Showing Posts For Kalathra.3128:
Had to edit it to clarify I meant the designer who made the fem-bot model.
Half this thread seems to be about how some of us are sexist. I’m pretty okay with the bots. If they were bartenders, like someone mentioned above. A bartender is fine to anthropomorphize. Give them big butts, give them nipples, give them high heels. It’s fine. Perhaps a bit in bad taste since it implies a sexualized angle and that maybe they were built anatomically correct but hey, s’fine.
I’m just on the whole angle of big fighter warrior. If they are for war, why the nipples, why the well formed butt, why the high heels? None of these help for war. Why the innards half showing?
It’s just that for warriors they really don’t look that warriorsome.
Like Willisium mentioned, most of that was discussed at length earlier on in the forum, with good points from each side of those who are for and against the design. You can go back and read all of the things that were said, because I think everyone made some good points.
Again, areolas, not nipples.
To me, they’re modelled after Amazonians. Would you prefer if she surrounded herself with hulky half dressed man bots?
They’re not sex bots. They’re dangerous warriors intended to defend the realm. Why is it a bad thing that these defenders were modelled after women? Is Xena a bad example too, should she have been Male?
Because your ‘dangerous warriors’ are made with a huge and well formed butt, nipples, and fight on heels. ON HEELS!
YES! LET US SEND OUR DANGEROUS WARRIOR BOTS TO FIGHT THE CENTAUR! ON HIGH HEELS! OVER RUGGED TERRAIN!
It makes perfect sense. I’m not sure about who designed these bots, but I worry about you, son. And your team leaders who said to go ahead and make high heeled, big butted, nippled fem-bots.
It does make perfect sense.
These aren’t people, they were made, and programmed to perform in the shape they have. Their center of gravity could be placed and manipulated so that they’d be able to perform with the heeled feet they have, on any terrain. They don’t have to worry about fumbling and tripping over their own feet, or any kind of human error, they don’t have to worry about losing their balance nearly as much as a regular person, because they were designed to work that way. Also, it’s a fantasy universe, all the female characters wear heels, if were going to talk about proper footwear it would be a whole other large discussion, but specifically in this case, the way their feet are shaped does little to add or take away from the topic at hand.
Also, areolas not nipples. You should be able to name the body part you are so offended by, nipples and areolas are different.
I don’t think people find femininity offensive, but rather the emphasis of physical qualities. The only thing feminine about the watchknights are their overtly female qualities like their breasts and hips, and these qualities are rather exaggerated. I believe this to be the source of the outrage. But that’s to expected because we live in an age where but where body image (of both genders) is used to create pressures and biases in order to mass market products and habits, and the moral implications of this practice, which is worthy of disdain, can be easily extrapolated.
That said, there are always other ways to convey femininity without resorting to giving things boobs and hips, but at the same time I’m not going to fault ANet for what they did because the alternative I mentioned is quite hard and they’ve kind of put themselves in a corner in terms of quality control with their tight two week release schedule.
Also Nostalgia Chick offers a more balanced view of females modern media (movies in this case), with deeper insight. To be perfectly fair though, the bar for this isn’t set very high. What’s more is that she doesn’t even need a kickstarter to do her work (and to procrastinate at doing it)! Just sayin’.
I agree that’s why people seem to find it offensive, but I don’t agree that they should, necessarily, or at least that they should give it some more thought. There are exaggerations of body image throughout the entire game, and in many others, because it’s styled to be that way. I agree that body image is a big deal, I struggle with it myself, but at the same time, I’m not going to look at a CGI robot and compare myself to them. A CGI human? Maybe. Even with body image, we tend to look towards people that already almost look like us.
I also agree there are other ways to convey femininity, but this is definitely the most powerful way to do it. Both symbolically and aesthetically, any other feminine traits would have been completely missed or dismissed, and aesthetics is the best way to get your point across in visual mediums. Even more powerful and positive, to me, is that this is the first instance that I’m aware of, of a robot with a female form being placed in a position of power, and protection. Normally, fem bots have always been used as in media as sexualised objects for entertainment purposes. Which is far more detrimental, both symbolically, and metaphorically. This is a hugely positive, powerful representation, even if it is just robots with boobs. (I know you didn’t say anything against that, I went on a tangent after quoting you.)
Also, 100% agree about Nostalgia Chick. If anyone does decide to go and watch the FemFreq videos, please go and watch any of the many counter-‘arguments’, and discussions surrounding her videos and inform yourself of more than just her viewpoint. Her videos are quite bad for misinformation, or at least misrepresenting information, and cherry picking. I think they’re a good thing to watch to hear what she has to say, I agree with some of her points, but please don’t listen to her videos alone and claim them absolute. Get other views and opinions, too, and form your own opinion from the pool of them.
There is indeed such a thing as exaggerating the female form to a degree of anatomical impossibility.
The watchknights are by no means the worst offenders of this at all (as I’ve said before, I love their design). However, Giselle Bundchen is a supermodel and she has twice the watchknight’s waist size… (see below)
Also, their pelvises are actually at an angle that over-emphasizes their butts to a degree that is also anatomically impossible. There is a picture out there that illustrates this by taking a 3d model of a woman and gradually photoshopping it back to fit onto a human skeleton. It looked quite different afterwards. Unfortunately, I can’t find it.
(I’m not saying that the design of the watchknights is bad or inappropriate. I am saying that yes, they are sexualized. I personally don’t have a problem with that, although I understand it if other people do.)
I agree they can be taken and stylized to such a degree that it’s an anatomical impossibility. I disagree that the pelvis has been so drastically distorted as you say it has, at least not versus the other character models within this game in particular. That’s why I said comparatively, and – while I admit not clearly stated- I was saying this with mass. Because as I also mentioned in my earlier post, of course they’re not going to be anatomically impossible if they’re essentially bone structure and some metallic mass in chosen areas. I’m aware there is no woman on earth shaped exactly like that, they’d be missing bits, but comparatively, if they had flesh and muscle to fill them out, they wouldn’t look as drastically thin.
Unfortunately, I wasn’t able to find a picture that was exactly the same angle, size, or position, so I’m not at all insinuating this is completely accurate, only roughly so. Regardless, I lined up the hips and waist, since that seems to be the main complaint. The character models, when placed over / under the female human character model, is relatively the same shape. The sizes are different, (I’m under the impression the Watchknights are taller) but the core shape of the hips, legs, and what the waist would be aren’t that extremely distorted from the original human female character models.
Also, I’m a 4’10”, “curvy” woman, I’m not close to the same shape or size as they are, and I’m certainly not an ideal but I wouldn’t compare myself to them, in any context, in any media, nor do I see anything negative about their design, not only because they’re fictional, but because they’re not meant to look ‘human’. They aren’t meant to look unnatural, because they’re not. To think that anyone is going to look at these figures and become fixated on being that shape, mental disorders not-withstanding, is absurd. That isn’t to say I don’t obsess over my appearance, I do, but I have sense, and – again, mental disorders not-withstanding – so does everyone else when it comes to a stylised figure of this nature.
People should be appreciative of all forms, male and female, big and small, regardless, and women, I think, especially should be positive, and proud to see the female figure, both as the player characters who are strong, powerful women, and any depiction of female Amazonian might, even in robotic form. It truly upsets me that this is being argued against and seen negatively, maybe it shouldn’t be celebrated, but at least appreciated.
I see the word “sexualisation” and “fetishizing” being thrown around, and I’m curious where you think that idea comes from. Looking alone at the character model, there is nothing “sexualised” about them. They’re garnished with a female form, yes, but they’re doll like in their anatomy. You mention them having nipples, I assume the word you were looking for was areolas, because if they were to resemble a body part, that’s the part it would be. Even still, I don’t see anything inherently wrong with that. Just because of that, or the fact that they’ve been given a rear end (which, any butt would be ‘defined’ and ‘contoured’, I’ve never seen an artistic representation that wasn’t), doesn’t immediately make them sexualised. Because they aren’t given clothing doesn’t make then “nude”, they’re not people, they’re machines, and just because their metal is out for all to see, does not immediately make them sexual objects.
I’m so sad that I live in a time where any depiction of the female form that doesn’t immediately match a certain person’s standards is seen in a negative way, that anything even remotely resembling nudity is seen negatively. We are so body-phobic, that even a positive depiction of women in a fantasy context has to be thrown into the “sexism” pile because they’re character model is to “thin”. Let it be known, for the record, in a real life context, I am just as much against “thin” shaming as I am “fat” shaming -, but this isn’t real life context.
This isn’t a magazine, or a depiction, even a stylised one, of a human, it’s of a robot. If you look at that character model and imagine skin and muscle overlaid on top of those parts, it seems a pretty average size to me. Of course, without skin, and muscle mass, of course it’s thin. If you took all my skin, and muscle and fat off parts of my body missing from the robot, I’d look like that too, albeit a much more gore-y version.
These designs are not, in any way sexual, unless you put them in a sexual light. If you start thinking of them as if they were meant to be sexual objects, then yes, you’re going to see them sexually. I haven’t, and I don’t, funnily enough, because I see them for what they are, not on the inside, just what they are. Robots, with a feminine figure, to which I say, “Awesome!”
I’m not so immediately distained by the sight of a female figure that I have to say, “Good gods, put clothes on it! It’s too thin! Think of the children!” Because that shouldn’t be the thought process, you focus so much on them being too small, without regard for anyone who could be comparatively the same shape in reality (with skin, of course). There are people who are naturally that shape, women come in all shapes and sizes, whose breasts are indeed that perky, butts just as round, and comparatively as thin. Criticizing any shape in any way is inherently negative, and detrimental to any message about positive body image you’re trying to send out. Size should not matter, and I agree every size should be portrayed, but knocking it because it’s not the same shape or size as you, or what you consider the average, is not a healthy message either.
The playable character models have a range of sizes available, and I know someone said they aren’t ugly, but I would tend to disagree. I find some of them quite unattractive, and that’s not a bad thing, that’s a positive thing, in my opinion. Same as having the varying sizes, and if they didn’t allow that, I would criticize, but criticize the NPCs seems nonsensical, to me. Especially when the NPCs in question are mechanical creations, not depictions of people.
I would also note, that they were meant to be created by a woman, and someone who draws, I do tend to draw my idealisation of a female form. Not because it’s the norm, most people would say my designs aren’t “magazine” depictions of women, but because they’re what I like to look at. The same could be said in the context of a woman creating female formed robots, you would make them in a form that resembled yourself, or an idealised version of yourself. There’s nothing wrong with that, and honestly, probably quite realistic in context.
I think the most bothersome thing I’ve read is that they’re “attractive to the male eye”, they’re attractive to me, too. Sure, some of the more immature or lonely are going to look at them in a sexual context, but they’ll do the same to any female character figure, in any amount of clothing, regardless. Some people are just like that, the majority, however, are not. (Continued, since it was too long to post in one.)