Guild Wars 2

I run dungeons: AC, CM, SE mostly.

Don’t get me wrong. Consecrations are often useful, but they are also often on cooldown. The 10% bonus DPS from elusive power is up whenever you’re under 100% endurance.

With the version of the max hammer DPS I use, I lose some uptime on consecrations (when I slot them), but I gain a 10% damage multiplier for the hammer (and it’s symbol of protection), and two 10% damage multipliers for the sword. I also pick up utility with focus. Basically, more hammer DPS and swapping the utility of extra consecration uptime for Shield of wrath blocks and zealot’s defense reflects.

I think, DPS aside, the added uptime for WoR provided by MoC << than WoR without MoC + Shield of wrath blocks and zealot’s defense reflects.

But utility aside, this is a DPS thread, and that build was called out as the “max DPS hammer” build. My point was that the change should increase DPS.

“Honor stops being good after 10 for GS + Sword/Focus builds and 20 for Hammer builds.”

Why does honor stop being good after 20? For PVE I play a version of your max DPS Hammer build (your build is 15/25/0/20/10). I run something similar, 15/25/0/25/5.

The extra 5 in honor adds another 10% damage multiplier whenever endurance is less than 100% (it’s not hard to keep that bonus in play the majority of the time). You lose master of consecrations, which is situational. I also drop your torch trait in radiance, and pick up powerful blades to run with a Hammer/Sword-Focus.

Here’s my build (using your runeset, which is what I’m working toward): http://tinyurl.com/nrtvfye

It’s not a big change, but I’m just curious why honor stops being good after 20 for hammer builds. You clearly know more about theorycraft than I do, so I’m wondering what I’m missing.

Thanks, Thorwyn. And you’re not offending me. ; )

@Thorwyn: Thanks for posting your build! I see all of the group support that you were talking about. I’ve tried to update my build above to give similar type support (see below). One question, though, why do you trait master of consecrations when you don’t have any consecration skills on your utility bar?

Here is my updated version, trying to think more in terms of group play (trying my best to shed the solo PvE thinking!).

Here’s the build: http://tinyurl.com/ojsv7uy

Here’s a summary of changes…

Replaced Renewed Focus with Tome of Courage: Bolsters team support with added heals and condition removal.

Replaced signet of resolve with litany of wrath: This allows for heals every 24 seconds rather than every 40, and with monk’s focus, it heals for 4150 plus damage over the next six seconds. If you can deal 4750 damage over six seconds, then you heal just as well with litany as with the signet. Symbols help bolster damage.

Replaced Bane Signet with Save Yourselves (and traited for shouts): Replaced Writ of Exaltation (honor III) with Superior Aria (honor II) and Bane Signet with Save Yourselves. This means that you draw all conditions from nearby allies every 48 seconds. You then convert all of those conditions to boons with Contemplation of Purity (which is on the same cooldown as Save Yourselves).

Replaced Knight’s gear from previous build with cleric’s Improves healing from symbols and selfless daring.

Swapped Mace/Focus for Greatsword: Additional ally condition cleanse with Ray of Judgment. Replaces Symbol of Wrath (retaliation) with Symbol of Faith (regeneration). Traited Mace of Justice (Valor VII) instead of Retributive Armor (Valor VI) to add 5% to mace damage and add 250 to healing power. Using a sigil of force and sigil of energy to get more evades (better defense and more group healing).

Replaced Two-Handed Mastery with Writ of the Merciful To add area effect healing to symbols.

Team support through symbols:
- Can keep regeneration up for the area 75% of the time (on mace), or Protection up for the area 100% of the time (on hammer); or some combination of the two.

- Through writ of the merciful, you provide area effect healing of 170 with each pulse. Can keep symbols up at least 75% of the time. This is in addition to the regeneration directly from Symbol of Life.

- Do area effect damage (about ~530 with each pulse), adding to group’s DPS with constant pressure.

@Thorwyn: I’m sure you’re right that my build is selfish… like I said, I’m very new to WvW and spent my PvE time mostly soloing, so my build is very much influenced by that.

@Tongku: Some helpful points, and some not so helpful points. Bad runeset? A lot of people seem to run Divinity; I far prefer Pack runes. The 165 Power from pack gives a greater boost to damage than the +60 to power and precision and the 12% critical damage combined. And then pack throws in an additional 100 precision. Cheaper yes… better, too. I don’t run them for the 25% swiftness uptime… that’s juts bonus when/if I run retreat.

I have fought some zergs and got owned in one, and held up well in a couple. I had a blast in the process (and helped take down several of the other zerg). To be honest, I couldn’t tell you if stability was up or not—-the pace of WvW is much faster than PvE and I didn’t catch what boons were on (I look out more for conditions). I was able to clear conditions fairly well, though. I’m not sure how your suggestions above would improve my condition cleanse.

It sounds like the only “good” build based on Thorwyn and Tongku’s feedback is a shout build. Is that the case? Is every decent WvW build a shout build (probably an AH shout build, it sounds like)?

@Tongku: That 0/5/30/30/5 build you mention above; the trait distribution isn’t all that different from mine. Why would a 10/0/30/30/0 be so much worse. You lose the area effect blind from 5 in radiance (and the might from VoJ and protection from VoC, but the build I posted above has plenty of protection). But by traiting zeal instead of 5 into radiance and virtues you get an extra symbol of wrath when you do start to take heavy damage, and you deal 10% more damage to burning enemies (which there are many of). So this is really trading the three stacks of might for a limited time for +10% damage against burning foes. The latter seems like it would give you better overall damage. Either way, it doesn’t seem like a clear “this is always better than that”.

If a shout build is where it’s at, then how’s this: http://tinyurl.com/poovrer ? (Which has you group condition cleanse, but is much more susceptible to conditions itself than the original build I posted above).

I’m sure this seems defensive. But simply getting a “you’re biuld sucks” and “this is why it sucks” doesn’t help me as much as “this is how you can make your build better”.

Alternatives:
I situationally drop Bane Signet for one of these other skills:

-judge’s intervention (another teleport, stun break; some added burning, and additional 2000 heal; also synergizes well with fiery wrath (zeal II);

-purging flames (fire field; and outstanding condition removal with smite condition and contemplation of purity; synergy with fiery wrath; you could drop contemplation of purity for judge’s intervention and purging flames for max burning with this build);

-save yourselves (I love retaliation… I add this just for that boon; but it also synergizes VERY well with contemplation of purity—-you could drop writ of exaltation (Honor III) and replace it with superior aria (Honor II) to keep contemplation of purity and save yourselves on the same cooldown);

-wall of reflection (karmic justice for those not willing to slug things out).

If in a small raiding party, I sometimes drop retributive armor (Valor VI) and replace it with strength in numbers (Valor IV).

Quirky alternative:
Maybe it’s just me, but I have fun surviving jumps off ledges that should down me. So I sometimes swap Zeal III (Protector’s Impact) for Zeal II (Fiery Wrath); not recommended if you’re expecting a tough fight… But it’s fun when exploring!
—-

Side note: My guardian’s name is Vaedryan. Look me up if you’d like to run PVE content or for WvW (I’m on Maguuma).

Equipment:
I run a combination of soldier’s and knight’s (I also run this gear in PVE). Relative to full zerker gear, you’re theoretically giving up about 10% direct damage (including damage from crits, but not from conditions). The benefit is that you improve the amount of damage that you can sustain by over 160% (due to an 84% increase in vitality and 43% increase in toughness; this does not include boon benefits from your protection).

This set-up also just better-suits my play-style—-fewer evades makes it easier for me to keep track of the battlefield, stay with my target, and/or spend more time in my symbols. For me, this adds up to significantly more damage output in real gameplay than zerker gear would. Just know that your mileage may vary.

Build’s weaknesses
-In-combat mobility: Melee-only means you have to stay on your target, which isn’t always easy in WvW (for me, anyway). To finish others off, you need to rely on your control skills (you have one or two on every bar, so that helps).

-Escape: If you’re in a losing fight and there is no clear escape (e.g., off a tower wall), just go down swinging… it’s pointless to try to outrun others with this build. I think this is a general issue for Guardians, though, and not just this build. I’ve found that retreat does not solve this issue, so I don’t generally run it.

Build’s benefits
-Good sustain: Armor sits at just over 3300. Health sits at over 19000. You get 2000 health heals from meditations (in addition to your signet or shelter).

-Good damage output: Though not a pure DPS build, you get an attack of ~3750, with okay crit chance (30%) and crit damage (40%). You also benefit from dishing damage through symbols. Two-handed mastery reduces cooldowns by 20% on both weapons, which helps boost damage.

-Good symbol synergy: Protection (Hammer 1.3), Wrath (Greatsword 4, Zeal 5), Persistent (Honor VII), and enlarged (Honor III). This all adds up to good uptime on protection and five-second retaliation from symbols, plus some additional pulse damage to boost your DPS.

-Good control: Immobilize (zealot’s embrace), Ward/Capture (ring of warding), launch (banish), Pull (binding blade), and knockdown (bane signet)

I read in a few recent posts that the “new meta” is 20/25/0/0/25, and that hammers are for “old folks”. My build uses the opposite of the “new meta”, it’s (10/0/30/30/0), and it uses a hammer… so it may be total trash! :P

I’ve just started playing WvW after playing only PVE (personal story and some dungeons). Finding the margin for error to be a lot less in WvW than PVE, I have thought more carefully about my build. This is my first attempt at trying to put one together from the ground up. I’m currently rank 6 in WvW (very new!), so this is all still a work in process and based on my early experiences.

Any feedback from WvWers out there—-changes to the build, or what role you see the build best-suited for in WvW?

Here’s the link to the build:
Symbitation build: http://tinyurl.com/ojsv7uy

Here’s the original (this was the build before incorporating feedback below; this version is better when solo, but offers far less team support; same trait distribution): http://tinyurl.com/oc2ppvl