Guild Wars 2

Ecliptica.7509:

I try to take this problem of sPVP to the light some time ago.

All your ideas are very good, but it can be a little dificult to put it in practice, but im 100% with you, sPVP must change his score system for the health of good PVPers.

The score system MUST be a reflection of your contribution for winning, NOT for killing. The ideas you brought its a reflection of things that you" have to do" for a player, and thats okey, but the major issue its that the players arent playing FTW, so the answer its simple, when you win you doble the score (obviosly the score in general have to change), then with time you adjust the personal score system.

But that generate the problem of ppl going to servers with good players and leavers everywhere, well thats other problem, but basically the solution is to change the stupid bad design of the PVP Browser. Im not going to enter there, but i have some ideas.

I’m not sure if not enough people see the problem, or if people are too lazy to try and change it. I mean for once this isn’t exactly a balance issue so little kids aren’t cry all over the forums about it. It however is a point system that makes only certain builds viable, mainly ones that are built to kill and do nothing else.

Kimbald.2697:

spvp has no concept of defending:

not only is it useless, since you get zerged anyhow, and you simply wasted time not joining you own zerg.

It also gives you nothing for it. Because of the zerging you hardly ever get a kill with the defender bonus.

I get most of my points, and I mean the LARGE mjority, simply by neutralizing and capping points.
The faster I run around to avoid enemies, the more points I gather.
(underligning this because it’s the sad sad state this spvp is in.)

Only if I run in our own zerg, it is worth attacking since you just roflstomp whoever got cought out alone.
This is where the OP comes in: when you outnumber the others, always go for the kills, ignore all else except if the boss happens to be dying.
This is such a fail of a reward system.

The point system is seriously flawed, but so is the whole match design.
A better point system could at least change the match design a bit.

Starting of by giving points for being at a point, and giving points for holding a point each second when enemies are around. Stalling the enemy when dying should give YOU points, not just the ‘resources’.
This would introduce the concept of defending to spvp at least…

Yeah you basically are screwed if you want to actually play smart, because a zerg will just run you over for trying to defend.

Zaft.8194:

Not getting points for defending is absolute bullkitten. It’s absolutely ridiculous when I’m able to hold down a point and kill, say, 5 people who come and try to steal it, and yet get last place on points because other people on the team were fighting in the MIDDLE, not even on a node.

Fighting in mid should not be worth ANY bonus points.
Fighting on an enemy node or your own node should give everyone on the node points.
Capturing or stopping a capture should give everyone on the node points.
Standing on a node should give everyone on the node points every few seconds.
Win bonus shouldn’t even be part of the game. It encourages giving up if things are going poorly.

Bullkitten indeed, but I hope over time more and more people will see the problem and voice their concerns like me. This is an actual problem, not me crying about a class that is OP. Hopefully they can appreciate that and respond sometime in the near future.

Irascible.8210:

+1. This post is really well thought out and put together. I definitely agree with everything up there. A lot of people can’t get a reliable team together for tpvp or just don’t enjoy it. 8v8 in its current state tends to be a complete mess with the best way to earn points/glory being to do the exact opposite of what it takes to win or help the team.

Thanks a lot for the response, I am glad a lot more people see this as a problem other than me. I have always loved Anet, and I want to strive to help them improve their game.

Sorry guys I know you changed my title to have “In my view” but that should already be clear. Also I gave several facts as to why it is flawed, so before changing my title please explain to me how it isn’t.

kabaal.1832:

Pretty much why i stopped playing my Guardian in tournies. Guard a node the whole match and on top of being mostly bored end up with pitiful scores. Same goes for bunker ele, you really need to make sure you do enough damage to the targets as if you just play CC+damage soaker you end up not even getting the kill points half the time.

Yeah it’s a shame, so many flaws with the mechanics right now. Hopefully this post will get more attention and we can get a change.

Hey for some reason I cannot update my orginal post https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/sPvP-point-system-is-seriously-flawed/first#post361458 This is something I am trying to constantly update but I cannot do so at the current moment for some reason. When I edit in something, and hit edit again, it says “loading” then eventually goes white and nothing appears until I refresh the page and nothing has been edited.

Any help would be greatly appreciated thanks!

Turtleman.5416:

Yeah agree with the points. The numbers and rewards are off and need some attention.

Hmm what would you suggest Turtleman?

Quon.8125:

Asmodean.5820:

Ashanor.5319:

I think the point system is fine other than not rewarding defense. There needs to be bonuses for guarding a point. Zerging is encouraged by map design, not points.

I noticed a new trend lately. I got hunted by 3+ guys across the whole map until they finally got me and killed me. Sure, I annoyed them with dots but that doesn’t explain their behaviour. In my opinion it just shows that people are grinding points by just ignoring objectives (except they can conquer them easily for more points) and going.

Had the same thing happen to me this morning, a group chased me past EVERYTHING, objectives, Svanir, JUST to kill me. Guess I had been lucky & hadn’t been running into the Group Zerg teams but saw a few this morning, just a mass of people going from point-to-point in groups just slaughtering everything. Terrible strategy but it worked twice, believe it or not.

The system definitely needs some work. On the Capricorn map, I always bite the bullet, take one for the team & hold the Ruins to help us win. Sometimes I get decent points depending on how insistent the opposing team is on trying to take it from me (got 7 kills this morning that way), but most times I seal away the victory by holding/retaking it for the entire match & get very little to show for it, which sucks.

I will also ‘suicide’ a point, as in rush it when I know I can’t take it or sit there as they’re coming just to keep them from capping it, won some matches that way, but most don’t, they’ll cap & just all run off to cap another, or let them neutralize it JUST so they can get more points for taking it back. That’s terrible gameplay for this mode, but until they change it, that type of behavior will just continue.

I also agree that upping the points for winning may convince players who just want kills to actually TRY to win the match rather than just camping & ganking the whole time without regard for the score, which I see happen a LOT. Giving the losing team some points for just staying til the end, I think, would cause fewer players to just give up & leave when they see that they can’t win.

Yeah, everyone can play how they want, but they should just have Deathmatches for players who just want to wantonly randomly kill & leave the other modes for those of us who actually give a kitten about victory.

Agreed, if it they really want people just running around kill each other, then they should add a deathmatch.

Asmodean.5820:

Ashanor.5319:

I think the point system is fine other than not rewarding defense. There needs to be bonuses for guarding a point. Zerging is encouraged by map design, not points.

I noticed a new trend lately. I got hunted by 3+ guys across the whole map until they finally got me and killed me. Sure, I annoyed them with dots but that doesn’t explain their behaviour. In my opinion it just shows that people are grinding points by just ignoring objectives (except they can conquer them easily for more points) and going for kills.

The maps and therefore are objective based. And a mechanic which encourages through rewards while punishing defenders (you don’t get points because you don’t conquer and most likely you will be killed because of being outnumbered while you defend a place) who actually play objective oriented is plain bad and ill thought out.

Exactly, I really do not understand what they were thinking. I for one love this game, and love PvP and I will try my hardest to improve it. Thanks for the support.

Revelstoke.8924:

Well written, and I agree.

Also want to add that 25 points for a Chief/Svanir kill is perhaps appropriate in the context that they are important strategic points on that map to kill/obtain however Ive seen’ people run by the henge/mine and ignore it completely at start because theyd rather have 25 points than 10. To your point, there is little incentive to cap a point and stay on it.

Hey sorry Revlstroke I actually addressed this in my reddit post. Like I said I am unable to edit this for some reason now. Anyway the major problem is that the capping process does not speed up with more people, that is why people pass it up. If it almost instant capped because everyone was on it, I feel people would actually run to the point first.

I am sorry to say this guys and gals but I am not able to edit this post for unknown reasons. Anyway for the latest update on the post please refer to the reddit post at the bottom of the original post.

Kalar Meadia.8439:

No kidding.

I’ll hold out, even knowing I’m going to die, on a point, simply to insure that the enemy is focused on me rather than the fact that they’re loosing/lost the two side points, and this is regardless if I’ve built bunker or not.

If I’ve held them off for more than five ticks, then I’ve done my job right, when outnumbered.

That doesn’t reflect well on me point wise, which doesn’t bother me all that much if I get the victory.

Yeah you should be rewarded for your noble sacrifice.

Fantom.9217:

I agree, but I don’t think a huge win bonus will change anything.

For one that ruins glory for the losing side, they’ll just start leaving halfway through, and anyone that gets auto-balanced will be annoyed too.

For another I don’ t think that will cure people of being upset when they sit defending a point the whole game and the guy running around neutralizing and killing gets more glory. Unless it’s something like 5000 for a win and 300 for being a killing machine, which would be absurd.

---

So putting aside win bonus, I completely agree. You need to remove skirmisher, I honestly don’t know what it means. It needs to be a reward for fighting on a neutral point when the enemy is there.

You also need to be rewarded for defense and for sticking on a point while in combat. This is BADLY needed.

kitten the AFK/botter argument, a simple report option can take care of extreme situations. Considering that because of the format of this objective mode being AFK on a point is a good thing, they have no right to complain when people do exactly that.

If you don’t fight back when an enemy shows up then you won’t keep the point very long, that balances other factors.

But because the only game mode is this king of the hill stuff, someone running to a point and standing there is perfect play.

I agree with the win bonus, I just simply wanted to state that in no way shape or form is that making up for the sacrifices that I have made to ensure a win. I would personally make it so you get points while out of combat. I would lower the amount, but until they get the whole bot issue fixed I see why people are afraid. So I’ll compromise.

felivear.1536:

I completely agree. I am also a competitive player with a focus on winning far more than my own points. Often, I am in the middle or lower end of points but what I do helps to ensure the victory.

I do find myself at least questioning the idea of points over win. The fact that the thought even enters my mind is a problem. This game should give a huge reward for wins or, exactly as you stated, give far more rewards for being a team player.

Watching a thief zip all over the map just neutralizing, leaving, killing, rinse/repeat and get getting 300 points is discouraging when I fight on points, keep enemies from capping (not always killing them but making them flee) healing/buffing, but I don’t get the points to show for it.

People will say “But for people like you ‘winning’ is your reward.” This statement may be true, but in most games winning is not only the only reward.

I leave with one final statement that, in this game, is not true at all in SPvP (but should be):
“To the victor go the spoils”

Great Response, I couldn’t have said it better myself. I completely agree, yeah I love to win. In the end I want people to see me and be like he has awesome gear because he wins a lot, not because he kills a lot. “To the victor go the spoils”

Serp.3264:

I think it would just make more sense to give a large bonus for winning a match, large enough to offset any lose of glory by defending. Maybe something along the lines of 200 glory for winning? It is not something that is over the top, but it will make people focus more on the objective as that is where the true points lie.

I actually meant to add a section regarding win bonus, thanks for reminding me I’ll edit it in. Anyway I feel like maybe that would be a good short term fix. However it feels a lot better and a lot more interactive when you see the bonuses constantly popping up on the screen.

Hey guys I cannot edit the original post, please check out the reddit post for all the recent changes. http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/10zyd9/spvp_point_system_is_seriously_flawed/

First off let me tell you a little bit about who I am. I have been playing Guild Wars 1 for 7 years now off and on. I have always loved the PvP and thought it was pretty balanced. I own 40+ Multiplayer games, and have always tried to play them at a competitive level. I love the PvP in Guild wars 2 also, and I’m Glory rank 22 so I have invested some time into it. After all this time I find myself at the start of the match thinking to myself “Do I want to win, or do I want to earn the most points?” They should however be one in the same. So let me first state what problems this causes.

Problems current system causes – First of all it encourages bad or nonstrategic play. It also encourages only builds that are meant to kill, and not support or bunker down on a point. It also causes a zerg mentality, with people running around brainless and getting as many kills as they can and being rewarded for it.

Current Glory Rewards for actions

• Kills earn 5 points without any of the bonuses, when I only get 5 points for a kill it is the most frustrating thing in the world.

• 10 points for capping and for neutralizing. Compared to a kill that usually will earn 15 points the amount for this seems way too low to me. Since Neutralizing is so quick I would keep it the same but double the capping points.

• Defender Kills earn 10 extra points, a total of 15 points. This actually makes sense and rewards people for defending a point.

• Assaulter earns 10 extra points for killing an enemy on their own capture node. This is actually good, once again it encourages people to fight on a node.

• Skirmisher kills earn 10 addition points and a total of 15 points identical to defender/assaulter kills. This bonus however is for being off in the middle of nowhere and getting a kill, not helping cap objectives. It makes no sense at all that this is equal to the defender/assaulter. I wish it didn’t exist but the bonus should be at least half of defender/assaulter. On top off all that, this bonus has always seemed a little random. Sometimes I get it, sometime I don’t.

• Trebuchet and Monster kill, I believe both of these are fine. Granted Trebuchet can rack up a lot of points, but if your team is stupid enough to let them shell you the whole game it is on you guys.

• Win Bonus this was brought to my attention in the forum post that I created. Win bonus seems too small, I have calculated that it is 20% of whatever your final score is. I don’t think win bonus would be much of a problem if you received points from everything that I state below, but the current bonus does not make up for going out of your way to ensure a win at the cost of receiving less points.

What you should be rewarded for that you aren’t

• Neutral Objective Kills – I cannot even begin to imagine why these are not rewarded bonus points. Could they just not think of a witty name for it like “Neutral Fighter” reward. Jokes aside this has to be in the game, and makes no sense why you are not rewarded for fighting for a neutral point is beyond me.

• Defending a point – Not killing someone on a point, but just a certain amount of points lets say for every 10 seconds of just staying on the objective. I would say around 5 points per 10 seconds, but only works while in combat to avoid people who would just sit afk or do nothing to contribute to the team.

• Dying on a point(Martyr) This one is a big one for me when I play any tanky character. Sometimes I am able to hold out long enough and die bravely on a point in order for my team to stop them from capping it. I may have died, but I prevented the other team from earning more than what was given for my death. I think 10 points would be fair for this.

• Interrupting a team capture Meaning by running into the fray and jumping on that node preventing the enemy team from capping it. I feel like this should be rewarded because some people are just so afraid and will stick back. Hopefully this will add some incentive.

• Rewarded for Support Last but certainly not least on my list, you should be rewarded one point every time you heal or buff an ally in any way. One point may seem small but if you are throwing boons and heals everywhere it will add up. However you will only receive points while in combat to avoid exploiting.

All of these numbers are just off the top of my head and may not be balanced, but try to just look at the points that I made. So lets fight for a change, no more winning a game when the other team has double the points. http://i.imgur.com/gy6jL.jpg We should be rewarded for playing well, and doing whatever it takes to win. Let me know if you guys can think of anything else and I will add it to the list. I have posted this same post on reddit if you would like to view it there. http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/10zyd9/spvp_point_system_is_seriously_flawed/

I recently noticed that I didn’t complete the monthly on my main character due to Salvages, and I have been playing a lot of PvP lately and have been salvaging a lot of things. Anyway I was wondering if this is intended or a bug, because it is slightly frustrating that I missed out on the coins for something I did.