Guild Wars 2

Original post:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Dec-10th-Balance-Preview/page/17#post3138694

Cogbyrn.7283:

I can understand your passion, but I don’t think you’re being particularly fair in your analysis. In short, just because you notice a synergy and appreciate its elegance doesn’t mean the synergy is balanced.

Taking your example, perhaps you should have to spend more than 30 trait points to guarantee an Eviscerate crit. I’ve seen how hard Eviscerate hits, and pressing something like 3, 4, F1 to do that much damage should be the focus of a build, not just 3/7ths of it. Instead of 0/20/0/10, you’ll just need to go 0/30/0/10. You lose something, yes. But have you stopped to think that maybe you should be losing something?

Personally, I think that’s a neat little synergy that I haven’t used myself, but there are still ways around it. Of course I’m sure it isn’t your only example, but when you find synergies that efficient that provide such good interaction at a cost of only 30 trait points with no real sacrifice, it’s probably time to stop and say “wait, should this be this easy?” I’ve often thought that my build was a little too clean, and now I’ll have to make a choice, and I think that’s a good thing.

There are strong arguments to be made about outlier builds that people run that hinge on these intensely powerful traits at low requirement levels. I get that it will be a bummer for those people, and I think they should be considered. However, it doesn’t affect the fact that traits like UF are quite strong and should probably be at a higher commitment level. If a bunker or support character relies on the 50% crit to do burst damage, there’s already something wrong with this sentence. Why is a bunker/support able to do burst? Because they want to 1v1 someone down? Why should they be able to put on that hat when they’re wearing another? That isn’t to say the support builds for Warriors couldn’t potentially use a bit of love, but is leaving damage potential in for these builds worth the ripple effect it has on other builds that are potentially dominating a meta?

Again, I respect the fact that you’re passionate about it, but sometimes passion can also cloud judgement.

It’s awesome that you’re responding to my earlier post, and I greatly appreciate your insight and opinion, but you looking at exactly the wrong things. Heck, I even warned you about them! I know you mean well, but I literally facedesked just now. As I said previously:

• Avoid getting pinned on that one example, because it’s just the first example I could think of.
• It isn’t about changing a certain trait that appears too powerful. It is about preserving synergies that aren’t the (immediate) objective of the change.

And you seem to do / assume precisely the opposite. I can only assume (hope?) that you didn’t actually read it properly.

You seemed to think I was arguing that Unsuspecting Foe doesn’t need a Nerf. I wasn’t. It could do with a toning down. I even said so. If you’d taken the time to read my actual post, or perhaps if you re-read it, you can see that the point was not that one specific trait change shouldn’t happen. The point was that:

It would be nice, when Arenanet changes a skill with the objective of bring a certain build A into line with what they feel is balanced, they wouldn’t inadvertently nerf additional builds / synergies X, Y and Z that they never even considered / knew existed, due to those not being part of the flavour of the month / meta.

I know they’re trying hard, and doing a okay job of it. It’s just that some these balances are making it painfully obvious that they don’t know enough about their own game to balance it. And that’s fine, I guess. They’re excused. But it does mean that when they try, there’s a good chance of it being a punch in the guts for the player-base who do actually care enough to think things through.

You said you think the warrior example is a neat little synergy, but you’d never even thought of using it. That speaks volumes to me. It’s not being abused, or even used a lot. Why would it have to disappear? It’s collateral damage, because just like you, Arenanet never thought of it. Yet they’re destroying it. You don’t see anything wrong with a situation where Arenanet just changes skills without knowing the scope of the outcome? Because I do.

That right there is my point. They don’t know enough about their own game to balance it.

At risk of being swamped in the mass of elaborate replies:

My main concern with these balance changes is that I don’t think there is enough thorough thought being put into them. I’ll pick one example, but there’s are many, so don’t get bogged down on just this one:

• Arms IV – Unsuspecting Foe. Moved to Master Tier.
• Arms VII – Crack Shot. Moved to Adept Tier.

This is one of the changes for warrior. Whoever came up with this at Arenanet, probably argued the following:

It’s too easy for flavour of the month stun-spam warriors to achieve 50% crit damage. bump up to master to make it harder for them to pick up, forcing more of a choice between damage and control.

That’s correct, no doubt about it. But what example Arenanet balance person X probably never realized, is that:

Moving this trait will unhinge a number of builds that rely on the synergy between this trait, the 20-point arms trait Opportunist, and for instance, leg specialist to maintain fury and guarantee 100% critical hit chance on Eviscerates after shieldbash.

To me, and likely others as well, a constructed synergy like that ^ is what making a great build is all about. A real work of art. And it just stopped being viable, because someone at Arenanet is unable or unwilling to look past the bend on these changes.

You could very simply preserve a synergy like that, by not moving Crack Shot, but moving Opportunist to the Adept tier. Your initial goal for the change will be intact, and you won’t have destroyed a number of builds in the process.

Intended or not, when you create a game that builds on synergies, you can’t just forget about those synergies because it’s more convenient when whipping up a quick rebalance. It’s taking the complexity and diversity out of the game.

So please, for the love of god, and for the good of the game, could you appoint or consult someone who plays GuildWars 2 before just putting these things on paper. Preferably someone with a decent grasp of the way different mechanics mesh together.

No offense or incitation intended. This is just something I feel passionately about. And I really really wish Arenanet would too.