They could call it whatever they want as long as it’s Useful, fun to play and brings something new the table for guardian that’s all that really matters tbh.
Tbh, it’s not overlooked because its weak, its overlooked because of the traits that it contends with. Infact outside of replacing it with a trait that’s useful for pve nothing will ever contend with absolute resolution especially in pvp/wvw where conditions are so prevalent. Moving it to a different trait line would make it a viable option but then you’re just putting another trait in its place to forever go unused because one of the other options in the trait line is so strong.
Maybe you should say what you are looking to do…
In that build of yours, zerging you’re not really helpful in a zerg v zerg fight… No real stability at all.
Solo’ing or small group fighting maybe, but even then you lack range and healing ability beyond the signets for healing and elite skill. I wouldn’t try that build myself, for other weapons and skills help your survivability and the survivability of fellow roamers too.
He’s trying to be funny. This isn’t actually a serious post.
Guardians is in the best spot IMO among all the classes. At least from a wvw perspective core guard it still a strong build, dragonhunter can also exchange the core guard a little. You have burn guard also. I just tried firebrand and honestly i think it will be very requested for wvw, so much support and boons, with staff it will probably be among the new meta, loved it. So guard is in a good spot, all 3 are usefull, core, DH and firebrand seem liek will have its place.
Remove Stand Your Ground then come tell me about that good spot.
Also consider there’s a game outside of wvw.
Guardian is fairly strong in sPvP, PvE and WvW. In addition, it is one of the few classes where core builds actually work somewhere.
Fire Brand though is a different story.
More than half of the base profession see use in some game mode, so not that few.
Yes, but how many classes capable of doing 35K damage? How many classes have none elite builds viable for anything? How many classes have multiple top tier builds in sPvP and WvW?
The only other class that is this versatile is elementalist.
Guardian
Base class: Used in wvw
Pve: Top tier power build (as of last patch, much weaker before that), no build* or role variety
Pvp: Usable, but definitely not a top class
Wvw: strong support build, condi build pretty much obsolete with staff nerf, mediocre roamer
(* as in power vs condi, swapping a few traitlines around, but keeping the weapons, skills, rotations and general capability of the class the same is not build variety for me)Warrior
Base class: Not really used
Pve: Top tier damage build, meta PS build at 2 in every squad
Pvp: was weakened after the last nerfs, I don’t know how this patch affected it, let’s say equal to Guardian
Wvw: heavy use in zergs, strong roamerRevenant
Base class: Used in pve
Pve: Condi dps (not truly top tier, but better than pre-patch Dh), healer/support build used primarily in w4
Pvp: about equal to Guardian
Wvw: heavy use in zergs, good roamerRanger
Base class: Used in pve
Pve: strong condi build (used to be top tier, was nerfed with this patch), meta support build at 2 in every squad
Pvp: Top tier class
Wvw: Not used in zergs, strong roamerEngineer
Base class: All over pve
Pve: Top tier condi build, good power dps build
Pvp: Top tier class
Wvw: Not used in zergs, strong roamerThief
Base class: Used in pve
Pve: top tier condi build, strong power builds (staff DD and D/D thief)
Pvp: Top tier class
Wvw: Not used in zergs, probably the best roamerElementalist
Base class: Technically inferior to Tempest, but it can be used as dps in pve and is better than what DH used to be before the patch
Pve: Top tier condi and power builds
Pvp: Probably not top tier, Iet’s say equal to Guardian
Wvw: Heavy use in zergs, good roamerSo, it seems to be the above classes are at an equal standing in a spread of different parameters. That’s 7 out of 9. All have strong dps builds, but guardian has no role variety in pve, ranger engineer and thief don’t see zerg play but can roam, revenant has 2 good builds in pve but not truly meta, and warrior doesn’t use its base class. Let’s say ele doesn’t use the base class either, but that’s only because it loses to its own spec, not other classes. So everyone has a weak point.
So, Guardian is not in any unique spot. The thing with the “good spot” meme is that people use it every time someone asks a change or buff for guardian to shut them down. Other classes of similar and in certain areas stronger power level get buffs all the time, and while guardian did get buffs recently, it has never been to the point of ranger or tempest, that got an entire new build.
You also set the parameter for top tier dps, which for me personally is of less important and would rather have a druid/chrono tier support build than do 35k.
In WvW Ranger, Engi and Thief while not used much by pug groups are actually really strong with certain builds. Druid is especially strong in a commander party combined with a mesmer to help with pinsnipe and just as a healer in general. Warriors are going to most likely see a decline amongst most organised groups until pof drops, they still do some good damage but the nerfs to their sustain hit them pretty hard. Would honestly prefer to take engis over warriors until pof.
Years ago, a list like this would be relevant, but now the experienced players have pooled into 1-3 guilds and that pool will probably become smaller with time.
Atm, imo, the best guilds are kek or borp and then when those guilds break apart, it’ll be whichever guild those same players have gone into. It used to be a huge list and a very spread out list when this game was actually alive, but at this point it’s the same names under a different guild.
Maybe those guilds will continue to stockpile the more experienced players and run 25 – 30 deep gvg veterans. Why not? You can’t fault people for playing with their friends. Everyone likes steamrolling. ..Maybe they’ll break apart into smaller guilds and try to train new people… who knows, but I don’t see the competitive scene reviving itself anytime soon. Not the way things are going, and it’s pretty hard to pick up pugs and try to build a core with them. Combine that with how badly everyone memes on guilds trying to build… not many make it.
Also, the “rest” of our guilds all have footage of us dumpstering each other at one point in time. It’s pretty hard to tell at this point who is the better guild. Maybe over the course of the year certain guilds happened to come out on top more often than not? Everyone here has had a kitten day or two. I’m not sure what the litmus test is, but if this is a purely open field guide then I know for a fact I’ve killed almost everyone on this list at one point or another and have been killed by most at least once. It’s pretty much impossible to get an objective view at this point.
All that being said, VII has always been fun fights. As have the rest of you. All we can really do now is go down with the ship as we get 1 new thing added to WvW every 4-6 months in the hopes that we all stay interested enough to keep playing.
TLDR: Same kitten different day.
jul… xxx Julian xxx, you got kicked 5 months ago. let it go.
Hey, I’m the leader of BoRP. I think you have a very unclear view of what kind of guild we are, what we’ve done, and who we are. In our roster we have about six people out of 28 that anybody would consider ‘old GvG veterans.’ Almost all of us are competitively-minded players from different parts of the game that came together with a positive attitude and a willingness to improve. We’ve trained from scratch about 90% of our current roster and continue to accept players from every part of the game that have a decent mechanical level and a good attitude. One of the best players in our guild came from TORK.
A competitive game mode needs people at a high level and people at a mid level. A lot of people have this misconception that every top guild needs to disband for there to be a viable scene; but the truth is that if that happens then there’s nobody to drive progression. The GvGs and open field fights BoRP had against KEK throughout HoT pushed both guild’s members as both players and theory crafters, leading to a much more refined meta in NA.
I’ve gotten pretty tired of uninformed people saying this repeatedly and have felt like it invalidates all the hard work my guild members have put in for the last year, so I apologize if my post comes off as aggressive.
I think he meant that he feels most top guilds didn’t start from complete fresh players but rather experienced players from retired guilds, moving to a same new guild and bringing those knowledge to only that new guild.
Read Veri’s post again my dude.
I did.
Veri do admit that his roster is not complete fresh players and of course, it doesn’t mean it doesn’t have any fresh players.
What Sniffy is trying to say that guilds that end up with a group of elite players, regardless how big or how small, just as long there is a group, it can help to guide all those future fresh players recruited, giving birth to a new top guild. Likewise, group of elite players tend to stay together thus the number of new top guild become limited due to limited spread of knowledge. It is not like complete fresh rosters can’t become new top guild, it just take way lot more efforts and time, they have to do more experiments due to lack of experiences elsewhere those with elite groups of players can afford to do less since they experimented it before and from experiences decided certain things won’t work.
The main point is Sniffy didn’t really demean and say anyone not putting any efforts, just the amount of efforts varies thus the number of top guild born is also limited due to the amount of efforts required also varies.
Veri knows what Cid is trying to say, he’s just letting him know he is misinformed. How is Cid saying stuff like oh they’re full of gvg vets that they stockpiled because they like steamrolling and thats why they are so strong when this is just straight up untrue not demeaning to the hard work those players put in to get to that level.
Years ago, a list like this would be relevant, but now the experienced players have pooled into 1-3 guilds and that pool will probably become smaller with time.
Atm, imo, the best guilds are kek or borp and then when those guilds break apart, it’ll be whichever guild those same players have gone into. It used to be a huge list and a very spread out list when this game was actually alive, but at this point it’s the same names under a different guild.
Maybe those guilds will continue to stockpile the more experienced players and run 25 – 30 deep gvg veterans. Why not? You can’t fault people for playing with their friends. Everyone likes steamrolling. ..Maybe they’ll break apart into smaller guilds and try to train new people… who knows, but I don’t see the competitive scene reviving itself anytime soon. Not the way things are going, and it’s pretty hard to pick up pugs and try to build a core with them. Combine that with how badly everyone memes on guilds trying to build… not many make it.
Also, the “rest” of our guilds all have footage of us dumpstering each other at one point in time. It’s pretty hard to tell at this point who is the better guild. Maybe over the course of the year certain guilds happened to come out on top more often than not? Everyone here has had a kitten day or two. I’m not sure what the litmus test is, but if this is a purely open field guide then I know for a fact I’ve killed almost everyone on this list at one point or another and have been killed by most at least once. It’s pretty much impossible to get an objective view at this point.
All that being said, VII has always been fun fights. As have the rest of you. All we can really do now is go down with the ship as we get 1 new thing added to WvW every 4-6 months in the hopes that we all stay interested enough to keep playing.
TLDR: Same kitten different day.
jul… xxx Julian xxx, you got kicked 5 months ago. let it go.
Hey, I’m the leader of BoRP. I think you have a very unclear view of what kind of guild we are, what we’ve done, and who we are. In our roster we have about six people out of 28 that anybody would consider ‘old GvG veterans.’ Almost all of us are competitively-minded players from different parts of the game that came together with a positive attitude and a willingness to improve. We’ve trained from scratch about 90% of our current roster and continue to accept players from every part of the game that have a decent mechanical level and a good attitude. One of the best players in our guild came from TORK.
A competitive game mode needs people at a high level and people at a mid level. A lot of people have this misconception that every top guild needs to disband for there to be a viable scene; but the truth is that if that happens then there’s nobody to drive progression. The GvGs and open field fights BoRP had against KEK throughout HoT pushed both guild’s members as both players and theory crafters, leading to a much more refined meta in NA.
I’ve gotten pretty tired of uninformed people saying this repeatedly and have felt like it invalidates all the hard work my guild members have put in for the last year, so I apologize if my post comes off as aggressive.
I think he meant that he feels most top guilds didn’t start from complete fresh players but rather experienced players from retired guilds, moving to a same new guild and bringing those knowledge to only that new guild.
Read Veri’s post again my dude.
No class in the game is bad enough that it’s not used at all. Discussion about balance are always about comparisons to other classes. So saying, oh well you can use guardian in pvp, when top teams don’t take guardian means nothing.
They are not 3 builds, they are same build, with be same skills and rotations. Only the traitline is different, and it has no impact to gameplay, you just exchange one % damage modifier for another.
Who cares about the first year? People who played during that time. As for the top damage, this is only the case as of 2 weeks ago, but you treat it as established history. Befire that, even power Engi was doing more damage, on an easier rotation and even had the utility of Pinpoint Distribution.
And even now, DH remains a weaker Tempest, as it has always been.
If you don’t know what was going on with guardian in fractals, then you weren’t around during the first year of HoT.
Guardians are in a good spot overall. You can make an argument without resorting to bold exaggerations.
Exaggerations like how you carried raids with your guardian?
The first year isn’t a good indicator of the current state of any class. The may balance patch there were 2 different power builds for guard that did between 25k-30k dps which is perfectly viable and one which was doing 34k dps on large hitboxes which was nearly comparably to ele, probably out dpsing most pug eles tbh since no one ever hits near benchmarks. It having a near top damage build hasn’t been the case only since 2 weeks ago. The dragonhunter pull+Banish made certain encounters where you had to push/pull things trivial if you knew how to do so properly so yes it was/is entirely possible to carry groups on a guardian.
I’ve been playing consistently since almost launch, I am perfectly aware of guardians in fractals during the first year of hot and no one except for the usual groups who irrationally kick classes they perceive as “bad” ever said anything about me being on a guardian.
Again you can make arguments without resorting to exaggerations. Guardian is in a good spot, this doesn’t mean everything is perfect. Infact there are many things about guardian that I would like to see adjusted or improved but making blanket statements and things that are untrue doesn’t help anyone.
Guardians is in the best spot IMO among all the classes. At least from a wvw perspective core guard it still a strong build, dragonhunter can also exchange the core guard a little. You have burn guard also. I just tried firebrand and honestly i think it will be very requested for wvw, so much support and boons, with staff it will probably be among the new meta, loved it. So guard is in a good spot, all 3 are usefull, core, DH and firebrand seem liek will have its place.
Remove Stand Your Ground then come tell me about that good spot.
Also consider there’s a game outside of wvw.
Remove stand your ground and it would still have an on demand stunbreak and stability to their party, still multiple sources of stability especially now with firebrand, condi clear, aegis spam and other boons ect. They would still be in a good spot and widely used.
Guard is used in pvp and pve and perform well in both.
Firebrand has less stability, not more. Yes, the mantra is cute, but you can’t hit anything with 300 range cones, and without RF you will be blown up instantly when focused. The on-demand stun break and stability you mentioned yourself is tied to F3 that has double the cooldown for firebrand.
Guardian was unwanted in pve for the the first year of HoT and actively kicked from fractals, and has barely been viable for the second. And for those 2 years it has only 1 build, power DPS, when other classes can play condi or support.
As for pvp, it’s one of the worse classes right now.
I never said it would have more stability. It would have Less but you would still have enough especially with chronos. Firebrand is strong enough in wvw to make up for the things you lose out on by taking it and can largely be covered by other classes.
Who cares about the first year of HoT? Its been more than barely viable for a long time even going back to the first year, I’ve carried many a raid on guardian especially in wing 3. There are currently 3 different Guardian builds that all do top damage on large hit boxes as well as a build thats on/near top for damage on small. I don’t think i’ve ever joined a fractal group and been kicked for being a guardian lmao.
Even if it was “one of the worst” classes in pvp, that doesn’t mean much when its still pretty kitten strong able to fight and perform well on its own or in team fights.
Guardians are in a good spot overall. You can make an argument without resorting to bold exaggerations.
Guardians is in the best spot IMO among all the classes. At least from a wvw perspective core guard it still a strong build, dragonhunter can also exchange the core guard a little. You have burn guard also. I just tried firebrand and honestly i think it will be very requested for wvw, so much support and boons, with staff it will probably be among the new meta, loved it. So guard is in a good spot, all 3 are usefull, core, DH and firebrand seem liek will have its place.
Remove Stand Your Ground then come tell me about that good spot.
Also consider there’s a game outside of wvw.
Remove stand your ground and it would still have an on demand stunbreak and stability to their party, still multiple sources of stability especially now with firebrand, condi clear, aegis spam and other boons ect. They would still be in a good spot and widely used.
Guard is used in pvp and pve and perform well in both.
The problem with JQ not being able to put up with BG is that JQ has a crap ton of sea
players and BG has a lot of NA and pretty much everything. Sea players from JQ should
just spread out to other servers and they should work on getting more NA.
BG has a bigger SEA then JQ currently. Hell even Dragonbrand probably has comparable or bigger SEA currently. The vast majority of JQ’s sea is pugs and 1 or 2 guilds that run 5-10 people at maximum most often not even that many. (Not counting pugs just people in the guilds themselves)
JQ’s biggest timezone right now is NA, you can’t even possibly try to deny it why the kitten would we possibly need any more NA then we currently have.
NA – FLUX, OnS, RS, BoRP, SF, DKLT, along with a bunch of smaller guilds that run ~5-15 depending and a large population of pugs. Every map queued during reset, not uncommon to see more then 1 map queued during NA prime outside of reset.
EU – eXa, don’t run super heavy maybe ~15.
OCX – KnF, also don’t run very heavy. Can queue ebg sometimes.
SEA- DENT doesn’t run many, I would say maybe 10 on a good day if that. TPA, Cloudfly doesn’t need much of an explanation, he’s a pugmander TPA his guild only ever runs like 10 people. Vale and WE/Seed, Both run 5-10ish maybe. The rest of our sea is pugs.
So what exactly does JQ have to spread out here during sea exactly? a couple guilds who run 5-10 people at their height and pugs? Good luck convincing enough pugs to xfer to a server to make any difference during the timezone if JQ lost its SEA pugs then you would just complain about BG and Dragonbrand’s SEA.
lol ur right.
my boiJQ NA is 9+ Guilds : NA – FLUX, OnS, RS, BoRP, SF, DKLT,Dong,TPA,WE
but it’s funny see JQQ make qqing Topic looool
TPA isn’t NA.
The problem with JQ not being able to put up with BG is that JQ has a crap ton of sea
players and BG has a lot of NA and pretty much everything. Sea players from JQ should
just spread out to other servers and they should work on getting more NA.
BG has a bigger SEA then JQ currently. Hell even Dragonbrand probably has comparable or bigger SEA currently. The vast majority of JQ’s sea is pugs and 1 or 2 guilds that run 5-10 people at maximum most often not even that many. (Not counting pugs just people in the guilds themselves)
JQ’s biggest timezone right now is NA, you can’t even possibly try to deny it why the kitten would we possibly need any more NA then we currently have.
NA – FLUX, OnS, RS, BoRP, SF, DKLT, along with a bunch of smaller guilds that run ~5-15 depending and a large population of pugs. Every map queued during reset, not uncommon to see more then 1 map queued during NA prime outside of reset.
EU – eXa, don’t run super heavy maybe ~15.
OCX – KnF, also don’t run very heavy. Can queue ebg sometimes.
SEA- DENT doesn’t run many, I would say maybe 10 on a good day if that. TPA, Cloudfly doesn’t need much of an explanation, he’s a pugmander TPA his guild only ever runs like 10 people. Vale and WE/Seed, Both run 5-10ish maybe. The rest of our sea is pugs.
So what exactly does JQ have to spread out here during sea exactly? a couple guilds who run 5-10 people at their height and pugs? Good luck convincing enough pugs to xfer to a server to make any difference during the timezone if JQ lost its SEA pugs then you would just complain about BG and Dragonbrand’s SEA.
Like real war, numbers are one part of a larger equation:
Numbers
Builds/food
Organisation
Scouts and Havoc groups
Siege
Guild buffsAll of these and more add up.
This and more is correct. Coverage and Numbers play a very big part of WvW, but all of this adds up.
No, this is all wrong. This mode has nothing to do with real war simulators.
Having full que on all maps 24/7 will make you win each week, regardless of what you ‘dont do’. So long as you ‘do’ something. The mode is setup so u get lots of points just for being active.
Putting all players on a que’d map into a tightknit blob is enough to beat anything that doesnt do the same in primetime where everyone has a que.
WvsW is all about the numbers, even you must admit most zerg fights devolve at some point into spamming 1 and running through up to 20 players, who are actually fighting, without taking noteworthy dmg.
We know that 1 person can defeat 5. And 4 can beat 10. But the higher those numbers go the more slanted the gameplay becomes. Its cause abilities have a target cap (1-10). And dmg from aoe is evenly distributed, so there is no focus fire if u break those caps.
Due to the rally/waypoint/revival system there is no viable way to engage this problem in a meaningful point related way if you have lesser numbers.WvsW is about, mbe, 80 vs 80 vs 80. At such high numbers, the more you focus ur personnel in a specific spot the more you win.
If it was 20 vs 20 vs 20….it would be a different story.
Nothing I have said here can be deemed wrong. At best you can spin it as situational. But given these supposed ‘situational facts’, can you offer a concrete counter argument based on fact?
You beating 50 with a dedicated group of 30 is irrelevant, ur still not gonna beat 60 or 70 or 80 with 30. And if I could give those 50 full gear and a ‘clump and charge’ order, you’d lose with ur dedicated 30.
And that’s the point….numbers win when we overcome those target caps.
While overall numbers and coverage will let you win the ppt game. Fights are a different story. If your players are coordinated enough and in the right builds/comp and play well its entirely possible to wipe map queues with lower numbers. I’ve won plenty of fights this week alone running ~25 vs 50-60+. Just because someone has bigger numbers in a fight doesn’t mean you’ve lost at the start based on that. Those 50 players having gear means nothing if they aren’t coordinated and don’t play well. The only time I would say that the 50 will beat the 30 every time is if there is equal skill level between both groups which will never be the case or the 30 just isn’t very good.
Before I begin, this list is going to cause more drama and trouble than it’s worth but I’ll bite. This list is wrong on so many levels. People need to do their research. TBT should not be on there. Trex is dead and even then i wouldn’t put them on there. I don’t know too much about RF and Hate but I highly doubt they would make this list. VR is decent but are they really top ten in the entire game; since they have a good track record, I guess this isn’t too implausible.
It would make more sense to restrict this NA because we rarely see SEA guilds compete directly with NA guilds.
AHMA (another sea guild) has been steamrolling MGR since the last 3+ months so I don’t know why they aren’t on that list.
LATE is a very good OCX guild and unless someone has very recent vods I think they would beat MGR as well.
BB is SEA guild on FA and they quite recently beat MGR, so again they have a better claim.
GK is another sea guild on FA that probably has a slightly better if not equal claim.
AGG should definetely be on that list. Last I recall they defeated Ash and have beaten several other worthy guilds.
Agg isn’t playing gw2 anymore, they left to play Albion. They were also the only guild to lose to Ash out of the 3 they fought when they came to na. (BoRP and KEK both won their gvg’s while Agg lost theirs, Agg has also taken rounds and won gvg’s against BoRP and KEK. Though this list is open field and not gvg related so this isn’t really relevant.) TBT should at least be an honorable mention, same with hate. tRex was probably the best small man guild in the game at the time before they died.
I’m not trying to kitten on you here
[/quote]
yet thats exactly what you did, so…..[/quote]
Did you read the rest or did you just stop there and assume that all I was trying to do was throw shade at them? I think its a great idea, they just didn’t go about it as well as they could have.
We had a sea contingent for most of 2017, hence why some of the sea guilds made it in there. Our members were each given 2 votes each regardless of timezone played.
Respectfully, [BOO] was one that I personally felt should’ve made it on the list. They were only a few votes shy.
Secondly, there are deserving guilds but this wasn’t a participation vote for fan favorites and based on guilds we’ve faced, so of course it’s biased.
Lastly, This is a tribute to all the guilds we’ve fought in 2017, that we’ve hunted or have been hunted.
Most importantly, hopefully this sheds light for POF and future wvwers looking to fight with or against some of the best.
GvG is not a supported form of pvp so it was based on WvW engagements. Not to mention, GvG has it’s own clique and unique playstyle to itself.
Why even bother making the list then. If its a list of the “Top 10 WvW Fight Guilds of 2017” that denotes it should consider all guilds across all time zones not one time zone, or parts of certain time zones.
I’m not trying to kitten on you here, i’m all for the idea of showcasing guilds and WvW to garner interest in new and returning players and I think the format with the guilds and links to videos (though they should maybe contain actual wvw gameplay) is great, but this was still poorly thought out, there should be more information on the guilds/servers. It feels like something that should have been planned and organised by more then just your guild, or you should have at least contacted as many guilds as you could to get which servers they are on,websites, contacts, ect. I know this would have been easy for you guys to do, you have members in the WvW discord with access to talk to pretty much every guild listed and more so why didn’t you?
I also agree with not having a GvG list especially since the NA GvG scene is pretty barren with a lot of guilds not gvging at the moment for a multitude of different reasons. It would literally be like 3-4 guilds which would make for a pretty poor showing.
tRex is dead. As others have pointed out theres a ton of guilds who deserve to at least be honorable mentions who are left out for no particular reason.
I would really like Anet to address/change a problem in wvw which is growing worse and is used solely to hurt players.
Squads/cmdrs continue to use closed/no invite feature to exclude players from non-full squads for no reason.
I want to be clear about my complaint.
1. I love GW/wvw and am vet wvwer/gwer.
2. Im experienced good player; when motivated, can be exceptionally good player.
3. Don’t want cmdr tag, don’t want to lead, don’t have money for it.
4. Squads I am complaining about are:
A) partially full, usually 20-40;
B) not on guild runs or “training runs” (w/e that is) or “dual guild” runs (disingenuously explained as 2 guilds on training run, lol);
C) 1 squad/cmdr on a map;
D) Usually prime time, monopolizing map for >1 hr.; sometimes 4-5 hrs / nite multi days;
E) Squads w/ same players w/ control5. I am not disputing a cmdr’s right to exclude people – they have that right. Whether they should exercise that right to exclude people for no good reason is the issue and whether people should support these types of cmdrs/squads and whether anet should do something about abuses is the issue.
6. Don’t want to roam/havoc/solo – have zerg armor/boosters/food/weapons.
7. I mean this (believe it or not I don’t care) – I dont care a fig about bags.
8. Every single reason ever given to justify squad exclusion as above are illogical and do not hold up. If its just that I am hated, that’s bullying, and u will hate me whether I’m in squad or not – and it hurts squad & players when players r excluded from squad who want to join.
9. TS should not be an exclusionary tool/excuse to ban people from squad for hours – especially if people can’t join TS for w/e reason (I’m deaf).
10. It hurts squad/server/players when ppl r forced to run alongside squad – they r not as effective and neither is squad – heals indiscriminate/untimely, buffs/rezes erratic, etc. Squad does better when I’m in it rather than forced to run beside it.
11. I paid the same as everyone else.
Pls Anet monitor this situation and consider a fix. I have seen/heard (via typing) so many sickening stories of abuse of players re: entry deny/kick in partially full squads for purely abusive/bullying reasons.
This isn’t bullying or abuse at all. Commanders have options to restrict who joins their squads and are well within their rights to use these systems. Just because they’re tagged doesn’t mean it should be a free for all and anyone should be able to join the squad just because its not full. At the end of the day regardless of if its a guild run or not its THEIR squad and they can do what they want with it so you’re just going to have to suck it up or explain to the commander that you are deaf and being on comms for you doesn’t matter one way or the other and hope they care enough to read your whispers. If the commander were to say you can’t join BECAUSE you are deaf, well that’s a different story altogether.
Hi all gonna make a tempest healer. What stat spec should I be going? Cleric? Zealot?
PvP healer = mender’s
PvE healer = magi’s
WvW healer = minstrel’s
As far as I know, ele in PvP is almost always played as a healer. In WvW they can be zerg healers or tanky damage dealers as roamers. In PvE, metabattle lists a staff raid healer, but I believe most groups prefer to bring ele as a damage dealer and leave the healing to classes that can still get the job done but provide better damage/support in the process.
For wvw if you want to just be a pure healer but can’t afford minstrels armor. Nomads with minstrel trinkets and weapons also works. staff, dagger/warhorn, or dagger/focus all work well in a healing role. For runes go trooper theres no reason to use any other rune set on ele right now.
For traits go either
Water: Top/Mid/Mid or Top
Earth: Bottom/Mid or Bottom/Top or bottom
Tempest: Bottom/Mid/Bottom
In Water for the third trait take the middle one if you aren’t facing much condi just direct damage. Take the top trait if you’re having trouble with conditions and need more cleanse.
In Earth for the second trait if you find yourself getting stuck and immobilised, chilled, or crippled a lot and falling behind take bottom otherwise go middle. For the third trait same as water, if you have trouble with conditions take the top trait if you’re dieing to lots of direct damage take the bottom trait.
what if the radius was reduced? I don’t want to buff ele dps in pve to even more insane heights so maybe this would only apply to pvp/wvw…
ele wvw staff bombs of the past are completely gone, meteor shower being one of those main reasons. I think its important to keep old roles viable to combat stale gameplay. creating more working team comps will keep vets playing.
Changing the radius won’t help dps staff ele in wvw. The problem staff ele has in the current meta isn’t that it does no damage, it actually does some pretty insane damage when played well. But thats the problem you NEED to play it well for it to be effective, if you’re out of position at all you’re going to die and be useless. Staff eles right now need to not only know their class well but also have good positioning and awareness. Dps staff ele is incredibly squishy with very little sustain unless you’re sitting with the melee ball. Get caught in a boon strip/corrupt bomb at all you’re dead, get clipped by a well bomb dead, be out of position and get jumped by the melee ball you’re dead, enemy has power revs running hammer? they just shoot some cors at you and you die, get cc’d or immobilised and fall behind your melee ball? dead. These are just but a few ways that staff ele can be cucked in wvw and rendered useless.
High Condi duration is wasteful, especially in a zerg.
Better off with additional durability
No its not, higher duration will give you more dps overtime, as the fights go on and people lose resistance and get boon stripped or can’t get condi clear. The more burning you can keep on people, which duration helps you do, the more damage you’ll do to people as the fights go on. You’re already incredibly durable in either trailblazers and dire, the extra duration just makes you more effective at dealing damage.
Hi,
I am new to WvW and DH, and I prefer group match than solo. Therefore, burst damage isnt mine priority, but long sustainability fight plus some ability to support to group is my preferable style.
I want to ask was there anyone tries a pure Dire build before – all weapons, armors and accessories are in Dire stat, plus 6x Superior Rune of Undead. If yes, what are your comments?
Thanks.
Edit:
Below are my proposal:
Weapon 1: Dire LB + Sigil of Corruption + Sigil of Smoldering
Weapon 2: Dire Scepter / Sword + Dire Touch + Sigil of Corruption + Sigil of Smoldering
Armor: Dire full set with rune of undead + Malign WvW infusion
Accessories: Dire full set + Malign WvW infusionSpecialization:
Zeal: Mid – Low – Low
Valor:- Mid – Top – Low
DH: Top – Top – MidSkills: Shelter – Test of Faith – Retreat – Judge’s Intervention – Dragon’s Maw
Burn guard does work well in groups and dire performs well, i would highly recommend swapping to trailblazers eventually though. I can only say for bigger groups, as i haven’t done any smaller group play with it recently. But here are the changes i would make if you plan on following a commander.
(also as a side note others have pointed out issues with no stab, but preferably you should be in a dps role in the party, and have 2 other guards fulfilling that role of stab and support.)
For weapons take staff over longbow and scepter/torch. take one of the sigils of corruption off, you only need one. Replace with superior sigil of fire. Staff will give you more f1 passive procs which will give you more burning application than the symbol on longbow will. Keep a focus handy, burn guards melt ac’s and the focus helps with that. Your commanders will love you.
For traits.
Get rid of zeal and valor, burn guard fills a condi dps role.
Radiance – top,mid,top
Virtues – bottom,mid,top
Dragonhunter – bottom,bottom,top
For skills. I would keep shelter but change your utilities to wall of reflection, purging flames, and then the 3rd utility take either stand your ground if you’re in a party with only 1 other guardian, or procession of blades if you’re in a party with 2 other guardians. Take renewed focus as your elite skill.
On your armor, i would change to rune of the guardian, just because it works so well on burn guards.
One last thing, your food is important, since you’re filling a dps role with burn guard go for rare veggie pizza, and toxic focusing crystal. If you eventually switch from dire to trailblazers, take master tuning crystal instead.
(edited by GrahamW.5397)
- Reduce outnumbered pip to 3 OR give 1-3 pips(camp,tower,keep respectively) when you capture something while you have the outnumbered buff.
- Add to the commitment pip based on how long you’ve been on the same server.
- Add gold to the chests.(diamond, mithril, gold, ect and obviously within reason)
- Give bonus tickets at the end of the week based on how your server placed.
- Give tickets on repeat completions of the diamond chests.
These are the changes I would make.
Depends on the week. I commit 2-4 hours a night 5 days a week to wvw and to my guild and will sometimes play outside of guild rallies for a few hours as well, which give about 40-60 ranks on average with no boosters. I don’t really do one thing in specific, mostly a mix of everything(zerging, roaming, guild runs, ect)
Just let this thread die already please. The rank requirement for the extra shiny armor which is solely there for people to show off their time dedicated to wvw, is fine at 2k. If you really want to get ascended armor through wvw there is a less shiny set as well as an exotic set that doesn’t require near as many ranks and looks the SAME as the highest tier set just without the glow effects on them. Just because you can’t get the highest tier skin because you haven’t dedicated time to the game mode doesn’t make it unfair or however you would like to phrase it. I wouldn’t go into pve expecting to get legendary armor so easy, and neither should you for the wvw armor. The bigger issue is ticket acquisition, and the pips themselves we need more discussion on this, and less discussion about rank requirements which aren’t a problem.
Hi there,
I am asking for help for dragonhunter wvw builds, especially for roaming. I usually play s/f FA ele, or power rev, and never had any troubles in roaming. DH was the first elite I acquired, due to my love to Guard. “If the guardian gets a bow, It will be complete” I always said. But the reality was different I guess.
I suck ad DH roaming. Yes I can fight 1v1 and win sometimes but I cannot function properly. I used to play medi dps guard before HoT, and everything was ok. But with HoT meta and DH, I could not adapt properly.
When I meet a DH I usually can kill him/her without too much trouble
( depends on the skill level ). And when someone meets me I become a ground paste, without much trouble. Sad part is I love the class.Any advices, build tips, and decent insights?
Would recommend something like this.
For sigils, many people swear by different ones. I would recommend taking hydromancy on focus/shield, so when you have to swap to it you get a bit of extra damage, and it will chill to make it harder for enemies to move out of your damage. Other than that, anything that can increase your damage is nice. Sigils that provide a bit more sustain like leeching can also work. If you want a stacking sigil, take bloodlust or cruelty.
You can take shield over focus if you want more knockbacks. Push and pull people through test of faith with lb 3, your f1, and sheild 5 if you take it. Take judges intervention over contemplation of purity, if you aren’t facing much condi pressure and need the mobility. Swap heavy light for hunters fortification if you need some extra condi clear. Take piercing light instead of soaring devastation if you want more sustain. Also consider ditching unscathed contender for retaliatory subconscious.
There are a few different ways to play as a dh roaming, you can be really aggressive, or defensive depending on what the situation requires or who you’re fighting. Imo you should always start in bow and always auto attack as much as you can, and try to set up a true shot. It will force people to either range you back, which you can pop for f3 and block most of their damage, or they will try to get into melee range, in which case you can continue to kite them, or swap to sword/focus or sword/shield and drop test of faith and start ccing them through the ring or blocking their attacks as needed. If you do this you can almost always dictate how the fight goes, when they’re playing into your game from the start. Don’t forget you have a lot of ways to blind people. Your trap heal, sword 2, focus 4, and lb 3 which is unblockable and also a cc when traited for.
I think thats everything, though i’m probably missing something. I hope this helped.
Guardian blocks can be traited to aply fire damage, to stack more fire when blocking guards can use Guardian runes as well.
This. And to trait for applying the conditions, the guardian sacrifices a lot in terms of being able to effectively fight a group. So, no, it’s not an exploit, it’s not op, it’s not hacking. It is, in the current wvw, a legitimate tactic with upsides and down.
Oh I get what’s going on here. You use one of these builds and don’t want it nerfed. No matter it still doesn’t change the fact im telling everyone to abuse it and im making a build just for this too.
Why should it be nerfed though, its a legitimate counter to ac’s. If you nerf it people will just move to the next most effective way to kill ac’s, should we nerf those to? Should we just make ac’s untargetable by anything that might kill them just so defending keeps is easier than it already is? Do you see how this may seem ridiculous to some?
How is this so hard to understand? Just make it where the acs cant be destroyed by passive traits. esp in seconds.
I can roll up to an ac with staff eles and blow it up in seconds. Should we nerf that as well?
Guardian blocks can be traited to aply fire damage, to stack more fire when blocking guards can use Guardian runes as well.
This. And to trait for applying the conditions, the guardian sacrifices a lot in terms of being able to effectively fight a group. So, no, it’s not an exploit, it’s not op, it’s not hacking. It is, in the current wvw, a legitimate tactic with upsides and down.
Oh I get what’s going on here. You use one of these builds and don’t want it nerfed. No matter it still doesn’t change the fact im telling everyone to abuse it and im making a build just for this too.
Why should it be nerfed though, its a legitimate counter to ac’s. If you nerf it people will just move to the next most effective way to kill ac’s, should we nerf those to? Should we just make ac’s untargetable by anything that might kill them just so defending keeps is easier than it already is? Do you see how this may seem ridiculous to some?
I have to agree with the op. WvW is what I love most about this game, but as long as 15+ group play is a pirateshippy snoozefest, I’m not interested.
The mechanics of large group gameplay need to be addressed; changing rewards doesn’t touch the core issue.
If you’re pirate shipping while playing condi you’re doing it wrong, the strongest condi builds work best when they are up close and in peoples faces. The game now is throwing condi’s out with revs/guards/reapers to provide constant pressure, and your bombs now are through coordinating your boonstrips and cc’s to really pile on the condi’s and lock people down all while mitigating the amount of damage your side takes through resistance,healing,boon application, ect. Im not going to say it takes more or less skill compared to other metas in the past, but it is what it is, and you either need to adapt or you’re going to fall behind and get ran over by groups who have embraced it.
rank 1500-2000 is fine, god forbid that the players who have stuck it out through almost 5 years get rewarded a bit more than the people just jumping in now for the skins.
really so 360 – 500 hrs of wvw and I’m only 1/8th the way there and that’s “just jumping in”?
I’ve gotten around ~20 ranks since the patch. Do the math. Its not that hard to get the ranks if you really get into wvw for a while. Rank requirement is fine.
You got 20 levels in 4 hours? Would love to know how you did that. I play ktrain on beast gate and eotm and can never achieve that amount of levels and I’ve been playing for 5 years wvw.
I’m also calling BS on 20 levels in 4 hours….
If you have the wvw booster,celibration booster, experiance booster or the communial experiance bonfire, hero banner, as well as the mist buff it is possible to get that by karma training. It would be hard it involves every single booster and non stop k training but it is possible. I remember during golem week I got about 25 lvls in about 7 hrs and I only had a few of theese buffs.
We weren’t even ktraining, literally just capped smc and then farmed the other 2 map queues who kept slamming themselves into it for 4 hours and later on we capped green keep and had a steady supply of people running into the keep from spawn trying to save it. People vastly underestimating how quick you can get wxp with constant fights when your server is the one running people over and occasionally running back to your own third to take stuff back that got back-capped.
Condi isn’t an issue with proper group comp and good game-play.
rank 1500-2000 is fine, god forbid that the players who have stuck it out through almost 5 years get rewarded a bit more than the people just jumping in now for the skins.
really so 360 – 500 hrs of wvw and I’m only 1/8th the way there and that’s “just jumping in”?
I’ve gotten around ~20 ranks since the patch. Do the math. Its not that hard to get the ranks if you really get into wvw for a while. Rank requirement is fine.
You got 20 levels in 4 hours? Would love to know how you did that. I play ktrain on beast gate and eotm and can never achieve that amount of levels and I’ve been playing for 5 years wvw.
I’m also calling BS on 20 levels in 4 hours….
did wvw for 4 hours after the patch and about 2-3 hours later on at my normal raid time. During my normal raid time i got 8 ranks without any of the wxp drops or boosters. My rank at the start of the day was 1848, right now my rank is 1876.
I 100% do not believe you but I’m not about to argue about it with somebody on the internet.
To be fair, ebg was kind of absurd, we were just one pushing the two other servers constantly for 4 hours so it was obviously kind of an extreme. The 8 ranks in ~2-3 hours was more normal for a guild raid in wvw tbh, i usually get around 5-8 ranks.
You have seasoned WvW players here who have never achieved what you are claiming so my question to you is why continue on? I don’t doubt you think ranks are easy to come by as they can be depending on how you look at it. An 8 rank leap in 2-3 hours? smh. Nothing constructive to read here from these kinds of post.
I am a seasoned wvw player. It’s been my primary game mode since launch and the guild I am in is primarily a wvw guild we raid 2-3 hours a night 4-5 times a week. In my and my guilds experience 5-8 levels a night it about average. Most people I’ve talked to and are friends with that have stuck with the game mode long term are at least near or well over 2k by now. The armor is there to reward LONG TERM players, the rank requirement is fine for that. It’s not something you should be jumping in and looking to grind for. How is letting people know that getting the ranks not as kittenome are trying to make it out to be and to not be afraid to stick it out and enjoy wvw in the meantime constructive? You saying I’m “not constructive” because I don’t agree doesn’t help things either. That’s the great thing about discussion, people have different opinions and don’t always agree.
rank 1500-2000 is fine, god forbid that the players who have stuck it out through almost 5 years get rewarded a bit more than the people just jumping in now for the skins.
really so 360 – 500 hrs of wvw and I’m only 1/8th the way there and that’s “just jumping in”?
I’ve gotten around ~20 ranks since the patch. Do the math. Its not that hard to get the ranks if you really get into wvw for a while. Rank requirement is fine.
You got 20 levels in 4 hours? Would love to know how you did that. I play ktrain on beast gate and eotm and can never achieve that amount of levels and I’ve been playing for 5 years wvw.
I’m also calling BS on 20 levels in 4 hours….
did wvw for 4 hours after the patch and about 2-3 hours later on at my normal raid time. During my normal raid time i got 8 ranks without any of the wxp drops or boosters. My rank at the start of the day was 1848, right now my rank is 1876.
I 100% do not believe you but I’m not about to argue about it with somebody on the internet.
To be fair, ebg was kind of absurd, we were just one pushing the two other servers constantly for 4 hours so it was obviously kind of an extreme. The 8 ranks in ~2-3 hours was more normal for a guild raid in wvw tbh, i usually get around 5-8 ranks.
rank 1500-2000 is fine, god forbid that the players who have stuck it out through almost 5 years get rewarded a bit more than the people just jumping in now for the skins.
really so 360 – 500 hrs of wvw and I’m only 1/8th the way there and that’s “just jumping in”?
I’ve gotten around ~20 ranks since the patch. Do the math. Its not that hard to get the ranks if you really get into wvw for a while. Rank requirement is fine.
You got 20 levels in 4 hours? Would love to know how you did that. I play ktrain on beast gate and eotm and can never achieve that amount of levels and I’ve been playing for 5 years wvw.
I’m also calling BS on 20 levels in 4 hours….
did wvw for 4 hours after the patch and about 2-3 hours later on at my normal raid time. During my normal raid time i got 8 ranks without any of the wxp drops or boosters. My rank at the start of the day was 1848, right now my rank is 1876.
isn’t the whole point to reward those that play/ have played wvw loyally? just like the legendary armor rewards those that do raids or basically any other legendary before rewarded people who grinded pve
Legendary Armor will take about 6 months from scratch with a good dedication in the first 1-2 months and then just 1-2 nights of weekly runs.
Legendary Weapons require 1-3 months of average farming, depending of the person.
Legendary Backpacks, PvP or FotM, require 3 months everyday playing ( with a pause in between for PvP ).
I think we can say that any Legendary so far takes from 3 to 6 months if you’re dedicated enough, without necessary everyday logging in but good weekly amount of play.
Can you say someone can farm 2k Ranks in 6 months in the same condition? I highly doubt it. Even pips capping say no.
The pip rewards are the bigger issue than the rank requirement tbh. Could use a look at.
I play this game for 4 years and i don’t have 2k.
Then you didn’t spend that long in WvW or you didn’t spend your time in WvW very effectively. Capture objectives and kill players, easy to get WXP. My group runs 5 people for about 3 hours a night on raid nights and I usually get 5-10 ranks per run depending on who we’re fighting against.
So you are telling me that this wvw should be played only in big zergs trying to ppt all the time, forget the fights and do nothing besides that?
Well, i don’t think so. I play as a roamer and until last year i was on a big guilds.
There is no right or wrong. It is still an absurd require so much of a player for a game, it is not health at all and dissipate that idea only shows anet doesn’t care.
Anet isn’t requiring you to do anything, they’re rewarding people who have stuck with the game mode in the long term.
sorry man 360 hours in 5 years is not a lot…
I’ve been played games for 25 yrs now 500 hrs for me in wvw and I’ve mastered 99% of the game mode, telling me I need to spend another 1500 hrs is ridiculous when I’ve already mastered it after about 50 hrs.
I’ve gotten 20 ranks today in about 4 hours, do the math. It does not take 2000 hours to get 2000 ranks.
5 ranks per hour? 25,000 points an hour? That’s a rank every 12 minutes. Can we all move to your server and you can tell us how you did it, and will continue to do it for the next 2000 ranks.
Most people are lucky to rank up once an hour, or even less on quieter servers before today.
I’m on about 2300 ranks after 5 years of playing- but then I didn’t spend all my time spamming 1 at the front of the choo choo train and scouted, flipped camps and generally play in quieter times.
Even in peak times 2 to 3 ranks an hour is extremely rare.
Realistically 2000 ranks will take most people at least 1000 hours, and probably double that.
Taking camps/sentries/towers/the occasional keep, fighting other groups of players, you know…actually playing wvw. The t3 armor is something that’s supposed to be somewhat prestigious and an indicator that you’ve played wvw actively and dedicated time to it. Its not something you should be able to get overnight or just by playing for an hour a night for a few weeks. The rank requirement is fine, its not even that high tbh.
You forget that not everybody is running ktrain 24/7.
I’ve played hardcore WvW for at least 2 years at around 3-4 hrs of WvW each day, I’m not even at rank 1000 and I won’t let anybody tell me that I’m not dedicated enaugh or don’t deserve the rewards yet.
Even if you are rank 1000 you’ve spent a dozen times more hours in this gamemode than any PvE or PvE player.I’ve also made over 20 ranks since the patch, but that’s with birthday booster and the highest player participation since the last tournament. That is in not a single way representative for your average WvW life.
Unsure what you’ve been doing for two years, i play for 2-3 hours a night and get 3-4 ranks minimum an hour. If you play 3-4 hours a day to not even be at 1k you have to be not getting ranks at all when you play, which is nearly impossible if you’re actually playing. You can literally run around for 20 minutes capping camps and sentries and get a rank or two.
sorry man 360 hours in 5 years is not a lot…
I’ve been played games for 25 yrs now 500 hrs for me in wvw and I’ve mastered 99% of the game mode, telling me I need to spend another 1500 hrs is ridiculous when I’ve already mastered it after about 50 hrs.
I’ve gotten 20 ranks today in about 4 hours, do the math. It does not take 2000 hours to get 2000 ranks.
rank 1500-2000 is fine, god forbid that the players who have stuck it out through almost 5 years get rewarded a bit more than the people just jumping in now for the skins.
really so 360 – 500 hrs of wvw and I’m only 1/8th the way there and that’s “just jumping in”?
I’ve gotten around ~20 ranks since the patch. Do the math. Its not that hard to get the ranks if you really get into wvw for a while. Rank requirement is fine.
rank 1500-2000 is fine, god forbid that the players who have stuck it out through almost 5 years get rewarded a bit more than the people just jumping in now for the skins.
WvW has grown more and more toxic over time, and I think the devs need to take a stronger stance on communication methods inside wvw… It was a smart idea to remove enemy global chat and such, but I think 2 additional layers of chat prevention would go a long way to help clean up the unnecessary negativity while playing. And those are…
…A system wide feature that prevents all enemy whispers and mails while inside wvw. Only mutual friends list people, not followers, can communicate cross server.
Some of us are mature and we want to pop in, goof off and enjoy the game… not get inundated with childish rage whispers from emotionally unstable teens and adults who need to feel some sort of superiority in a video game… Also, with updates coming to wvw, that will bring in new and returning players, I think it would be a healthy change to prevent all forms of enemy communication so we don’t enable bad behaviors, trolling and stupidity.
And to those who will say… “No, I made friends on the opposing side”… If you really want to connect with someone then you can leave wvw and send a message or mail… “But just block”… sure, that’s valid, but I think it’s about time for the devs to take some additional steps to stop enabling bad behavior at the source.
Why should i have to leave wvw just to message a friend only to immediately go back into wvw, or possibly get stuck in a queue and stuck out of wvw for no reason. If people send you angry whispers just block them, the system is there for exactly this reason.
“mutual friends list people, not followers, can communicate cross server”
Again, why is this needed, the block function exists for a reason.
WvW has grown more and more toxic over time, and I think the devs need to take a stronger stance on communication methods inside wvw… It was a smart idea to remove enemy global chat and such, but I think 2 additional layers of chat prevention would go a long way to help clean up the unnecessary negativity while playing. And those are…
…A system wide feature that prevents all enemy whispers and mails while inside wvw. Only mutual friends list people, not followers, can communicate cross server.
Some of us are mature and we want to pop in, goof off and enjoy the game… not get inundated with childish rage whispers from emotionally unstable teens and adults who need to feel some sort of superiority in a video game… Also, with updates coming to wvw, that will bring in new and returning players, I think it would be a healthy change to prevent all forms of enemy communication so we don’t enable bad behaviors, trolling and stupidity.
And to those who will say… “No, I made friends on the opposing side”… If you really want to connect with someone then you can leave wvw and send a message or mail… “But just block”… sure, that’s valid, but I think it’s about time for the devs to take some additional steps to stop enabling bad behavior at the source.
Why should i have to leave wvw just to message a friend only to immediately go back into wvw, or possibly get stuck in a queue and stuck out of wvw for no reason. If people send you angry whispers just block them, the system is there for exactly this reason.
Am I? You make it sound like taking Honor is that aweful. It is not. Sure, no damage modifiers yadda yadda. But in scenarios where you aim for them you don’t need perma Swiftness anyway.
Retreat + Pure of Voice is very flexible when it comes to creating builds. Removing conditions and being able to more frequently negate a fatal blow on your party is never useless. You don’t even need Staff for that.
You know what Retreat + Pure of Voice isn’t? It’s not perma swiftness. You know what my suggestion’s aiming at? Exactly that.
Meanwhile, you suggestion is picking a Glyph plus the related trait to get perma Swiftness. Why would any Elementalist ever make such an investment? You said it yourself: There is a way less expensive Minor for movement speed. However, what about all the Elementalists not picking Air? Why is Air okay, but Honor isn’t? Why is it okay for other classes to switch traits or utilities, but it is too much of a bother on Guardian?
Mesmers regularly picking Focus? When? Where? I’m not talking meta build but even on none meta this is debatable. You won’t want SoI on your bar unless you are playing boonshare or a Distortion build which both usually are only used in game modes where you don’t need them for the Swiftness to begin with.
Why is it okay for a Necro to pick Spectral Mastery and Spectral Walk? Although the trait competes with one which is pretty important for your shroud? While not getting perma Swiftness? How is this okay, while it is not for Guardians? And why is this set up better although it doesn’t offer any group utility? Since we ar at it: How do you feel about two other mobility options being stuck in the same traitline while WH will put you in combat all the time?
My point being: This is a very subjective discussion. However, ‘mathematically’ Retreat + Pure Voice or boon duration isn’t any worse than options on other classes. Maybe you don’t like this option. But again, that’s subjective. Focus + SoI (Mes), Spectral Walk + Spectral Mastery (Nec), WH + weapon trait (War) etc. are not universally better.
Your issue seems to be that you don’t want to pick Honor for movement speed. That’s a fair point. It’s also a fair point that other classes might have more options. However, it doesn’t mean that they are more attractive in general. And it doesn’t mean that Retreat sucks and needs to be buffed. It just doesn’t suit you.
The more you talk, the more you prove you don’t know a thing about Mesmers. I just pity your pugs.
In the same breath, you say Honor is fine, but picking 1 single trait in a trait line you’d be normally using is an “investment”.
This is a joke.
It solves a non existent problem. Take the shout cd trait, some boon duration and you have perma swiftness. I get what you’re trying to suggest but this change is not needed.
Except that it’s literally the most demanded thing for guardian. Not this change in particular, but better access to movement speed. And you are not saying anything new, only proving that you didn’t read my posts. I never said permanent swiftness is not possible.
In regards to wvw, i wouldn’t say retreat is a staple of frontline builds (it is a very viable option) since its more of a flex slot for your utilities then something that will be in every build, but thats kind of a different topic so i won’t say too much.
It’s one of the popular choices and it can offer perma-swiftness to 5 with the frontline build. The point was that it wouldn’t be a change for what the build can do.
Also revs exist.
What’s that supposed to mean?
I never said that you said perma swiftness wasn’t possible, im saying because it is possible and so easy for guard to do that the change you’re suggesting solves an issue that doesn’t exist. Rev part was about wvw, every group should have a rev who can pulse swiftness which is basically permanent while you’re running from place to place. So guards can drop retreat for other options which there are many.
Great, from today, you better be on your rev sharing swiftness with me every time I want to do open-world stuff.
Read, wvw. Open world pve you can run literally anything you want and still be effective so i don’t see how that changes anything. You don’t even need to take the trait for perma swiftness, staff+retreat and some boon duration is enough to give you perma swiftness for just running around open pve.
Also apparently me disagreeing with you about this being an issue or not an issue is a violation and anet removed my first comment. Lmao.
It solves a non existent problem. Take the shout cd trait, some boon duration and you have perma swiftness. I get what you’re trying to suggest but this change is not needed.
Except that it’s literally the most demanded thing for guardian. Not this change in particular, but better access to movement speed. And you are not saying anything new, only proving that you didn’t read my posts. I never said permanent swiftness is not possible.
In regards to wvw, i wouldn’t say retreat is a staple of frontline builds (it is a very viable option) since its more of a flex slot for your utilities then something that will be in every build, but thats kind of a different topic so i won’t say too much.
It’s one of the popular choices and it can offer perma-swiftness to 5 with the frontline build. The point was that it wouldn’t be a change for what the build can do.
Also revs exist.
What’s that supposed to mean?
I never said that you said perma swiftness wasn’t possible, im saying because it is possible and so easy for guard to do that the change you’re suggesting solves an issue that doesn’t exist. Rev part was about wvw, every group should have a rev who can pulse swiftness which is basically permanent while you’re running from place to place. So guards can drop retreat for other options which there are many.
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You say its useless, but every day i see people in wvw asking if there’s a group around. If they draw in people with rewards, and make it easier for them to find people to play with this could easily draw in the players that we desperately need in wvw and encourage them to stick around. This will help with the population problem. Its not a solution to the problem, but it will definitely help and be positive in the long term especially if they continue to make well thought out adjustments to wvw systems.
Unless the next elite spec is as broken as chrono was at HoT launch or core mesmer is redesigned, we will never get a true DPS spec. Its just not possible without one of those two things happening, because of how base mesmer is designed.
And yes, a spec that fundamentally alters the shatter and/or illusion mechanic would be equivalent to core mesmer being redesigned, as it would prove that Anet found it impossible to create a DPS spec for mesmer with its current design.
That’s why I keep pushing for mesmer to be redesigned, at least partially. The class just needs it
If you REALLY, REALLY feel the need to do dps on mesmer, you can always play condi mes, it pulls respectable numbers. Yes i know its not “optimal” and that other condi classes can do more, but it does enough to be viable, and its not like raids are all that hard if you’re playing with a competent group, im sure you can play some “off meta” stuff for fun and still clear it easily.
While I second that idea, there is another problem to deal with here, the lack of mesmers in general.
Sure you could ask a pug raid group to run condi dps mesmer and hope they don’t instant kick you after demanding you switch to support or tank, but why take the risk?
Static groups might allow you to roll condi mesmer now and there for the luls, if they have to many mesmers available. Usually though it’ll end with them telling you to stop goofing around and either plau support or log to a propet dps.
As far as the next expansion all I hope for is mesmer to stay relevant. I don’t care if as dps or support. I’d be fine with a mediocre dps build as long as we remain a desired support class (chrono is very strong). If they nerf chrono or buff other classes to outperform us support wise they would really have to make our 2nd elite spec broken as hell for mesmer to pull high dps numbers.
As long as we kitten out alacrity, quickness and other boons i think mesmer will always be relevant. Also party wide distortion is always nice at higher levels of play.
Unless the next elite spec is as broken as chrono was at HoT launch or core mesmer is redesigned, we will never get a true DPS spec. Its just not possible without one of those two things happening, because of how base mesmer is designed.
And yes, a spec that fundamentally alters the shatter and/or illusion mechanic would be equivalent to core mesmer being redesigned, as it would prove that Anet found it impossible to create a DPS spec for mesmer with its current design.
That’s why I keep pushing for mesmer to be redesigned, at least partially. The class just needs it
If you REALLY, REALLY feel the need to do dps on mesmer, you can always play condi mes, it pulls respectable numbers. Yes i know its not “optimal” and that other condi classes can do more, but it does enough to be viable, and its not like raids are all that hard if you’re playing with a competent group, im sure you can play some “off meta” stuff for fun and still clear it easily.
(edited by GrahamW.5397)
Because chronomancer isn’t a dps spec it’s utility and not dps, leave the damage dealing to the classes built for that.
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This is pure mockery for the PvP/WvW guardian
They really want signets to be used but eny right mind guard/DH uses signets at that cooldown i better use SW
They nerf the DH trait line AGAIN (worst possible in the right place, i swear)
’’True Shot- The recharge of this skill has been increased from 4 seconds to 6 seconds in PvP and WvW,, is this really there hate towards the DH /trait that they are so proud of (or disappointed towards the idea of the skills/traits)
Our escape the med trait nerf (in some counter dmg )
And this ->Revealed<- this they give it for US or for the thief so synergize with https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed_TrainingDo they even hear the Guards/DH players that desperate screams for the remake of some skills from weapons/traits that can make a difference in the PVP or WvW survivability or even PVE
WvW guardian is fine, as is PVE guard.
WvW the only nerf to dh that applied was the extra 2s on true shot and the 1s loss on the shield of courage duration, which imo without the other nerfs on top of them isn’t all that bad. DH wasn’t really used outside of roaming anyway so its not like it really affects our place in WvW group comps much at all since base guard is far superior for larger groups. If you did want to use DH it was generally for a more pirate ship play style since you lose a lot of sustain by taking it. Pulling people in to your group to create downs with f1 and using lb 5 to trap people in clumps before you moved in to bomb them with necros. The extra 2s on true shot doesn’t really affect how longbow was being used and the f3 lasting for 3 seconds is still plenty of time since you rotate using them with the other DH’s.
For PvE, longbow wasn’t used, at all. Scepter/torch and hammer are by far the superior options for the role that guardians play in PvE. The nerfs/changes don’t really affect PvE at all
Then there’s PvP…. There’s honestly nothing good at all to say about this patch for guardian in PvP. This is a depressing patch if you play a guardian. Massive unneeded nerfs to our sustain and damage. Starting with test of faith, yet again another nerf, 10% reduced damage, just..why? The damage on this was fine it didn’t need to be nerfed again. Damage on smite condition when you have a condition on you nerfed by 21% again, why was this needed? No seriously why? On top of that they nerf the base healing on Wings of Resolve by 21%? AND add 15s to the cool down of Hunters Determination? AND add 15s to the cool down of Renewed Focus???? I just don’t understand how anyone at anet looked at these changes and said “oh yeah that looks fine put it through”. For a class that lives and dies around managing its cooldowns, we lost enough damage and sustain between these changes for our management of them to not even matter because these nerfs are kittening asinine. What a kittening complete joke of a patch for guardians in pvp. All these changes do is kill diversity in the class, shoving power builds more and more out of the realm of viability.
TLDR – Hope you didn’t like playing offensive, power damage DH builds in PvP.
(edited by GrahamW.5397)