Showing Posts For Boloth.6879:
I love the part where every point you’ve made is infringed by every esport I’ve seen played on the tournament level.
Let’s try this another way:
The six items I listed are the leading causes of dominate strategies in video games. For those of you who don’t know dominate strategies are bad design.
And even if GW2 was the most balanced PVP game in the history of ever it’s hard for players and spectators to take it seriously as a competitive game when it allows players to be stunned then one-shotted by an invisible warping opponent, turned into a moa bird then killed by an army of NPCs, be forced to fight against an immovable invincible bunker that reflects damage for free, or require you have your own personal posse of FotM gankers in order to fully experience the game. One reason why PvE is so popular is because PvEers generally don’t have to deal with that kind of stuff.
Can you include these kinds of things in your game? Sure, many designers do, but it would be better if they didn’t because they don’t add anything to competitive play and balancing around them is really, really, really, really hard.
I’ve never seen a game (single or multiplayer) that has been improved thanks to the things I mentioned.
The issue I’m having with this is, without those things…well, what do you have? In what way can the game be fun, interesting, and engaging without those things? It certainly seems like, if that game was feasible, it would exist, right? I mean, you’ve described stripping basically all the “Flavor” out of the game, leaving every class exactly the same (Except maybe you get to choose your level of focus in offense, defense, and support). That game sounds a -hell- of a lot easier to program and design than any modern MMO, I’m thinking if someone could make that fun, it’d already exist.
I’d argue against point 6 – everyone pays a price for missing or mis-using a skill – either its on CD, or you spent Initiative, or your locked out of that attunement, etc… Even if an ability makes you completely immune (like say, mist form) using it too early or too late can be the mistake that ends the fight. Maybe I’m not thinking of it in the right light, can you describe something from GW2 you feel is a “Safe” action?
I’d also argue against point 5. If it’s not a team game, why bother making an MMO? Furthermore, I remember (before paid tourneys), when the really strong teams were emerging in free tourneys, they were generally the teams that -knew- how to make use of their combo fields. This is the only MMO I can really think of (of those I’ve played) that encourages team play beyond the normal “Focus fire”, “I’ll use my big CC to stop him” or “Hit the guy when i put the heal debuff on him”. Combo fields encourage you to use them when your team can take advantage of them, rather than just using your abilities as fast as possible.
Many games exist that have unique and interesting options without using the things I mentioned. Check out games like Street Fighter IV, Ultimate Marvel Vs. Capcom 3, David Sirlin’s Yomi, Pokemon, and DCUO (last I remember anyway haven’t played it in forever).
Remember it’s not the mechanics that matter in game design it’s the decisions you get make with them. You don’t want to add mechanics that limit player interaction or depth even if they are “fun”.
http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/counter-play
Option safety has more to do with how players can (or can’t) interact with their opponent’s decisions.
Using GW2 as an example a warrior’s Kill Shot and Necro’s Death Shroud and corruption skills are unsafe moves, use them at the wrong time and your opponent can use it to their advantage.
Examples of safe options include mesmer, thief, and guardian skills and most profession’s “1” attack. Even if you know they’re coming you can’t stop them and even if you dodge or negate them in some way you can’t really gain a meaningful advantage from doing so.
The main problem with group PvP is once you start adding more players the game becomes less about player interaction and more about assist train optimization or abusing some kind of synchronized rotation. Sure in small group encounters you can get good interaction with players trying to out think each other’s moves, but once you start getting to more than three players per team balance starts getting harder to pull off and if the game system isn’t specifically designed to support it the game will become less about team play and more about zerging.
Lastly most players just don’t have access to an organized pvp team and it does no good to design around a game mode that most people can’t or won’t play.
Remember the 40 man PvE raids from vanilla WoW and how players complained about how mindless and exclusive they were? It’s the same concept in group PvP.
While it’s true hundred blades can be avoided that’s not what the OP is upset about.
I love the part where every point you’ve made is infringed by every esport I’ve seen played on the tournament level.
Let’s try this another way:
The six items I listed are the leading causes of dominate strategies in video games. For those of you who don’t know dominate strategies are bad design.
And even if GW2 was the most balanced PVP game in the history of ever it’s hard for players and spectators to take it seriously as a competitive game when it allows players to be stunned then one-shotted by an invisible warping opponent, turned into a moa bird then killed by an army of NPCs, be forced to fight against an immovable invincible bunker that reflects damage for free, or require you have your own personal posse of FotM gankers in order to fully experience the game. One reason why PvE is so popular is because PvEers generally don’t have to deal with that kind of stuff.
Can you include these kinds of things in your game? Sure, many designers do, but it would be better if they didn’t because they don’t add anything to competitive play and balancing around them is really, really, really, really hard.
I’ve never seen a game (single or multiplayer) that has been improved thanks to the things I mentioned.
Take a look at this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpLexfg_w4Y
Ignoring the actual game this is the kind interaction you want between players during PvP. The things I listed reduce a player’s ability to make the kinds decisions found in the video.
It’s not about removing interesting or fun mechanics and making everyone the same in the name of balance it’s about removing extraneous details that don’t contribute to the overall design goal of competitive play.
So your idea is 1v1 with only damage, mitigation,and heals?
My idea of PvP is a game system that promotes interaction between players not solely the game mechanics. The things I listed always seem to remove or reduce that interaction to the point where the game is no longer interesting to play.
Interesting points but I feel they’re all superficial and don’t really address what’s really wrong with PvP.
The whole point of competitive gaming is to test skills outside the realm of the game and GW2 doesn’t do that.
For example professional Poker isn’t really about cards it’s a game of psychology, game theory, and probability; the rules of Poker just serve as a medium to test a player’s ability to utilize those skills.
GW2 PvP on the other hand only requires players know what the game’s broken stuff is and exploit it.
To me all the things that you listed are just symptoms of a much bigger problem.
Of course I could be wrong on all these points, but I have yet to find any game (single or multiplayer) that incorporates these items while still remaining competitive or balanced. If one exists I’d like to see it.
Can GW2 make it as a competitive game while these kinds of options remain? Even if they were balanced is it worth designing around them if they turn off the casual player base?
I’d love to hear what you guys think.
I’m fairly certain LoL violates every one of your points (possibly not point #6, but I’m unsure what exactly you mean by that one).
1. LoL has crowd control skills, whether that’s as a stun, grab, or snare, they are a critical part of the game.
2. There are movement skills in LoL that work in more or less the same fashion as in GW2. It could be argued that any movement skill is coming at the cost of another skill the champion would carry otherwise, but that’s the case for these skills in GW2 as well. If I take “Retreat!” for swiftness, I can’t take a different utility in its place. Shortbow thief has Infiltrator’s Arrow, but that’s their 5-slot weapon skill, which is a lot to give up, and it costs half their total Initiative to use.
3. Stealth is a major mechanic in LoL. However, all characters have access to items which can see through invisibility which mitigates the effect.
4. Creeps are obviously uncontrolled AI minions. Beyond that, I’m fairly certain Tibbers behaves similarly to a ranger’s pet.
5. LoL has the same 5v5 team oriented structure as GW2’s tPvP has.
Personally I feel that LoL is the game design equivalent of the Twilight novels. It’s popular and everyone likes it but for all the wrong reasons.
The point I’m trying to make things like CC and stealth play a major role in any game they’re featured in and anything that doesn’t have these abilities or any way to deal with them is not viable in competitive play thus limiting the strategic depth of a game.
You have to design around these and if you do the game usually ends up being really boring to play.
Risk Free Repositioning: Teleporting, shadow stepping, portals, knockbacks, etc. Anything that gets you from point A to B easier or faster than the other guy without some major drawback is going to be overpowered.
The Major Drawback is that you now have a stun-breaker on Cd.
6. Free/Safe Actions: Every option that is made available to a player has must have some form of penalty and/or exploitable weakness attached to it. Nothing should be safe only safer.
What do you mean by this?
CDs aren’t really drawbacks especially if you used your CD at the correct time.
What I mean by risk free repositioning is placing yourself in a favorable spot without any way for your opponent to respond or any at cost to yourself.
Steal and Infiltrator’s Arrow are examples of a risk-free reposition options because a player can use them to get a in a favorable position without any real cost and there’s not much a player can do to prevent it even if they know it’s coming.
A safe option just means that there’s no real risk to using it and even if it’s used poorly a player can’t really be punished for doing it.
One way to understand safe or unsafe options is to think of Chess. No matter what play you make you’re exposing yourself to attack in some way.
Compared to GW2 where I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been able to survive or defeat players I know are better than me simply because I was playing a mesmer or a thief and there was nothing they could have realistically done to stop me even if I had made several mistakes during the fight.
Try making a mistake as a ranger and watch what happens.
(edited by Boloth.6879)
I find that these six items are the main causes of imbalances in pvp games. It seems impossible to design a competitive system that includes them without them becoming a dominate strategy, limiting the strategic options the game, or just not being fun or interesting to play against. I feel they must be removed completely from any MMO that wants to be taken seriously as a competitive game.
1. Crowd Control: Next to gameplay control is the next thing players notice while playing. Taking away that control is very serious matter and not something players should be able to do to each other whenever they feel like it. Even if there are ways to counter it it’s always the best decision you could make.
2. Risk Free Repositioning: Teleporting, shadow stepping, portals, knockbacks, etc. Anything that gets you from point A to B easier or faster than the other guy without some major drawback is going to be overpowered.
Check your game design history, in every game that’s ever been made (single or multiplayer) the most powerful options are ALWAYS the ones that allow for easier repositioning or denying position to your opponent.
3. Invisibility: Stealth is fine, invisibility is not. In addition to not being fun to play against invisibility violates one of the key concepts of competitive gaming: making decisions based on the actions of your opponent. You can’t make meaningful decisions based on an opponent you can’t see.
It’s also impossible to design effective counters to invisibility without giving everyone the same access to it or removing its viability.
4. Fire and Forget AI (Pets): Everything in PvP must be controlled by a player. Duh.
5. Group PvP: PvPers are very selfish people, the only skill they care about is their own. More importantly PvP becomes exponentially harder to balance and less accessible the more players are involved. Unless you’re designing a game like baseball and put strict limits on what players can and can’t do team PvP will not support competitive play.
6. Free/Safe Actions: Every option that is made available to a player has must have some form of penalty and/or exploitable weakness attached to it. Nothing should be safe only safer.
Of course I could be wrong on all these points, but I have yet to find any game (single or multiplayer) that incorporates these items while still remaining competitive or balanced. If one exists I’d like to see it.
Can GW2 make it as a competitive game while these kinds of options remain? Even if they were balanced is it worth designing around them if they turn off the casual player base?
I’d love to hear what you guys think.
is also another good discussion: should pvp be something that is more balanced by statistics and numbers or more so experiences by players.
My Views on Competitive Game Design:
A game is balanced when it is designed around a system that supports many viable options the more viable options a game supports the more balanced it is.
An option is viable when it meets all three criteria:
1. It must be unique and cannot used in a matter that is identical to another option.
2. It cannot be strictly dominated by another option.
3. It must provide a meaningful advantage during the game.
A game is competitive when it is designed around a system that tests skills that transcend the gameplay mechanics, the more skills it tests the more competitive it is.
IMO you can’t design a competitive game around decisions or options that have absolute worth, if you do it won’t take long for players to “solve” the game’s system.
Once a game has been solved it is no longer a game and cannot be played competitively which is what’s starting to happen in GW2.
Thank you all for the feedback, and the maturity to keep this going in a civilized yet intellectual manner. I have read all of the comments, and can say there are views that I do agree with, and disagree with. Some people feel that implementing a “Duel” option, would cause the players to put their ego on a pedestal, and decrease player morale. While I can agree with it, I think certain things in MMO’s are inevitable, and with a duel option comes those type of players. However, if that were to be implemented in the game, I would ask for at least an option to make your characters unable to duel. So a duel could not be requested of you, or sent etc……
Another thing, some of you guys claim that 2v2s and 3v3s are not needed, where as I stated that they are. I have done some thinking, and yes. I agree that they are not needed, but it would be a lot of fun to have the option to do such things. Think about it, instead of walking on to a point to capture, then being bombed with combo fields and things of the sort, it would be you and 1 partner, working together playing off of each other. It could get to the point where you two are almost in sync.
Would that not be fun for you guys? Personally, I would love it. The combinations would be so fun to play with!
Again I thank you guys (girls too, don’t get picky) for reading this thread and posting within it. I like to see collaborative minds coming together and sharing ideas and feelings towards how things are now, rather than someone raging saying F THIS GAME.
Please continue to share.
-Kyle
Adding new game modes like duels or 2v2 might be fun, but unfortunately fun has a very short shelf life. If you want to build a truly competitive game that will stand the test of time you have to think beyond fun and start designing around competitive metagaming.
In order for a game to have a competitive metagame it has to serve as a medium for skills outside of the realm of its rules (and before anyone says it input device dexterity and situational awareness are not skills).
For example, Street Fighter IV isn’t really about picking the best character or having great combo execution skills, it’s about reading your opponent and controlling space on the field. So even if you picked the worst character in the game if you were a master at getting into your opponent’s head you’d win every game. Because SF4 was designed around this concept it was e-sport ready at release and is still played professionally to this day.
PvP in GW2 and most video games in general are just cleverly disguised optimization puzzles that only require that players know what the OP builds/classes/rotations/tactics are and then use them to defeat anyone who doesn’t. This shallow game play is what players are really complaining about.
So before the devs can even begin balancing the professions or adding new game modes they would first have to design a system that supports competitive metagaming and then create a set of rules and game mechanics to support it; anything else is just a waste of time.
PvP isn’t really dead but it certainly isn’t going to improve beyond what it is now.
Unfortunately the problem with PvP has nothing to do with game mechanics or balance but with system design so unless the next patch is Guild Wars 3: PvP Edition nothing the devs do can save it.
PvP can still be fun just don’t take it seriously.
While these might be valid issues fixing them won’t really change anything in PvP.
The main issue with PvP has more to do with faulty system design and would require more time and effort to fix than I think the devs are willing to put out.
To understand good competitive system design you have to look outside GW2 and the MMO genre and study competitive gaming as a whole.
I recommend going to YouTube and watching a few episodes from the Day9 Daily and UltraChen TV and listen to how the host(s) commentate, analyze, and break down games.
Then check out some videos of matches from EVO and take note of the kinds of decisions players make during the games and who wins and why.
Once you’ve done that you will understand the real problem with PvP.
While Mesmers could probably use some nerfs most suggestions are just going to result in the profession being made obsolete or not really having any impact at all. In order to balance mesmers right you need to have a design plan other than “nerf the broken stuff”.
First we need to decide just what a mesmer is supposed to do and how they should be played. Once we do that it’s a lot easier to see where the problems are.
Next we need to make sure mesmers have a unique strength. They have to provide a meaningful advantage that no other profession can.
Finally they need an exploitable weakness. The weakness must be unique to the profession and severe enough so mesmer players can’t ignore or trivialize it.
So here’s how I would fix mesmers:
Mesmer’s Role/Play style
A Mesmer’s job is to waste their opponent’s time and resources by tricking them into attacking their illusions. Illusions don’t deal damage, but players will still see numbers from the illusion’s attacks making them very convincing to unwary opponents. If defeated illusions will apply debuffs to the target(s) that damaged them or buffs to nearby allies.
Mesmer’s Weakness
A mesmser’s weakness is their opponents competence. A mesmer player must be aware of how their target is responding to their illusions and tricks and not behave in any way that would draw attention to themselves. Mesmers have no defense outside of their mind games.
Here are some sample rebalanced mesmer skills:
Mirror Images: Summons an illusion that mimics your movements and attacks, but with a slight delay. If defeated you and nearby allies gain protection and might for 10 seconds. If it is not defeated after 10 seconds the illusion will vanish and you become weakened for 5 seconds.
Feedback: Creates a small dome that reflects all damage taken. You or one of your illusions must remain inside the dome for this effect to occur.
Chaos Armor (Staff): Give Chaos Armor to yourself and your illusions. Reducing all damage taken, but causing unpredictable effects to yourself whenever you or your illusions are struck.
Moa Morph: Summons a friendly unstable Moa Spirit. The spirit will slowly chase down your target increasing in speed each time one of your illusions is destroyed. If the spirit makes contact with a foe they will turn into a Moa Bird for 5 minutes. If the spirit does not make contact with a foe after 10 seconds it will become hostile and instantly return to you. The effects of Moa Morph persist through death.
Ether Feast (Heal Skill): Heal Yourself. Gain additional health for each active illusion. Using this skill causes you to glow for 3 seconds.
You can’t balance PvP around numbers or individual abilities, only systems and play styles. Otherwise you’ll just be playing FoTM Whac-A-Mole with the professions, and that’s terrible.
Anet is aiming for this to eventually become an e-sport. That means balance is centered around TPvP. The next time something ludicrous happens in a hot join, rather than running to the boards to cry, but take a deep breath and count to 10 – things that work with 8 unorganized lone wolfs are not the same as things that work against 5 coordinated players communicating via VoIP. I know this won’t do anything, but it had to be said.
In all the online games I’ve ever played, I’ve never seen kittening of this magnitude. Especially in a 2 month old game.
You bring up a good point.
However, it does no good to build a competitive game that’s balanced around a format that most players aren’t able or interested in playing.
8v8 hotjoin is the most accessible form of sPvP and the format most players will use to base their opinion on the current state of PvP.
Please stop trying to force the Hungry Hungry Hippos analogy. I know you probably think it’s clever, but at best, it’s completely wrong.
Like it or not that’s what PvP is like.
Players use the exact same 3-button gimmicks every game without any regard for what their opponent is doing.
I never cared much for Guild Wars 2 becoming an e-sport. That’s not why I got the game.
The point I was trying to make is don’t expect PvP to evolve past what it is now.
ArenaNet can release all the PvP updates and balance fixes they want but unless they do a complete system redesign (they won’t) PvP will never have that competitive metagame players are looking for.
So don’t worry about ranked matches, spectator mode, new game maps, or whatever the next overpowered FoTM build is.
Just enjoy sPvP for what it is: Hungry Hungry Hippos with more buttons to mash.
If Guild Wars 2 was e-sport material it would have been one yesterday.
Developers can’t just will an e-sport into existence. Video games become e-sports when there’s a community of players and spectators that feel the game is worth taking seriously on a professional level.
sPvP features, balance changes, and ranking systems won’t change a thing as long as PvP is the MMO equivalent of Hungry Hungry Hippos.
If ArenaNet truly wants to create an e-sport they need to create a good PvP experience first, the rest will take care of itself.
Moderator Edit: Edited sensationalistic title
(edited by Moderator)
Backstab is fine. You may say bullkitten and so on but it is fine. It is a high risk high gain skill. Why does its hard to evade then? Combining with Basilisk it is hard to avoid, but since basilisk are able to be stun break, it is easier yet it is still hard.
Here is why. What make backstab is not really a “high risk” skill is the fact that people are able to CnD>Stealth/Sidestep signet = instant teleport and invi to the person. This is what make the skill over powered. Yes, you can have an awareness to your surrounding, and when you see a thieves, you’ll just get ready to dodge/stun break when he’s in 900 range. But when you don’t see him it will lead to instant death.
Imo, don’t nerf the backstab damage. It is stupid. It’s like nerfing PW damage when the real thing that need to be remove is quickness.
Just make sure that if you cast other skill after CnD, it will cancel the CnD. For example CnD>Steal. With this, thieves are unable to instant teleport to you while getting instant stealth and stone you at the same time. If CnD is canceled when you use other skill, backstab will be easier to counter and at the same time making it less OP while maintaining its damage.
Thoughts?
I don’t see what’s so hard about this.
Players do not like losing control of their character while being killed instantly by an invisible opponent.
It doesn’t matter if there are one million ways to counter it.
It’s not fun to play against.
The question that players should be asking isn’t if backstab thieves can be countered or not but “Do they promote a healthy competitive environment”?
Because it’s not the forum posters that you need to convince that backstab is fine, it’s the players who get one-shotted, decide the game isn’t worth their time, and then quit without saying a word.
And frankly I’m getting sick of seeing players defend backstab thieves and other faceroll builds because they’re not doing it because they truly believe it’s balanced, they’re doing it because playing them lets them pretend that they’re actually good and they don’t want their power trip taken away.
You aren’t fooling anyone.
A sample of PvP skills thieves should have gotten in GW2.
Invisibility is out, burst damage is out, shadow stepping is out, risk-free gameplay is out.
Stealth is in, mind games are in, teamwork is in.
Enjoy.
Utility Skills
Prone Stance (Stealth): Drop to the ground and enter a prone stance reducing movement speed by 50% and removing your name tag. If you remain prone for 10 seconds or more you will enter a hidden state allowing for the use of sneak attacks.
Camouflage Kit (Stealth): Disguise yourself as an environmental object reducing movement speed by 75%. While camouflaged enemy players will not be able to target you, but you can still be attacked. If you remain camouflaged for 10 seconds or more you will enter a hidden state allowing for the use of sneak attacks.
Disguise Kit (Stealth): Disguise yourself as an enemy player. You will appear as a friendly target from a distance but your disguise will be removed if an enemy player gets too close. If you remain disguised for 45 seconds or more you will enter a hidden state allowing for the use of sneak attacks.
Pitfall Trap (Trap): Create a pitfall trap at your feet. Enemies that fall into the trap will become trapped and are unable to move until rescued by a teammate.
Cyanide Pill (Trick): Swallow a cyanide pill and take damage equal to 100% of your health. This defeat does not count as a player kill.
Sleeping Gas Bomb (Trick): Throw a sleeping gas grenade that explodes at target location. Targets that remain in the gas for longer than three second will fall asleep for 20 seconds but will awake early if they take damage or are revived by a teammate. If you are caught in the gas you will also fall asleep. Sleeping targets cannot defend or capture points.
Perfect Touch (Steal): Attempt to steal the equipped armor from a target. If successful the target’s armor will be removed and their armor rating will be reduced to 0. Any damage taken will interrupt the effect. The effects of Perfect Touch persist through death.
Mindrend Venom (Venom): Apply Mindrend Venom to your weapons. Each hit with your weapons applies one charge of Mindrend Venom to your target. If your target receives 25 charges of Mindrend Venom they will begin to hallucinate, seeing things that aren’t really there. The effects of Mindrend Venom last 1 minute. You may only have one applied venom at a time.
Sneak Attacks:
Knowing the Opponent (Sword Main Hand): Study your target while in a hidden state. As long as you have initiative your target will not be able to dodge while within 900 range of you. If you run out of initiative the effects ends.
Backstab (Dagger Main Hand): Deal damage to your target while in a hidden state. If you have an active venom this attack applies 50 charges of that venom to your target.
Kneecapper (Pistol Main Hand): Fire a crippling shot while in a hidden state. For the next 10 seconds your target takes damage whenever they move.
Elite Skills:
Offer You Can’t Refuse (Bribe): Attempt to bribe an enemy player. If the player accepts the bribe their team gains 150 points. However, that player will not be able to target, see, or deal damage to you. If the player refuses the bribe your damage dealing sneak attacks are all instant kills. Cannot be used on players in combat. The effects of this skill persist through death.
Inside Job (Bribe): Attempt to bribe an enemy player. If they accept they receive 50% less damage from all attacks and your steal and trap skills activate 50% faster. If the player refuses as long as you are within 900 range of them their abilities recharge and activate 50% slower. Cannot be used on players in combat. The effects of this skill persist through death.
Basilisk Venom (Venom): Apply basilisk venom to your weapon. Each weapon hit applies 1 charge of basilisk venom to your target. If your target receives 50 charges of basilisk venom they will be turned to stone for 10 seconds. You may only have one applied venom at a time.
When Guild Wars 2 came out I wanted to play a thief in PvP.
- I wanted to turn enemies to stone with basilisk venom then use a smoke bomb to stealth my warrior friend so he can shatter them with a hammer sneak attack for an instant kill.
- I wanted to sabotage an enemy trebuchet so it rains healing artillery on my team the next time it’s used.
- I wanted to use stealth not invisibility to surprise my enemies.
- I wanted to set pitfall traps that catch unwary players off guard, trapping them inside until a teammate comes to rescue them.
- I wanted to carefully time the use of my steal ability so I could disarm warriors in the middle of combat and finish them off with their own weapons.
- I wanted to be blown to smithereens while disabling an engineer’s rocket turret because I was unaware of the well-placed land mines protecting it.
- I wanted to be frozen solid by elementalists and left at their mercy because I felt I was too good to slot my “dodge magic” utility skill.
- I wanted ranger pets to alert their masters of my presence so they can kill me with a well-placed sniper shot.
- I wanted necros to be able to infect my thief with a putrid disease that persists through death and allows everyone to smell me coming from across the map and track my movements leaving me with nowhere to hide.
- I wanted to have the lowest damage in the game and be forced to rely on trickery to win fights rather than just maximizing my damage output.
- I wanted to play a stealth class in PvP that demands more from me than just three buttons.
Am I the only person who wanted to play a thief and not an assassin?
Based on what I’m reading on the forums I get the feeling that what most players really want from PvP in this game are balanced 1-on-1 fighting game style duels.
It’s perfectly fine to want this since most serious competitive video games are played 1-on-1.
And let’s be realistic, balancing a team based game is extremely difficult and usually requires a very rigid rule set and strict limits on what players can and can’t do so when a MMORPG developer tells you that their game is balanced around group PvP they’re usually lying, and even if their game is balanced most players aren’t going to be able to form serious teams and experience PvP as it was meant to be played.
So are you satisfied with the current sPvP/tPvP format or would you rather just duel?
If certain professions are truly ruining PvP the best thing the community can do at this point is issue a soft-ban against them.
Don’t play them and refuse to play against any team that’s using them.
The best way to get a point across in PvP is to refuse to play.