Showing Posts For Kaon Lowe.7218:
Why do people get so mad when they’re incapable of doing things? It’s obviously beatable, if you can’t beat it just pass on it, it gives you some crappy exotic you can’t salvage or sell and an achievement that won’t even be listed in a couple of days, woopty do, 10 extra points.
Because for a lot of people the things preventing them from clearing it are not their own skill, but things like the camera’s moodiness and them being screwed over to even see their character if they got stuck with an unlucky group composition.
it is one thing to not accomplish something because you aren’t good enough at it, that motivates some to try harder and some to just accept such things aren’t for them, having to do something while unrelated annoyances are making it harder on you doesn’t motivate them, it angers them. the fact this puzzle has to be done as a group is already making some players rude and mean to Char and norn players (most of those norn and charr aren’t even trying to screw over the other players, they just liked the big races and already have to fight the camera 3x more than other races in jumping puzzles, they don’t need the community hating them too.
I don’t understand why the discussion has shifted to disabled gamers. Obviously the notion that the difficulty should be lowered to cater to disabled gamers is ridiculous – where do you stop? Do you then cater it to toddlers? Do you start catering it to gamers with greater degrees of disability? Say you make it so people with a slight disability can complete it. Oh, here’s a gamer with an even more debilitating condition, and since you lowered the difficulty for the previous group of gamers you have to do it again! Eventually all games will be at the level where infant monkeys rolling their faces on a keyboard can beat it.
This is not a problem of discrimination but the fact that you CAN’T design content without having a TARGET AUDIENCE. This particular piece of content was DESIGNED to be difficult and requiring a certain degree of dexterity and coordination. By design, not the entire playing population will be able to complete it. Bringing in disability as an argument to attempt to lower the difficulty of something DESIGNED to be difficult is…silly. It was never MEANT to be able to be done by everyone.
Obviously you are only reading the parts of the discussion you want to read and missing the whole offered solution where EVERYONE is made happy by offering difficulty levels, either grouped or solo, timed or not timed, in an instanced puzzle zone for holiday puzzles along with a sliding scale of rewards to go with the level of difficulty. See? Simple. EVERYONE is happy. Unless certain people can ONLY be happy if they get to puff out their chests and say “I did it and YOU can’t! Neener neener neener!”?
Unless, of course, the content was designed so that certain people can do it while others can’t. That was sort of my point. Some people don’t want an easy mode option.
Personally i think the content is made by people who refuse to believe the camera has the problems it does especially for norn/char and Asura.
At three am still haven’t succeed, will try maybe another hour then see if I feel like bothering anymore.
The worst part in all of this, isn’t complaints with the puzzle (I have them and so do others) it isn’t the fact the people who like it as is are being belittling to the people who don’t (most of them just don’t want to lose the sense of accomplishment they had clearing it, an understandable thing.) it’s that this thing as is makes the playerbase meaner, and more jerkish just because you have to run it as a group.
one guy just now tried to demand I leave, and then demanded I unistall the game entirely because of this fact. it’s annoying and sad that just the fact this optional event brings that kind of annoyance to people, and no one thinks there may be some ground to the ‘maybe we should be running this solo’ arguement
yes in fact it does, because you are the guy who doesn’t want a video game jumping puzzle to be easier because a person with a disability isn’t as good as you at it.
Correct im the guy who “doesn’t want a video game jumping puzzle to be easier”.
And like I said in the previous post, even if you DO like the event as is, it has real annoyances and grievances people have that are worth listening, not just auto ignoring them because insecurity won’t let you believe anything can be too hard to be fun for others.
A timer free practice doesn’t hurt you, nor would it reward people who weren’t good enough, but it would give unsure people practice. Running it alone doesn’t hurt you, it removes giant characters blocking an asura players view making him have a harder time than anyone one else because of a choice he made months ago.. Fighting the camera isn’t part of the puzzle, it’s an annoyance you have to succeed in spite of.
Wouldn’t toning down the difficulty for the disabled be a slap in the face to them either way? You’re basically saying “Here you go. We made this easier just for you ‘cause you don’t have what it takes.”
There’s a disabled player in the Street Fighter community who plays with his kittening mouth and face and Capcom hasn’t shown any signs of making the game more accessible to him.
There’s a disabled player who plays GW2 PvP with a pen in his mouth and does well. ANet hasn’t catered the game around him either.
Would adding a timer free practice mode slap the players who already cleared it? would running it alone instead of with random people slap them? Would having the camera actually work for the charr instead of always spazzing out at the same point at the start of the event make slap them?
Even if you like the puzzle, running it with a group I think does more harm than good. i’ve had no less than three Asura cuss at me for being a charr, and two people asking me to remove all my armor because I block their view.
And i hope people that do end up with disabilities realize that they are not equal with other people..
That says a lot about you right there.
No, in fact it doesnt. There are special institutions for people with disabilities. All of the world realizes that disabled people have less possibilities but you think otherwise. In fact if you think that a person with trisomy 21 is not inferior to a normal person it says a lot about you. 99% of people that bought the game shouldn’t suffer because of 1%.
yes in fact it does, because you are the guy who doesn’t want a video game jumping puzzle to be easier because a person with a disability isn’t as good as you at it.
Catering to the lowest common skill level denominator of a gamer is definitely not what I want to see Anet doing. It’s great that everyone wants to be 100% the best, but games are designed to be challenging and that means not always winning in PvE scenarios. This jumping puzzle finally was just what I was looking for.
Incorrect. Games are designed to be fun. The level of challenge involved defines what is and is not fun to each individual. Making the level of challenge static and therefore “fun” to only a small select portion of your entire player base is a recipe for disaster…especially in a F2P MMO which needs to maintain a high level of active players willing to spend real life money for in game items which normally come “free” in a P2P games as rewards for content completion, etc. Therefore, a good long term business model would be one that offers a RANGE of challenge available to suit the wider player base in order to keep that larger population of players logging in long term. To that end, the puzzle could have had Difficulty modes, be instanced, have a soloable and group mode, etc so all players could choose which mode best suited them. The rewards for each mode could be scaled to match the level of difficulty as well. BUT, that would mean AN would have had to invest their profits via time, resources, paid employees etc into the game which they appear unwilling to do except in the most basic of ways. It almost appears as though they are going to milk the cow for the first year or two, feeding it just enough but with little intention of keeping that cow viable long term. This is just my initial observation which is subject to change if AN gives me reason to change it.
People would then complain that they can’t get the hard mode achievement/hard mode loot/hard mode anything because the content is too hard. It’s happened before.
Barely anything in this game matches the difficulty that the puzzle imposes, which isn’t even THAT hard. People who have little skill have tons to do. Don’t take away challenges from the game when one finally comes up.
And what about adding ways for players who are having trouble to practice easier? would being able to run it without the timer for practice make you doing it less meaningful, that you should be at the whims of the size ratio of other people, that you should have to sit and wait for longer periods the earlier you fail, as if to rub your nose in it? Even if one finds the puzzle an actual fun challenge it still has a lot of issues that even if you think the difficulty is fine are problems (race size annoyances because you have to run with others is the biggest and most obvious)
I’m glad everything is a joke of boredom for you, and for the most part I’d tend to agree most stuff is not that hard if you’ve played a lot of games, but not everyone has played tons of games, and not everyone can enjoy being thrown into a timed jumping puzzle where they also have to fight the camera and other people’s models in order to practice it. Even if they don’t change it, this feedback from the people who didn’t like it is worth them stating it, because ideally it will mean better improvements down the line.
Ok been at it some more, made it past one ‘stuck’ point, and now working up to another. My feedback still remains:
- Keep people from bringing in elite-summoned adds like hounds of balthazar, their golems, etc.
I was in one particular run where an Asura was upset with not being able to see themselves because there was a Charr, and so they summoned their Golem just to ‘distract’ the Charr. Hey, whatever, I don’t need to be griefed by this sort of annoyance either.
- A slight delay between the cut scene and the actual start will give everyone a chance to fail less.
The cut scene is great; but I zone in and see too many with the little movie icon on top of heads.
- A practice tower wouldn’t have been a horrid idea, one with no loot, no timer, no acid, for people who aren’t good at these things to learn.
- A stealth buff on all the other players present so you can save sever load by having it instantiated but still let people get the feeling that they are there alone.
- An option to group with your race. yes there is still height variation within that, but it won’t be so extreme as me being on my Asura and running with gigantic Norn. Yes I can learn blind jumping puzzles, and have done those in game but they don’t have time limits where then I have to sit around and wait for a minute to try again.
I’d actually agree an ability to run it without the mist timer (but no loot or achievement) for sake of practice would be a good idea. it doesn’t detract from the challenge for people who think it’s fine as is, while giving people who are having trouble a way to practice it.
Finally a challenge. Thanks Anet. Now can we have a boss that doesn’t make me fall asleep fighting it, or go afk and leave myself autoattacking.
No-one is forcing you to do the puzzle. Some of you are so mad at it, maybe STOP AND LEAVE? Their is a hundred other things to do.
People are aware it is optional, but a lot of them would also like to leave feedback to WHY they dislike in hopes it either gets fixed, or at least gives Anet ideas what people like and did not like about something.
Further notice most of the complaints are about the camera, the issue of other people blocking view for jumps. and the timing window because of the mist, not about the puzzle itself.
Please stop assuming everyone with issues about something just want it nerfed to oblivion so there’s no accomplishment in doing it.
It was easy enough to find a less populated overflow. Yes the camera can be improved upon, but it wasn’t a huge issue…
For the record I attempt the event on my Charr and he’s as big as they get, but really I never feel like the camera is a help in this game, I feel it works against the player more than helps.
it just feels like you could have gotten the same effect with a timer, shorter clear times prove the player is skilled, while the players who feel they aren’t good enough to do it fast can still clear it. but I’m not gonna rage on it because luckily it is optional.
Finally a challenge. Thanks Anet. Now can we have a boss that doesn’t make me fall asleep fighting it, or go afk and leave myself autoattacking.
No-one is forcing you to do the puzzle. Some of you are so mad at it, maybe STOP AND LEAVE? Their is a hundred other things to do.
People are aware it is optional, but a lot of them would also like to leave feedback to WHY they dislike in hopes it either gets fixed, or at least gives Anet ideas what people like and did not like about something.
Further notice most of the complaints are about the camera, the issue of other people blocking view for jumps. and the timing window because of the mist, not about the puzzle itself.
Please stop assuming everyone with issues about something just want it nerfed to oblivion so there’s no accomplishment in doing it.
Yeah I’m just gonna chime in this is really probably the thing I just outright hate about the event.
I’m glad it’s optional for the meta achievement but it’s really just an embodiment of everything I hate about jumping puzzles, with the added annoyance of being timed. I don’t like jumping puzzles in an online game because accounting for latency is just annoying, and the camera in this game already is a pain more than it’s a help, adding a timed jumping puzzle on top of it is just spitting in my eye more less.
The fact it’s yet another event that supposedly drops really cool stuff I’ll never actually get still bothers me, but I accepted I’m never gonna get lucky enough in terms of drops for any facet of the game. The rest of the events were at least just RNG bad luck, this just feels like your puzzle designer doesn’t actually know how things actually behave in the game proper(like the camera), or he hates everyone.
Also just as an edit I think the worst part is that forced wait at the start on the gear, at least without that knowing what to do I could build some sort of lead to give me a buffer during the unknown parts, but that delay just kills it.
(edited by Kaon Lowe.7218)