Guild Wars 2

Rolo.9248:

Samaul.6073:

The purpose of this thread is to suggest ways to improve GW2 performance on high end PCs without getting your GPU or CPU so hot you can fry an egg on it.

If it isn’t overclocked, it isn’t “high-end”; it is mid-range at best. Intel sells and advertises CPUs for the purpose of overclocking (that’s what K and X models are for). This isn’t apocryphal: Intel provides the information and the tools to overclock.

Overclockinkittenroves GW2 performance directly and is therefore directly on-topic; your
fear-mongering isn’t. Improper or extreme overclocking can damage components; proper overclocking will not, as it still keeps components within manufacturer’s specifications. I don’t know how that can be more clear.

Besides, I just read a thread where a guy’s new Alienware locks up running GW2. What is Anet going to say if he were to open a ticket? Disable overclocking as it comes “factory” overclocked. I don’t know why some think “factory” overclocking is any different than individual overclocking: they are the same components but the difference will be that the personally-invested individual can spend more time on it and get better, more solid results.

Using the “factory” logic, I personally build and sell high-end PCs (since 1991, for individuals and small businesses, schools) and every single one of them is overclocked. Is my having ZERO hardware failures attributed to my being a so-called “factory” or is it that I only pick quality components and that I know what I am doing?

Well I said I wouldn’t come back, but this response is so full of “Win” i just had to. Well said Rolo.9248

Oh on a side note, noticed when googling Alienware core voltages (wanted to see how much vcore alienware supplied since they are the “Authority” on overclocks, and saw that for very modest overclocks they were applying 1.36 to 1.38v on various 2nd and 3rd gen I7 processors. And to think I dropped my OC from 4.0 to 3.85 to lower my vcore from 1.336 (1.287 in bios) under load with LLC enabled to 1.304 (1.276) under load with LLC. Note I have read multiple times that Sandy Bridge will easily do 4.5+ on air at very modest clocks, my first gen Lynnfield takes quite a bit more voltage but still is well below the 1.4v threshold Intel sets per its whitesheet.

http://en.community.dell.com/owners-club/alienware/f/3746/p/19444344/20088236.aspx

http://www.alienwarearena.com/forums/topic/18902/hardware/alienware-aurora-vcore/

http://forum.desktopreview.com/alienware/242998-aurora-r3-overclocking-2.html

Even those users recognized that the Vcore applied was a tad too strong for the overclocks they were getting. Good thing they warranty their dual purpose egg fryers/gaming computers.

Oh thought I’d add this since I’ve been questioned about my knowledge multiple times, note I just set this up yesterday somewhat based off of a stable 4.0ghz at 1.336 under load with LLC, notice how long prime has been running if you can.

http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2525347

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/152/eggfryingtime.jpg/

So yeah I have no clue what I’m doing, notice lacks like 40 min got 24 hrs on prime with about 90% memory usage and both error checkings on.

@ Samaul

You have a lot of interesting theory’s and misconceptions about system building and overclocking in general, so at this point I have decided to just agree to disagree with you and leave it at that. This thread is anything but constructive when 2 people with opposing views constantly bump heads, I would only invoke people to check things out at other sites, not just here, if interested in either buying a pre-built system, building your own system, or overclocking. as Samaul listed www.anandtech.com, I will list some others which I think are helpful.

Oh on a side note, I noticed you said your computer restarts or has issues if you don’t turn on the active thermal cooling or whatever you called it. You can download a program here that might help.

http://www.almico.com/speedfan.php

Speedfan taps into your motherboards and cpu’s speed and temperature sensors and although at first seems a bit overwhelming it can be set up to ramp up your speeds of any fan it can read that supports pwm (pulse width modulation) based on whatever temperature readout you wish. It can also be set to start up with Windows via the Task Scheduler and once set up is a more or less set and forget program. No need to turn on anything if gaming, if your cpu/video card goes over the user defined temperature (set as desired) it will speed up. Note you can set the minimum and maximum temps so that when browsing the internet or watching videos your fans will remain quiet, and when things heat up, they speed up.

Another great program is EVGA precision. It can be downloaded here.

http://majorgeeks.com/EVGA_Precision_d6209.html

It allows you to set up custom fan curves for your video card, and IMHO the stock fan curve is a little less aggressive than I would like and tailored more for quietness at least on the GTX 580.

Also if you don’t keep you hard drive properly defragmented over time your overall performance will suffer. I think that Mydefrag is a great disk defragmenter that goes above and beyond most other ones with its ability to defrag by path and by file type and size. its also freeware.

http://www.mydefrag.com/

Ever Wonder what is going on with your computer, what drivers are running, what programs are set to start up with windows automatically, or if there are any unwanted spyware or malware that is running on your computer that you can’t seem to find? Try autoruns, it gives a full list of everything that is set to auto run on your computer, and allows you to click to disable auto starting. Its made by Microsoft and is an invaluable tool for seeing everything in a shapshot.

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb963902.aspx

Want an easy all in one registry/computer cleaner that will clean out all of your temp files/browsing history, any temp junk that you would want to clean before doing a defragment (which its better to actually defrag in safe mode once you finish the cleaning) try Ccleaner. One note, under the applications Window please uncheck the box next to Ms Search. It will delete the database that Windows Search uses the quickly find files when you search for them in the start menu, and cause the search indexer to constantly run trying to rebuild the search index.

http://www.tomshardware.com/ http://www.guru3d.com/ http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/ http://www.xbitlabs.com/ http://www.tweakguides.com/ http://www.benchmarkreviews.com/
http://www.jonnyguru.com/ http://www.frostytech.com/
http://www.overclockers.com/ http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/forum.php

When making an informed decision on buying a Computer or individual components, it is best to get more than one opinion to help balance or rule out individual biases. Whenever I look for something I either google reviews/roundsup for the said product type (GTX 670 for instance) or browse thru some of these sites to see which have comparative reviews. Also the last 2 listings are Computer enthusiast forums and have large communities of very knowledgeable people who both real world experience with building and maintaining gaming systems, servers, benchmarking machines, distributed computer farms, etc. Hope some of this helps.

Samaul.6073:

The fact is that with Intel’s Turbo Boost, many high end CPUs are self-overclocking. For example, the i7 3820QM processor in my M14x that I am on right now is capable of increasing its normal clock speed of 2.7 GHz to 3.7 GHz under load conditions.

http://ark.intel.com/products/64889/Intel-Core-i7-3820QM-Processor-(8M-Cache-up-to-3_70-GHz)?wapkw=3820qm

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/benchmarks/laptop/3rd-gen-core-i7-3820qm-mobile.html

That processor, a mobile processor can safely overlcok itself a full 1GHz!

The i7 3770 desktop processor can overclock itself to 3.9 GHz and it has an unlocked multiplier allowing even higher turbo boost speeds

http://ark.intel.com/products/65523/Intel-Core-i7-3770K-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-3_90-GHz

Just 2 or 3 years ago, overclocking enthusiasts would be happy to get those clock speeds out of their systems. So there really is no debate about overclocking. Your high intel PC with Turbo Boost 2.0

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-technology/turbo-boost-technology-video.html?wapkw=turbo+boost+2.0

can safely overclock itself. If you want to push the envelope further, you can do that but it can be risky. I recommend letting a PC builder like Alienware or Falcon Northwest do it for you. They take all the risk in burning-in your systems overclock and warranty the result.

There is a big difference in a processor shutting down cores to stay withing thermal limits (note the top speeds in turbo boost are always with only 1 core active..dont know about you but we are in the multi-core era last time I looked) and one that is overclocked to have all 4 cores running at a certain speed (and stable having passed all those dreaded CPU killing programs)…Next time you want to link a bunch of Intel Marketing Data read it yourself before commenting on it please. Your comparing apples and oranges, turbo boost and overclocking via bios by altering your v-core, multipliers, ram voltage and timings, memory dividers, etc are totally different creatures.

Samaul.6073:

You do not need to overclock your system to get good performance out of GW2. Again, most of the new i7 processors overclock themselves. You can improve your GW2 performance by following the responsible suggestions I and others have given you that do not involve great risk to your system and the purchase of expensive components.

Thats only partially correct, you don’t necessarily need to overclock to play GW2, but doing so is not irresponsible and does not necessarily involve the purchase of expensive components. Note you pointed out purchase of expensive components and Alienware is probably the most expensive/worst bang for your buck way to go about getting a gaming computer unless its for a laptop only. On the contrary many people overclock as a means of taking a $200 dollar processor and making it match the performance of a $1000+ one. Ever wonder why Intel and AMD provide unlocked multipliers on their processors (and no its not to slow them down they already have Cool and Quiet (AMD) & Speedstep (Intel) which dynamically changes speeds based on load. Look at the entire industry, many motherboards are marketed as overclocker friendly with increased power phases on the VRM section, a more open bios, dual bio’s made as a backup in case on gets corrupted, etc. This whole argument I’ve had going on isn’t about whether overclocking or building your own computer will add to your GW2 experience, its about whether its as “Irresponsible” and “dangerous” as you would have everyone believe.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/guild-wars-2-performance-benchmark,3268-7.html

But the issue isn’t do you need to overclock to play GW2, that all depends. If you are using a Core 2 processor or possibly first generation I7/I5/I3 or Bulldozer/Phenom II,Thuban, you will probably see a difference in overclocking somewhat. With Sandy Bridge or Ivy Bridge not so much since they are already extremely fast to begin with. TBH I don’t overclock, I used to, but my processor is fast enough at stock. Did I quit because I think somehow my processor is going to blow up? No, sure there is a such thing as electron mitigation that will slowly kill a processor over time or contribute to its death if you raise voltages too close or past what Intel or AMD stipulates in their whitesheets, but inta-killing a processor on reasonable voltages is almost unheard of unless the processor was defective to begin with. Both my computer and my sons computer (which is a AMD Phenom Based machine I passed down to him a year and a half ago) have been overclocked for periods of more than a year and a half before being returned to stock and both are running fine day in and day out no bluescreens, nothing out of the ordinary.

Samaul.6073:

Chavo.3807:

Overclocking programs don’t fry cpus, extreme voltage combined with improperly cooling processors do.

The programs themselves as I already stated are harmless, they just put a 100% load on the processor.

IBT is harmless? “they just put a 100% load on the processor”?

I dont think you have any clue what you are talking about when you say things like that. Tell me, what consitutes a 100% load on your CPU? How is that defined? There is one key configuration stat that determines the load on your cpu, all other factors being equal. Do you know what that is?

Ever hear of Windows Task Manager? It shows how many threads are running and the general usage? When It’s pegged at 100% and all cores are maxed i’d call that a full load? And about the last part of that previous statement about what constitutes a full load….its not a config stat you mess around with in the Bios, its actually running software that pushes the CPU to 100% utilization..hence the full load as its commonly called in CPU Tweaking Circles.

Samaul.6073:

These statements are categorically false and inaccurate. Statements like this one lead me to believe that you may not be the overclocking expert that you claim to be.

Who said anything about being an expert at overclocking, If you had read what I wrote before you would have noticed that almost all of the commonly used stress test programs were actually programs made to either study or test some type of scientific/mathematical problem and have been ran harmlessly on millions of computers around the world. Don’t take what I say about these programs and twist it around as If i said Overclocking wouldn’t fry a processor, in the contrary certain conditions in overclocking will kill a processor very quickly and I already pointed that out. But running these types of programs on a stock system (or one like yours) is an invaluable tool to get a feel for how well your case cooling is, check for memory errors (in the case of prime 95 blend and Memtest x86+) or other stability. I’m sure if you called Alienware or Falcon Northwest they would agree and probably tell you that they use on of these programs or a variation of them to test their systems as part of their QA process.

Samaul.6073:

Yes, there are cpu burn test programs used by overclockers that can fry your cpu. I can think of one in particular that can do it at cpu settings that might not be considered extreme. It is in fact the best cpu setting burn test program. If your cpu can survive this burn tester at certain settings then it could be considered stable at those settings. However, again, the risk of damaging your cpu or other components is very high with that burn test program and others like it. Use it at your own risk.

NO NO NO that is just smoke and mirrors aimed at scaring people out of touching their own systems……programs don’t burn up any processor that has the Proper Heatsink/TIM application for the amount of voltage it is recieving, and as long as voltages are kept within safe limits….yeah sure you could take the heatsink off and jack the voltage up to 1.6v while heating the inside of your case with a kerosene forced air heater, but then it burnt up because you were purposely setting up conditions for it to fail…again the program is not to blame, the horrible conditions/abuse you gave the processor are. Again in case you missed it, software doesn’t destroy processors…insane voltage and improper cooling do.

Samaul.6073:

….Again, there is one cpu overclocking test program that can literally fry a cpu in a matter of minutes or seconds. I am not going to share that knowledge here no matter how much you insult me or impugn my knowledge of high end PCs and overclocking.

Overclocking programs don’t fry cpus, extreme voltage combined with improperly cooling processors do. Any heavy load put on an extremely overclocked (and not properly cooled) system can cause it to fail very quickly, but were talking in the range of Dice/LN here. Also most systems will blue screen and shut down either due to software instability or the processors own temp sensors when it reaches TjMax. To insta-fry a CPU you would have to jack the voltage up to some insane levels, only when those conditions are met would you possibly fry a cpu, and then its just as likely the that Vrm’s (things that regulate voltage to the CPU) on the motherboard blow first killing the cpu, but this points back to poor motherboard selection, not the fact that the actual cpu stress test did anything. Oh and I’ll go ahead and let the Mystic knowledge out of the bag, the programs he is talking about are called Prime 95, OCCT, and IBT (intel burn test) or LinX. The programs themselves as I already stated are harmless, they just put a 100% load on the processor. The main factor to consider, and one they are commonly used for, is testing to make sure your system cooling is up to par. The only remote chance of these programs frying a processor (and then its not really the program doing the frying) is if the user changed voltages in the Bios to insane levels, and then more than likely the processor would shut itself down first or the system would bluescreen before any damage was done. Most of these so called “Overclocking Tests” are just tests created by the scientific community to find various things such as unknown prime numbers, cures for diseases, or traces of extraterrestrial life (in the case of many Folding at home projects and SETI projects). Due to their nature of running the processor at near 100% capacity these programs have been adopted as stress tests by overclocking enthusiasts, but are in no way harmful when the system they are run on are operating under normal conditions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TJMax#Maximum_junction_temperature

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_95

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folding_at_home

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SETI@home

Knowledge is in no way harmful, it is how that knowledge is used that determines whether the outcome is good or bad.

Samaul.6073:

Some people need to get a grip on reality when it comes to talking about overclocking in the official GW2 forums. Lets say that we turn this into a massive overclocking thread. Then someone fries one or more components in their high end PC. Who are they going to blame? You guessed it, ArenaNet.

Lets try to be responsible. Leave the overclocking discussion to the overclocking enthusiast sites.

Oh and I just lol’ed at this one, are you serious, its like saying omg were talking about NASCAR on a website someone’s gonna sue them if some idiot goes out and runs 130 mph and kills himself. I’m pretty sure there are clauses in the terms and conditions you agreed to when joining these forums that stipulate the opinions and posts that members post here are their own and no way supported by ArenaNet. I’m not sure whether to commend all the small tidbits of useful information I’ve seen the OP post, or question the inherent anti-overclocking and anti-“build your own system” bias I’ve read over the last few pages . Both building your own system and buying pre-built are viable solutions, however it can be argued that building your own is significantly cheaper if you have the know how to build and maintain it.