Showing Posts For Calerxes.1364:
All the things you are doing on your Loremaster are now spread among all the classes in GW2 and a few of them like cleanse wounds etc… can be sorted by the players by taking salves into a dungeons and other things you are doing should not require you to do them like heal and rez. In GW2 all players have the responsibility to remove conditions, mitigate damage (by movement), heal themselves, control mobs, remove control effects, rez players. Players have to be aware of the players around them and not expect the Loremaster/healer/tank to be on the ball all the time.
Responsibility is with everyone and not just the tank/healer/support class in the group and I did go on to mention more sophisticated trinity games, I’m not bashing trinity MMO’s other than maybe WoW, so you can include LotRO in that. The point is that playing GW2 efficiently and successfully takes skill and understanding of the classes and thinking in terms of individual roles and is thus not a “simplistic” system as the bodies strewn all over Tyria waiting to be rezzed would not exist. But its not perfect and is a new concept so will take time to iron out the wrinkles, think back to earlier MMO’s and their boss mechanics were all Tank ‘n’ Spank on the whole, it took time to start adding in some complexity. Lets have something different like GW2’s system and it may encourage other dev’s to take a risk and design their own “non trinity” system.
I agree the game is new so it may have more complexity added to it, but as for the rest, you are talking about two seperate issues, responsibilty and depth/complexity, the game is simply not as complex for all the reasons I mentioned before, that my loremaster’s duties are spread out to various classes/builds in GW2 just means when I play as an individual my GW2 classes are less complex, require less awareness, less multitasking, less decision making, less priortizating than my loremaster, chlorodom, etc in other games.
But to an extent that is understandable, GW2 is a game that has a more action type style, so requires more movement (though not all games are as static as WoW, and PvP is not static in any game, unless you like to die a lot), and generally more twitch.
As for responsibilty I am not even sure I agree with that, a player is more responsible for themselves, but on the other hand if you are used to playing a healer/tank/key support (in games that have those) it is a step down in responsibility. Also overall the game is currently much more forgiving, so in other ways promotes less responsibiity – e.g, in a raid a DPS can still cause a wipe, or will be assigned as interrupter or will simply not output enough DPS because the margins for success in many other games for things like enrage timers are far more severe.
But anyway just to clarify, I don’t want GW2 to go the whole trinty route, it is nice they are doing something a bit different (though not that differnet action type MMOs often lack real healers and/or tanks), just doesn’t stop me sometimes missing a bit more complexity/multitasking or the total change of playstyle that healer provides.
You are not talking about complexity you are talking about fulfilling a role and if the group is set up properly you’ll have just that responsibility, thats not complexity that just playing your role properly and certain roles carry the rest of the group, its a simplification, just because you have a few more buttons to press doesn’t mean a thing. When the group has to react to changing conditions of the fight on the fly that adds complexity because you have to know how to adapt at that precise moment, its like going from an automatic car to a manual you now have better more responsive control over the situation if it goes wrong you can pull it back, in your scenario once the tank/healer combo goes down, wipe, game over, you cannot get it back and thus all the raging on healers and tanks not doing their job properly. In holy trinity games you have one thing to do on the whole and most choose the easy option DPS, thus when faced with playing other roles they freak out, thus GW2 forums. And this is all based around gearscore before you even start. Its like comparing the complexity of Formula One and WRC, WRC is a massively more complex sport in regards to actually driving skills while F1 is procession technology the ones with the biggest gearscore win.
(edited by Calerxes.1364)
I miss my monk..
I think the lack of a traditional trinity really limits what the combat could have been in this game, but i think they sacrificed it to design the game in a casual manner. The combat has very little depth to it in my opinion and people don’t really group together for combat purposes outside of dungeons..just feels a little poorly put together. I think what’s missing is integral roles. With everyone being able to do basically the same things with minor flavor differences, players lose a bit of their identity and integrity that we were used to with the roles in more traditional MMOs.
I think they could do a lot by way of bringing back the Monk or at least the Ritualist in the coming expansion, buffing the effects of healing power considerably, and just adding a lot more healing skills to the game for each class…maybe even let a player slot a whole bar of healing skills in their utility slots. I dunno, i think that a lot of people miss this defined role. I’d like to see something more, but i don’t want LF Healer coming back…i’d just like to see multiple classes become more viable speccing into support only roles. Plus, i think they can do a lot, creatively, with the Ritualist or Monk in a Cantha expansion and putting a healing centered class in this game doesnt have to make that the only viable way to play. It’d be nice to see a team without a healer just as viable as a team with one rather than just avoiding the paradigm altogether because, frankly, many enjoy it.
This combat system is about thinking on your feet not spamming a rotation you’ve worked out or read about on interwebz, while expecting the other players to keep you up, hold aggro or nuke, where’s the depth in that? The case for this combat system being shallow is a spurious one with many players complaining (this thread) that they are finding it difficult and wishing they could go back to the cut and dried Holy Trinity. Shallow this system isn’t players are still trying to pigeon hole themselves into roles and not building balanced toons that have a talent in one area but can do the other two disciplines well, and also players need to stop obsessing about DPS and learn about support and control.
The combat is more fluid and natural where you have to do whats needed to be done at the right time. The system is new and original and will take time to be played properly, it isn’t perfect and needs tweeks but its a refreshing change from playing an Affliction Warlock in a group with dot, dot, dot ,tab, dot dot dot, tab, drain, drain, drain you have to be aware of whats actually happening to you and others. I haven’t worked out how to play my Warrior or Engineer properly yet but thats the fun and I’m getting better at slowly
(edited by Calerxes.1364)
Actually as a long time MMO healer i kinda like the lack of a “healer” i play a guardian and yes i add so many buffs in a group you need a second screen to see them, i ward i heal i regen but im not a “healer” if the warrior charges into 20 mobs and dies its his fault for being an idiot not my fault because i couldnt heal 5 times his health pool in 0.005 seconds
People are used to DPS being all reward and no responsibility, they get agro its the tanks fault, they die its the healers fault now you screw up its YOUR fault no one elses
i like it
Spot on.
If all your doing for a pt is just dmg your doing it wrong. This game is not about overspecialization that what the 3 way mmorpgs are about not GW2 because it dose not have it in this game (tank dps support). Please stop trying to make the game something that its not.
I’ve being thinking that this is the problem all along you are not just one thing in a group dynamic you are all things, until players get out of the “its all about DPS” attitude these problem with continue to seem bigger than they actually are. But of course we are now 6 months in and into the realm of speed running content, so 30 sec’s shaved off of a run is paramount, so what is it, 4 Warriors and Mesmer are FOTM for ironically FOTM.