Guild Wars 2

Evan Lesh.3295:

I have good news and bad news.

This example is an extreme case so it is not screwing over everybody. There were multiple people that failed to ready up, which meant multiple rounds of substitutes were needed.

Bad news. Teams are not rebalanced after finding substitutes and it has been that way for years. There are complicated computer-science reasons why, but it is solvable and I will attempt to fix it. In this case since it happened multiple times, it compounded the inaccuracies.

Nice evan. Thanks. You are awesome.

I actually wondered this because the queue was an insta pop for me and only i had to ready up. Secondly my friends had a,ready told me that the insta pops were often thekr worst matches

Tiefsee.3647:

Evan Lesh.3295:

10 players are collected before making teams.
You are looking at ratings after the match which are going to be further apart than the ratings that were used to make the match.

The two duo queues on one team is annoying, and something could be done to improve that.

And as always (though slightly out of date) the matchmaking process has been documented here:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm

Oh and when it starts with 10 players and makes teams later… could you divide professions equally?

(There where many matches when we (enemy and my team) wanted to exchange eg one duo thief for eg one duo warrior – because the other team had none)

Profession imbalance is secondary. If you start allocating teams based on professions then you get more blow out matches as the system will be matching high rated players togther vs low rated players together just because of classes they selected. The matchmaking needs to match people to have fair MMR skill levels for each team. Anything else is counter productive.

Evan Lesh.3295:

10 players are collected before making teams.
You are looking at ratings after the match which are going to be further apart than the ratings that were used to make the match.

The two duo queues on one team is annoying, and something could be done to improve that.

And as always (though slightly out of date) the matchmaking process has been documented here:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm

I thought people might say that to try and invalidate what I was saying…..which is why I also took a screenshot of the ratings before the game was over. The leaderboard for friends takes time to update. Again I include the evidence below as a new screenshot. This shows the ratings before the game was over, which shows the 1942 rating average vs the 1785 average rating. AND the 1942 rating team had 2 duo queue and the 1785 team had none.

If the system does collect 10 players then it is failing to divide teams fairly. You have a bug in your algorithm or something. This happens all the time btw. All the time those of us rated around 1800 in solo queue end up vs double duo queue of people at rating 2k+. Why are these duo queues not split up always to give fair matches?

Something is badly wrong. This happens all the time at plat 2 and above. It just puts all the legendary plays in 1 team for example. And plays them vs a platinum team. These issues aren’t made up. Which is why i presented the evidence. The algorithm does not work to make fair matches. Testing has shown that, as I presented here as evidence.

This game is moving in the right direction and you all do a great job. But I think it is obvious that something went wrong here. And this happens ALL the time.

Whether anyone believes me or not is irrelevant as I have proven it can and does happen in this thread.

They never learn. They used to use this broken system and they fixed it 3 years ago. Now it is back.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Matchmaking-Changes-MMR-Leaderboard-Reset/first

maddoctor.2738:

Barry.3147:

You don’t understand. If i asked you, as a human, to split those 10 players into two rosters based on their MMR then you would not do it like this.

I’m not so sure about this. If I recall from previous seasons (don’t know if they changed it for S5) the matchmaker tries to find 4 players of your own skill level to create a team of 5. Then it tries to find another team with a similar average rating to fight your team. The matchmaker, to my knowledge at least, doesn’t work on 10 players but on 5 players, so even a human being would cause match ups like the one in the OP to happen.

Of course a human could easily see the difference between the teams and make the adjustments AFTER matchmaking, but before the match started. Is that even possible to do by an algorithm?

Well then this is a flaw in the matchmaker. Again which is the point of the thread. If what you say is true then the ranked system should be removed. The system would be much much better to pool 10 players and then create rosters that are fair.

It is possible to do via algorithm. It isn’t even hard to do. You have the system put players into buckets. When a bucket is full of 10 players THEN the system creates rosters based on average MMR on each team. This is the only logical way to actually implement a matchmaking system. You wait for 10 players to create rosters, not 5.

It is so simple that the fact anet do not do it means they have no idea what they are doing.

Spicy.2481:

Protip, don’t play during nights when there are less players playing. That’s how the duoq guys even sit at so high mmr, they are afraid to play when all the esl players are on and can abuse matchmaking at night by getting easier opponents. System works fine there just isn’t enough players queueing during certain times and then this happens.

Are people trolling me? lol. Clearly there was enough players. There was the 10 players available for a fun and close game. But it didnt happen because the matchmaker did not correctly divide the 10 players into two teams. It is nothing to do with lack of population in this case.

mysterion.1276:

It’s called variance, theres also a chance that the legendary duo is in your team so matchmaking is fine.

You don’t understand. If i asked you, as a human, to split those 10 players into two rosters based on their MMR then you would not do it like this. So the system is broken. That is not variance. That is just a failure of the system. There was a way this game could have been fair (one of each of the legend duos on each team) but the system did NOT do this. I want to know why. And if anet cannot fix it then they need to remove ranked from the game because it will just make people quit.

Olterin Fire.5960:

This looks like a sorting problem. Looking at that particular team matchup I would have to guess that the system first assembled the teams with the aim of keeping the team average rating low-variance (this is a good thing) – and then matched two teams based on their average ratings. In the rating range in question, there may not be many teams close enough in their average ratings so that the likelihood of skewed matches increases a lot. But this ought to go both ways (not quite in equal measure though because of the gaussian distribution of player ratings) – so if you find yourself getting matched against the same higher-rated people a lot, maybe give this whole queue-dodge thing a try?

Yes, this will be the issue. What should happen is the game finds 10 players who are close in rating and then divides them into teams. The current system is worthless as this shows. They should remove ranked until this is fixed because it will just make people quit.

It might be because the rosters are defined and then an enemy roster is located. This would explain the issues. There is something wrong anyway, badly wrong.

Abelisk.4527:

You only lost 7 rating

So why does the system not collect the 10 players then make fair matches?

(They fixed this issue 3 years ago when it was a problem and they have now reverted back to their old awful matchmaking algorithm. They need to do this again: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Matchmaking-Changes-MMR-Leaderboard-Reset/first )

Take a look at this screen shot.

1, They have 2 duo queues. We have none.

2, Then look at the ratings. I added everyone to friends to check the scores.

Team 1
2 duo queues
2070
2043
1988
1886
1725
Average = 1942

Team 2
0 duo queues. ALL SOLO
1810
1803
1778
1771
1764
Average rating = 1785

So they get 2 duo queues. We get none. They get average rating of 1942. We get 1785.

How is this possible. Why were the 2 duo queue of high rated people on the same roster?

This is evidence that gw2 matchmaking system is broken. Why would the system put those 2 duo queues of top 30 people on the same team to farm a bunch of solo queue platinum people?

This is not a salty post. I am just showing with proof that the system does not work at all. It is a post of science. I am just showing the numbers.