Guild Wars 2

Good Call

If people quit over this than they quit lol.

I wonder though…..will they really quit? Or are they forum warriors just trolling like they normally do?

Hmm Oh well, we will just have to wait and see either way is good IMO. I play the game more than read these forums which I feel is the opposite for others and probably the people that are most upset with this lol. I know that’s an assumption, but some of the “trolls” just have sooo many posts and they post so often at any time of the day…

I will say something positive for the people that dislike this though and that is I believe it is ANET’s fault as to why they are taking this step. They should of been stricter from the beginning. Season 1 is a prime example.

Also not all troll posts were bad, like the noob calling or the calling out of guilds. Those imo were fine to a point. The ones that annoyed me personally were the idiotic posts from people blatantly saying things about other servers or people and not understanding that there server or people on there server do the exact same things.

The posts by those people are the ones that bring up most of the arguments that will then lead to misconduct of the TOS. I mean the blob/hack/spy/buying posts. Then again I guess that’s why people are mad this is going away because they can’t do that anymore.

I know people will disagree with me, but hey…I don’t post often and this is a discussion thread so I’m okay with that.

Voicer.8239:

Luxon.1389
I think more people are upset and bring up ZD’s transfer over MERC or any other guild is because of the timing. MERC transfer happened a week before league? ZD’s transfer happened a week after league while BG was losing to SOR. YES BG was making a comeback on their own accord, but you can’t blame people for suspecting the worse when it happened at that time. Not only that but from what I read here is BG doesn’t even need ZD’s help. ZD’s is a final nail on everyone else’s coffin. ZD’s is the reason it’s a blowout and why other servers “give up”. BG’s core is the main reason for the success in this league.

This topic belongs in a museum, old doesent even describe it anymore.
Zds is a great guild, we’re happy they choose BG and I hope they appreciate BG as much as we appreciate them. You guys rock.
Servers “give up” bc they didnt try hard enough. JQ could still get 1st this week if they wanted to. SoR give up to early, we will never know but I did expected crazy fights everyday against them. Its a pitty things turn out this way.
This is not a blow out, BG just want to win more then SoR or JQ. This week proves what Im saying, JQ got more then 5k lead, and we pushed hard to catch. They could still push back, but for some reason they give it up. Its your fault your server dont stay competitive, not BG’s and for sure not ZDs. Wake up please.

I never mentioned in my post specifically that I blame BG for wanting to win by doing whatever it takes to win over other servers.

Take this post however you want to. But I agree BG did do a better job than any other server and took the necessary steps needed to win. Your prerogative is to win. Plain and simple, no matter what it takes. I think everyone here knows that about BG by now.

It’s already been mentioned that BG has been putting in a lot of OT correct? In order for JQ to catch up not only do you guys have to stop putting in OT, but JQ needs to put in extra hours at the very least. I mean I could say that you guys could make multiple horrible mistakes or just not show up in full force for a day but for me to say that is as likely to happen as you thinking this isn’t a blow out.

Don’t get me wrong I know JQ’s WvW guilds will show up to fight just like SOR’s WvW did, despite BG trolls saying otherwise. JQ has a a solid core. But it’s a bit harder to rally the militia when you are on the side that is losing. The militia has a big part of determining a winner imo especially when it comes to having coverage on all maps most of the time. And it’s always easier for the winning side to say try harder or something to that affect.

But you know what…if JQ comes back like some BG seems to think either out of respect or sympathy(whether that’s real or not) than I welcome it and I will be making a post to admit I was wrong here. Not to mention it will make a lot of people happy that week 7 could be a determining factor of who wins this season.

Maelwaedd.5842:

That arms race picture was actually a joke (hence why it was in the public section of the forums) about Leagues starting up and servers rushing to recruit every guild they could. Some people took it seriously like we had thousands of gold to pay for guilds to play for us, BG commonly have a lottery to raise funds to help buy siege for guilds and help out guilds who get hacked etc on the server

If that was fake than fine. But in the past has there been any proof of the top 3 servers buying guilds to come over for them? If this has happened than people will always assume it would and will happen again especially right before or even during something as big as this league.

People will always assume the worst when it doesn’t benefit their server and people will always assume something doesn’t happen when it does benefit their server. How many people here post real truthful information on how they operate their WvW dealings. I doubt many if any. Why would you want to spill those secrets right?

All you ever read is “no we did not buy them, they came on their own accord with their own money”. I mean how do they actually know? Are they there when the conversations go on about transferring? And if the actual guild that transferred over saying this then it must be true right? Why would they say otherwise and risk being humiliated over the forums along with the server they transferred to.

And of course the accusers are in the same boat. How would they actually know a server bought a guild. Are they secretly spying in on conversations that some guild leaders have with the guild or guilds that transfer?

Kiff.8157:

I have evidence JQ player admitted their pve players donated thousand gold to JQ WVW community when JQ was doing massive guild recruitment. So why should we forget about MERC but have to keep bringing up ZDs? Oh, and just curious why do people keep forgetting about WVW guild that was bought by JQ to stack SEA timezone?

I think more people are upset and bring up ZD’s transfer over MERC or any other guild is because of the timing. MERC transfer happened a week before league? ZD’s transfer happened a week after league while BG was losing to SOR. YES BG was making a comeback on their own accord, but you can’t blame people for suspecting the worse when it happened at that time. Not only that but from what I read here is BG doesn’t even need ZD’s help. ZD’s is a final nail on everyone else’s coffin. ZD’s is the reason it’s a blowout and why other servers “give up”. BG’s core is the main reason for the success in this league.

Neuromancer.2148:

Reslinal.2359:

magikfox.9658:

True irony is moaning to a server that they are ducking the score to get more guilds, when said server takes a break right before the beginning of season one and… lululul

BG never kept it a secret that our main guilds are taking a break that week so they can get fully rested for the season. It’s not BG’s fault when some people don’t believe what we said and use our performance that week as a measure of our strength and decide their strategy in week1….shrug

This. Other servers were being dismissive about our ability to win the league and now that their prophecies haven’t been fulfilled the conspiracies crop up to deride and discredit the effort Blackgate put in to stay competitive. I thought you guys preferred tough fights over empty towers?

Conspiracies start from evidence given. Forget about what JQ did before the start of the season when they got MERC. True or false though, the screenshot of BG arms race is that real or not? From the looks of that it’s no wonder people can assume ZDs was bought right?

Secondly in most people’s mind that look at the bigger picture, it’s safe to assume that BG’s strength will not be the same after the season ends. ZD’s should leave(they said they would earlier when they first made posts about coming over) and your PVE coverage should drop immensely compared to other servers who have shorter and no queues the majority of the time zones.

So given the above, what will the be said IF you guys happen to start going downhill? What type of “excuses” will we see after league ends? I mean why should a league be the main reason you guys come out full force? Why not bring it all the time? It’s obvious SOR’s(maybe JQ) m.o. is to not pull OT as hardcore as you guys. I’m referring to the break you guys had before league after all.

Heck though I could be wrong. This will be a moot point if you guys happen to keep ZD’s and your PVE militia. You guys will then be strong for a very long time.

Rainami.8031:

Well on BG we do work hard to keep our place. As for the numbers thing, wow you must not play WvW much. The shear number of times I hear the commanders yelling for people to stop there PvE/PUGing and get to them is countless. Our tiny zergs vs all the massive blobs from the other servers can be daunting, but we still manage to rally. The mass number of PvEer’s that are unwilling to help are why we have a que.

Every server has pugs that don’t follow the commanders or zergs and don’t contribute at all to WvW. The fact BG has a bigger population in general is the reason they are much better EVEN if they have some pugs doing random pve stuff in WVW.

They have a bigger pool of people possibly willing to help over other servers.

Just think if your server is queued and you have a certain % of those people fighting and a certain % not fighting, what do you think your competitors may have if they don’t have a queue?

Example not factual: BG 100 people with queue 80 fighting 20 not
SOR 85 people no queue 65 fighting 20 not

Again it’s not factual is just a example showing if you have people not doing stuff then obviously SOR has people not doing stuff. On top of that SOR doesn’t have a queue and you do meaning logically you would have more people fighting AND willing to contribute.

If you want to go into rallying your PUGS together and asking them to join on TS and help the server….yea well it’s much easier said than done when your winning already. Of course your pugs will be happy to join when your winning. Fairweathers always come out when there is a no lose situation.

As for next season IMO I think Anet will have made some fixes or put some barriers in place to stop transfers after a season starts and stop transfers even before a season starts way in advanced. If not stop than punish those that transfer for WvW purposes. After all they did start that discussion about fixing population balance in WvW.

I do not think increasing transferring costs to different tier 1 servers will help at the start. There is a definite difference between the tier 1 and the rest of the league and there is also a difference between the top 3 in tier 1 and the other half of tier 1.

And until we see the BG vs JQ match up, I’m positive since league and of course even 2 weeks into league there is now a population disparity between the top 3 servers. I know people will say it might be because of fair-weathers or morale for one server or another, but if you have accounts on all 3 servers, you can see the difference when you queue up and go into WvW during all time zones.

So increasing the cost to transfer to the top tier servers imo will not help till the balance is solved first. Why would any hard core guild or band wagon pug want to transfer off of the winning server.

I like the idea of lowering the map cap. That way the servers that stack intentionally(buying guilds) or accidentally through random people that join just to win. They will then realize their massive guild cannot enter right away or all at once and may then want to transfer to a server that has less pug wvw’s or smaller guilds in wvw.

If not that, than something else needs to be done to balance things out. Once servers start getting balanced out, then implement increased server transfers to help try and keep people in there place.

DKNS.2135:

This match-up has been like Karmic Justice to SoR. Even if somehow BG doesn’t win the league, we will still remember it for bringing so many SoR players to tears in the match-ups that entailed.

Interesting you say this…

Are doubts creeping in that you won’t win for some reason?

Also you nailed it right on the head, one of the first “at least” posts that will be stated if BG doesn’t win. You guys really do think ahead on everything lol.

Garet Jax.1609:

This is my first time posting on forums, even if i always come here to have some fun reading. But this time i seriously want to give my 2cents.

I have been on SoR since release and it has always been amazing. What’s going on now? I understand not playing for points, which i do as well (i barely look at the score until friday and honestly dont care about winning: have fun > win), but at least we should be out there fighting, don’t you think? Because owning literally 2 camps and 2 towers and nothing else during certain timezones means there is no one out there fighting. From what i have seen (feel free to correct me) this is going beyond having a small coverage: sometimes i log in and see literally 10 people on ts and a maximum of 20 people on the battlefield, trying to hold against bg map blobs when everyone else seem to have given up. And when this happen i see my guild members, as well as other wvw guilds members, doing PvE… i have nothing against PvE, but you cant just do that when your server NEEDS you out there fighting.

To sum up: It’s ok that we dont fight for points, but we should AT LEAST be out there fighting ( and i’m seeing literally NO ONE in certain timezones, and while this happens i see WvWers do PvE)

As i said i’ve been on SoR since release, and it’s been amazing, but for the first time i’m seriously considering a transfer. Is there no pride on this server anymore?

What time do you normally play? Are you playing right now? Go to EB and see if we are not fighting and what is going on.

Xenesis.6389:

Sor is self destructing because of the guilds, some of them are unwilling to play with others, they pull good players from the server into their guild and then play among themselves. I’ve heard commanders sound disgusted they have too many pugs with them, some will do things to shake them off, some commanders are unwilling to work with pugs at all, which I think is very important to maintaining numbers on your side.

If you are not out there leading whether we’re winning or losing with the pugs they will give up wandering around aimlessly getting slaughtered. But I suppose that’s what you want right? well 12:30pm on a saturday outmanned on a bl, the pugs have already given up and the ap hunters are gone so who’s left to fill the space?

Now you guilds have what you wanted, an open queue and a ton of bg to fight, but the price? There is hurt pride and broken morale all in the name of just looking for fights to fill your bags up, and it’s only week 3 of 7 where we were expected to compete for first, instead what’s left of the season is talk of waiting to 2v1 with jq on bg on week 7, so I guess we should just get the karma train running for 4 weeks huh.

I know commanding the pug zerg can be trying on the nerves, but if you want better players you need to train and lead them, all I ever hear is blame being set on them for anything that goes wrong. Even the week before the season I mentioned in chat that commanders should be out and leading, and yet I got back the “it’s training week for guilds” that attitude was bound to bite us back.

I’ve seen many cmd’s plead with the pugs to join them on TS or x up in map chat for small simple tasks and many just don’t seem to care. They get ignored and the task has to fall to someone who is in their guild or someone who is on TS. I have also seen many say they are willing to help out pugs with builds. I’m a PUG. I am not in a major SOR guild. But I was willing to come on TS, I was willing to get build help. The cmd’s are offering. The majority of the pugs are not responding.

Slushey.8236:

Blackgate hasn’t gained more players than we previously had:
- NA: [EE] joined BG and filled the shoes of [RISE], [rB], [RICH], etc.
- OC: [Zero] joined BG and fields about 15 – 20 people during OC.
- SEA/EU: [ZDs] joined BG and is helping during late SEA and EU.

We’re not bigger than before, most likely smaller:
- Our OC is much smaller than it’s previously been since [MERC]‘s departure.
- Our NA is no more stacked than yours, and is less stacked than it previously was.
- Our SEA is fairly decent now with the addition of [ZDs].
- Our EU isn’t even close to being stacked.

So how are we winning?
The fact is, Blackgate has always been a hardcore WvW-focussed server. This is the first league, and believe it or not, we want to win (just as other servers do). Last week guilds like [ICoa], [GoF] and [KnT] (amongst others) stayed up 5 or 6 hours into OC to help fill our weakest time zone, while other guilds like [OnS] are getting up early in order to help assist the EU. Not to mention all of the OC guilds on Blackgate (even the PvE and PvX guilds) are banding together during OC and SEA in order to provide numbers. As soon as leagues are over, I guarantee most of us will be burned out and you’ll probably have several super easy weeks against us. But as I’ve already said, we take WvW very seriously and want to win, and we will all try our best to make that happen.

BG is definitely a server that’s in it to win. They will do whatever it takes to win I’m sure of it. But how can anyone deny BG has not gained a lot of people. Try to see past the guilds for once. Yes you guys lost a guild or 2 and yes you gained a guild or 2, but look at the Pugs. I’m sure all 3 top tier servers gained new transfers, but IF I were to guess I would place BG at the top of that list. YES it’s a guess, but considering you guys were the only Full server at the start of the league, it’s the only thing I can go off besides seeing more numbers on the battlefield majority of the time zones(now that doesn’t mean your stacked, it just means it’s more than you had before).

So again yes your server is more dedicated to winning and that’s what attracted random people to join your server over others.

Btw just to “try” and prove the point I want to make if anyone reads this post and cares enough of what I said can you please message me of “blobs” or “zergs” pics of BG prior to league transfers. I’m sure some people have some to make points about blobbing or zerging. I then can compare them to ones I will take when I am in game now. Again if anyone cares, please when you send me the pictures, you tell me what timezone it was, so when I take mine I can do the same. Thanks.

Whenever a legitimate or serious post that explains the situation from the perspective of both sides, it gets ignored and the trolls keep repeating each other’s comments, when the answers have been stated multiple times by both sides.

Fact is SOR got caught with their pants down at the end of last weekend. Then ZD’S showed up. SOR could not rally in time or the forces required. SOR got demoralized. SOR now gives 0 kittens about ppt and is just going to play for the fights when they have the numbers in their prime time. So yes in essence SOR gave up “trying” for first.

Fact BG did a great job making the comeback before ZD’s showed up. BG has a higher WvW population in general. It could be fairweather’s or it could be just new transfers. But overall they have gained more people. Queue’s speak for themselves. ZD’S does make impact when they fight SOR’s weak time slot. It’s may be EU but it’s not the same as SOR’s prime time EU which was also mentioned before.

Also something to keep in mind for the future. Balance and change between the top 3 servers will change, that’s a given considering the changes that have been happening to each server over the past half year. This season SOR got the wrong end of the stick. BG got a lot of news transfers and 1 major guild. Same with JQ. But who knows, if this league has a season 2, things could be different. Your server may be the one that is failing.

BG’s come back over the weekend was amazing before ZD showed up. I think SOR got to comfortable and slacked after the 17k lead. For whatever reasons I didn’t notice nearly as many on TS on Monday compared to the weekend. TS is just an example because the more on TS usually means more coordination and more determination to win imo.

I think right now, SOR is demoralized IMO along with a few other reasons who knows. BG has a great new 30-40+ person guild that is very organized and comes on and just owns. That is on top of the fact BG’s original forces have been kicking butt during most of the other time zones.

This is just speculation here, but just think how awesome this week would have been if ZD’s didn’t show up. Afterall BG’s comeback was before ZD’s showed up and they were only down by like 2k after being down by 17k. Now of course SOR might of rallied back, but IMO it wouldn’t have been to the extent it was over the weekend. This week could have been a back and forth battle IMO.

I guess we will have to see what it’s like after ZD’s leaves, if they do.

BAEK.8561:

This is most likely what’s happening between BG and SoR

Undisputable facts:
1. BG has a greater total population than SoR
2. SoR has a higher percentage of players who focus on WvW
3. WvW Season has attracted a lot of PvEers looking for achievement points

On weekends, I’m sure both servers queued all 4 maps almost 24/7. This means both servers were fielding equal numbers at all times. BG most likely had a lot more percentage of PvE players running around in WvW than SoR did, simply due to facts #1 and 2. And because dedicated WvW players are generally better at WvW than PvE players, SoR won more fights because they had more WvW players on the map than BG did. The PPT over the weekend (and steamrolling of BG BL) confirm this.

Now on weekdays, where queues start to drop especially during off-times, the outcome of the battle shifts from quality over quantity to quantity over quality. The server with superior numbers will outshine the other. When the other server is simply outmanned, it really doesn’t matter if you’re fielding PvE players or WvW players, because any player (PvE or WvW) will always beat doors. So, since BG has a much greater PvE population that is all over WvW hungry for some achievement points, there is no way SoR can match BG’s numbers. The pattern has been like this between BG and SoR for a long time, with SoR performing better on weekends and BG performing better on weekdays. But it has become more severe with WvW Season attracting even more PvE player base, which benefits BG more than it does SoR, simply because BG has a much greater PvE population.

All in all, who cares. This isn’t to say that one server is better than the other. We should all just be grateful for great fights because what would BG or SoR be without the other?

I’m not sure about actual numbers but imo I think this statement is true. From the way I observe it anyway.

Liquid.9672:

Second, the turn over into the week isn’t exactly “quantity over quality”. It just means as total participation drops into the week days it allows BG to get more of it’s hardcore WvW players onto maps, to better direct and motivate the “quantity”. It’s not easy though. Just yesterday during SEA we almost lost Garri and had a very frustrated SEA commander log out because players on the map weren’t rallying. My point is, it’s not as simple as “quantity over quality”.

Imo I agree, but it’s also as the same affect on SOR. The dedicated WvW’s that are on for SOR still show up, but the weekend population consisting of whoever(either more casual WvW players and/or some of the PvE population) do not show up as much on the week days as they did on the weekend.

Also just because your cmd can’t get your forces to rally doesn’t mean you don’t have the numbers. It just means everyone is doing their own thing. I’ve seen it happen on SOR aswell when we have had more than enough players on the map.

If BG gets their hardcore WvW players on maps and their PVE or casual WvW crews then they are more determined to win. Which they get credit for. And this is what I believe has been happening over the last day or two.

P.S- All of the above is excluded from the fact BG did get a new guild to add to their ranks which has a impact whether small or big to the equation.