Guild Wars 2

Can’t you just make that, after a week of match-up, the winner goes in the higher tier, the looser drop in the lower tier, and the 2nd keep his 2nd place ? Is it that hard ? Does it need statistician from Harvard ?

I’m really disappointed.

I’ll preface this comment with the statement that I am on Henge, and have been since beta, so I’ve been around for the graceless fall from #1 to Tier 8.

I would MUCH rather fight the same people week in and week out than be forced to play against servers that will vastly outperform us. Over the few months Henge played against Gate of Madness, we made friends from other servers, we had parties in each others’ LA, and then we killed each other on the battlefield mercilessly. The only way that community formed was because we were “stuck” in the same tier, fighting competitive matches.

Without singling out any server specifically, there have been a few that have not been joyrides. Select servers had Henge of Denravi under 50 PPT (this means a tower or two and some supply camps) for days on end. At least one of these servers is still in Tier 6. Now I’m all for fighting against other people, I much enjoy growing my reputation among other players. What I do not enjoy is a server being able to push every single member of my server back into a corner to defend one structure, while they take two different structures with groups of people that equal ours in size. This is not fun, and it makes people leave WvW for the matchup, because fighting a fight that far gone is nothing short of futile.

This new rating is great. However, the implementation should integrate EU servers fighting alongside or against fellow NA servers. Would be good if they can implement cross border travels to assist allies from different side of the world. Ideally NA server SOR would be paired as allies with Vabbi, Vizunah paired with Eredon Terrace as allies. This would make for a real competitive matches. Top from each side paired with lowest so there can be some kind of balancing. It would also rid the idea of stacking guilds onto a few servers because sooner or later, they’ll very likely lose because those 2 paired together (top rank with lowest rank) will need to cover 6 borderlands and 2 eternal battlegrounds. Some additional maps or map changes would also help… But I’m already liking the directions of these new implementations. Was already too tired for facing some opponents.

Why create some complex system to "add spice" to WvW matchups? The player base has been suggesting a system for months now that I can’t seem to find a flaw in (call me bias) especially if this is the alternative.

Winner goes up (Except top tier, winner stays)
3rd Place goes down (Except bottom tier, 3rd place stays)
2nd Place stays.

Then add in RNG for which server gets which color.

Volatility is not what you need in matchups, variety is.

I am sure the blowout matches are going to be super fun. The whole JQ vs KN quote is enough to show that ANET has absolutely no idea what is going on. No one enjoys a match-up where one or more of the teams are being steam rolled.

They need to pair a NA server with a EU server. Weak and strong together, mid and mid together. This will help with coverage since the strong server will help the weak one and the mids will have strong primetimes during their play time. Eventually if they have asian servers they can add those to the mix.

I was hoping for a system that took player activity into account. This sounds like it’s just going to be one server dominating the other two. I don’t think players simply want new match ups, but fair match ups. Anyway, I will reserve my judgement until the score system has been in effect for a few weeks. But as it looks on paper, I’m not convinced.

what are u doing…….. the tiers are too far apart to random match. it wont be ‘who will win’ u kitten kitten. it will be ticking 600 points total domination. total turn away both the competitive and casual wvwers.

Dirt cheap!? Are you kidding me?! 1 badge is worth 1 silver in Siege. As demonstrated by, 6 badges = 1 arrowcart and 6 silver = 1 arrowcart.

Do you honestly believe that anyone thinks you are worth that much? Could you think even more highly of yourself? I’d rather take the repaircost, its cheaper.
Some people will use it on Thieves but merely for the sake of trolling them, perhaps after having been trolled one to many times by a Thief themselves.

Also, YOU ARENT USELESS. As someone pointed out, you have plenty of abilities that do not use or require stealth. And still deal a lot of damage, or offer plenty of mitigation.
I’ve played HGH Engineer. And after 2 cycles of cooldowns, when i finally got my 25 stacks of Might so i can actually deal damage. Do you think it honestly doesnt hurt me when some Thief comes along and just takes this stack for himself? You’ll be back in Stealth long before i got my Might up again. And stripping Boons is far more common, far more plentifull, and costs just a small cooldown or a few bits of initiative.

No, this is not a Thief counter. No one in their right mind will use it just for you. But if you are the unfortunate collatoral damage from a zerg going into a supply camp? Well, suck it up. Other professions have to deal with equal, or worst, counters on a far more regular basis.

And lets also not ignore the fact that these traps can be placed while in stealth. If only there was a profession that could chain long durations of Stealth together. He would be able to run into an enemy zerg, say from a tower or keep, and place a Supply Trap in the middle of this zerg unnoticed. Wasting the zerg upwards to 40 supply. Ow snap!

Thieves are the reason why these new traps are going to cost attackers even more Supply when they attack a tower or keep. Either they waste supply constantly building Stealth traps and hoping the Thief steps on them. Or a Thief will stealth out of the tower/keep and place a trap right under their feet unnoticed.

If anything these Traps are a big buff for Thieves because no one gets to use them to such an effective extend as they do. To off-set for this, everyone now and then you accidentally step on a trap. If its with a zerg, suck it up.
If you’re alone, good for you, that trap was meant to catch far bigger fish then just you. And they wasted 10 supply and a whole bunch of badges on it.

and all it takes is a simple mechanic to show thiefs need to L2P well done anet

Softspoken.2410:

Raf.1078:

TooBz.3065:

Arkanfel.8403:

Few things are quite so savory to me as thief tears.

There’s finally a hard counter to stealth and now they are going to lose their kitten. Oh, your core gameplay mechanic has a counter now? How bad that must feel. I main guardian—my core gameplay mechanic is boons and I have a low health pool. You know what counters my core gameplay? Boon stripping and conditions.

So welcome to the club of the rest of us. We meet in the gym after AA on Wednesdays. Bring donuts and paper plates.

It’s not really a “counter” so much as it is a removal of the “core gameplay mechanic” for 30 seconds.

It’s like creating a trap that strips all boons from guardians prevents the application of boons for 30 seconds, or a trap that prevents elementalists from swapping attunements, or one that prevents the use of utility skills.

Everyone else is already dealing with that. Necros strip all our boons and turn them into conditions. Its called “corrupt boon”. To make that equal to this lil trap….the trap would have to cripple, chill & weaken you too.

Thieves…..lol…..

Except Necros only get to use that once, at which point you can try and counterplay the conditions and reapply your boons. There is no way to remove revealed.

Personally I’m not concerned with people specifically countering a stealth thief with this. People have already pointed out the channel time, the cost, etc. What does worry me is that a thief caught in this as collateral damage can be hobbled severely for 30 seconds.

I don’t think thieves should be immune, but I don’t think adding 30 seconds of revealed is perfect. If they could add something that kept the player visible, but still let them proc traits / skills related to stealth, I’d be a lot less concerned.

Temporary retreat is also an option…its only 30 sec. Just cause we can see them doesn’t mean they can’t bowshot away or even hang around and fight. And, if they are glass cannon, maybe its time for a bit of Knights, just in case.

TooBz.3065:

Arkanfel.8403:

Few things are quite so savory to me as thief tears.

There’s finally a hard counter to stealth and now they are going to lose their kitten. Oh, your core gameplay mechanic has a counter now? How bad that must feel. I main guardian—my core gameplay mechanic is boons and I have a low health pool. You know what counters my core gameplay? Boon stripping and conditions.

So welcome to the club of the rest of us. We meet in the gym after AA on Wednesdays. Bring donuts and paper plates.

It’s not really a “counter” so much as it is a removal of the “core gameplay mechanic” for 30 seconds.

It’s like creating a trap that strips all boons from guardians prevents the application of boons for 30 seconds, or a trap that prevents elementalists from swapping attunements, or one that prevents the use of utility skills.

First off, its not a core mechanic. Steal is your core mechanic along with the dual-wield skill. NOT stealth, you just use more stealth then other professions. And using something most of all professions doesnt make it a core mechanic.

Boons isnt the Guardians core mechanic either, d/d Ele has a ton of boons and uptime aswell. Engineer can stack a wide variaty of different boons aswell, and can even build for a consistent 25stacks of Might.

But here’s the thing you, and other Thieves, are crying about. “ow hurrdurr, make traps counter other professions core mechanics!!” Why? There are already plenty of NON-traps that do.
Lets run with the idea that boons is to guardians what stealth is to you. YOU are a Thief, YOU already counter this yourself! Stealing 2 boons at a time with s/d. Necro’s counter it even harder, they can corrupt all boons instantly turning them into conditions. And there are plenty of other abilities and traits that counter Boon-stacking.
Mesmers have illusions, guess what, they can be killed. Before they do anything, and they can also be avoided. Their mechanic as a counter aswell, see?

And the same applies to other comperable mechanics. Everything ingame already has a counter, Stealth was litterally the last thing in this game that did not have a counter to it. And its rediculous it took this long.
Now it does, and its a very expensive one (15 badges, 500 karma and 10 supply, 4sec to Arm). Which is imo still a rediculously poor counter based on its sheer cost and unreliability. Its above all a counter to Veil bombing.

And here’s the funny thing. Traps can be placed while in stealth. So which profession gets to be the one that can place traps unseen in the middle of an enemy zerg? Yah. Traps sure are a huge nerf to Thieves, you just got yet another tool for your WvW arsenal, and you can use it better then anyone.

TooBz.3065:

Arkanfel.8403:

Few things are quite so savory to me as thief tears.

There’s finally a hard counter to stealth and now they are going to lose their kitten. Oh, your core gameplay mechanic has a counter now? How bad that must feel. I main guardian—my core gameplay mechanic is boons and I have a low health pool. You know what counters my core gameplay? Boon stripping and conditions.

So welcome to the club of the rest of us. We meet in the gym after AA on Wednesdays. Bring donuts and paper plates.

It’s not really a “counter” so much as it is a removal of the “core gameplay mechanic” for 30 seconds.

It’s like creating a trap that strips all boons from guardians prevents the application of boons for 30 seconds, or a trap that prevents elementalists from swapping attunements, or one that prevents the use of utility skills.

Everyone else is already dealing with that. Necros strip all our boons and turn them into conditions. Its called “corrupt boon”. To make that equal to this lil trap….the trap would have to cripple, chill & weaken you too.

Thieves…..lol…..

Few things are quite so savory to me as thief tears.

There’s finally a hard counter to stealth and now they are going to lose their kitten. Oh, your core gameplay mechanic has a counter now? How bad that must feel. I main guardian—my core gameplay mechanic is boons and I have a low health pool. You know what counters my core gameplay? Boon stripping and conditions.

So welcome to the club of the rest of us. We meet in the gym after AA on Wednesdays. Bring donuts and paper plates.

Atherakhia.4086:

90% of that avoidance comes in the form of stealth.

Disabling Shot, Flanking Strike, Death Blossom, Withdraw, Roll for Initiative, Hidden Pistol (Charr only) are all skills that Evade without having stealth involved.

Bountiful Theft and Vigorous Recovery are traits that grant you Vigor without having to go into Stealth.

There are a few Regen sources, but that’s not really ‘avoidance’.

Smoke Screen still blocks Projectiles even if you can’t combo Stealth through it.

Black Powder, Infiltrator’s Arrow, Shadow Shot, etcetera, they do blinds too.

Thieves have more than enough ability to stay alive without stealth in 30 seconds. You’re just going to have to adjust to a slightly different metagame.

So under the current system WXP is awarded for multiple actions that everyone can participate on relative equal footing, such as killing yaks, defense, and captures. However one aspect where this is untrue would be in the case of support vs. damage roles.

For example as a Guardian I am defending a tower where we work to bottle up people at a choke point via the multitude of bubbles, wards, and immobilizes that we have available to us. Our AoE DPS/CC support us typically at range (some melee) and our Single Target DPS typically support us via siege (arrow carts/ballista). This setup is overall very effective and we are often able to hold a tower vs. significantly greater numbers.

The problem is that if you compare the WXP gains of the Guardians who create the “kill box” that makes this strategy efficient vs. those running the siege, the difference in “kill credit” and therefore WXP gains is staggering… typically around 5 times more.

This is a coordinated effort by our team, but yet playing a supporting role… probably the most important role in the strategy, yields significantly less rewards seems off. There are other examples of this for every class I am sure, but the common theme is that those that play a supporting role are not equally rewarded for their time and effort.

Considering that WvW is very team oriented, it seems to me that the implementation where individually “tagging” in order to get “kill credit” in order to gain WXP for said kill significantly hinders WXP progression for those that choose to play supportive roles, rather than pure damage roles. Wouldn’t it make more sense to reward everyone in a group for the kills performed by the group, rather than kill credit be associated with the individual? This would further promote grouping and I can’t see any glaring problems (maybe AFK’ers, but I suspect this would be a limited problem).

I would love to hear others thoughts on this, and thank you for reading.

Devon, thanks for detailing your reasoning, but I don’t understand why you think a WXP allocation reset is required for this. There are two separate points:

1) Even if the range increase was significantly lower, it would still be very valuable for only 5 points, and anyone regularly using arrowcarts would be foolish not to go for it.
2) When confusion was nerfed, mesmers didn’t get a full replacement of their confusion gear if they wanted to switch to a power shatter build. There is a long history of balance changes making some of your gear/skills obsolete in MMORPGs, and this would be very minor change compared to those that have come in the past.

Regarding arrow cart damage: as a commander, I’ve successfully kept an enemy’s Bay for 6+ hours, wiping the enemy force 15+ times despite being outmanned 2:1 to 3:1 with every door and wall breached. This was thanks to a massive number of arrow carts in inner/lordroom while keeping an eye out for mesmers/portals so they didn’t manage to surprise us.

But here’s the thing: that happened BEFORE the arrow cart damage improvement. Arrow carts were already capable of incredible things before they got +80% damage. While I understand this depends on the specific tower/keep, you’d be surprised at what you could do in most places with proper placement. A good defensive commander can do miracles.

The problem for defense was never damage. The problem always was not having the time to place enough arrowcarts before the enemy zerg had already breached the gate. If you really want to make arrow carts more valuable, revert their damage but reduce their cost to 20 supply to make them cheaper/faster to build, while also increasing the siege despawn timer to 1h30.

As always, I think everyone really appreciates your excellent communication Devon, but I suspect a few people are starting to believe you’re not playing the same game they’re playing. So I think it would be really valuable if we could have an equivalent of the PvP State of the Game with you for WvW, because whatever design decisions you make, that’s a better way to introduce and debate them than a forum thread which derails into thousands of pages of flaming and circular arguments.

RiverRat.1045:

no GOM is complaining about being on NSP BL DR shows up to help NSP defend by attacking GOM in the back then when GOM is dead DR takes off until GOM is seen again in NSP land

No, we’re not complaining about that either. I totally have done and would do the same.

Haven’t you ever been outmanned on an enemy borderland? You see 2 guys that are too big to fight fightin each other. In a 3 way you can just steal kills and draw out the fight. They want the NSP defenders busy defending against GoM and they want GoM attackers busy attacking NSP. And they want badges.

This makes sense ‘cause DR never is not at war with NSP and GoM and we’re always at war with both of them. To win the war though doesn’t mean you fight NSP and GoM every battle, you pick the fights that advance their cause. DR shouldn’t want the keep that GoM is attacking because if they take it they will now be the ones getting doubled teamed.

I don’t mean to alarm you but DR and NSP both wish us harm! They have ill intent towards us! In fact, I suspect they have unflattering things to say about our mothers! Please keep that in mind.

I agree about making Yak escorts be a daily. There’s your “XP” for doing escort missions — it’ll come from the daily reward.

Really it should be like “gather resources”. It’s just one of the daily options that’s ALWAYS there.

Change that daily to x yak escorts. pve’s help their server’s wvw effort and get daily without screwing over their server, win-win.

Totally agree this needs a bit of a rethink. As others have said this is a pure grind that many are not up for. The few that are, do it for hours then get called to defend a keep or SM and by the time they get back all that siege they were protecting. has gone! It’s horrid.

If the main goal is to solve the technical problem then I agree – shorter time for offensive siege, that is normally abandoned after use and longer for defensive.

Could you not have different timers for ACs and cats and rams (and even trebs) placed outside forts to those inside? 15 mins outside, 1 hour inside (agree even longer for superior). You could also clear all defensive siege from inside a fort automatically when it is captured (or after 5 mins to allow for immediate recapture).

Straegen.2938:

The system should remove the siege with the highest unused timer as players drop new siege not automatically on a timer.

This, but prioritize flame rams.

Flame rams will despawn after 15 minutes of no use but if someone tries to drop a siege and the cap limit has been hit, the first flame ram with > 2 minutes of idle time will despawn to make room.

I wouldn’t do this with other siege — let them despawn on their timer so as to not surprise anyone that was trying to keep them refreshed — but any flame ram not being actively used is probably just taking up space.

Is there ANY possible way of creating the despawn timer to be relevant to the amount of people in the map? . . So if the map is full then everything is on a short timer but if there is only a couple of people then everything is on a long timer. – At least they have a chance of getting around the map to refresh.
I also agree that there should be different timers for different siege (if possible) with the offensive siege on a shorter timer than the defensive siege.

DevonCarver.5370:

Indeed, it was a bug that the timer didn’t work all the time and we’ve addressed that. We are going to evaluate these times now that the timer does in fact work and it is very possible that we will make some changes to them. That being said, the main reason for the timer is the fact that we have to have the siege cap because of technical reasons and this helps to force siege to recycle if it isn’t being used.

That makes a ton of sense with regards to rams… let’s face it, if you’re not using a ram there’s little to no sense for that ram to be there in the first place. However, defensive siege is a different story. People ready defenses with the intent on them being there when needed, not necessarily for immediate use. A couple, three hour timer would be ideal, but even extending it to an hour would be a nice quality of life improvement.

Trebs despawning make me sad. So much supply, relatively high cost… sigh…

Interesting thought… what if superior siege had a longer timer than regular? Regular despawn 1 hr, superior 2 hrs… something like that?

I’m still not amused about the 30 second delay, btw. It is killing the first responder type of defense role which I enjoyed a lot. Now it’s sit in a tower, doing nothing but refreshing siege every 30 minutes… sigh…

I personally see getting focused as a compliment. In general the mindset of the players in this type of pvp (whether they’re organized or just pugs) is to go after the biggest threat. And at the moment, that’s us.

I know whenever I’m solo roaming I usually go to the BL of the second place team, just because they’re the biggest threat to our lead. So everyone relax and just enjoy the matchup.

DR joined this tier the same week we did, so there’s not really a new guy to pick on. It’s just more a matter of opportunity. We won last week, we’re in the lead this week, and we’re going to continue to be the top threat for either server and continuously double-teamed until one of them manages to snag the lead. If we’re getting slammed by one server, the other is going to try to nab free points from us.

It’s that simple.

Libertys, have a Snickers. You get whiny when you’re hungry. Quit trying to start anything and just let this drop.

I’ve seen several wall/cliff bugs in WvW since last patch(es).

1. Trying to use an arrow cart placed at edge of wall gives “can’t drop bundles in mid air”. you can’t use any siege skills or leave siege. Waypoint is only way to break siege stun.
2. When on the edge of a wall and I get green target on ground for Necro marks, the skill doesn’t work.
3. Jumping down from cliff will rubber band you back to cliff, sometimes 3-4 times
4. Jumping down also will cause no damage upon landing, but is delayed a couple of seconds.

This “new” culling is still as bad as it was in december. I can’t see my commander. I can’t the the golems that i shpuld protect. And i see fewer enemys than before. i prefer the “old” version. It’s also bad but not as bad as the “new” version.