Showing Posts For Krazed.7458:
Also, are we forgetting that our second run of the day (30 tokens) is still giving the same reward as our first run from before this system? 90 tokens in 2 runs, as compared to 50 from before? What is there to complain about besides some people unfairly getting hit with DR even though they shouldn’t, and THAT will be fixed.
Guildie gets 15 tokens first run, 5 next run, 0 for anything after. 20 for 2 runs, that’s far below pre-patch. Not everyone is having the same problems, some are even more screwed than most of us, which is amazing.
Most games don’t have a PTR AT launch. Also, you’re all nuts if you think a lockout system is better than this. You’re assuming a lockout system would be bug free. What would you do if the lockout system bugged out and wouldn’t let you in every couple of days? The issue is not the system.
So your argument is that ANet is so incompetent they couldn’t code a lockout system correctly? That’s disturbing.
(edited by Krazed.7458)
wake up mid morning in the AM, HMM I WANNA DO ME A DUNGEON!
!!
“HEY GUYS LFG AWESOME DUNGEON!”
receive/accept invite – do dungeon, collect yourself 60 badges.
“HEY GUYS LETS DO THAT AGAIN!!!”
This instance resets in 23 hours, 28 minutes, 32 seconds.Is that the system you’d prefer? And maybe while we’re at it we can cap the number of badges you can obtain weekly too. The current and even previous systems were more generous and better than other games. Shush up before you get that put into this one.
I would take lockouts over the system in place right now, as it currently works. I would be able to get 480 tokens a day, 60 from each dungeon, and I would be immensely happy with that. As it stands now I can get 155.
Jon made a post above this which states their intentions clearly.
Their intentions are not what’s in-game right now.
Around 45 silver (after selling drops) for a 45 minute run (you don’t want to ‘speed clear’ it) is good money for you? That’s kinda depressing.
Plain and simple this system is a safety net for stopping crazy farming when people find exploits that make each run super fast. We are also addressing those loopholes, but that takes time and new ones might always be discovered. If you and your group do the dungeons without skipping large sections and run different chains this system shoul(bugs aside) never impact you.
Addendum for clarity, super fast means < 30 minutes, and even then you must hit that speed multiple times in a row before you start seeing any impact.
Thanks for the reply Jon, and thanks for giving a time. However, my group just did a legit maggs run and a legit AC path 2 run in 25 minutes each. Of course with the bug we all got different rewards but i will post that in the proper forum with times.
They were not death free runs and we didn’t feel like we did them as fast as we could have, so when we bring our “A” game we will basically be waiting in front of the last boss room for 10 minutes to make sure we get full rewards….not fun. But, I guess if the system starts to work like you hope and it takes multiple sub 30 minute runs in a row we should be fine.
I will also be posting links to the 2 runs we just did(as soon as they are uploaded) to prove we did them legit.
Thanks and i hope a fix is on its way soon.
Thank you this is excellent info. We would like dungeons to be legit hard enough to take closer to 45 mins but if we can’t accomplish that goal we can look at the speed clear times from non exploiters and easily adjust the system. The goal is that hardcore farmers don’t even see this thing but only exploiters. We will keep working towards that goal.
Jon
Jon, I came up with an idea that rewards people of skill.
It works like this:
You start an explore dungeon with 360 possible tokens you can get for the run.
Each death = -5 tokens.
At the beginning of each dungeon, there is a dynamic event that starts. This represents the path you’ve chosen and the percentage of it’s completion dictates how much of the 360 tokens you get at the end of the dungeon.
So, if I skip trash I don’t fulfill the event to it’s completion, therefore I don’t get the full 360 tokens. If I die a lot, again, I lose my rewards as I go through.
When you get to a boss, lets say the first one and you’ve completed 15% of the dungeon with one death, you’d get the full 15% of your tokens -5 for the death. So this way, if people need to leave, they can and aren’t penalized for real life.
If you’re able to complete a dungeon without any deaths, 100% and within a time frame, you get an achievement. Completing all paths + story mode with this achievement would award you a weapon of choice for that dungeon.
See, you’re rewarded for being skilled.
You’re encouraged to repeat the content.
You’re penalized for skipping.
Recoding this would take years.
It’s not just the dungeon armor. There’s a bug with CoF atm, you can clear in in 2-3 minutes. That’s 500 silver per hour. This would seriously ruin the economy for a long time.
See, that’s the problem. They’re addressing the wrong problem entirely by trying to limit dungeon tokens. People running dungeons for tokens are not the problem. People running dungeons for money is the problem.
1.) Dungeons do not give silver
2.) Dying in dungeons does not require repairs
3.) Anything bought with dungeon tokens in unsellable/cannot be salvaged
Problem solved. And it has the upside of not pissing off half your player base.
You’re missing the point, the grieving being done is not the pvp in the puzzles its the blocking of choke points with out of range siege weapons.
If this is the issue than I completely agree it needs to be fixed.
However, arrow carts DO have a limited range and a minimum range and can only fire so fast. If you have enough people and you actually run through instead of standing in the AoE trying to attack the arrow carts you should be able to get up to the person firing it.
I would like to see you ‘run through’ the chandelier puzzle while being in combat the entire time. I’m fairly certain it’s impossible. And I don’t mean difficult. I mean literally impossible to make some of those jumps with the decreased movement speed of being in combat.
Have some kittening patience, have you any idea how kittening hard it is to fix a bug? Yes this is unfortunate, but the people experiencing reward problems are only a very small minority hence it didn’t come forward in their local tests. (read the stickies)
I have the DR bug too, but I’m patient because I don’t expect it to be fixed in any short period of time. Sure, it’s frustrating only getting 6 tokens. Just think of kittens.
I have no professional experience with programming. I have no idea how hard it is to fix a bug.
But here’s a thought: Highlight everything having to do with DR… and hit delete. This could be done in 3 minutes.
It doesn’t work. Start over. Write something that works, actually test it, and then put it in the game.
And the side effect to this is what? For a couple of days, maybe, it’s easier for people to buy dungeon armor… wow, that’s a hardship, let me tell you.
(edited by Krazed.7458)
I acknowledge that preventing enemy players from reaching the chest is a viable strategy in WvWvW.
You are still an kittenfor doing it.
5) The DR system is unfortunately bugged, causing players to be affected even when they are playing normally. They have isolated and fixed at least one bug, and the system is undergoing internal testing currently. In other words, the system is not working as intended. Please stop acting like it is.
So because they admit it’s broken we shouldn’t complain? This makes no sense. I will complain up until the point they fix it because it is directly affecting my ability to have fun while playing the game.
1) The ideal rewards are 60 tokens for the first run of each path on each day (determined by a universal reset time on entrance), 20 tokens on each repeat of that path on the same day, and a sum of silver and exp.
And again, it’s not working this way right now. When it works this way I’ll stop complaining.
2) Dungeons are supposed to be tuned such that even the best teams find it very hard if not impossible to complete in less than 30 minutes, if done correctly (without exploits, in other words).
There are at least half a dozen exploration paths that my guild group can do in under 30 minutes, and that’s without exploits. Anything in AC, versions of HotW, TA, SE, CoF. Should we be punished because we’re better geared, more organized, whatever than most people?
3) Diminishing Returns should affect the standard rewards when one or both of two conditions are true:
A: You run the same path back-to-back within the same reset period (possibly with a small allowance of runs)
B: You have several consecutive runs of less than 30 minutes, ignoring reset periods.
Again, not working this way right now. My group runs the same 4 dungeons every day. Those 4 paths are different variations of AC and one of HotW. We find these particular 4 paths fun to do, so we do them. 2-3 people in the group get full credit for each path (240 tokens). The rest get some lesser amount. So even within the same group the DR system is not working. If it was punishing us for running the dungeons too fast it would be punishing everyone, but it isn’t. The notion that there is one thing wrong with the DR coding is complete horsekitten.
4) The DR mechanic is not meant to punish players, except those that choose to farm one easy path over and over in a small time period or use bugged mechanics to finish dungeons significantly faster than expected, the second of which is against the Rules of Conduct and thus, strictly speaking, should lead to a suspension or ban (Yes, it’s bugged. No, that does not give you the right to exploit it. You legally agreed not to when you started playing).
I do not exploit dungeons. I complete dungeons in less than 30 minutes. I am punished for this under the rules of the DR system. How is this fair?
ANet admits there is an error in their coding. They are working to fix it. I understand that and I hope that they find out what is wrong and fix it as soon as possible. But the idea that they are fixing something at some later time does nothing to help those being affected now. It has become increasingly more difficult to find dungeon groups over the past few days. Part of this is because of the WoW expansion, Borderlands 2, and other games being released. Another part of it is purely based on the malfunctioning DR system.
When they fix it, I’ll stop complaining. Until then, they’ll hear about it every single day.
Another day, another loss of tokens.
AC 1- 18 minutes, 60 tokens for everyone
AC 2- Immediately after, 22 minutes, 45 tokens for 2, 60 tokens for 3
AC 3- 5 minutes later, 30 minutes, 30 tokens for 2, 60 tokens for 3
HotW- 10 minutes later, 31 minutes, 15 tokens for 2, 45 tokens for 1, 60 tokens for 2
This was with the SAME GROUP for all 4 runs. 3 members got shafted and lost out on a total 195 tokens and the rest didn’t. Additionally, the only way to make these runs longer for our group is if we go AFK at some point. We killed every single mob, every boss in all 3 paths. What does Anet want us to do, run it with white weapons so we slow down?
The three who got less had not run anything else today. We did the same 4 runs yesterday with the exact same outcome. Seems Anet is just randomly coding some people to get less, and if you get stuck with that flag you’re screwed.
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getting 5 tokens lOL
2nd run after like 4 hours
so how does this anti farming coding works ?
It doesn’t.
My dungeon experience last night:
(1) Sit in Lion’s Arch saying in /map, “Level 80 LFG for any dungeon”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~number/difficulty of bosses defeated once he/she was in the group … but he/she received the full number of tokens for “completing” the dungeon path*They could just make it so you can’t kick people in dungeons unless they are offline.
And then people would troll groups. Some people deserved to be kicked from a party.
I’ve done 4 dungeon runs, so in total 20 separate rewards, 19 of them were correct.
I’m happy for you. Your experience is not shared by almost half the player base. That’s a major issue.
The answer is right in the post you quoted. It’s a bug.
And it is just a few players. The people who get affected are much more vocal and have a much higher chance of posting in the forums and talk/complain about it in chat. Anecdotal evidence isn’t exactly valid. Of the people I ran with, 3 got full rewards and 2 (including myself) did not.
So 2 out of 5. That’s 40%. Almost half the game’s population.
…. Rare case?
More like happening with every other person I’ve talked to..
Every other person. That’s half.
What was your point again?
- Honor of the Waves.
—> Ran story to unlock (so could not have run exp ever before)
Not true, actually. You cannot open an instance you haven’t completed on story mode, true. But a group member can open the instance and you can enter.
So you say you don’t want us speed clearing, then you only give us rewards on completion. Do you not see the contradiction there? You honestly think people are going to fight bosses they don’t have to for the 3 blues they’re likely to get from a chest?
Yesterday, after daily reset. Had run all 3 ACs the day before but, as I said, after the daily reset we went in.
AC 1 – 60
AC 2 – 45
AC 3 – 30
HotW 2 – 15
All runs were over 30 minutes.
Now Arah its impossible..
How is it impossible?
Or if you want the legendary staff?
Hrm, my Gift requirements are off. I should really update that. Still, Bifrost has the same stats as a Mystic Staff. I guess if you really want rainbows that badly you’re willing to run it a couple times.
Arah has only 2 real problems.
1.) It’s the AC of end-game. Remember when you first hit 30 and tried to do AC? I do, and I remember getting crushed. No one really knew how to use their abilities in a group setting yet, and it was painful. Arah is like that, but at 80. It requires a completely different level of communication and cooperation than any dungeon before it.
2.) People feel the need to do it. As the highest level dungeon, people feel they are required to run it. Problem is, there’s not really a reason to. Unless you really like the way the armor/weapons look or really want the legendary spear (do you think it’s a coincidence the legendary requiring tokens from Arah is one most people absolutely don’t care about?), there’s no reason to run the dungeon on anything but story. Oh, unless you want all the exploration achievements, maybe.
Arah is hard. Let me say that again. Arah is hard. It’s meant to be. It’s meant to require full exotics, a well balanced team with members switching skill as the fight demands, who are on a voice chat system and can communicate with each other. There’s also almost no reason to run it. So unless you you’re willing to put in the effort and/or especially like pain, stay away.
(edited by Moderator)
Two ideas, fairly simple to implement, that might make these systems a lot easier to deal with in-game.
1. Change the color of the dot for a player when he/she is downed. As it stands now all dots remain the same light blue color, and it would make it exponentially easier to identify who is downed if theirs turned, say, red.
2. Put a big red cancel (circle with a line through it) sign on someone who’s dead. Maybe it’s just me, but I have a hard time identifying someone who is actually dead because the greyed out color of their portrait isn’t easily recognizable.