(edited by Darklight.5047)
Showing Posts For Darklight.5047:
Ah, I see what you mean by gear progression. Unfortunately, I’m not sure either method would be particularly embraced by GW2.
1) Exclusive looks… well… that tends to draw ire on both sides of the issue. I, for one, really am not particularly enamored with the idea of “exclusive” armor skins (like Account Bound things). I’m really not the slightest bit concerned with how someone got their look, and honestly, there are times where I’d rather just crack open my wallet and pay $10 either for a skin in the gem store, or transferring it to gold and buying it off the trading post rather than spend hours grinding it out.
Call that lazy if you want, I really don’t care.
On top of that, you’d be amazed how varied opinions are on what “looks good.” Horizontal prestige armors like you suggest wouldn’t have any guarantee of hitting the target for even a sizable amount of players, even less if there were “tiers” of progression that they had to jump through to get to the level they want.
It would fall victim to the same failing that instanced raid content does in other MMOs; fewer and fewer people engaged to the point that you’re wasting resources on content that only a handful of players will be interested in.
2) Considering the absolute seething and near violent rage that erupted just by the small increase in stats Ascended gear provides, continuing down that path of vertical progression would almost assuredly kill the game. I know I’d quit.
1) What about sets in the theme of the instance? Have an instance where the ground breaks open under your feet, which you have to dodge, and drop gear with lava effects to just name an example
2) I agree with this. A game which advertises with ‘no gear progression’ may aswell have no gear progression, but this is just not the case.
Again duels are fine, in the mists. There is a mechanic specifically designed for just that. Just not in PvE anywhere.
Maybe I missed it, but afaik there is no option to 1v1 duel people in the mists.
For all the suggestion OP made, seems the game need complete overhaul.
Looks like there are thousands of games are doing it right which GW2 is doing it wrong. So it is obviously that, you should play those games.
I do dearly hope though, that OP will take this criticism to heart, and act upon it.
I’d rather say that GW2 is doing a betterjob at many things that make GW2 GW2. It is, in my opinion, a lot better than other games in many aspects, which is why I’d rather stay with GW2. I’m just trying to say that GW2 is both lacking some easy-to-build, not game-chaning at all features. The other stuff is about improvements of already-existing systems, and a possible design-philosophy for the future. I don’t see how my suggestions would need a massive game-overhaul to be implemented. To state it simply: what I would like to see is:
1) Trade Function
2) Gear Inspectation Function
3) Duel Fuction
4) More Streamlined LFG function
5) Better Market Interface (my suggestion was a very, very small change)After making those points I stated some of my ideas of how ArenaNet could continue their development of the game. That is all.
1) Why risk players being scammed and have to waste more resources to clean up the mess than to simply prevent it?
2) Gear inspection is a must for a game that provide vertical progression, because low end geared player will become a great burden to the team. GW2 is different, high end gear is easy to obtain, full rare gear is as viable as full ascended in 99% pve content. What makes it different is the hand behind keyboard. Most of the players don’t care their pug member geared, as long as they can finish whats they want to finish.
3) Duel function is already there, in the mist, custom area. I am totally against dueling with PvE gear and build. GW2 have reduced a lot of class balance issue by removing sub class. Yet we still got tons of balancing issues complain while a huge amount of these complains are under leveled players in PvE circumstances. These complains mostly involved with wrong gear spec or lack of understanding to their class. When these kind of gear and level issues are involved in 1 vs 1 (where the game is not balanced around 1 vs 1), we can foresee a lot more complain about class balance than now. Why should Anet do something to increase the balancing difficulty rather than to eliminate them? Not to mention it is impossible to make balancing decisions when over 80% of complains are player issues.
1) Though I think that point sucks, someone already convinced me of it being a bad idea to have one-on-one trading.
2) Then what is the problem? Isn’t it nice to know what kind of gear someone has when you see him/her walking with awesome-looking gear?
3) I was talking about non-competitive, or at least completely unranked dueling. Really simple, to do against friends. I don’t think such a thing would lead to more balancing problems.
1) Dueling and the reasons for NOT having them are covered in multiple threads, with new ones popping up every other week. As stated, the very concept of the game doesn’t allow for it. Also it would create a very toxic and annoying atmosphere that no one wants. If you want to duel, go to the mists.
2) No. The TP is not only secure and fast, but is a MAJOR gold sink which help tremendously in keeping the economy in check. As far as scamming, there will be complaints, and Anet will have to devote resources to deal with each one. Even if its just to reply with a general, “sorry not our problem” lette. (and before anyone starts on the economy is broken, go read John Smiths, the games economist, comments on the matter.)
3) An inspect will just be another reason for elitists to feel more superior. It won’t serve any purpose other than that. If someone is curious they can ask you to link it it chat. There literally is no good thing that can come out of having gear inspection. Period.
4) gear progression. That would imply a very heavy grind. This game is about horizontal progression. Do you remember the outrage over ascended? It was too much of a grind, it was vertical progression, it was going to ruin the game etc. But the game would require a complete over haul. Everything, with the exception of high level fractals, can be done with exotic level armor. There is no need for a gear grind/gear progression. It doesnt fit into how this game is built.
1) Please describe said atmosphere
2) I guess I’ll have to agree with that.
3) Someone convinced me of that, as did you.
4) I feel this is relevant:
“A lot of people seem to fear that gear progression brings the world-of-warcraft-model of having to get gear with better stats all the time. But image the WoW with gear that stays mostly the same as far as stats go: you get gear that shows your ingame achievements through looks, while not requiring others to do it to because otherwise they can’t complete all the content.”
I’m talking about getting more and more prestigious gear. Whether that entails stat-increase is for the mods to decide (though it seems like they have decided pro-stat-increase)
Dueling? I’m OK with it with restrictions on where it can take place (not in cities except for specific arenas) and with a default option of Accept Duel Requests Off (those wanting the feature should have to make the effort to enable it, those who don’t want to should not have to act).
1 v 1 trading? Don’t care. I also don’t expect to ever see it because the biggest gold sink in game is TP fees, and allowing players to bypass said fees is not a good idea.
Gear inspect? What I’m wearing is not your business. I’m fine if you want to inspect the gear of those who join your party, but ping works fine for that.
Gear progression? We were promised at one point that, “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game.” That’s already gone by the wayside, but so far ANet has avoided an actual treadmill. Any additional statistical gear progression would be extremely unwelcome to me. As to cosmetics? I agree there should be more skins gated by hard content than is currently the case. Making those look “progressively better” rated on difficulty is not possible, though. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. ANet could make what they perceive to be “really cool looks” but some people are going to hate them. Just look at the reactions to gem store skins — unless you think ANet made them look bad (in some peoples’ eyes) so they wouldn’t buy them.
I mostly agree with what you stated there. I would just like to emphasize though, that with progression I mean prestige progression: harder tasks getting added on a regular basis with new loot to show off. Whether this has better stats is something I don’t care about but is certainly an option, whether the looks are better is indeed something subjective, but it shouldn’t be hard to make something that’s themed the same way as the instance you obtained it in, thereby giving visual appeal not so much in ‘coolness’ off the looks, but in ‘coolness’ of having gear that visually represents your achievements in the game. We already have this, just not on a regular basis.
A lot of people seem to fear that gear progression brings the world-of-warcraft-model of having to get gear with better stats all the time. But image the WoW with gear that stays mostly the same as far as stats go: you get gear that shows your ingame achievements through looks, while not requiring others to do it to because otherwise they can’t complete all the content.
I took exception to your “agreed on” statement, because the simple fact is no, those things are NOT agreed upon. Gear inspection (and the elitism that inevitably comes with it), would start a RIOT on these forums. Open world dueling is nearly as reviled (I for one find it more of a nuisance than something enjoyable). At the very best, that idea is 50/50 in support.
There are large portions of the community that look at your suggestions, and would HATE them. For example, your gear treadmill can take a hike. I came to this game BECAUSE it promised no gear treadmill, and I was not particularly happy when they went back on that initial philosophy with Ascended gear.
I guess I may have been a little too enthousiastic to immediatly claim the vote of the majority, that’s a mistake on my part.
I do not see the problem with a duel function though. If you can just turn it off for yourself (can’t challenge or be challenged) and would only see other people do it now and then, would you really care about that? I guess I’m asking whether you have a fundamental disagreement with the concept of dueling, or you fear that it would bring problems with it like massive spamming.
When it comes to gear progression, I may have stated it wrongly.
I do not mean to say that we absolutely need gear progression. We could just accept that there is an ultimate gearset that people will aquire in time (the ones available before all the special, more grindy gear), after which the challenge of gear is over and people can focus on the other aspects of the game.
However, I do say that when gear progression is introduced, as it somewhat is with just a small amount of gear, it needs to be accepted and acted upon. My suggestion here is that we may aswell get even harder dungeons with even more prestigious gear on a constant basis, rather than inventing new currencies, names, and vendors all the time.
That is only if gear progression is being ran with of course, but it seems that we somewhat need it, at least to a lesser extend.
Sounds like a refugee from another game. This game probably isn’t for you.
I played quite a lot of other games, dunno if I’m a refugee though. I don’t really know why you think this game isn’t for me. I like most things about it, but I don’t think you’d like to read 5+ posts about how awesome this game is. If you do, I will start working on it.
- Dueling
- One-On-One Trade
- Gear Inspection- This game is about coming together and working as a team, a unified body to rise up and destroy our common enemy: the Elder Dragons. Charr and humans, who have been at war for hundreds of years are even at peace right now. Duels just don’t fit into PvE. Hence why there is PvP. You can easily go into the Mists and PvP duel in an empty room or go into WvW and duel another person by using /bow.
- Nobody wants to stand around for hours spamming S>ETERNITY 5K OR BEST OFFER. Seriously, we get on the game to play, not to barter. Not only is it annoying having to stand there and spam your clever message to get anyone interested, but it’s annoying trying to find anything with the ridiculous amounts of spam other users are creating trying to sell their wares as well. Nobody can read the chat when it’s moving at 100mph full of S>OMNOMBERRY PIES or B>FROSTFANG. The trading post gets rid of this altogether. There is no scamming through the trading post, and there is no spamming through the trading post. Trading post is better.
- Why do we even need gear inspection? It’s very obvious someone sucks when you are scraping their butt off the floor every 2 minutes. Even a character with godly armor and weapons on can still be an awful player.
I don’t see how testing your skill is against the idea of working together. You even duel a lot of NPCs with the reason being to test your skill often enough.
Your criticism of one-on-one trading is a very good point indeed, I guess you are right about that.
Inspection is not really needed, it’s just nice to know where someone gets their armor. I’d like to emphasize that I don’t see inspection as a dire need, but as a convinience.
For all the suggestion OP made, seems the game need complete overhaul.
Looks like there are thousands of games are doing it right which GW2 is doing it wrong. So it is obviously that, you should play those games.
I do dearly hope though, that OP will take this criticism to heart, and act upon it.
I’d rather say that GW2 is doing a betterjob at many things that make GW2 GW2. It is, in my opinion, a lot better than other games in many aspects, which is why I’d rather stay with GW2. I’m just trying to say that GW2 is both lacking some easy-to-build, not game-chaning at all features. The other stuff is about improvements of already-existing systems, and a possible design-philosophy for the future. I don’t see how my suggestions would need a massive game-overhaul to be implemented. To state it simply: what I would like to see is:
1) Trade Function
2) Gear Inspectation Function
3) Duel Fuction
4) More Streamlined LFG function
5) Better Market Interface (my suggestion was a very, very small change)
After making those points I stated some of my ideas of how ArenaNet could continue their development of the game. That is all.
1) The entire point of the open world in GW2 is cooperation, not PvP. There are Arenas in the Mists that allow you the dueling you claim you want.
2) One on one trading was the bane of GW1 with Arena.net having to deal with constant complaints of scams. They washed their hands of it. We are why we can’t have nice things.
3) And there’s just as loud of a frenzy from people who can’t stand achievement points being used as a gauge of players. They’ll be even more kittened off by gear-related elitism. No thank you.
4) Gear progression is an inane, empty, stupid treadmill to keep you playing. I don’t want it in the slightest. It can stay away from this game, thank you.
You ask for those things and never get them BECAUSE “everyone” DOESN’T want them. In fact, I’d wager not even a significant minority want any given three of those things.
1) I don’t see how seeing who’s better (for fun, against a friend for example) is something you want to do in a 5v5. Dueling can be a lot of fun, and there’s no drawback.
2) This is just bad policy. They can easily ignore it. People can learn from their mistakes and learn not to be scammed via trading, without having big brother babysit them. ArenaNet could just as easily have said that it won’t deal with crybabies who want ArenaNet to reverse the effects of their stupidity. Instead, they removed a nice feature.
3) I don’t really know what to say about this. It is bad to give people the option to show off their achievements because others may get jealous?
4) Everything you do within this game is inane and empty. I also don’t see the problem with people investing a lot of time while others don’t. We see that for many people such a system is already what keeps them playing. It’s how MMORPGs work. If you think getting progressively nicer-looking gear is stupid, you don’t have to participate in it. You can just laugh about the idiots that do.
I’m not really talking about how the searching fuction works, or the controls you use to sell and/or buy, but the way we view existing orders. If it fits the taste we could have the option of a simple interface, which shows just highest and lowest unless you ask for more, while having the system described for those who want it (basically everyone who does any trading beyond grabbing the lowest sell- and the highest buy-orders now and then.
Gear Progression
Gear Progression is a very easy concept:
-Make gear progressively better, better-looking, or harder to obtain (add more prestige)
-Make obtainment of said gear harder the better it is
Instead, ArenaNet seems to wish to ignore this, and have only visual progression, while visually-superior and -inferior gear should somewhat share stats.
However, they still implement gear now-and-then in a way that ignores this design-philosohpy completely.
Just embrace it: Progression is a part of MMORPGs, either via prestige or stats. To mix up difficulty-of-achieving, stats, and visual appeal, is not a great idea (Once you have stat progression, you cannot create harder content rewarding lesser stats but superior visuals). So once you start with the stat progression, you have to stick with it.
Also, there’s no need to invent new currencies all the time (though it is not that bad at this point). It is also a possibility to have better gear drop instead of having you buy it, so shared currencies still don’t allow you to get hard-content grade rewards with easy content. Like, you know, most MMORPGs…
Please bear in mind I’m not taking about progression WoW-style, where you have to keep grinding gear to be able to grind better gear to be able to grind better gear etc.
Rather, new instancereleases featuring gear in the theme of the instance, while getting harder continuously, is a way that one can have gear progression without the eternal grind being required of players.
Of course this is a lot trickier than I describe it, but when a design-philosophy fails: instead of trying to salvage every bit of it you can just change it. (From the current philosophy to either prestige/visual-appeal/stat progression philosophy, or a combination. Their previous acts show two things about ArenaNet: They have to implement certain aspects of it because their current philosophy fails as it seems, but they still don’t want to change. In some sense: they change while resisting it at the same time)
The Store
Seriously. Come on. The abililty to buy armor-skins in a game that is supposed to be about visual-progresision when it comes to armor, is just totally insane. Armor obtained this way offers no prestige and it’s a kick in the face of people who want to work for good armor. This hitting two targets at once, friendly-fire mode.
That is mere opinion, which people can differ quite a lot on.
What is also mere opinion, but which I think most people don’t think differ a lot on, is that it’s a good idea to not mix-up kinds of stuff you get by completing hard content or spending a lot of time with stuff you buy with real-life money. That’s an easy principle. Why? Because prestigious armor loses prestige when supposedly-prestigious amor can just be bought.
Other than that, I really like this game. It’s awesome, there’s lots to do, lots to explore, lots of content to complete. But I see some basic mistakes being made.
This post will probably have no impact at all, but one can always hope.
Please discuss my ideas if you have the time.
(edited by Darklight.5047)
Hello dear dudes and dudettes,
Having observed this game and other MMORPGs for quite a while, some things became apparent to me, and I’m sure they became apparent to most of you aswell. Most of the point that I’m about to make are points that have had their own threads often enough, showing the fact that everyone knows about most of these things.
Dueling
A simple feature where two people agree to fight, and they start a battle to either 1hp, or death with immediate revival. Advanced options like max range to flee from starting point and maximum duration of battle can be added as an extra.
Why this isn’t there already is totally beyond me. How can the company that made this game, with all it’s awesome aspects, it’s awesome graphics engine, it’s very-well working ‘physics’ engine, not create a simple dueling function. They are either incompetent or unwilling, and as incompetence is no excuse for ArenaNet. Why don’t they want to create a dueling function? What’s so hard about it? There’s seriously no reason to not allow it, besides spamming, which can be easily countered by offering a ’don’t allow duel invites (with an optional ‘from this person’) again’ checkbox on duel invitations. It’s not that hard to develop.
Also, there are enough times in the game that you will fight a friendly NPC for ‘training’ reasons, so I don’t really get the lore-problem. Also, the chance of spamming is quite minimal. In many games I’ve played duel invites aren’t spammed, and there is no text-spam with it either.
LFG
Talking about rushed feature, LFG seems like it is indeed a very rushed feature, though we know better than to think that’s actually the case.
Here’s how an LFG tool should work in my opinion, which I’ll defend later:
You check the checkboxes on a list of instances, you click search, and it searches for people who want to do the same, completely at random, possibly favoring parties with no duplicate classes unless a premade-party queued as a whole.
Compare this then, to our current LFG tool. In the current LFG tool you don’t just enter a queue, you look through a list of parties with their message: “Need one more of this class, or else gtfo”.
This system takes a lot more time to go through, though party-quality seems rarily to be improved upon.
The only possible objection that could be raised is the following: Special needs can’t be catered too.
In that case, just keep the old tool and have a new one with it. Special stuff can still be done, while people who just want their too-small party, or just themselves as an individual, to join a group to run instances with, can actually do so in a nice, streamlined manner. Some possible objections could be:
But herr-derr, this teleporting to dungeon (that will most probably accompany this new LFG tool) will break immersion.
In that case just require people to have the waypoint at the entrance before they can queue up, and you basically have the same breaking of immersion you have with waypoints in general.
As far as LFG goes, in my opinion only one true objection can be made: the social ascpect. And you know what? I wouldn’t even be that much against the removal of LFG. However, I think we can agree that we should have a quality tool if any at all. Not this disgrace to game-designers worldwide.
The (Player Driven) Market
The market isn’t all that bad. However, it could easily be improved upon. If we look at the game wich has an awesome concept of a player market, EVE Online, we see a system that at it’s core is very much the same. The ease of using it though, is much worse in GW2. For those who never played EVE, I’ll offer a screenshot:
I want to focus the attention to the right side of the screen. The big list. What’s so hard about getting some GW2 artstyle to this and get in the game? It would offer a much clearer view of what the buy- and sell-orders are.
(edited by Darklight.5047)