Guild Wars 2

Corian.4068:

Darlantan.5638:

The problem is it has endgame whether they want to coin it or not. The game doesn’t have very many different things or paths to do. It’s basically level to 80, level the worthless crafting system to max, grind some dungeons perhaps and explore. All of which can be done relatively quickly. After that you’re stuck with two options WvW or work on a legendary.

But the problem is you cannot set your own adventure in this game the paths are literally chosen and once you hit 80 there really isn’t a drive to continue playing, especially if you’re not interesting in a legendary or WvW. GW2 is essentially a theme-park MMO which means it has end game because you’re limited to the things you can do upon turning 80.

You don’t want “endgame”, you want progression. Which, don’t get me wrong, is a perfectly valid thing to want, but even back to GW1 the game was never about increasing your power.

The focus has always been on the gameplay. Which is precisely why I want Arenanet to publicly dismiss the term “endgame”, so that people stop coming to this game expecting gear ladders to climb.

Now don’t get me wrong. I’m not going to pretend anyone with a business is going to say, “hey, your idea of turning a bunch of customers away is GREAT!”, but there has to be a way to get across to generic_subscription_MMO_addict_01 that this game is actually about the game, and not about making one’s numbers higher on a dps chart. There has to be a way to change their perception and their expectations, instead of the “we’re looking into that and we appreciate your feedback” spiel that’s going to happen forever if nothing does change.

Actually I don’t even want progression. I just want my character to have an impact on the world and be useful in others. Such as in the original Ultima Online my character with 100 Blacksmithing/Carpenter and others stats were useful to other characters. I could make and sell stuff for trade can’t do that in this game as the production of items cost more than the materials or the same.

Not to mention in UO it wasn’t just about grinding levels, grinding a quest or following the game’s “set” path. It was about me doing what I wanting to do and having usefulness with it and just not character usefulness but the game world included. In GW2 my character is completely detached from the world what I do virtually has NO IMPACT in the game world or even for my character. I am not asking for it to be stronger I am asking for it to have some type of RP element to where my character acutally matters in the game. Whether it can be a very successful tradesment, a treasure hunter, a mercenary for hire(pvp), or even just glorified riches of owning a house and decorating it to however I wish.

Now… Do you understand as to what I am speaking of? Because I am not talking about progression, I hate continuous gear/skill progression. In fact that’s the only thing I even like about this game. But everything else about it is no different from WoW or any other theme park MMO. Which is why I haven’t’ signed on for over 2 weeks and mostly likely won’t even bother with the Nov. update either.

Greenbuddhas.4508:

Metalripper.5406:

What endgame?

Ohh, you mean playing Dress-up with your pixels?

Yeah, I tried to get into it, I couldn’t.

why are you playing an mmo then? pretty sure every mmo in existence has the same basic formula

That’s where you’re kind of wrong. MMO’s such as Original UO and perhaps EvE were using a different formula than MMOs such as this or even WoW.

In UO and EvE you set your own adventure you basically do whatever you wish, in fact what you did/do could certainly have a impact in the game world. Also you’re not tied to grinding to keep up with everyone else (which is something this game does fairly good at, I think EvE is a little different now in this aspect though).

But in Games such as WoW, SWTOR, or even GW2 you’re limited on the things you do. You character has virtually no impact on the game world you really don’t even interact with the world and other players much at all. Only time you act upon others is when you’re trying to defeat a difficult boss or WvW but even them communication is limited as it usually a few people such as leaders and officers communicating with everyone else.

So there are different MMO forumlas it’s just that today’s gamers are mainly only familiar with one thanks to the WoW or even Diablo boom. Yes I know Diablo isn’t an MMO but the WoW/GW2 and Diablo Formula are very very similar as well. Basically Grind the story, grind for gear and pvp when/if you can.

Newsin.1945:

Mario.6309:

Fernling.1729:

I am seriously lost and hoping someone might be able to help. This isn’t a hate thread, so please don’t make it as such.
I just can’t get myself to log in anymore. I am still around in hopes that something happens and I can start enjoying the game. I haven’t had this kind of issue with even some of the previous “fail” mmos. I can still to this day casually log into Eve, WoW, DCUO, Runescape, Rift, GW1 and even play through the Mass Effect series again, which I have beaten about 10 times now. For some reason I just can’t get myself to log into GW2. It feels like I such a chore to do anything in the game. I guess I don’t know what’s going on with it, but maybe the game is not for me?

Crafting—Was never a fan, so no surprise here.

Story(lore)—Not a fan at all. Not a roleplayer or anything, a bit too corny for me.

Jumping Puzzles—This to me is a complete joke in terms of “content”, like not even fun at all after the very first one I completed.

Dynamic Events—My biggest disappointment lies here. I would rather have every dynamic event replaced with heart quests, seriously. They take literally zero skill, so easy they can be auto-attacked through without ever dying. Very boring and repetitive imo/

Hearts—I actually like these, easily my favorite content in the game.

Dungeons—Biggest mess ever. There isn’t any strategy involved. Just feels like a big spam fest. I can’t get myself to do another one of these. I have completed just about every explorer mode dungeon without any issues.

Exploring—Nope, not for me. I never understood this.

Just throwing out my opinion on some of the things that the game offers in hopes that someone might have some ideas for me.

Like I said, I really want to like the game. I loved GW1 and just expected much more from the team at Arenanet. Is it even the same team?

I’ve come to something of a similar conclusion.

Fact is, GW2 feels like a huge, grind-y, sandbox-y mess. Most of the content, dungeons especially, feel very shallow and unchallenging for an organized group. WvWvW is supposed to be other “endgame” aside from explorables, but that also feels shallow and got old quickly(plus all the rendering issues). sPvP, same deal.

I’ve come to believe that since the game is supposed to be played for “fun” and be “accessible,” it’s more catered for casual play and messing around. It feels like a sandbox game. Kill this if you want to. Go explore that if you want to. Chase those “achievements” that are nothing but a grind. Grind for that one skin you really want. But there’s rarely an actual feeling of being challenged or making progression. As a result, maybe this game isn’t for people like you and me. But at least I can return to it every once in awhile since there’s no sub fee.

lol, there is nothing sandbox about this game…. at all.

My thoughts exactly. There’s really nothing sandbox about this game. Clearly themepark all the way so boredom after hitting 80 should be expected.

Tolmos.8395:

Everyone is in such a hurry… how many of you have played MMOs from release? World of Warcraft… Rift… neither of these had large end games when they first released, and yet now their endgames are huge.

Game developers cannot be held accountable for players who decide to rush a game to the end. It is physically impossible to keep those types of players constantly amused. I am about to reach 500 hours on my account’s /age and I STILL have things to do. A lot of things. I’ve taken my time, enjoyed myself, etc. I play a LOT, so I’ve logged those 500 hours quickly. Someone who plays in a similar method but logs less time? They’ll be at this for a year+. THAT is the type of player that MMO devs cater to.

Every MMO sees these types of post. Someone who rushes to the very end as quickly as possible, completes everything, and then is surprised when there are consequences to those actions. And in the end? I’m sorry to say, but they will get no sympathy from anyone except those in the same boat. The rest of us will continue enjoying the mounds of content ahead of us for many more hours to come, until the endgame content is released. And even then, we probably won’t be finished with what we’re doing now.

I am sorry but there is no “rush” to end game at this point. After 2 months of release there really hasn’t been much implemented and 2 months given the pace of leveling (which is fairly quick even for casual standards). On top of that there just isn’t much to do beside WvW and legendary. I am not counting the other stuff because they can be done fairly quickly.

Naoko.7096:

Every mmorpg should have a solid end-game.
Imo, this game succeeded well as a MMO but not mmorpg.

GW2 is like having an action-game character in MMO setting.
Everything is player skills and there’s no growth in your character.

If I were to give a personal rating,
GW2 as a mmo: 9/10
GW2 as a mmorpg: 3.5/10

The reason why I prefer RPG than any other games ever since I was a child are for the same reason. I avoid console games like Tomb Raider, Ninja Gaiden and any games of those genres. We can see GW2’s nature is very unlike rpg. The elements of jumping quests, non-progression characters, 100% player skills and cosmetic-based rewards.

In regards to GW2’s “end-game”, some people said it starts at “level 1” but it’s obvious the game really ends after Zhaitan. It felt like I finished a console game. Console rpgs can do that. But, MMOrpgs shouldn’t let players feel like they finished a console game.

WvWvW being an end-game is meaningless. Level 1 character can join WvWvW and have equal stand with anyone who reached level cap. There’s no goal nor actual benefits, glory and rewards. We only add points to the server’s name and it gets reset the following week. Your enemies are all in red/blue/green and nothing to feel special or glorified personally. That’s all about it.

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Cosmetic-based gears as rewards are quite weak for end-game. It’s because every MMORPG has those as secondary rewards. Therefore, players who have tasted it as secondary will feel very reluctant to chase after cosmetic gears.

Gw2 cosmetic gear end-game:
You bought a branded handbag, watch that costs thousands of dollars. You feel proud bringing it to shopping centres with your friends. It’s because it signifies that you work hard and save that amount to buy that branded bag. It makes you feel that if you wear something where many people can’t buy, you stand higher than other humans. You think others will admire and respect you for wearing branded stuffs.
- If you perceived this way in reality, then this end-game will appeals to you.

For some of us, it doesn’t appeals us effectively. It’s because we see all bags and watches are the same. They have the same function and quality. I would rather buy a $50 bag than $5000 “branded” bag. Sometimes, I see those $50 bag looks nicer than any branded bags. I rather wear something I personally like than a branded bag which doesn’t appeals me at all. Prices doesn’t matter. Therefore, I see everyone who wore those overly expensive stuffs the same as anyone else in the street.
- If you perceived this way in reality, then this end-game will never appeals to you.

This is why I tried to emphasize that cosmetic gears makes a very weak end-game.
There should be more than just chasing cosmectic gears. It does not have to be gear stats progression. If they removed gear stats progression, they should fill that hole with something with equavalent value. There few which people can think of that has some actual progression to your characters.

I certainly agree with this. GW2 does feel like an MMO than an MMORPG because I don’t feel as if my character actually progresses and after hitting 80 or doing the story there really isn’t much to do. I just can’t set my own adventure or do things differently among different characters and other players.

Lavexis.5360:

this game needs gvg, duels and ranking system.. i create a thread earlier to discuss about how gvg and duels going to effect the game if its implemented, but i guess no one interested ;P

I believe Spvp pretty much covers most of this. But even if/when you implement these features you’ll still stuck with the “End Game” problem. As those activities are not something that a lot of masses tend to do repeatedly often and for a long time. And part of the reason why is because those functions have no connections to their characters and the world of Tyria.

Corian.4068:

Honestly, I want the developers to straight-up throw the term “endgame” out on its butt.

Same way they did with the trinity. Guild Wars 2 doesn’t have an endgame. And pretending it ever will just creates confusion as to what GW2 is.

Instead what it has is simply “game”. No end. You get to experience the full extent of the gameplay from the beginning (which they do say), and that’s the same game you play at the level cap as the developers continue to give you new things to experience (which I don’t think they do a good enough job of explaining).

The idea of changing playstyle once at the level cap (i.e. raiding) is a restrictive, elitist, absurd, and as a result of this game, obsolete, notion. And the crazy thing is, it’s not even fun. Who likes clearing trash mobs for two hours and then glass-chewing on a boss that ultimately has to be overpowered by a gear advantage rather than by player skill?

GW2 has both covered. It has the giant epic boss fights with the big numbers, and it also has the skill-intensive boss fights for parties. And these are both part of the game. Not endgame, just the game. So they need to take the term “endgame” and really just completely stomp it out.

The problem is it has endgame whether they want to coin it or not. The game doesn’t have very many different things or paths to do. It’s basically level to 80, level the worthless crafting system to max, grind some dungeons perhaps and explore. All of which can be done relatively quickly. After that you’re stuck with two options WvW or work on a legendary.

But the problem is you cannot set your own adventure in this game the paths are literally chosen and once you hit 80 there really isn’t a drive to continue playing, especially if you’re not interesting in a legendary or WvW. GW2 is essentially a theme-park MMO which means it has end game because you’re limited to the things you can do upon turning 80.

Dunann.5761:

GW2 isn’t the typical MMO and that’s what makes it different from what we had to endure for the past 7 years. Clones. An army of clones, sometimes pushing it to a simple skin over the piece they came from (the game that should not be named).

It is not perfect, it is sometimes disappointing, but all in all, I like its lore, its pros and cons and I have a good time with my friends on it. That’s what matters, to me at least.

The day GW2 starts clonifying (does that word even exist?)… I’ll stop playing it like I’ve stopped playing the other one. So please guys, stop asking for more of what you have been used to during the last decade.

Change is never a bad thing! This game is fresh new and has a good quality level for a fresh MMO. Yeah, it’s full of bugs, but honestly, they ALL are. Let’s give ANet a chance to show us what they are made of !

GW2 is it clone. The only thing they didn’t take from the other clones was tiered gear progression and holy trinity but everything else is the same. You’re still farming and grinding to progress as you need gold for pretty much everything (travel, repairs, consumables, and even gear).

Don’t get it wrong, GW2 is still a theme park MMO which means the grind and endgame lies within the simple standards of all other theme park mmos. And the choices of things to do in this game aren’t many.

I don’t think the problem stems from loot I think the problem stems from the fact that there isn’t much else to do but to grind for loot.

Don’t try to argue with all the map completions and one-sided WvW battles either as things to do.

It’s fairly boring. Like Miracle.4216 said I’ve been waiting since UO for a big AAA company to make a sandbox MMO. Enough of this theme-park crap.

AlietteFaye.7316:

Darlantan.5638:

I sort of agree with the OP. There’s just nothing else that keeps me hooked once I
get the dye/look/stats that I want. I really can’t go out and set my own adventure,
as in owning a store, decorating a house, fishing, crafting (useful monetary crafting).

Once I hit 80 and get full exotics with the look I want, there are no other goals for
me. I am not a WvW person as it’s mainly about zergs anyway. I don’t mind doing
dungeons and sPvP but I need more than just that. They need to implement
another pillar that doesn’t just involve in killing.

Have you gone throughout the entire world and explored 100% of the maps? Have you actually explored through everything the maps have to offer? There are LOADS of secrets scattered about. Have you done every jump puzzle?

Just a few things that you can do without killing anything. I agree that there isn’t much else to do to progress characters past leveling and exploring, though.

Not my type of adventure mate. I am sitting on 2 80’s one with 60% map completion other with 40%. If I wanted I could get 100% in one of them by the end of the week. Then what?

Your missing my point. The point is there is no replay ability. I could do all the stuff you listed but it all has an end and they don’t allow me to set my own adventure that will hold my attention over and over again.

I sort of agree with the OP. There’s just nothing else that keeps me hooked once I
get the dye/look/stats that I want. I really can’t go out and set my own adventure,
as in owning a store, decorating a house, fishing, crafting (useful monetary crafting).

Once I hit 80 and get full exotics with the look I want, there are no other goals for
me. I am not a WvW person as it’s mainly about zergs anyway. I don’t mind doing
dungeons and sPvP but I need more than just that. They need to implement
another pillar that doesn’t just involve in killing.