Guild Wars 2

Chip H.3951:

Art.7628:

Actually, I think it is you who is missing the point. Unfortunately you derive your opinion and state statistics that do not exist. Such as “most players”.

No, it’s you that is missing he point.

If GW2 didn’t exist, ANet still has several million game sales and a persistent player base over seven years time with GW1, a game that was even more blunt with the “skins is all ye get!” design philosophy to understand exactly the whys and whats of what they’re doing with the carrotless endgame.

There was some stupid hard content in parts of that game that you were not going to be doing with heroes, were not going to be doing with just any old PUG, and were not going to be doing with just any old build. Yet, tons of people got the necessary teams and gear together, practiced, and mastered the stupid hard content essentially for skins.

So, they already know it works for a lot of people, but they also already know a lot of people aren’t motivated by it and get off their servers and stop costing them money. As long as those people feel like they got their money’s worth, they’ll be back when there’s new content, paid or otherwise.

They’ve provided a game that can entertain the right audience pretty much indefinitely with the same design philosophy that kept the servers up and running for over seven years with GW1, so long as the rest of the players go do something else feeling happy about their experience, it’s a win-win. If you think about it for even a little bit, you have to realize that there clearly never was any intention whatsoever to try and keep every person who buys this game occupied continuously for the next 18 (or even 6) months straight.

Approaching a straight up buy to play MMORPG that doesn’t even have enough universally appealing cash shop stuff to do much more than represent a four month subscription fee for a traditional MMO and then asking why they haven’t designed the game around the more widely appealing constant carrot mechanics to keep you playing non-stop shows a lack of deep thinking about how all the pieces fit together to make something like this actually work.

Okay, this is not the same point you were making previously. Also, I am not even sure what or who you are arguing with here.

I partly agree and when you state that players will come back when there is content that appeals to them is partly what I want. I don’t know when this became a discussion as to ArenaNet’s goals, but you are still obviously missing my point.

I do not know any other reward system that properly appeals to those not interested in cosmetics and considers themselves hardcore (as I consider myself) besides gear progression. Which is why I created this thread. The whole point was to implore ArenaNet to creating a reward system that caters to my demographic so I can enjoy the game as I have done other MMOs that delivered in the past.

Please, reevaluate your argument and stop fighting with yourself.

DusK.3849:

Art

Their goal, despite what you believe/use to support your post, is to compete with WoW.

I’m sure you have a source for this (LOL you don’t, we both know it). Maybe one that contradicts what Colin Johanson says about not considering WoW direct competition in this video.

And funny, you throwing “casual” around like an insult. Especially considering that, with most games, anything that would allow a player of lesser skill to beat a player of greater skill (such as better gear) is considered the “casual” element of said game.

Maybe you should read the second sentence of my statement. The trailer was an obvious foreshadowing. Also, you are using the context of his statement to support your post when in fact, it does not. They do not CONSIDER them direct competition because of the different transaction model, but that does not mean it is not competing with it. Releasing a game within a genre automatically makes you compete with any other title within that genre. The current GW2 MT model and non-subscription model is genius because no game is going to compete with WoW for a subscription (since most players will not subscribe to more than one game), especially with MOP on the horizon of GW2’s release. It would be suicide if they decided on a subscription model and not obtaining the many players they did by not having one. For example: most players would not even have purchased the box if there was a subscription model as opposed to getting the game into many more homes by not having that stipulation.

Also, my whole point is not to bash casuals. I just believe there should be sufficient amount of reward for every type of player. Casual and hardcore included. Currently, the reward system and structure seems very casual oriented and does not cater to those not interested in cosmetics.

Another thing, if it may seem like I am using casual as an insult—I very may be in certain situations. I think way too many time casuals continuously stomp their feet on forums or wherever and get their way. When, in fact, they do not even know what THEY want due to extreme inexperience. A perfect example of this would be combat log discussions on the SWTOR forums.

gurugeorge.9857:

Art.7628:

Let me stand out. Let me be stronger to others for defeating STRONGER content. ArenaNet… let me be rewarded.

Do not want. Plenty other games with this. Go play them.

Its disgusting you actually got a vote up. To everyone engaged in this conversation you made yourself look like an idiot.

Read the entire OP or don’t post. Stop expecting people to take your opinion into consideration while being completely inconsiderate.

P.S. You sound just like the SWTOR forums did…. Learn something.

The baseless “this game takes skill”, “we want an even playing field” and “cosmetics are enough reward” among other arguments against DPS meters and gauging all fall under one category to me. That category isn’t innovation or success… it’s casual/carebear/easy mode.

This game’s innovation has a lot of potential and I would hate to see it ruined by masking an inability to provide proper reward/reaching out to all types of players due to the casual market… once again.

Unfortunately right now, people are confusing innovation with appealing to the casual. This doesn’t work for longevity. It has been proven over and over again.

Hsinimod.5784:

Art, I think you are missing the point.

Many are fine with the cosmetic rewards. They do the dungeons for fun, knowing they don’t want the content. They want to complete the world, and they already have the look they want.

This is their game. If they run out of content, they’ll quit and come back later. It’s free.

If others are disappointed and feel “done”, then they are disappointed and done. They played the game and finished it, and it doesn’t really apply to them. They most likely are going to enjoy a different type of MMO. GW2 doesn’t need to be the “everything” MMO.

Anet can always patch in new content and a new direction. But that is guessing at far off down the line. For now, it is not what this game is.

Basically, enough of the playerbase is fine with the current system of rewards. WoW and the MMOs like it, the playerbase wanted stat progression but others hated it. GW2 is for the “others hated it” group. Stat progression is no longer an element, and it is about fun. If you aren’t having fun anymore, you really are done until new content brings you back. No sub, so we can feel guilt free about that.

Just take a break until it appeals again.

Actually, I think it is you who is missing the point. Unfortunately you derive your opinion and state statistics that do not exist. Such as “most players”.

Only time will tell the future and longevity of this title and I am only posting my opinions on what I believe will be an undesirable outcome. Which brings me to the second point where I think you are incredible misinformed or falling short of understanding ArenaNet’s goal. Their goal, despite what you believe/use to support your post, is to compete with WoW. A perfect example of this was their recent trailer. It was an obvious foreshadowing.

I appreciate you keeping things mature and I am not berating you in any way. I like having an educated discussion/debate. Just wanted to put that out there in case I seem a bit hostile in my replies.

Making the game numerically harder just causes frustration and is a cheap way out. Engaging content isn’t formed from scaled difficulty based on numbers, it is when it is scaled based on mechanics. In a case like WoW, they mix them both.

Now, while I agree that innovating away from the gear grind is a good idea and I am in NO WAY saying ArenaNet should change their philosophy.

What I am saying is that a game that has longevity (which we hope GW2 to have) does not turn away a certain demographic, it welcomes all kinds of players. Currently, GW2 pushes away anyone who doesn’t like cosmetics.

No matter how engaging the content, one thing is for certain among MMO players. We want to be REWARDED. There is a large number of players that simply DO NOT care about armor dyes, titles, achievements and rare skins. ArenaNet needs to find a way to reward these types of players or it is going to lose to WOW and MOP due to their ability to cater to every kind of player.

It is as simple as that. It is not that the current reward system is bad. It just simply is not enough. There are too many gaps for certain players and the rewards system seems too casual. While casual may make up the general player base in today’s MMOs, it is usually the heavy players that dictate it’s future.

Right Loxias, which is where I stand.

I am not saying that it has to be stat increases or unfair advantage, but as good as this game is with the potential it has—without a proper rewards system the game will fall to MOP. I do not want to see this happen.

Also, without the separation of who puts the time in, it just becomes a glorified co-op game, not an MMO. FPS/SPRPG elements do not work as a form of end game (my definition of end game differs as it means continuous play to me).

For all the people saying go to another game… or “deal with it”, read the entire post. You sound incredibly stupid jumping to the conclusion I am asking for them to make content rewards stronger gear.

The whole point of the thread was to implore ArenaNet to tell me what besides cosmetics is going to make me play the game for long periods of time. The problem with skins is once you find one that you like, there is no point to farming more.

So, again, has there been something announced that I am missing? Are there things to come I am missing? I am explaining how REWARD plays a tremendous role in the longevity of an MMO. It is what keeps people going.

So what will be the carrot in this game? The whole “it is skins, deal with it or leave” is not a good mentality to have. And if you were around during SWTOR development and failure, you would see that that very attitude led to its demise.

Grow up and if you plan on discussing the thread—read it. Otherwise you make yourself sound exactly how you are contrasting. Stop arguing with yourself.

Hello all.

I am going to try to discuss my concern/question the best I can with the intention of avoiding flaming and/or ridicule. Please, this is not a discussion or comparison to WoW or any other MMO so do not reply with any insinuations.

The one thing that has me concerned about the game is what exactly will drive me to coniniously play. Now, we all know content is the driving force behind a healthy, extended career within the title; but another very important entity goes hand in hand. That is REWARD.

I understand and respect the philosophy that GW2 tries to make gear less of a necessity and more of a luxury. I commend them for it. But are skins or achievements enough to keep me going. The thing I loved most about MMOs is the social show off aspect of the genre. It is why I DO NOT play any other genres. Currently, the only reason to revisit more difficult content is to get skins and achievements. But there is nothing like getting a new item after completing content and having it reflect on your performance. It is a continuing show of your accomplishments for everyone to see. But, you may say that skins server the same purpose; but I say they do not. Upon finding a skin I fall in love with, I find it hard to want to do content that lacks reward. Now, I give you full permission to blame it on the fact that lack of innovation in other titles has forced me to think that a stat increase serves as the best “carrot on a stick”, but what this thread is is a plea to show me otherwise.

What in this game is going to make me want to keep completing content and pushing forward? Many people knock implementations such as DPS meters, but one HUGE aspect of such addons was something very rarely mentioned. The battle with the man in the mirror. The constant competing with yourself to top what you did last. Whether it be in a dungeon or elsewhere.

Maybe this is more along the lines of a PVE discussion since PVP gives you the name and the respect of building a reputation. But to me, in PVE, nothing is better than looking ridiculously strong in front of other people because you completed content they couldn’t or haven’t yet.

I see many positives in this gear system GW2 has invoked but this flaw is lingering ever so heavily. It feels like too much of a casual approach. Yes, I applaud how much GW2 feels like an old school MMO with the openness and difficulty scale, but why should I be on the same playing field and someone who hasn’t done what I have done. What if a person who doesn’t have half my skill gets the skin he loves and looks just as badkitten as I do, yet he hasn’t done a third of the content I have?

Let me stand out. Let me be stronger to others for defeating STRONGER content. ArenaNet… let me be rewarded.

What are your plans?

P.S. Please make achievements and other aspects show in guild chat. No one sees the thing and my guild of 45 members is like a ghost town. GChat needs to be more active.

Switch.8520:

There is already a dive animation

How do I do it?

I absolutely love the game and the thing that keeps me going while leveling is not only the compelling combat, but the desire to get cool/stronger gear.

This is kind of where their system bothers me. I understand the goal to have gear not a skill gauge, but the carrot in front of the face sets goals for people. Currently, the only reason to PVP or to do their version of end-game is for item skins.

I want to see collectibles, vanity or otherwise which allow you to show off your progress. Maybe specific weapons that have a slight advantage and glow at the blade or something.

People hate DPS meters and gear but those implementations aren’t just about gauging performance. I loved trying to out DPS myself in dungeons in WoW and that made me want to do content over and over again.

Give us some type of ranking system, performance gauges and show-off/advantage items to set goals for and the game will be perfect.

Nothing gets me immersed more than defeating a foe with the quick blades of my thief then jumping off the cliff into the water only to have the camera be submerged with my character displaying a gorgeous panoramic view of the instant change of scenery.

Oh yeah, the only thing that would make this better is a dive animation. GIVE US ONE!

thxkbai

Really? No one? Can we get something on this?

It is getting really bad.

Ability delay is one of those things I absolutely cannot stand and why I hated so many other MMOs. This game’s engine does not have ability delay, but the server lag causes it.

Also, random freezing and shudders feel like control is being stripped from me.

Please fix

Are there any plans to post news updates as to what features we are all hoping will be implemented? I am nlt talking patch notes, I am talking news about larger future patches For example a forum post listing all the things planned for bigger patches such as enabling duels, arenas or the like. These are examples, but I would just like to read what’s the future going to look like for us.

Also, please remove the thread lock and disciplinary moderator posts from the dev tracker.

Thanks.

Lets not turn this into the DPS meter thread from SWTOR.

DPS meters are detrimental. This game is highly based on skill so they will not be needed as much as games like WoW when gauging performance, but it is a MUST have for guild leaders like myself who need to see which member is doing his job.

It also helps gauge encounters professionally and create offline communities via theory crafting.

There are other benefits as well. Naysayers, please do not look at DPS meters as a simple thing. They are not and to say you fear egos or people gauging your performance through them, do not raid or group with any one hardcore. It is as simple as that. I would not be the player I am today without the leaders who pushed me to do better and gave me detrimental advice based on what they reviewed from things such as DPS meters.

Bluebird.1890:

SteamRanger.5167:

No thank you. It would be different if people knew how to duel one another without being a complete nuisance to the majority of other people around them. Since people have no regard for others, it is much better for ArenaNet to give this “feature” a pass. There are plenty of other games where you can indulge yourselves. Pick one.

Every game that features duel requests features an interface option to ignore duel requests automatically.

Your point is moot.

We will have dueling.

This.

Also, completely disregarding a feature because you simply don’t want it for whatever deep rooted over-emotional issue is extremely selfish.

Those games have options to turn off duel requests. I am sure you can do the same to not be bothered. This is one of those things that is not a discussion whether or not the game should have it as it can be easily avoided for those who do not want it. On the other hand can be available to those who do as opposed to completely omitting an extremely popular feature.

P.S. By the sound of your post, it sounds like you’re bad. People don’t know how to duel? How does that make you angry unless you were owned because of this “lack”.

mulch.2586:

I thought sPvP was the same as WoW’s arena. For the non-WoW-fanbois, what’s the diff, aside from being skill-based vs gear-based?

2v2, 3v3, seasons that rank your performance, titles, mounts (ill leave this out since GW2 doesn’t have any). I could go on but..

aedra.8361:

No thanks. Part of the appeal of this game is gearless pvp. Even Blizzard themselves admitted arena was a mistake if i recall correctly.

The reason Blizzard stated this was a mistake was because of the inability to completely balance PVP and PVE. Also, the fact that arena forced certain combinations as a min/max perspective. Guild Wars 2 does not use a trinity and is extremely skill based, not simply numeric like WoW.

With Guild Wars 2 system, you can easily have a plethora of successful profession combinations with fights not lasting too long such as heal/DPS combo flaws.

/signed

I would also like to see 2v2, 3v3 and 5v5 arena. Also, maybe a season so we can build ranks.

Is there any hope/goal to have this staggering issue fixed? It ruins how beautiful everything looks. My weapons are hidden behind clipping chest pieces.

I think the game is amazing and I love how it brings the old school MMO feel of a HUGE world with a solid difficulty out the gate.

My issue is the poor design with leveling XP though. Having to do to other start zones to catch up with the appropriate level for the next area does not feel right. A good solution would be giving killing MOBs more XP.

Also, since this is not a subscription based MMO—will there be major content/fix patches? I really want to see this game continuously update like other MMOs.

Ugh… one part of me knows I will level fast because I am experienced in the game now, but the other side of me doesn’t want to do it because of all the Karma I have, the profession leveling I have achieved and all the sick abilities I just got.

It is unfortunate that I am extremely cosmetic oriented. It is bothering me SO MUCH that my character does not look the way I want him to. ;/

Hey all. First, I would like to say I am a long time ranked WoW player and this game is a SURPRISING breath of fresh air and the most responsive, engaging and polished MMO I have ever played besides WoW.

I finally found something to play along side it!

Now, for my two part question and suggestion. Guild Wars 1 allowed you to purchase character re-creation. My level 22 thief does not look the way I want him to. Are there plans to add this to the gem store? IF SO, how long do you think until it is implemented?

The reason I ask the second, because if it will be a while, I will just re-create my character.

My suggestion is that you put the height slider in foot and inches. I thought my character was tall enough but he is way too small.

Thanks all!