Guild Wars 2

So I’m working to get The Juggernaut, and I just completed the first crafting achievement and got the Chest of the Colossal. I then saw the recipe from the box said the requirements for it were 450 of Artificing, 450 of Weaponsmithing, and 450 Huntsman. I assumed this meant that this recipe would work for any of these disciplines, and consumed the recipe. I then saw I could only craft the legendary inscription on my elementalist’s artificing skill and couldn’t find anything else new. I then looked up on the wiki and confirmed by activating weaponsmithing that I could only make experimental hammer stuff at 450 weaponsmithing, which my elementalist does not have.

The description of the recipe is misleading due to it containing multiple actual recipes, and the legendary inscription being one that can be made by any of the 3 weapon disciplines.

My warrior has cover 450 Weaponsmithing, so I would very much like if I could get the recipe back.

Xehanort.7034:

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

Hey everyone, I have an update regarding the availability of raids.

Due to the issues we experienced yesterday with the Enhance Squad UI and with further internal discussion, we have made the very difficult decision to keep raids turned off for the remainder of the beta weekend.

We are continuing to investigate the issues and also looking into options that would allow us to get more testing on these features before we release.

We thank you for your patience and understanding.

honestly speaking, why does this not surprise me?

Because it’s a beta, and the whole point of it is to find issues like this before launch.

The “Toss Elixir H” skill tooltip : Toss Elixir B at a location, granting stability and one of the following boons to allies: fury, might, retaliation, or swiftness.

While I have the HGH trait on, this ability gives me an additional might stack every time. I throw it at my feet and I always get 5 Stability stacks (normal), 3 might stacks, and one of the listed boons (sometimes resulting in 4 stacks of might on this ability alone)

I don’t know if this is just an outdated tooltip, but when HGH is off the ability functions as the tooltip says (only giving me 5 stacks of stability and one random boom that is sometimes only 1 might stack).

Stephanie Harper.5103:

Alex.9268:

It’s now officially april 16th.kittenanet.

Try to understand. Try REALLY HARD.

Arena Net is in EST. GMT -5:00. They said it would be out on the 15th. That is /IN THEIR TIME ZONE/.

I know it’s a phenomenally hard concept that it’s not the same time everywhere on the planet at the same time, and that the company is going to use the time /they’re in/. But I’m sure you can understand if you REALLY try.

ArenaNet is in PST, your condescending tone now makes you look like a fool. Fact check next time.

Kurrilino.2706:

yeah yeah yeah….
the usual go and play something else argument….

You must understand, this is very much an issue of: You probably won’t like the game because of the very core of its mechanics and the genre of the game.

You also need to make your criticisms more clear in your OP to get your message across faster. You must also try to not seem so vitriolic over some of these issues. You got way too worked up over the Bobbleheads thing.

And finally, you need to be aware that Anet actually have shown themselves to be more self-aware and honest with themselves than most other devs. Any problem you have with the game is probably on a list at Anet’s offices under “to be fixed.” The problem is the concept of priority and cost vs reward. They have many different teams working on separate aspects of the game as well. The people who put together the Wardrobe are the team made to make things like that more streamlined and smooth, like they did with the wallet. Features like the wardrobe don’t have the full force of every Anet employee at its back and teams cannot just transfer more manpower to another team because they are often using wholly different skills.

P.S.: Here’s something that Anet’s business model allows you to do, which I have utilized a bit: Drop the game for a while, keep an eye on it, and return when it becomes interesting again.

Psychol.5783:

I ignored some of these LS events and I have a feeling of being behind. Since yesterday I have an urge to do some SAB and get skins since there will be a wardrobe but NOPE – I wasn’t a no-life so no skins or titles for me because I wasn’t playing this game when Anet wanted so kitten me right? This temporary bullkitten is uneccessary and illogical, but they gonna wake up as always but little too late.

Yeah, but if it was open to you all the time then you wouldn’t really care. Now you look at people with SAB items with burning jealousy and those people get to flaunt something that is something actually worth flaunting. You had your chance and you let it slip, I lost my chance to get the gas mask but I can move on. By the way, you had nearly a months worth of time since there were 2 SAB patches in total. The temporary nature of the living story is something that should stay, or the world will be wholly static, which the the antithesis of their goal.

Dustfinger.9510:

Kurodius.7463:

Can you provide a link for this confirmation? I would be wholly satisfied with this answer if you would.

it was in early interviews. Sadly the links are no longer working. Hopefully they were saved in the official wiki somewhere :/.

edit: so far all I found that was saved is that they have the appropriate bits and can’t reproduce. I will continue looking.

“Physically, sylvari are male or female, and the relevant external biology is accurate on both, but they cannot sexually reproduce as the other races do; they have no internal organs capable of creating children.” http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dream_and_Nightmare

edit 2: here’s another reference to sylvari sexuality:
“Sexuality is simply a natural part of life, and so long as it is entered into with good will and joy, the gender doesn’t make a difference.”
http://gaygamer.net/2011/10/interview_guild_war_2s_ree_soe.html

We see that the term “sexuality” here isn’t used as a synonym for gender because it is being compared and contrasted to gender.

edit 3: confirmation of what sylvari limbs are made up of:

“In exploring the anatomy, you can see a lot of different details. The forearms, for example, are not a human arm with leaves tacked on top, but rather a shape created by many stem tendons and long leaves coiling around one another to create the structure. The faces of the sylvari are not restricted by the anatomy of the skull as a human would, but are created by layers upon layers of plant materials that press together, forming the illusion of anatomy. On the outside, they are beautiful and elegant. Looking closer, you’ll see how different they really are.”
http://www.talktyria.net/2011/08/11/sylvari-lore-interview-with-ree-soesbee-kristen-perry/

Ok cool, question answered.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Kurodius.7463:

lioka qiao.8734:

LS should take a page from Tolken and George Lucas…

Please don’t compare George Lucas to Tolken. Tolken doesn’t deserve that abuse.

. . . George Lucas is not as much of a hack as people want to hang on him. He just needs someone to collaborate with who is willing to get him to tone down and hone his vision of a story.

George Lucas is enough of a hack that he needs a bunch of people who need to tell him when his ideas are bad and make up better ideas than him. The Star Wars prequels are as bad as they are because nobody questioned Lucas.

Dustfinger.9510:

A-net has confirmed that sylvari are sexually active but lack the approrite organs to reproduce. Like all sylvari limbs, their “sexual organs” are simply imitations of human sexual organs made from plant pettles/stems/leaves/bark/vines/etc. wrapped to form a shape that produces a similar physical function. they look and operate similarly without he reproductive aspect.

Can you provide a link for this confirmation? I would be wholly satisfied with this answer if you would.

lioka qiao.8734:

LS should take a page from Tolken and George Lucas…

Please don’t compare George Lucas to Tolken. Tolken doesn’t deserve that abuse.

Kurrilino.2706:

-Arena Net promised you can be a real Hero….
“What they delivered”…
They made it impossible to be a hero, they took any tanking ability or game plan even tactics out of the game. While you have trouble to scratch the armor of regular Veterans they cut through your elite ascended armor like butter.
The only thing you can do is to hide in big mops and zerg it down.
This istakes something really important away from me. Be an individual who can change and impact a village or the faith and live of weak citizen who are in need of help.
You are incredible meaningless to the whole world, maps, even villages.

I want real heros, i don’t want to be a zerker…… i want to use skill and being smart to handle things……

I want to scream ……….. We don’t ask how many…. we ask Where… roooaaarrrrrrr…

First of all, calm down.

In story, your character can participate in actions that could be called heroic in the game world in a number of ways. There are actually many places in the game that require tactics, and Anet have made a conscious effort to make world event bosses require coordination since the Tequatl update.

Veterans are usually very easy to kill, and there are some people that actually pride themselves on being able to take out champion class enemies by themselves.

The issue you state about impact on the world is something that is a problem with an MMO in general. One player cannot make sweeping changes to the game world. In the Personal story, the player character actually does affect other characters in many ways. Traherne in particular changes from a historian to a general because of the PC’s influence on the personal story, while this path is not personalized for everyone, your character is affecting a character.

There are also many situations where the player can have “hero moments” with other players. Being the only one up at the end of the boss fight, having fought tooth and nail to get the last bit of the boss down before needing to start all over again. Managing to make that last leap in a pvp match that allows a neck and neck match to become a victory. Finding a player attempting an event alone and failing, saving them, and help them push along the event into success.

This game actually does have a pretty high skill-cap for an MMO due to its very well structured combat. There are reasons why people do not drop in a boss fight or win in PvP.

Kurrilino.2706:

So and now answer me one thing:
How is creating a different server, offering more dyes, removing more armor, having bobble heads, inviting more zergs like Tequatle fixing this ??
How is this even considered as something they should care about before even touching the important parts.

The Ultra Server thing is for the sake of making areas outside of major cities to become more populated and active.

The Dyes and Wardrobe are for the sake of making visual character customization easier and more streamlined, which is a welcome change.

Bobbleheads are a very easily created feature that probably took less than an hour or two for one guy to implement.

Tequatl can hardly be called a zerg at the moment, and the Marionette and Jungle Worm fights required coordination to be completed. Bosses like these are put in place to give players world content that actually has difficulty and requires more than just a specific number of people hacking away at the feet of a big monster.

And the reason why these things are addressed is because they are easier to fix than the supposed issues you presented, which are more problems with the structure of MMOs in general. Some issues with the game would require them to remake large swaths of the game entirely to fix.

Kurrilino.2706:

This is exactly the situation right now here in GW2.
I really love the game from GW1 on and i simply don’t want to move to the neighbor building. I am just incredible unhappy how A-Net is destroying this wonderful concept and the chance to create something new and epic.

Guild Wars 2 is structurally different from Guild Wars 1 in a large number of ways. I would even argue that Guild Wars 1 is not an MMO due to how instanced off the world is. Guild Wars 1 is more like an RPG and is made to be more of a solo experience than Guild Wars 2 is. You might just not like MMOs, well then I have a large list of other RPGs you could play that have well constructed story and gameplay that may be more to your liking. I and many other people find the game has not yet lived up to its potential, but it might get there if given enough time; that is one of the boons of an MMO, they can change A LOT over time.

Kurrilino.2706:

Most people mistake creative criticism for just dumb ranting without even seeing my point.

You made no point about the game other than your distaste for what is in place, distaste for where the focus of the feature patch is, and then talked about how much you loved the first game. You made no point to explain your views until now. Also the phrase you’re looking for is “constructive criticism,” not “creative.”

Kurrilino.2706:

- Anet promised a living world where your character means something with dynamic
events etc…
“What did they deliver”…..
Absolute static missions like go there collect that or go there and kill it…
Just because finishing one leading to trigger another one isn’t dynamic in any meanings.

The systems in place are comparatively more dynamic than most of Guild Wars 2’s contemporaries or predecessors. The world evens happen on internal timers that are not tied down to an exclamation point over npc’s heads. It is dynamic in this respect, and new events are added often to the game.

Kurrilino.2706:

-Anet promised ever changing worlds where no day is like the other and your choices will change the world, they even have it in their commercial videos.
“What did they deliver”….
This is borderline false advertisement. Not a single choice is to make for anyone.
Even made choices are absolutely irrelevant for even a small map.
Exemple: It really doesn’t matter you go to war against Centaurs in Kessex Hill.
You conquer an Outpost or village or whatever, 10 minutes later it’s reset to whatever it has been before. It is incredible useless you even help the people in Kessex Hill because 10 minutes later they awake being a slave in a camp again……
Another example ???? Here we go… Zaithan is killed by absoltely everyone. Of course they are the exact same zombies in exact same numbers and exact same strenght running around even without their main source of power….

While I too am unsatisfied by the amount the player has in the world, they actually do deliver on this promise in some respect. Your choices do cause temporary changes for the most part, and can affect other parts of the game world. If you get some people together and go through the events to open up the Citadel of Flame or Crucible of Eternity, then everyone on your server and anyone in their group can then make use of the dungeon due to your efforts. We also had the election which did give players the ability to make a decision that actually affected the world and lore. Ellen Keil is now the newest member of the captains council of Lion’s Arch, and the players chose that outcome. You can hardly call that false advertising, embellishment yes, but not false.

Zylonite.5913:

It could be just me but I am again enjoying the game as when I started GW2, rather than logging in everyday to get the Living story achievement and complete the grind; then log off and go vomit….Somehow the game is enjoyable again…

You were never forced to participate in the Living Story, you could have easily made the choice to ignore a patch, as I have a number of times. If anything you are just excited over the Feature Pack because they are making a lot of really good mechanic adjustments, which is something the Living Story was not very heavy with.

Xyvol.1265:

My understanding is that they don’t. They do have feelings for others, but it’s mentally based rather than physical. More about emotion and romance than physical attraction. The race is only a resemblance of the humanoid form, they have no sexual organs and so don’t have that drive. They may be compelled to seek out a partner for companionship, or enter a relationship with someone who is very alike in mind and personality, but since sex is not an issue then neither is gender. This is the viewpoint I’ve gathered from in-game as well as official online writings. I’m working on the books, so I’ll keep an eye out for anything mentioned there.

The question about incest is an interesting one, I guess it depends on your view point. According to the societal rules we have now, then yes. But life has to start somewhere, and after many generations they would be just like humans in that regard. We don’t have to worry about this question though, since they can’t reproduce.

I wish I could find the quote, but I actually do remember a line of dialogue in game about a male Sylvari “hitting on” a female. This kind of behavior does present the idea that there could be some level of physical attraction between Sylvari.

I would also like to bring up that when Sylvari have no cloths, they have leaves covering areas that would have genitalia or nipples on the female.. Anet could have easily just had those be empty spaces (barbie doll anatomy) and maintain the age rating, but they specifically chose to have the leaves as cover. I just find this is something of note.

I have been without a guild for some time, I was part of a rather substantial one, but a reprieve from the game has earned my dismissal.

I am looking for a Guild of Adequate size (not a group of 4 friends inviting everyone they can, or startup guilds that will eventually start doing things). Hopefully this guild would allow me to remain a member if my attendance declines.

I primarily involve myself in Constructed PVP, in play and theory crafting. I also play on the PVE side of the game occasionally for dungeons, Living Story, and occasional urges to level up an alt or see branches of the Personal Story. I take no part in WvW, and I have not found a taste for it so please don’t expect me to.

I am well acquainted with Guild Wars 2’s mechanics, and for what it’s worth I have been playing MMOs since the mid 2000s. I was primarily a raider in prior games, but Guild Wars 2’s PvP has held my interest better than the PvE.

I can be arrogant at times, but I try to remain civil in most circumstances.

Also, if you want to know my character list is as follows:

Chromidius, Elementalist, Level: 80

Azradar, Engineer, Level: 80

Venarus Torani, Ranger, Level: 80

Kurodius, Necromancer, Level: 80

Benjamin Edgar, Guardian, Level: Low 30s

Zannarus, Mesmer, Level: 22

Atrax Duststorm, Thief, Level: 32

Maulzarick, Warrior, Level 20

Let me know if any further information would be needed and I will try to respond in a timely manner.

I searched the forums, and I can’t seem to find another post about this, so I’ll just have to ask.

Sylvari in the game often speak of love for one-another and talk of their beloved. To me this beings up a number of questions about Sylvari culture and anatomy, which I find is actually essential in understanding the romantic psychology of this race.

Are Sylvari sexual beings? Do they actually seek out other beings due to a physical attraction, or is it all emotional(/spiritual?)? If they are sexual beings, then what biological purpose would that serve when the Sylvari reproduce from a matriarchal being? On that note, would any kind of sexual attraction between Sylvari be a from of incest?

Please note that I do not ask these questions to make some kind of deranged fanfic more legitimate or anything like that. I simply want to better understand the psychological aspects of the Sylvari as a race., especially when they have shown signs of being romantically involved in some way. Sex affects humans in that it influences our behavior, culture, and psychology, so I simply want to know if Sylvari have the thing driving them in a similar way.

Please try to keep this conversation as mature as you can.

OP is brilliant. I am more than enthused by not only this very well written and displayed post, but also the response it has received from the devs. The follow up that OP did is also a fantastic assessment of the most significant problems with the Living Story. If future releases of the story really take note of this, then I think I would enjoy season 2 of the Living Story much more.

I might even say this post has made me feel a level of anticipation that I have not yet felt for the next Living Story update.

Kurrilino.2706:

Dear A-Net……
I followed the new build block very carefully day by day. and i have to say i don’t know what to say.
This game lacks so much in quality, in story, in skill actually in everything but graphics.
With all that present you guys care about a wardrope to change armors and dyes ??
You main focus is to build a “Mega-Server” ??? Amor repairing cost nothing anymore ?
Bobble head for April jokes ??

Serious ??

What about you guys start caring in presenting a fine and interesting product ?
I couldn’t care less that they guys on my map are interested in same game experience or behavior…. I couldn’t care less my armor is adapting to whatever i unlocked….
really…..

Bring back the charm and excitement back that made GW1 to awesome.
After that you can care about having 247 more grey shade dyes or moving 12 trees
in Claypool.

I just hope you guys are forced to all that by your investors….
everything else would be a huge disappointment and kitten the sould of all your loyal GW1 players

I’m sorry, but I believe you are mistaken. I would say that Guild Wars 2 is an all around better put together game than Guild Wars 1. If you don’t think Guild Wars 2 lived up to expectations, then I have no issue with that whatsoever. I am let down by Guild Wars 2 in a great number of ways, but I still enjoy it enough to come back.

I’m afraid that you are looking through some thickly rose-tinted glasses when looking at Guild Wars 1.

Also, complaining about a really small and easy feature like Bobbleheads on April fools, (which would be quite easy to do) just seems somewhat petty.

It would serve you FAR better to explain the aspects of the game that you say “lack in quality.” Right now your entire post could be summed up easily as: “The feature pack stuff is dumb, this game sucks, fix it now. Guild Wars 1 was better.” Which is not the foundation of a productive conversation.

edit: Seems the quote bugged out during posting, please disregard.

Zaxares.5419:

I do see what the OP is saying, and I do think that the LS could have been so much more, but at the same time, I do like the Biconics, and so I’m satisfied with the LS for the simple reason that I now count Rox, Braham, Kasmeer, Marjory and Taimi among my character’s friends. I feel more connected to them than I ever was to Destiny’s Edge or even your Order mentors.

I find it very difficult to get invested with the characters of the Living Story due to issues with its pacing. I cannot see a character as my player’s friend when interactions with them occur in small windows with, at the shortest, two weeks separating the last time I saw them.

I found it much easier to be invested in the mentors of the orders because my interactions with them were more frequent and fresh in my memory. It is also due to there being actual dialogue between the Player Character and the mentor. The Living Story lacks the Personal Story’s dialogue cutscenes, making interactions with the other characters feel more like the player is just being talked at. The nature of the Living story also makes the Player Character a much more apparent blank variable in the Living Story, rather than an actual character.

I would say the only character involved in the living story that I care about more than slightly is Evon Gnashblade, and that’s only because of the short story Anet put on the site that portrayed how he started the Black Lion Trading Company. I also read the stories about Rox and Braham, but I didn’t care for those as much.

Your suggestion of 1000 a year is quite a bit off, when it seems to give birth to dozens every hour or so.

I just read the story that was posted on flickr (not sure why you put it there instead of the site or anything but whatever). After reading it, I like it quite a bit and found it to be an interesting look at how some of the NPCs reacted to Scarlet’s attack… which brings me to the title of this post.

Why is it that nearly every single short story you produce more engaging, more intriguing, and more satisfying than any story that has been presented in the game thus-far?

I have consistently enjoyed every one of the short stories that have been posted on this site and I have also been consistently underwhelmed/annoyed by the bits of the story I have experienced in-game, and this is coming from someone who hates to read. Why do I find your written material so much more compelling than the story material in the game when I haven’t actually read a book from beginning to end in over 10 years? What is the cause of this incredible disconnect from what is written on paper to what we actually see in-game?

Anet you clearly have the ability to make incredible story content, and you have an amazing lore at your disposal as well, why not utilize these assets in-game?

The Living Story is a fairly ambitious idea with an insanely fast release schedule (2 weeks). Each new chapter of the living story so far has felt like a build up to something greater coming next patch. The content of each patch is serviceable, but story content is often not enough to satisfy. It seems like ArenaNet have been working to utilize the Living Story to their fullest, but so far have not been able to reach what they have been striving for. The mechanics of each patch vary, but are for the most part effective in making players invest more time in the game with new content.

The greatest weakness of the Living Story so-far has been characterization and story development. Characters presented in the story are somewhat likable, but there is never any time dedicated to simply develop the characters. Every interaction with the story npcs is either spent fighting with little to no dialogue or exposition dumps. This means we never get any fluid progressions into emotional scenes with the characters that would allow us to really connect with the characters, without it feeling like a sudden shot out of the dark (namely the back story of Kasmeer happening in a very short story instance). The story develops as I described in the beginning, it always feels like it is building up to something even more spectacular in the future, which has become daunting after a whole year of buildup. The story never takes much time to take advantage of the lore of the game, making investing yourself into that lore relatively pointless at the moment. For the past year, we have had the story progress as such:

Bad things happen(but it’s just preparation for something even worse) > more bad things happen > even more bad things happen > holiday/adventure box release, sunshine and happiness to everyone > the worst things yet happen (but there are still even worse things to come later)

All of this contains some mysteries that are promptly answered with less than satisfactory answers. Who is the one uniting factions to destroy Tyria? Oh, some Sylvari lady that no one has ever heard of. Why is she being all evil and stuff? Oh, she’s just corrupted by an Elder dragon and a little cuckoo for cocoa puffs.

There are some mysteries that have not received answers or even that much attention. Why did Tequatl become stronger when Zhitan is dead? Who is E? What was the ghost kid going to say to Marjory? What secret about Caithe did Scarlet know? Why was Ellen Kiel so driven to find out about the Thaumanova Reactor? What are the Steam Creatures, and where did they come from? Will Elementalists become competitive in PvP again? What is Traherne or Destiny’s Edge doing over the course of the story? Why have we not seen any sign of activity from any of the 4 god-like Elder Dragons over the course of an entire year? Where did the human gods go?

tl;dr: Eh, it’s ok, but underwhelming in the story bits.

lorazcyk.8927:

Personally I would prefer to play male spellcasters, but Anet made them ugly in Gw2 :-(

Umm…

I would like to bring up one thing that could make this reveal more satisfying. If we look at the events prior to the game, dragons waking up actually have all had huge effects on the world.

Zhitan’s awakening raised Orr to the surface, Primordus scattered the underground races, Kralkatorrik made the Crystal Scar, Jormag made the Norn flee their homeland and killed about 4 spirits of the wild, and the deep Sea Dragon made the Krait and Quaggan flee their home.

I’m really hoping Mordremoth’s awakening causes a massive cataclysmic event, but I still don’t feel that what we got was any form of payoff to a year’s worth of story and buildup.

I have never found the Mesmer effects to be exactly feminine in nature. Mesmers to me are about trickery, elegance, and showmanship. The butterflies and pink color are both emblematic of these 3 traits. I suppose that in some ways, one could see the mesmer as a feminine class, but I just always looked at them in the same way I would look at a jester/harlequin type character. They cover the battlefield with dancing illusions, then when the time is right, shatter them all at once at once to create a marvelous crescendo.

This patch is totally socialist propaganda who want to destroy traditional Tyrian values. I also think Mike O’ Brian might actually be a secret Muslim.

GIVE US THE REAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE ANET.

Alleluia.1320:

To be fair, epilogue hasn’t happened yet. Maybe Mordremoth “brands” Lion’s Arch then? And we end up with a jungle map there. And that just stays that way till Season 2 starts?

Here’s what I was hoping to happen during this patch:

To me, that would have been an excellent payoff to be given a really climactic moment in which we would lose Lion’s Arch entirety and shake the world as we know it. This reveal would also show Scarlet to be a parallel to the force of the players and the pact, as they shared a common goal. This would also serve to show the caliber of threat we would be dealing with immediately rather than hinting at what might be coming. This would have been a crescendo leading to the next season of the living story, but what we have feels more like the music is still rising.

Vol.7601:

I guess an awakened dragon, which is now the biggest threat in Tyria, isn’t enough of a payoff?

Really, what do you want? Because I think your expectations are widely unrealistic.

So what are the other 4 to you? They are all supposed to be the biggest threat to Tyria, and they haven’t been very active.

lordkrall.7241:

Kurodius.7463:

We have 4 others man, and they’ve been pretty quiet. And the last one also was not too cool in the end. Past experiences kill my hype over a new dragon.

The other four are however not a direct threat to the major races.
While the new one most likely is, due to the closeness to several capitals (and the fact that it is kittened and powered-up.)

I hope the new Dragon actually involves itself with the world more than the other 4, but I’m not expecting it all that much. I honestly expect there to be a somewhat slow chain of events until this dragon even reaches full swing, which would be pretty lame.

I know it might sound kinda silly and childish, but I want cool things now please.

Ashabhi and Blackarps, I’ll respond to you both at the same time.

When I say payoff, I mean I want something of consequence and something that feels like an ending to an arc. As of this moment the villain died unceremoniously, showing herself to be far less interesting than she could have been, and just left us with something “bigger” on the horizon.

The ending of the personal story was a letdown for most people, but it still had a payoff. The Payoff is that Destiny’s Edge was reunited, the races and pacts were united as one, marched up to Zhitan’s door and knocked hard. We boarded a giant Mega Death Ship and blasted Zhitan away. It was not well implemented, but it was conclusive.

The Living story Season 1 does not feel like a season 1 finale to me because it end on giving us something else to deal with, while having nothing else of consequence occur. All key character still live except for Scarlet, LA is being retaken, and nothing has changed beyond just one more dragon to deal with.

Apophis.2498:

Did you not notice that we will have to deal with a new Elder Dragon soon?

We have 4 others man, and they’ve been pretty quiet. And the last one also was not too cool in the end. Past experiences kill my hype over a new dragon.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that part of my reason for not seeing what happened this patch as payoff, is because nothing of consequence happened. Everyone we new is still alive, LA is going to be rebuilt, and the world has lost nothing but a really 2 dimensional villain.

Scarlet’s ending was fairly unsatisfying for me, and I feel there is a lot more Anet could have done to make it a bit more interesting.

Here is my proposed alternate ending to the living story: What if everything Scarlet did was not to simply awaken an elder dragon, but kill one. What if Scarlet was simply hurrying to silence the voices in her head rather than obey them. For Scarlet to be suffering from the dragon’s influence this whole time, but still managing to work against it and attempt to kill it would have revealed Scarlet to be an incredibly strong willed character. She had already shown that she wished for independence from the Pale Tree, so a denial of Elder Dragon control would have been an amazing feat.

This could have lead to a very exciting climax where Scarlet injects the toxins into the dragons and charges her armies at it, but fails. This would also be a way to display the dragon’s great power, as it instantly decimates Scarlet’s forces that we have been fighting for a whole year.

I don’t know about any of you guys, but I feel like the living story has felt like a year of build up to something cooler happening later, and I’m a little tired of waiting.

Some of you may contest that the reveal/awakening of a new dragon is a from of payoff, I would say that it is not. We currently have 4 other dragons running amok, and they haven’t really done much, so 1 more isn’t all that exciting for me.

I was hoping the ending for Scarlet would be a way to get some payoff to this massive buildup, but we just got a “something even more evil and big is on the way” kind of ending for her. Now we sit, waiting for whatever the new dragon will do, and we hope that it’s gonna be super cool.

Also, it was a terrible idea to have Braham say Scarlet’s motivations don’t matter, when her unknown motivations were her most interesting characteristic; but that’s a discussion for another post.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Kurodius.7463:

I ask you two to please bring some quotes of such dialogue for the sake of your arguments.

No. Burden of proof is on the prosecution. Go find proof she’s normally silly and goofy.

But… I’m arguing that she isn’t silly and goofy, or enough for that to be recognized as her main character trait. If i’m arguing for the absence of a trait of Kasmeer, so my evidence would be the entirety of her dialogue. Unless you mean Marjory, in which case I am also arguing for the absence of her serious traits.

Although I did find some dialogue I must have overlooked from Tower of Nightmares between Marjory and Kasmeer, and it actually does seem to be lightly fliratious. Because of this I will retract my statement of the relationship coming from nowhere, because this dialogue is actually somewhat subtle about the nature of their relationship.

The dialogue I found is here, at the bottom of the page: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marjory_Delaqua/dialogue

In-fact I think this dialogue actually proves me wrong on both of my statement,s as this is dialogue where they are actually working off of each other.

Congratulations everyone, I have found proof against my own claims drawing my issues to a close. You guys won.

Ok, I honestly forgot I made this post for a little while, so there is a lot to cover here. Let’s get started.

Tobias Trueflight:
Marjory has not ever come off as a very serious person to me. If anything the “noire” thing they do with her makes it feel like she is someone who finds investigation and detective stuff to be fun, like a child.

Becka Williams:
So saying your ok with the cloths on a mesmer actually being illusions, is a clear declaration of sexual attraction? This still does not solve the problem of their lack of chemistry. Them also having less screen time is no excuse, Anet could have easily just gave us more time to interact with them. This isn’t a 30 minute tv show with a set amount of episodes, it’s a game that can have content added as the dev pleases.

displacedTitan:
You make very little sense in your statements. Forums will speculate that any two characters that interact could be romantically involved, this is an inevitability regardless of how absurd the pairing. What part of this story so-far has needed us to use our brains? This story has been on-rails from the beginning, with plot details repeated over and over for the newcomers. It also wasn’t broken up by months, it has been released on an almost consistent rate of every 2 weeks.

CharrGirl:
No it wasn’t.

Sitkaz:
I also hate “will they, won’t they” relationships in stories with a passion, but this relationship is very forced and contrived from my perspective. I don’t feel like these characters have any chemistry, nor any basis to be in a romantic relationship. Also romantic relationships where 2 characters constantly argue with each other are poorly written and completely unrealistic about how people actually communicate with each other. Can anyone honestly say that their real life relationship was built on the fact that they argue all the time?

Tobias Trueflight, Becka Williams (cont.):
Both of you have proposed that these characters do play off each other by having Marjory being the no-nonsense detective and Kasmeer being lighthearted an playful, and them being able to have chemistry based on an “opposites attract” basis. I have never once found Marjory to be that serious or resolved of a character, nor have I found Kasmeer to be all that lighthearted and playful. Marjory is just looking for Scarlet to stop her from doing bad things, and Kasmeer just seemed to be rolling along with Marjory because it was just something to do. Neither character has expressed more than a hint of the personalities you two have been proposing from my perspective. Also their dialogue has not reflected such character traits in any way to me, and I ask you two to please bring some quotes of such dialogue for the sake of your arguments.

Flirting has little to do with my issues with this relationship. Flirting only really shows sexual attraction, but it doesn’t present the basis of their relationship. These two characters have very little to bond over, they don’t play off each other’s personality in any way.

Braham and Rox are a pair (though I don’t think are romantically involved). They each enjoy combat to some extent and feel that they make a very potent group. They also play off each other’s personalities in their diologue. It makes sense why Braham and Rox would be friends and enjoy each other’s company.

Marjory and Kasmeer are two wholly separate entities with little to no compatibly nor buildup to what would be a romantic relationship.

MegumiAzusa.2918:

Well if you’re saying that the first thing we see is Kasmeer saying she doesn’t want to leave you missed a lot, as it was said before. Not just Majory made advances towards Kasmeer, which actually only started quite recently, but it was the other way around too, because of Majory’s nature it even looked for some time that she didn’t notice Kasmeer’s obvious advances. It also seems you never went to the Dead End bar before this update, at least when it wasn’t required that is.

Well actually, the line about Kasmeer staying at Marjory’s place was in the last update, so that would make the scenario at the Dead End bar happen after that dialogue; but yes, I i did not see that discussion.

Also, you man many others have been telling me that this was obvious from the dialogue prior to Origins of Madness, can I please get some quotes from these dialogues that I apparently missed?

Ok, so there’s not too many people here to respond to, so I can go case-by case with this:

Niels, Randulf:

These character have been working together, but working together does not mean they are romantically involved. The first hint to the relationship being romantic, or anything but professional, was when Marjory asked Kasmeer to stay with her and Kasmeer saying she might never want to leave.

Alissah:

When I say chemistry, i mean they don’t play off eachother’s diologue in any way to suggest an affection for one-another or much of an attraction, their personalities also don’t seem to be compatible with one-another on anything other than co-workers. Chemistry between 2 characters can still be displayed with the limited body language that game can allow, and can be displayed even more so in the dialogue itself.

FlamingFoxx, Dunan Atreides:

2 people working together to complete a common goal, while having mutual respect for one-another is not the same thing as being romantically involved with one-another.

Weindrasi:

Marjory uses slightly flirtatious language with every character she speaks to. She speaks to Kasmeer in basically the same way she addresses everyone else. Also, Lord Faren isn’t the pinnacle of a male specimen, so a female character not being attracted to him does not mean that character is into girls. Even the, her rejection of Lord Faren’s advances has nothing to do with her sudden involvement with Marjory.

P.S.: I have countless other issues with this story and its structure in general, but forced romances just always bugged me more than anything, and this romance just suddenly came out of nowhere to me. It really just seems to me than this relationship is only built upon the mutual respect Marjory and Kasmeer have for eachother’s abilities and nothing else.

I’m wondering if anyone else thinks the sudden romantic relationship between Kasmeer and Marjory to have come out of nowhere.

I didn’t really see it coming, or notice any build up to it until Marjory had Kasmeer stay in her home.

I never really noticed any chemistry between these two characters whatsoever. They don’t seem to have anything they could have bonded over besides the hunt for scarlet.

From my perspective, Marjory apparently put a “help wanted” sign somewhere, Kasmeer happened upon it and started investigating scarlet and the aetherblades, then they worked together to take out the toxic tower, then suddenly are romantically involved.

I know some of you may think “well they probably bonded over something off-screen, we aren’t exactly seeing every moment of their lives.” This doesn’t change the fact that from the players perspective, this relationship just suddenly poofed into existence.

P.S.: Because I know some people are going to bring this up, this has nothing to do with the fact that this is a lesbian relationship.

NOTE: I have found dialogue that I must have overlooked that disproves my claim of the relationship coming from nowhere, and my qualms about their incompatibly have also been quelled. Thanks for reading.

RyuDragnier.9476:

The Jungle Dragon I feel is Nature. Scarlet most definitely works for him in my scenario, as do the Nightmare Court (without realizing it). In said theory, both Scarlet and Faolain are both champions of the Jungle Dragon.

While off topic, this is an interesting subject.

The Pale Tree appears to be related to the nature dragon strongly, and may even be the dragon itself.

I am of the belief that the Pale Tree is a former dragon champion like Glint was. The Nightmare court claim that Ventari’s tablet corrupted the Pale Tree from its true nature.

Regardless of what one believes about the Pale Tree I think this is worth noting:

In the dream, Sylvari players see images of things in the outside world. Nothing in the dream is fabricated, all that one sees in the dream exists or existed at one point in the past. That means that the level one boss for the Sylvari (a large nature dragon) existed in the world at some point or still exists now.

TehPwnerer.7215:

As the first 2 replies indicate, he is in fact dead 100%. They are revamping the in-dungeon fight to give you more of an exciting encounter while also showing that he is in fact dead.

Really a shame. Such potential gone to waste.

If you were to continue reading, you would see that the claim that the devs said he was dead has been disputed and claims they used the term “defeated.”

And as has been said countless times already, that screenshot is the result of a bug. And one more time: Bugs are not cannon.

Please be more observant in the future and be sure to read past the first two replies.

zamalek.2154:

In Arah Explorable: Zhaitan is dead.
In Tyria: Zhaitan is alive.

This is the only way that the temporal stability that ANet strives for actually works. You can’t interact with other PCs in Tyria where you have killed Zhaitan and they haven’t (indeed, even NPCs in some of the dungeons). Therefore at all times assume he is alive, unless you are in Arah explorable or have just killed him in arah story.

Do you know of any specific npcs that specifically mention Zhaitan by name in a way that suggests that they think he is alive?

I know his minions haven’t subsided and that npcs talk about Zhaitan’s minions, I mentioned that in the original post.

I would also like to add one more thing to the theory:

It is very possible that Anet planned Zhaitan’s return from the beginning. He’s the only Elder dragon they could revamp mechanically and have it make sense in the world. They may have known that the Zhaitan fight was not up to par and planned to bring him back once they got a handle on managing the game.

Zeivu.3615:

Tequatl inherited all of Zhaitan’s memories and abilities when he died.

And btw, The dragons can be put down permanently.

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

We did it in GW1, EOTN. Also during the Bazaar of the Four Winds, the people mention Glint’s death. Used to be under the control of the Shatterer

It is clear that dragon champions can be killed, there are numerous accounts of this. and Glint is a dragon champion, not a true elder dragon. Zhaitan, Kralkatorrik, Primordus, Jormag, the 2 mystery ones are the only beings known as elder dragons.

Apolyon.6937:

just in case, a picture of zhaitan corpse…

The model found by breaking out of the story mode’s map can only be viewed through a bug in the game. Bugs are not cannon, nor anything that can be seen as a result of a bug.

This has already been discussed a number of times in this post, and was even added to the initial post as an edit.

Please be more observant in the future.

As pretty much everyone knows by now, the end of the personal story is a final fight with Zhaitan that many people are disappointed with. After defeating Zhaitan, most people thought that the continued presence of the mobs in Orr was just because GW2 is an MMO and they simply wouldn’t change it because of events that transpire in an instanced area. More than a year from release now, there is no change in the presence of Zhaitan’s minions, except for one…

Tequatl is stronger now, and this was said to be cannon, and not just a mechanically revamped encounter.

I was also thinking about the nature of living story content, and I realized that Anet could have easily just removed undead from some areas in the world to show progress from defeating Zhaitan without effecting the personal story, but instead the dragon’s champion is stronger.

The scene in which Zhitan is defeated also simply shows him falling into the abyss. This does not seem like a truly final death scene to me. Zhitan is also the dragon of undeath, something tells me that he cannot be killed as easily as he was.

Here are the important factors to consider in review:

• The presence of the undead has not changed since release.

• Tequatl is canonically stronger, a year after the game’s release and his master’s supposed defeat.

• We do not actually see a truly dead Zhaitan, or have his corpse.

• Zhaitan is the dragon of undeath, and may not be killed simply through battle.

Based on these things, I believe Zhaitan is still alive, and we will fight him again.

Please let me know if I got any information wrong, or if you see reasons to believe that I am wrong.

Edit: Know that the corpse of Zhaitan found by breaking out of the map in the story mode is not conclusive evidence, since this is something only seen through a glitch. And if you weren’t aware, glitches are not cannon.

Edit 2: I would like to add something else to the belief that Zhaitan is alive. We don’t know if ANY of the dragons can really be killed. The only recorded “defeat” of the dragons simply put them to sleep. We don’t know what the elder dragons are, or how they really function. It could even be possible that Elder dragons pass their power to a champion when they are killed, making that champion take it’s place (which may be what we are seeing with Tequatl).
There are also some flimsy ties between the Dragons and the human gods. It has been established that the human gods cannot truly be killed unless their godly essence is absorbed by another being (see Abbadon and Kormir). We can’t even say the dragons don’t work in a similar way.

I feel the need to voice my experience of this portion of the living story.

I am personally disappointed.

This update is quite mechanically sound, but there has not been much of any change with the story.

The only thing that has driven the narrative is that this mystery villain has been revealed to be a new character with unknown motivations. She comes off as just another in the string of villains who are just “evil.” This does not seem to move the events of the conflict of the Elder dragons, nor does it bring the living story much further.

The only interesting bit that was said was when Tonn said that she claims to be able to see the Eternal Alchemy, which is just another inch towards a compelling story and satisfying payoff.

Our encounters from her make her capabilities range from god like power in the invasions to bratty little girl with some toys in the dungeon. I find myself unable to see her as an effective or intimidating villain.

My biggest problem with the story thus far is that it has no weight to it. Only unnamed npcs were killed, and nothing in the world has really changed. like the molten alliance portions of the living story, it just seems like swarms of bees that show up, buzz around and wait to be either exterminated or left alone to do nothing.

I was quite excited for this update and hoped that something interesting would happen to renew my enthusiasm for the game.

I know there are a great deal of mysteries and intrigue in the Guild Wars 2 universe, I know there is some very very good story to be had here; but if this is the best we can hope for as a payoff, then I cannot see myself caring about the living story at all.

I hope this wasn’t all there was for this updated and that something interesting happens soon.

P.S.: Here are a few things that would catch my interest in the living story. This is just to demonstrate what I mean when I say I want some weight behind the events of the story and not to simply declare “ArenaNet, do these exact things.”

An established character’s death

An established character turning out to be evil

Introduction of a powerful villain with reasons to be a villain other than just being evil

Any of the many numerous mysteries of Guild Wars 2 coming to light, like the Colossus, Thumanova Reactor, the Steam Creatures or whatever happened to the human gods

One of the home cities being at least partially destroyed

What I don’t want to see:

A new villain with no known background, who is just evil for the sake of being evil.

A new character introduced to be killed off before I have a reason to care (see

in the personal story)

For nothing meaningful to the lore or world to happen (aka filler)

Comic relief to be omnipresent in the face of invasions or all out war

That will conclude my rant, thank you for making it all the way through.

Vayne.8563:

Not the first time a thread like this has come up and I understand why most people are disappointed with the Zhaitan fight. Because they think in terms of boss fights. Mostly people who play games after a certain point in time have more problems with it than people who grew up playing earlier games…because the entire premise of gaming has changed. I don’t think in terms of boss fights. I even hate the term boss. It takes the world away and puts it into game mode.

To me, I’d been fighting Zhaitan since the moment I entered Orr…around level 70. We’d partially blinded him, killed part of his food source, took away his ability to make more undead….we beat him back until he was trapped in Arah. We took the fight too him. Everything we did in the personal story was part of beating Zhaitan.

Then there’s the mega-laser that actually crippled Zhaitan, an invention of Professor Gorr. Unfortunately if you didn’t do that Asuran story line you don’t realize the significance of that weapon.

The Zhaitan fight is more of an epilogue than an actual boss fight. If you go expecting a boss fight, you’re going to be seriously disappointed. If you go in expected the last chapter of a story, maybe not so much.

There are a few things I would like to address about this response.

The portions of the personal story you’re talking about are more directed at fighting Zhaitan’s forces. The only thing the player has done that directly effects the dragon is to take out his food source. Even after that, Zhaitan himself should still be at relatively full strength. All he does in the fight is drop minions, roar, and spray some black sludge. At no point does Zhaitan do anything in the fight to suggest that he’s any smarter or more powerful than a random giant monster. The most he personally does in the fight is bash into the ship a couple of times, meaning the build up of his power is unfulfilled.

Regarding your comments about looking at games in terms of boss fights, games are not the only storytelling medium that uses the concept of a “final boss.” In countless movies, books, and tv series a main antagonist is identified, and the climax is often the clash between the protagonist and the antagonist. The method in which we defeat Zhaitan is similar to having the antagonist simply die off-screen or the antagonist falling immediately in the climax with little effort by the protagonist.

Imagine if in “The Dark Night” the Joker is defeated in one punch the first time Batman meets him with no other plans to trick up his sleeves and is simply imprisoned for the rest of his life.

Imagine if in “Django Unchained” the slave owner of Djano’s wife had a heart attack when Django showed up at his door.

Imagine if in “Star Wars” Darth Vader lost to Luke in one swing.

I hope that illustrates to you that this fight did not just disappoint me from a gameplay or gamer perspective, but also disappointed me in the narrative itself.

And finally, I would like to address the last comment you made. If the Zhaitan fight is an epilogue, then this story has no climax.

P.S.: One other thing I would like to point out is that Zhaitan wasn’t defeated in any sort of a clever way. The entire method in defeating him was “shoot him a lot.” We apparently just needed every faction shooting.

I have just moments ago played the story mode for Arah. I cleared the dungeon, and beat all the bosses presented to me. What I witnessed was not a boss fight. There was no epic conclusion, there was no ultimate battle, there was no satisfaction whatsoever. Zhaitan is one of the elder dragons, god like beings that players are told are near indestructible.

I will describe the fight against Zhaitan now, in a way to avoid spoilers. In this fight, undead mobs spawn, and you kill them. They are the same mobs you can fight just outside of the dungeon itself. Once all of them die, more spawn. Then after all of them are killed, 3 eyes of Zhaitan spawn. After they are killed, you see a cutscene of lasers hitting Zhaitan. Zhaitan then clings to a building and you control a turret as you proceed to shoot at him. This turret requites no aiming and only has one skill, to fire. Zhaitan’s only resistance to this is to occasionally place an aoe on the turret, which can kill you. Then after firing the turret enough times, Zhaitan is slain and the dungeon is over.

What I have just described is one of the most unsatisfying boss fights I have ever played.

This is an enemy the whole game has built up. This is an elder dragon, a being so powerful that it leaves destruction and corruption simply with its presence. Characters question if the dragons are even capable of being defeated.

In World of Warcraft, the questing was repetitive and boring, the grinding was terrible, and the pvp did not interest me. The only payoff for me in World of Warcraft were the boss fights, and that alone had me playing for years.

Now that I have seen the climax of the story and fought one of the game’s main antagonists and one of the most powerful beings in the entire story of Guild Wars, I now question if I will ever boot the game up again knowing that this is what ArenaNet deemed worthy of a final boss fight against such a well built up enemy.

I am disappointed, bewildered, and saddened by this experience.

I’m glad to see this kind of response, showing that ArenaNet is aware of the issues with their game, and they hope to fix the issues on a later date. This game is kitten good now, but falls just short of greatness. Posts like this suggest that after some time has passed, GW2 may reach that greatness.