A good commander doesn’t type. A better commander uses voice chat and the followers use it also. They also don’t yell and scream at the group in voice chat.

A good commander knows the makeup of their group. A better commander knows what tactics (combos) that group can do. They also recognize the tactics of the opposition and know how to counter.

You can tell the better commanders in voice chat. Orders are clearly given, followed by the group without much non-combat static. A good commander will use commands like “push right”, “back up the stairs”, “stack here” instead of “keep up”, “get to my position”, “follow me”

A lot of this advice seems better suited to leading a guild zerg, rather than a PUG. For example, I don’t expect a PUG to be with me in voice chat, and commands, when possible, are best supplemented with using map chat.

Also, a good lineup of arrow carts and ballista can also hold off significantly larger zergs if you have a choke point you need to hold while your zerg goes elsewhere.

Almostfaceman.1804:

An Omega golem and 4 Alpha golems with 50 people on a Sunday night? We get it Borlis Pass, you really really really really really really really want second place.

:-)

I was kind of irritated when that call went out to get people to take over DRs BL, we were so close to taking SM! Luckily EB thought we were all in DR, and didn’t notice when the golems came a knockin’

Plus, I hate kickin’ a man while he’s down as long as EBay is still around to kick.

Wizardauz.3761:

Want to know what the biggest difference between me and you is?

I make money from WvW

You lose money from WvW.

Someone on your team is losing money buying upgrades and siege. I wouldn’t be proud about riding on the pocketbooks of other players.

Wow… ’grats AR, that must have been the luckiest reset ever =\

Follow-up to previous post, individual superior gems are based on demand and whether they can be crafted or not. Divinity runes are good, but they’re expensive not because they’re the best rune, but because they’re not craftable like Scholar runes (arguably better imo). They undoubtedly also get a price bump for having a higher demand just because they’re the most expensive which most people presume means best.

I’ve messed around in the major rune → superior rune mystic forge business for awhile, and historically it was quite profitable when major runes were selling at 5 silver or less. Was also quite interesting to see how price changes in one market affect downstream markets too. The price of superior runes is dependent on a lot of things. It appears to be primarily based on: Price of major runes, price of vile essences, glacial cores, gold doubloons, and filthy essences, all of which can be made into major runes. To a lesser extent also based on the price of superior armor which can be salvaged into runes, ectos, and lv 6 crafting materials.

If anyone is curious about the profitability of rune conversion, see below.

Right now, superior runes sell for an average of 1.25 gold per superior rune, and after the 15% TP fee that’s a return of 1.06 gold per rune. The best price I can get for a major rune to convert to superior is currently 6.13 silver per major rune. My best estimate for the major → superior conversion rate is somewhere between 17% and 20% upconversion rate with a 95% confidence after about 3000 combines. At the prices paid for rune conversion, this means a profitability of between -0.36 silver per combine, and 2.63 silver per combine, with an average of 1.12 silver per combine.

Once you know the upconvert rate, figure out the profitability. Why am I posting this now? Well, in the past I’ve gotten over 3.6 silver per combine, and 1 silver per combine just isn’t profitable enough anymore to bother staying in a market with such large fluctuations in profit =\.

Rogacz.9865:

Thats my point precisly. You do not understand what distinct value is, hence you dont understand that changing distinct value step from 1c, to an ambigous x% distinct value step, creates a profit bracket, making it difficult to estimate potential profits, as well as removing value from 1c at certain (again arbitrary and ambigous) levels, and decreasing the freedom of the sellers (as in, the profit brackets would be arbitrilly imposed by other sellers).

1) I think you mean discrete values, not distinct values.
2) I’m not sure why a good market needs to prioritize giving the trader the ability to conveniently calculate profit over price efficiency.y

TP already uses floating point numbers when eveluating listing fee and net profit.

Listing fee = selling price / 20. Amount of gold sent to seller upon sale = selling price * 9 / 10. Rounding, sure, but no floats.

There already exist profit brackets where goods varying in price, have the same listing fee/net profit due to how rounding works. This is bad. What you are proposing, would spread this problem from the low coppers to the whole range of prices.

What I’m proposing doesn’t change fee mechanisms at all, it just means that if you’re something where the lowest price is 6 silver, you can’t post unless it’s 6 silver or higher, or 5.94 silver or lower.

Rogacz.9865:

No. There is no difference between one arbitrally chosen distinct value and another.

All it would do, would be creating brackets of profitability and broaden the distinct values (for profit calculations) from easy conceptual ‘1c’ to ambigous and prone to computer math issues floating point range – which could encompass anything from 1c to 1g52s34c.03463628 and beyond.

I’m not sure here, but are you trolling or taking my suggestion to be some sort of change the definition of money in the game?

Please read up on data structures so you can understand the way floating point numbers work on computers, and what a distinct value is.

Your post is undermined by your own suggestion to read up on floating point values, which I’d wager the TP code doesn’t contain at all, nor would implementing this suggestion require adding floating point values.

The only change my suggestion would have is to disallow bids between between X-1 price and X-X/100.

Talyjta.9081:

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Because if the amount they lose is so insignificant they don’t give the slightest kitten about it then they don’t deserve to go first.

How, “deserve”? Morally? Then everyone who tries to keep high prices “don’t deserve to make profit”, too.

This kind of change really isn’t about anything moral, but creating a more efficient market.

By requiring that if you undercut you do it by at least, say, 1%, it helps push markets closer to their equilibrium point faster. Equilibrium point being where goods put up for sale equals goods purchased, and where the maximum offer price is about 15% lower than the minimum sale price.

Why is equilibrium good? It gives the best prices for people who buy and sell instantly, and generally speed up the pace that transactions happen. (yes, at a loss to traders who make money on the difference between bid and ask prices)

I agree that the gem to gold ratio probably won’t decrease substantially in the long run, although we could be in a small Wintersday high. There’s more people buying gems with gold right now just because of the new shiny in the BLTC.

I’m also not sure how the addition of the permanent hair style contract, trader pickup, etc. will affect the gem→gold market. They give a new reason for people to buy gold with gems, and could help restrain gem→gold price growth.

That being said, holding a decent amount of gems serves as a great hedge against inflation if you’re so loaded with money you can’t do very much with it practically (i.e. Logun, but you should reasonably be able to get a better return investing in the TP in the long run otherwise

There’s an implementation problem here that’s hard to get around. Say you’re selling 10 of item A, which is currently worth 1 gold. Post 1 for 94 silver, with no fee. Now, since that’s the lowest sell price on the TP, you post the rest of your goods for 99.99 silver with no fee, since you’re no longer technically undercutting anyone.

I would change the system such that you have to undercut the next highest sale price by 1%, even if that price isn’t the lowest sale price.

majorkong.9073:

So what’s the harm? Stuff doesn’t sell? Because my stuff sells almost always and in a reasonable period of time.

Undercutting by 1 copper doesn’t bring prices to equilibrium fast enough. Sure, it’s great for the seller who just posted their good because now they’re at the head of the queue, but it doesn’t generate much benefit for the economy as a whole.

penatbater.4710:

@logun and other traders

slightly off topic, but what do you do when only a part of your sell orders were filled? From his example, say he was only able to sell ~3-4k bone chips at that price, or his sell orders were undercut by another power trader?

Hold on to it until the price goes up, or sell at a loss, if you think it’ll go down further. A lot like what you do in real life if a stock you own has swung downward.

I’m sure there are people who will never understand that there’s economically no difference between someone who does market making in this game, and a retail store. But this post isn’t really for them. Really more for the people who learn from the dialogue, and don’t feel the need to post because other people here are already defending the point well.

All that being said, I admit that there’s more than enough to fill up a post on how power traders can make lots of money without providing any economic benefit.

Yes, seriously. This isn’t meant to be a defense of every way to make money on the TP, but rather focuses on the two most commmon methods of market making (or ‘flipping’), and mystic forging.

Market Making is when you’re submitting buy orders and sell orders on a single product at the same time, and taking advantage of the price difference. How is it productive? The more people market making, and the faster that they trade, they more the sale price is pushed down, and the bid price pushed up, approaching equilibrium. How does this help Average Joe? Well he is much more likely to buy or sell instantly than the power trader. Because the power traders, by competing with each other, have pushed the sale price down, and the bid price up, Joe is able to buy the item cheaper, and if it drops for him while leveling, he can sell it instantly (his personally preferred method) for more money.

Now, if every player chose to submit sell orders instead of selling instantly, there’s an argument you could make that the power trader is ‘stealing’ those profits. But they don’t. And a lot of the time it just makes sense to buy items instantly. In defense of buying instantly, consider that a level 20 dagger doesn’t help you if you don’t get it until you’re level 25.

Mystic Forging: Players making money at the mystic forge do it by taking advantage of market inefficiencies where the cost of ingredients is less than the average value of the result. Take item A worth 1s, and item B worth 10s. If you could transmute 4 of item A into one of item B, you’re making a profit and helping out the rest of the economy.

Why is this the case? Consider what would happen if nobody took advantage of that recipe. There’d be a lot more of item A on the market, reducing their price, and fewer of item B’s, increasing their price. For Average Joe, it means that he can sell his less useful item A’s for a better price, and buy item B’s for less. Sure, he could theoretically make the most money by mystic forging item A into B, but that’s an unreasonable expectation for every player. Substitute ‘crafting’ with ‘mystic forging’ and the principle still works. In the real world, mystic forging type activity goes by another name. Manufacturing, buying less valuable products, doing ‘stuff’ to it, and selling the results.

Now, like I said, this isn’t a defense of every method of making money on the TP. Ways of manipulating prices like cornering the Market can produce profit for the power trader while not adding economic value.

Thinking on it a little more, a max purchase for feature really isn’t compatible with a system that lists the highest bid anyway.

Just a nitpick but I think ‘flipping’ is much more akin to market making than the colloquial use of the term (“Flip that house!”) If you could set a maximum price that you would buy an item at, there’d be much less of a need for very active trading.

I suspect ANet might not want to do that because such a system would benefit very well capitalized traders more, and make it harder for people to get a foothold as a trader.

Gilosean.3805:

Who gets hurt?
TL;DR – Flippers and middlemen are useful in real life where transportation and business finances are actually a problem to address. Having them in-game makes GW2 economic activity a problem for everyone who doesn’t ‘play’ the market, turns the PvE game into a PvP game, and messes up incentives to play the open world.

Flippers in game do serve a productive economic purpose. For people who choose to buy immediately and sell immediately (almost always regular players), flippers bring the prices closer to equilibrium (convergence of buy and sell price 15% apart), which means giving more money to those that sell immediately, and offering lower prices to those that buy immediately. Someone is always paying in liquidity in the TP (investing money or goods by putting it in an order that doesn’t get fulfilled right away). There’s no way around the fact that such a person should have a higher profit margin in a transaction than the person who gets their order fulfilled immediately.

If I invested money into providing a large number of armors at the cheapest price, I am in fact a storefront waiting for customers who come in, buy immediately, and leave, and I should therefore be awarded with a profit.

ANet didn’t put creating efficient markets as their #1 priority when they structured the TP. Instead, they seem to have prioritized its use as a money sink with relatively stable prices.

If creating efficient markets was their #1 priority, we’d be able to set a maximum price that we would buy items at, and a minimum price which we would sell at. In such a situation, there’d be a lot fewer opportunities to arbitrage, many of which come from people placing buy orders 1c higher, and sell orders 1c lower. They do a pretty well at getting price stability from the listing fee, however.

All that being said, I personally I’d be thrilled with such a change. It would encourage people to use the sell instantly option more, and I’m almost always submitting buy orders, rather than selling instantly.

Valento.9852:

Make precursors souldbound or acc bound. Let’s see what happens.

That’d be a much better idea if there was only one precursor for all weapon types. What is an elementalist going to do with Dusk though? Level an alt to 80 and save it for them?

When I was started I did it in low-mid level weapons and armor. A lot of items have a 200+% profit margin in that category from just submitting the highest buy order and undercutting the lowest sell by 1c. Many of the items with good stat combinations like carrion go reasonably quickly, too.

People are much more likely to buy an item instantly while leveling up than at level 80. A level 23 dagger doesn’t do you any good if you’ve leveled up to 28 by the time someone sells it to you, but at level 80 people tend to be less picky about when they get an item off the TP. Generally it means that they only people you’re competing with are other traders in that section of the market, and most serious power traders aren’t in that part of the market because nobody pulling in 50g a day wants to fiddle around with dozens of armor listings that only bring in a 6s profit each.

I’m sure this was a conscious decision on their part. For every person who’s confused that the listing fee isn’t included in that box, there’s probably someone who would be confused if it was. Less well informed people may think that they’re paying the listing fee and a 15% sell tax on top.

If you’re really using the profit box to calculate how much you’re going to get from a sale, just mentally subtract the listing fee from the projected profit.

The box is of limited value anyway, since it doesn’t include, say, how much you could make from vendoring the item or what you paid for it if you’re flipping it.