Showing Posts For Aura.1645:
I still completely fail to see how this is creating wealth from nothing, at least anymore so than crafting rares and creating more wealth by salvaging than you paid for the materials.
To the cold, cold hand of the market … there is zero difference between using wheelbarrows of existing mats to make a 2s profit vs using a handful of special mats to make a 20s profit. Both are “stuff goes in … profit comes out.”
ANet though have to consider “risk vs reward”, much like a casino. If a casino put a new slot machine in that was basically guaranteed to give the player money, the casino would flip the kitten out and have that sucker shut down instantly. In their minds there is probably a set “win” percentage, or profit amount that they feel is acceptable.
Because you can throw some t5’s in and come out slightly ahead? That won’t really be on their radar … you’re making a small profit that will be negated instantly if the price of ectos drops a little or the cheapest t5 mats get used up, or more ANets style, a string of bad RNG.
Ding!, why can’t the economy 101 kids in here get this.
If you wonder why others have 1000’s of gold and you have nothing it is most likely due to your own inability to see opportunity.
No, it is due to me being honest.
It’s okay. There are always cheaters in the game. You are one. You are now rich by using what Anet called an exploit. Congratulations. I hope you enjoy your 50 gold.
Anet posts about a cheat, you do it, you make 50 gold. That is cheating. It really is THAT simple.
Now, I understand that you have some last shred of decency left and that you won’t feel good about yourself when you call yourself a cheater. So, you call it something else. You call yourself an opportunist, even though you use something that Anet calls a cheat. That’s okay, self-delusion is important, it just means that you still have some sort of conscience left.
There is still hope for you!
You are throwing a tantrum like a little baby. I am making tailored gear with T5 materials. I am selling the ectos out of it. The recipes are valid. The gold I am making is not an exploit. Learn how to make money if you want it so badly and stop crying so much.
I’ve made ~50 gold in the last two hours doing the same thing that this recipe had to be ‘suspended’ for. The markets are out of balance, it has nothing to do with this as a glitch or hack recipe. If it was suspended because you could make money salvaging they would have to suspend half the recipes at the moment. If you want to make money stop crying exploiters and mulling over their justified punishment and start using your noggin.
If you wonder why others have 1000’s of gold and you have nothing it is most likely due to your own inability to see opportunity.
The equation for those who are curious about the returns on investment.
Cost
Snowflake + Ecto = 50 Silver (80% Retention Rate) ~ 10 Silver loss
Mithril = 6.4 Silver16.4 Silver for a lv 75 Rare Ecto Drop Chance.
With T5 Mats trading at 80 copper right now
T5 = 12 Silver
Silk = .5 Silver
Silk Spools = 5 Silver17.5 Silver per Salvage
These are the rates the markets were at when they shut the loophole. Yes you could use a black lion kit for a 100% retention rate, but each salvage would cost you 25 silver if you bought the black lion kit making it all worthless. Hopefully some of you guys out there understand the math and realize this was not nearly as lucrative as people thought.
The people who made the big margins were those who knew how to get the flakes really cheap, being a smart trader is not an exploit. These were the market margins.
You are honestly calling for a ban on people for making rares one silver cheaper than you can make them at this second. I hope you take a second and realize how quickly you guys overreact.
You are mistaken. There were several recipes that produced significantly more output than the input required and could be easily and reliably cycled without using Black Lion kits.
You are correct playing the market is not exploiting, but finding a loop that reliably produces more and more items in a cycle is an exploit. Check out the name of this thread.@kaffaljidhma.1496
If this is what you are talking about it sounds like making mithril jewels was fair game, and some undisclosed behavior was actually the cause of shutting the recipe down. No worries man. I don’t think you did anything wrong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man ALL OVER THE PLACE, learn to construct an argument please.
You also seem to seriously lack any sort of understanding in probability.
If i am a leather worker and do T5 crafting, 15 large scales + Small pickins in thick leather (Yes you constantly assume no one here knows of this SUPER SECRET kitten), There is way less profit. For there to be the same profit, the leather armor would have to return 15 T5 materials 80% of the time (like the earrings)… GET IT?
(edited by Aura.1645)
I don’t think so, or else we’ll see someone putting up “PLS UNBAN ME ANET IM SORRY”. This really sets a bad tone for how they handle “exploits”. (even that can be argued, as this is merely a gross oversight on their part).
Gross oversight – Exploitable mechanic
Stop trolling, it’s becoming too obvious. But your trolling sparks an interesting question. Who are the exploiters here? Do they track who bought snowflakes at 2 silver and created the items. Cut it off at 10 silver? 20 silver? Depends if the person made gold off of it? Ban everyone who made a single snowflake? Temp suspensions for anyone who made over X snowflakes? What about people who took notice and bought up all the snowflakes? Bought up the mithril?
What about the threads in the crafting section asking why jewelcrafter rares require ectos at all to make? JC is the only prof where you can’t make rares for an ecto conversion. To the average person the new recipes looked like a reprieve from the overly expensive current rare 80 necks/rings/earrings.
What I’m getting at is there isn’t a very clear line on who did wrong, who intended to do wrong etc. Like I said I came late to the so called party before I even saw this thread and found the recipe not worth pursuing or capable of generating much gold. Hell if you read the first couple posts in this thread others found the exact same thing. Are they exploiters? Ban those who made no money off of this? I’m not sure and it’s not my job to judge, but I hope whatever call A-net makes is the best decision.
People who made 100+ gold should be suspended/account restored. Why that number? Because 99 gold is just as good, but 100 sounds nicer.
I think anet should account restore the exploiters back in time! That’s a good fix, the punishment is removal of their time, and they can still do the Christmas stuff starting now.
I don’t mind annoying you.
My numbers are correct.
I am not blind. (My mother had me tested)
Straw man all over the place…
I think you are the one struggling with numbers if you are getting annoyed.
Look @ your post?, But you have been wrong about every point so far.
The REAL costs? Ah, what we re-sellers made you exploiters pay to use the exploit? I see.
I’m sorry, I bought about 150k of them @ 2silver per, then resold to exploiters, I fail to see how I did not buy them at 2silver each like the rest of the people that initially discovered the exploit.
2 Silver for a snowflake
30 Silver for one ecto2 ore -> 1 ingot
2 ingots (4ore) -> 1 Filigree
2 ingots (4ore) -> 1 Setting
2 ingots (4ore) -> 1 Hook
6.6s for 12 oretotal mats needed to start:
12 ore, 1 ecto, 1 snowflake
38.6 silverNOW, make one snowflake earing. Grats, you have exo, or rare snowflake earring.
Salvage with Mystic salvage kit or Master (50% upgrade, 25% rare material drop)
Get anywhere from (0-3 ectos per salvage)
50% of the time u retain the snowflake, and you remove 1 filigree, 1 ecto, and 1 snowflake.
58% of the time you get at least 1 ecto [1-(.75*.75*.75)]
with 6.25% of the time getting 3 ectos [.25*.25*.25]For every salvage attempt to gain 0-3 ectos (with a rare) it cost
.6 silver per attempt with master salvage
8 ore (4.4 silver @55c per ore) per attempt 50% of the time, 12 ore, 1 ecto, 1 snowflake (38.6 silver) the other 50% of the time.
(avg value of each attempt when you do it an infinite amount of time: (38.6+4.4)/221.5 silver cost each salvage with 58% of the time getting you at least one ecto (30 silver)
You can really tell who knows what they are talking about, and who is just making up numbers. If you go back and read my post I outline the numbers very clearly for you. If you bothered to make any and not just speculate randomly you would notice that snowflakes were trading from 25-30 silver making the ecto the cheaper part of the loss.
However you way underestimated the retention rate, which is 80% if you use the master salvage kit. In reality the avg salvage ran close to 16 silver.
Let me blow your mind real quick you can still make rares for under 20 silver, just buy T5 mats which are dirt cheap at the moment, and craft just about anything in the game.
Then I guess Anet should ban everyone who is crafting rares because according to your math there is a 33% return on any rares you craft and salvage right now, making more money from salvaging things you craft is an exploit after all.
Ill just leave this here for you to educate yourself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
Your numbers are wrong, as well as your basic logic about crafting. If I somehow missed the point you were making, it was a very poorly made point.
Fixed retention rate, I know how all crafting works (and my logic is fine, as I have proven)
You are valuing snowflakes at 2 silver that’s absurd. They are worth two silver because you can’t do anything useful with them anymore. If they were indeed useful for crafting as before their value would be back around 25-30 silver which is where it has been all Wintersday, so that’s the next error you made.
Even beyond that mistake your logic is all wrong. If you are claiming this is an exploit, but me making rare light armor for the exact same price is not an exploit I have no idea how you can have that position.
I can make rare armor for 16.5 silver right now and salvage it for ectos worth 30 silver by using conventional T5 materials. If I am able to do that, how can you possibly say the return rate on snowflake jewelry is way to good when it’s the same?
The truth is nobody ‘missed out’ on free ectos, the T5 materials are not reflecting the ecto price market at all. So go make whatever rares you want right now and make a fortune salvaging ecto’s. I just find it silly that one way has to be removed because it’s to lucrative, while there are 9 other ways to get the exact same ‘exploit’ return.
I think the problem is you do not understand statistics. Please understand the math I have down, and you will understand why it is an exploit.
2 Silver for a snowflake
30 Silver for one ecto2 ore -> 1 ingot
2 ingots (4ore) -> 1 Filigree
2 ingots (4ore) -> 1 Setting
2 ingots (4ore) -> 1 Hook
6.6s for 12 oretotal mats needed to start:
12 ore, 1 ecto, 1 snowflake
38.6 silverNOW, make one snowflake earing. Grats, you have exo, or rare snowflake earring.
Salvage with Mystic salvage kit or Master (50% upgrade, 25% rare material drop)
Get anywhere from (0-3 ectos per salvage)
50% of the time u retain the snowflake, and you remove 1 filigree, 1 ecto, and 1 snowflake.
58% of the time you get at least 1 ecto [1-(.75*.75*.75)]
with 6.25% of the time getting 3 ectos [.25*.25*.25]For every salvage attempt to gain 0-3 ectos (with a rare) it cost
.6 silver per attempt with master salvage
8 ore (4.4 silver @55c per ore) per attempt 50% of the time, 12 ore, 1 ecto, 1 snowflake (38.6 silver) the other 50% of the time.
(avg value of each attempt when you do it an infinite amount of time: (38.6+4.4)/221.5 silver cost each salvage with 58% of the time getting you at least one ecto (30 silver)
You can really tell who knows what they are talking about, and who is just making up numbers. If you go back and read my post I outline the numbers very clearly for you. If you bothered to make any and not just speculate randomly you would notice that snowflakes were trading from 25-30 silver making the ecto the cheaper part of the loss.
However you way underestimated the retention rate, which is 80% if you use the master salvage kit. In reality the avg salvage ran close to 16 silver.
Let me blow your mind real quick you can still make rares for under 20 silver, just buy T5 mats which are dirt cheap at the moment, and craft just about anything in the game.
Then I guess Anet should ban everyone who is crafting rares because according to your math there is a 33% return on any rares you craft and salvage right now, making more money from salvaging things you craft is an exploit after all.
Ill just leave this here for you to educate yourself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
Your numbers are wrong, as well as your basic logic about crafting. If I somehow missed the point you were making, it was a very poorly made point.
Fixed retention rate, I know how all crafting works (and my logic is fine, as I have proven)
2 Silver for a snowflake
30 Silver for one ecto2 ore -> 1 ingot
2 ingots (4ore) -> 1 Filigree
2 ingots (4ore) -> 1 Setting
2 ingots (4ore) -> 1 Hook
6.6s for 12 oretotal mats needed to start:
12 ore, 1 ecto, 1 snowflake
38.6 silverNOW, make one snowflake earing. Grats, you have exo, or rare snowflake earring.
Salvage with Mystic salvage kit or Master (50% upgrade, 25% rare material drop)
Get anywhere from (0-3 ectos per salvage)
50% of the time u retain the snowflake, and you remove 1 filigree, 1 ecto, and 1 snowflake.
58% of the time you get at least 1 ecto [1-(.75*.75*.75)]
with 6.25% of the time getting 3 ectos [.25*.25*.25]For every salvage attempt to gain 0-3 ectos (with a rare) it cost
.6 silver per attempt with master salvage
8 ore (4.4 silver @55c per ore) per attempt 50% of the time, 12 ore, 1 ecto, 1 snowflake (38.6 silver) the other 50% of the time.
(avg value of each attempt when you do it an infinite amount of time: (38.6+4.4)/221.5 silver cost each salvage with 58% of the time getting you at least one ecto (30 silver)
You can really tell who knows what they are talking about, and who is just making up numbers. If you go back and read my post I outline the numbers very clearly for you. If you bothered to make any and not just speculate randomly you would notice that snowflakes were trading from 25-30 silver making the ecto the cheaper part of the loss.
However you way underestimated the retention rate, which is 80% if you use the master salvage kit. In reality the avg salvage ran close to 16 silver.
Let me blow your mind real quick you can still make rares for under 20 silver, just buy T5 mats which are dirt cheap at the moment, and craft just about anything in the game.
Then I guess Anet should ban everyone who is crafting rares because according to your math there is a 33% return on any rares you craft and salvage right now, making more money from salvaging things you craft is an exploit after all.
Ill just leave this here for you to educate yourself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
Fixed master retention rate (sry off the top of my head thought it was 50%)
2 Silver for a snowflake (http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/38134)
30 Silver for one ecto
2 ore -> 1 ingot
2 ingots (4ore) -> 1 Filigree
2 ingots (4ore) -> 1 Setting
2 ingots (4ore) -> 1 Hook
6.6s for 12 ore
total mats needed to start:
12 ore, 1 ecto, 1 snowflake
38.6 silver
NOW, make one snowflake earing. Grats, you have exo, or rare snowflake earring.
Salvage with Mystic salvage kit or Master (80% upgrade, 25% rare material drop)
Get anywhere from (0-3 ectos per salvage)
80% of the time u retain the snowflake, and you remove 1 filigree, 1 ecto, and 1 snowflake.
58% of the time you get at least 1 ecto [1-(.75*.75*.75)]
with 6.25% of the time getting 3 ectos [.25*.25*.25]
For every salvage attempt to gain 0-3 ectos (with a rare) it cost
.6 silver per attempt with master salvage
8 ore (4.4 silver @55c per ore) per attempt 80% of the time, 12 ore, 1 ecto, 1 snowflake (38.6 silver) the other 20% of the time.
(avg value of each attempt when you do it an infinite amount of time: (38.6*.2+4.4*.8)
8.42 silver cost each salvage with 58% of the time getting you at least one ecto (30 silver)
(.42*-8.42)=(-3.5417.4)
Average profit statistically calculated (not including getting more than one ecto per salvage, still just one ecto or zero) 13.86 silver
That means (at least) +13.86 silver every time you salvage the earring. ALL materials and salvages included and accounted for.
Now the exotic
1 snowflake @ 2silver (http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/38135)
12 ore (http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/19701) @ 3 silver per = 36 silver
30 Silver for one ecto
.6 silver per attempt with master salvage
8 ore (24 silver @3s per ore) per attempt 80% of the time, 12 ore, 1 ecto, 1 snowflake (68.6 silver) the other 20% of the time.
(19+13.72)= 32.72 silver per salvage
100% chance for 30 silver (ecto)
68% chance for at least 2 ecto (60 silver)
SO 32.72 – 30silver, 2.72 silver
2.72 silver per salvage (guaranteed)
32% (at most) of the time u pay 2.72 silver per salvage
68% (at least) of the time u make 13.7 silver per salvage
so a weighted avg (mean) per salvage, (.68*13.7+.32*-2.72)= 9.316-0.87= 8.4 silver per salvage
(edited by Aura.1645)
Anet better ban these people for doing this…
Guy in my party got perm merch, kitten is possible
<3 The market noobs that cry when their investment is now useless.
Thank you Anet, I love the stuff your doing, all the time. Now for those botters =P and script kiddies ^.^
This is a video of him saying to farm Ori nodes…really man? Not everyone has downs…
btw, There is no such thing as mf hack, tele hacks yes, speed hack doubtful (checked sources but to no avail), they also use the tele hack to go underground and glitch places, but other than that…Bot, Teleport…Thats it. Dont spread crap like this please
item dupe = fix to the economy (jk lol)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population
115th – finland Could have something to do with it ^.^
First, I lurk, and when severely bothered, I post. I don’t complain.
tldr: this isn’t complaining.
Bots -> Inflate economy
Higher lvl players -> Negligible inflation relative to the number of bots everyone sees, per area, per server.
Gems -> correctly priced if bots didn’t exist. (But BLC rates leave something to be desired, but would be fixed with items gained from Mad King Chests, if those items were desired and not readily available in the economy already.)
On a private test server, EVERYTHING would seem to work well. (assumption I know, but try it for yourself with nothing to lose…have a test server run under certain conditions) No bots…
Botters are causing damage…If it isn’t ALL the damage it is some…
Solution examples:
Report(s) for botting -> Unable to trade until account meets a condition.
Overview of players holding > 1000 gold (or w/e amount)
Ingame voluntary team/guild who can expedite the botting reports quicker.
The anti-bot team/guild could be made of people who have successfully (and correctly) made many accurate bot reports already.
The infamous captcha timeout thing on random time intervals. (Though even I am sure there would be a workaround)
Just have one guy teleporting to the known/obvious botting locations, with a banhammer…and a dhuum animation ^.^
I know you are banning some of the botters…But the players are hurting as well as your income. We are willing to help you…Help Me, Help You.
only way it passes them, is if people “invest” in a fake market…which is what they are trying to accomplish lol
also proof of availability, and the end to the investor kitten, http://www.gw2db.com/trading-post/49758-black-lion-chest-locked#trading-post:availability.
Mystic coins will drop on the 22nd. (obviously)
Quote: Chest prices started after the update @61c JUST SAYIN….now they are down to 40~…use your head…thx
No you are both in on this, or are too dumb to realize…This happens after every update…stop trying to inflate the price with dribble…
Chest prices started after the update @61c JUST SAYIN….now they are down to 40~…use your head…thx
I heard word of an exploit but I’m still looking into verifying it. Anet get ur banhammers ready.
you are trying to create a false demand… Please stop, no one is falling for it lmao
please stop lying to people…Keys are always the same price….Chests are abundant…Everyone sell your chests to make sure you get just as much profit as he does.
Sell all your chests if you have them, and then people will realize keys are still needed and chests will drop back to 2-3c each again.
Keys are still needed, ^this guy is trying to scam the general idiots..
“Big markets” does not include finland…lol
There is no point, at all, in trying to craft anything unusual for profit for the TP.
Posted by: Aura.1645
The tax for placing the Item is required…I did not read any of the wall of text above me, but…If there no tax upon placing and item, and it was removed when u canceled the sale, you think everyone would be pulling their item out and putting it back in below the guy who undercut them?…Silly idea…
Guys…grenth… kitten /p>