Guild Wars 2

You guys are amazing. Thanks for taking the time to explain…….makes sense.

Mask….I am new to the Engi forum but not to the Engi. He is 80 and I shelved him to concentrate on my Necro that I use for an organized zerg busting guild group.

I took this build out for a spin and really like the potential. I am mostly spec’d P/P with Rabid gear throughout. I am having success as it is and want to tweak my setup to squeeze as much as i can out of it.

In looking through your gear/upgrade choices, I have a few questions:

-It seems that you will mix in a P/V/C piece every so often, is this random or is there a “minimum number” of these pieces you recommend?

-Why is power relevant? It seems the only thing you are getting is improved Pry Bar numbers but nothing else you are doing scales with power. It seems Rabid (Prec/Tou/CD) would be better all around..?

-Your upgrades (armor) seem to concentrate on boon duration….since confusion is a condition, and seems to be the main damage source, why not go for condition duration (same for food [rare pizza for example])?

-Finally, I think this build has some real potential to step into my necro’s current role but I can’t seem to find a way to get the same stacks of confusion in an AE manner. I know bomb 3 does AE confustion but I am not sure that is a big enough radius or as many/long of stacks. Am I overlooking something that could make this viable?

Thanks in advance!!!

I just posted the below in another thread regading Rangers but it applies here as well. I think the idea of a Power build going 1v1 seems like common sense but I am familiar with this confusion Engi spec (Demented Engineer Spec) and it can be devestating.

His achillies heel is that he must get close to you to use his bomb that causes confusion, wrench etc. These are not long range abilities, so your need to be close to him and, on a typical Power build is helping his cause.

I don’t know if you want to re-spec for just one fight, but as you will see below, this spec can be very viable in any 1v1, regardless of spec/class.

(begin copy)

So, I have never played a Well-o-m and am considering moving toward a group Wells power build but I used to have the same issues with Rangers.

Today, I uses Nemesis’s (6x Fear) Terror build and I just LOL at them now. Like any class, if I get caught with my cooldows blown I am going to have a much harder time but, here is what I do…..

See a Ranger (any class I will need to 1v1 really)….get my Elite pet out. Once in range, I send my pet at Ranger which does a sprint / knock down. HINT: This speed/knock down will also interrupt an Ele’s steam charge if timed properly.

While he is on the ground I do a Staff 2 to start him bleeding, then a staff 5 on top of him. Right as he gets up, he is feared (which in my spec causes damage).

As he runs (feared), I place staff 3 down for chill so I can keep close enough to him. Once Fear runs its’ course, they will normally turn to fight. I switch to DS and use DS3 to fear him again. At this point, my pets is on him and psychologically, he is beginning to panic. He has now taken close to 4k famage on fear ticks alone and is ticking from other conditions on him.

When he pops buffs to run or strengthen himself, I will Corrupt Boon and turn those into conditions (situational….have to pick right time). If he uses a skill that grants Stability boon, when corrupted…that turns in Fear,

I switch to scepter and cripple / bleed etc to stay inside my range and he is trying to kite awy from me.

At this point, it is over he just doesn’t knonw it yet

By the time you have used your scepter skills, staff is off Cd. Switch to staff and use as needed. Remember staff 5 (fear) and DS 3 (fear) are likely off CD and read to take him out of the fight, again.

There is more that you will have to consider / react to but I normally have no issues with solo fights anymore.

Here is a link to the thread discussing the build I am using:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Fear-is-my-weapon-6x-fear-WvW-build/first

Hope this helps.

So, I have never played a Well-o-m and am considering moving toward a group Wells power build but I used to have the same issues with Rangers.

Today, I uses Nemesis’s (6x Fear) Terror build and I just LOL at them now. Like any class, if I get caught with my cooldows blown I am going to have a much harder time but, here is what I do…..

See a Ranger (any class I will need to 1v1 really)….get my Elite pet out. Once in range, I send my pet at Ranger which does a sprint / knock down. HINT: This speed/knock down will also interrupt an Ele’s steam charge if timed properly.

While he is on the ground I do a Staff 2 to start him bleeding, then a staff 5 on top of him. Right as he gets up, he is feared (which in my spec causes damage).

As he runs (feared), I place staff 3 down for chill so I can keep close enough to him. Once Fear runs its’ course, they will normally turn to fight. I switch to DS and use DS3 to fear him again. At this point, my pets is on him and psychologically, he is beginning to panic. He has now taken close to 4k famage on fear ticks alone and is ticking from other conditions on him.

When he pops buffs to run or strengthen himself, I will Corrupt Boon and turn those into conditions (situational….have to pick right time). If he uses a skill that grants Stability boon, when corrupted…that turns in Fear,

I switch to scepter and cripple / bleed etc to stay inside my range and he is trying to kite awy from me.

At this point, it is over he just doesn’t knonw it yet

By the time you have used your scepter skills, staff is off Cd. Switch to staff and use as needed. Remember staff 5 (fear) and DS 3 (fear) are likely off CD and read to take him out of the fight, again.

There is more that you will have to consider / react to but I normally have no issues with solo fights anymore.

Here is a link to the thread discussing the build I am using:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Fear-is-my-weapon-6x-fear-WvW-build/first

Hope this helps.

Ok, quick note/.question on the Berserker’s jewels. Those are PvP only items and I am not having luck finding their WvW equivilant.

Any guidance?

EDIT:…ok found the Exquisite jewels (between Ruby or Beryl). I assume Berserker’s stats don’t exist for a jewel outside the Mists?

Bhawb.7408:

Actually I think Spectral grasp would be quite good in that group setting. I don’t care who gets in, you pull someone dead center in a group of 10 people and they are going to find themselves respawning very soon.

True. However, if we roll through a group, turn and push through again, where am I pulling them to?

Also, does the occasional pull outweigh an AE spell (well)in its’ place?

NOTE: I referred to dagger MH above but whatever utility it could have, it must outweigh the Axe 3 that AE cripples. That would be amazing on a push.

Also Nem, can you see a potential spec that includes Spite? I. Love the direction my most recent build above is going but feel like I am losing a lot of power with little or no spite.

Nemesis.8593:

I think that for that thing you would have to go a power build, which would render you a bit useless in a siege fight at/on a wall/gate… on either side… but from what i see you guys want to do hit and runs…

You might want to go all out mad as a glass cannon necromancer teamed up with 1-2 thieves… Since you have DS + well of suffering + spectral wall + spectral grasp, i can think of no better initiator for a thief. Just make sure you stay close to the thieves… have voice chat… call out targets… spectral grasp through spectral wall + immobilize + thieves = dead, take next target reaper’s touch + well of suffering + ghastly claws + thieves = dead…. repeat as necessary.

To be honest… you would do such high DPS burst with all that vulnerability + chill that the target would die in a very effective manner.

How does it sound to you ?

PS: Lich Form spam 1 when clustered… o m g

Nem….thanks for jumping in on this!

Spect wall may work but I think anything single target would be largely wasted. We are running with 8-10 minimum and max at 12-15 (mix of hammer warriors / mesmerism / eles and me.

I have settled on power with an AE skills setup but am trying to refine what that should look like.

Soldier’s gear w/ zerker jewels?
Full zerker?

I have decided on horn offhand but having full power, should I have dagger MH in case I get caught and jumped or to help burn down portal mesmerism etc?

Finally, the build I put up earlier did not take dagger into consideration. With the ‘siphon health on hit’ plus siphon heals teammates….is there a better spec?

Monkeymonger.9235:

The reason why i believe you need a minimum of “raw survival stats” (toughness, vitality), is random aoe. You don’t aim in these fights and no enemy will notice your presence – but you will get hit by a lot of random stuff that just happens to be thrown in your direction.
If you are “rolled over before you can even see them” – then please set up scouts. And read team chat. And watch the map. Even if you get caught by surprise, you still have two dodges, death shroud and plague form. Don’t just roll over and accept defeat as inevitable but try to get out of the kill zone and reorganize at your point guy (the one with a red cross or blue icon above his head).
If you go down to say 40% after the initial push, you’ll have to play a lot more defensivly, which means your team will lose effectivnes in the counter push.

The reason i like the setup i posted earlier is that i don’t get downed unless my group is wiped. If you get defeated and rally opponents you are a liability.

Concerning damage: Necros are bad primary damage dealers. They don’t do bad damage (even with soldiers), but i believe that their primary role in a template is that of a utility class. Dark combo fields, aoe boon removal, chills, blinds and cripple are the reason i want them in my team.

I agree….setting up wells/marks, moving to improve position etc…..all come with eating some area damage.

I am good with the idea of “only living guys contribute”, I just want to make sure I have enough damage that when I do something (well/ Axe 2 etc) it hurts….not main DPS hurts…..but hurts.

I think Soldier’s will get me there with some Berserker stuff sprinkled in

It looks like Soldier’s is Badges of Honor (PvP vendor). It looks like the Karma set is scattered among several vendors?

I don’t care how it looks….gonna transmute it anyway.

Updated link:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNBHhZakRLUPTzSjfTBIp45rnU094wCiZU8wA;T8Ag0ynEOJdS9kyJKnMOJcy6kzJpTDLeQMhA

Ignore sigils on weps….haven’t decided anything yet.

Rennoko.5731:

….snip…

Rennoko….good to see you back in here

I will give you an example of two fights I was in last night:

-First was at a supply camp we were taking…..zerg of 35-40 was rolling in (we were ~ 20 strong) and our scout on the peremiter warned us. We stacked….buffed and headed them off as they trying to come in from an alternant direction. They pushed…..we held……we pushed. They retreated to a geographical choke point that was brilliant.

We held at that point and traded a lot of hurt while both sides rez’d the rez’able. We pushed thru the choke point and then through them to a safe point to evaluate.

This went on for more than 8 minutes and I spent several of those minutes at 50% health. Not from being reckless etc but from pushing, fringe AoE trying to set up marks etc.

This is all with me wearing my Terror build gear (Prec/Tough/Cond). I have no doubt I would not have been able to contribute 50% of what I did with substantially less in a defensive stat.

-The second fight was with the same group at Askalon Hills (not Bay) and we fought inside the courtyard with pushes / counter pushes / portals etc for over 20 min. The lord room door (bridge) fight was at least that long and I rally’d twice in that time.

We finally took it with a push in response to a portal bomb that had me wading through some hurt.

I won’t belabor the point but I would much rather have some survivability. I know the fights you refer to and sometimes it is ‘Bang – Bang’ loser releases but when it is not, I wanna be in it to the end.

Monkeymonger.9235:

Looks quite good
Just some points/suggestions:
- Parasitic bond: It gives ~1k health/enemy. After a well/mark combo you should have tagged every enemy. In big group fights is basically another regeneration effect. I used to go with 10 points in spite for spiteful removal. Both skills work very well for the way that group fights go in my experience.
- If you go spite, then either go 5 or 30 (for close to death).-

This makes a ton of sense. Depending on how much longer to horn stun gets extended…..this is the way I will go. I would like to max power (I think) because of staff / wells etc so am I gimping my build to stay on ly 5 in spite?

Monkeymonger.9235:

- The reason i use soldiers gear is that i’m usually raid leader, which means that i need every bit of survivability i can get. From your comments/build i get the impression that you want to stay at range for the most part. So my suggestion for you would be knight’s gear + omnomberry pie. You don’t lose that much of survivability but at the same time increase your dps. If you feel more comfortable with your build over time you can use some berserker jewels for crit damge. -

Actually, in the group I run with, we all push through……..put up water fields etc and buff for another push. So when we engage I will be at staff range planting wells/marks and will dive in under a few circumstances (there are more but these are a few key ones):

-Plauge to finish large number of downed near front line
-DS to pressure front line or fisnish downed with DS4
-Press forward with Unholy Feast to slow aggressive front lines and get Ret

Monkeymonger.9235:

-Well of blood: In your build it will heal for ~250/s. It’s nice for the stacking but in practice healing rain + thief and some empowers work a lot better. Taking it over consume conditions means that you need another way to cure the “killing conditions” – cripple and chill. The times that i usually get into trouble is when we try to reposition, i get chilled and rolled over. I personally prefer the independence that consume conditions gives me. Just try it out – if it works for you, go for it.-

I have only ever used Consume and was considering WoB for placement potential but we have so much healing as it is…….cond removal on myself is more important, I agree.

Monkeymonger.9235:

-Both “target the weak” and “deadly strength” (~90-100 power for soldiers) are good ways to boost your damage. I don’t really like the 30 into curses and would rather go with 25 there and put the 5 points either into spite (passive regen) or death magic (extra power). Wail of doom is a good skill, but i find the range too short and the cd too long to make it worth a major trait. -

This makes sense…..a grandmaster trait on a situational OH wep is reaching a bit. I will have to give it some thought, but the passive regen in Spite will boost my Power and the regen/kill so I will likely go with that.

Monkeymonger.9235:

-Scepter vs. Axe comes down to personal preference. What you want from both is the aoe cripple. Grasping dead is a bit more reliable, but for my playstyle the perma-retaliation from unholy feast is too good to pass up. -

I had not considered the retaliation factor which makes Axe a no brainer. Also, being able to fire off an Unholy Feast (blindly) as we push through is far better than having to ground target a Scepter 2. I will be placing enough ground targets as it is

Monkeymonger.9235:

-Plague: You can either use it defensivly to “dodge” a hammer train if you are out of position or offensivly. Typical example is when you are pushing on a wall or trying to block a choke point. The chill/blind is amazing in these situations. Just remember that you don’t have to use it for the whole duration. -

Indeed, as I mentioned above I will use it to push into front lines of downed players etc…

This has been TREMENDOUSLY helpful.

One last thought is on gear……

As I mentioned above, I am in the thick of it as we push and at staff range when we engaged with similarly disciplined group. I deffinately want enough tough/vit/survivability to survivie the fight. Nobody gets big crits when dead

I also want to have meaningful damage….so is tough better than vit? Once I get set on a stat set (p/v/t or whatever) do I carry that throughout all my gear? It sounds like you were heavily leaning toward soldiers. Did my description of what I am looking to to strenthen that position?

Again, thank you for your time and input!

Monkeymonger.9235:

snip

Monkey…thanks for your thoughts.

I am not looking for a glass cannon build. Just tonight we were in a 20+ minute fight over Bay (about 50 vs 40) and I would have been a liability had I not had the toughness in my current build.

I am actually trying to figure out how to do the following:

-Retain good survivability
-Get greater marks, Ground Tgt wells
-Boost dmg on: Life transfer, wells, marks

I am not needing to keep any condition damage unless it is vital to accomplishing the above. I am not opposed to swapping to a power build if that what will make the greatest impact. In fact, your sample build had nothing in Spite….which is where power lives

My biggest hurdle is that all of the conversations revolving around WvW builds are AE condition or Single tgt power. Because I am not a min / max’er I just KNOW there is something important that I am going to overlook.

A quick run through and I came up with this:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNBLhZaESLUPTzSjfPBIp45rnU094RPKe4lB;TwAA1ynEOJdStlSLqtMbJ2yulbL5WA

Rennoko.5731:

Okay, so my opinion on this from running in what I will call the coordinated zerg buster-ball, is that you are better off not doing conditions period. In fact over the course of the last few days I have finished up my zerker set just for this reason.

So the problem you run into is this. I you have a stack of 30 people, in a fire ring, stacking up might, running through a veil, and crashing into a group of invaders trying to take a keep, they are going to die almost instantly. Having watched this happen dozens of times, I can tell you while speced for conditions, the ONLY thing I was able to do in the FPS lag, actual lag, and chaos was throw marks in random locations, and go into cloud form and run around.

Given this, I concluded the best thing to do would be to run staff and ranged wells (the two damaging ones), in berzerker gear. I will be trying it for the first time next chance I get, but given that these sort of zerg stategies 9/10 times either result in us crushing them, or us crushing into them (and then getting crushed), the zerker gear seems like the best plan.

So looking at putting out more damage per mark hit/well is going to be significantly better then conditions because people are constantly going down and popping up and going down and popping up, getting a free full condition clear each time.

Plus DS 4 is excellent for this situation, and it hits a lot harder with zerker gear.

Bottom line, hitting more people and hitting them harder is going to be way more important in this situation than toughness or vitality. Your goal is to blast as much damage as possible out, and hope you are on the initiating side of that. If you go down, you will likely rally right back up. Since you can’t see half the people on the screen, and can hardly react in a timely fashion because of the lag, may as well go down swinging I always say.

This is why all these coordinated zergs run guardians with line of warding, shout traits, and full zerker gear. They can lawnmower through everything, tag everything, rally freqently, AOE clear conditions, deal decent damage, and drop line of warding while using staff 4 before the zerg starts to move. Also all the boons and AOE stability etc.

Please keep me posted as you refine this……you are describing exactly what I am wanting to spec for.

One thing I will share is the thought that your 3rd well could be WoP since it removes confitions and a blast finisher is AE blind. That alsmot makes the WoD irrelevant in this scenario.

Monkeymonger.9235:

You’ve already identified some of the core issues with condition builds in core group play:
- You usually have control t on a leader and don’t want to target specific enemies (epidemic).
- Your damage impact on the first push is very small and you’re forced into a utility/support role.
- The survivability is lower. It’s still fairly high (plague, ds, high vitality), but not comparable to full ptv.

In an organized 15+ group damage isn’t important (sounds stupid, doesn’t it?). It’s much more about coordinating the skills of every member on a single point. In order for a build to be useful in groupfights you’ll need a combination of debuffs/cc, support, survivability and damage.
If you only focus on one aspect you will lose effectiveness. Take for example a glasscannon that dies in the beginning of a fight, or a tank that is last man standing but didn’t contribute to the fight, etc. You want more specialized roles, but you should never neglect one aspect completly.

To illustrate what all this rambling has to do with a necro, I’ll use a build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNBmODbkRLUPTzSjfTBIz45rnU094wCiUU8wA;TsAA1Ctocy4kwJrTOnkOtAZAyGCA

Survivability: high survival stats, ds, plague, vampirism
Control: fear, chills, cripple
Support: heal on transfusion, dark combo fields
Damage: no crit, but very high power (+sharpening stone, higher pve stats, might)

Thanks for taking time to put that together. I really like trait choices. I would likely swap the Well of Darkness for Well of Power since my Warriors could smash a WoP and get an AoE blind out of it while still converting conditions.

A few questions:

-What would gear stats be Pwr/T/C? Remember I am in the thick of it with my group as we push, so I think T>Vit

-Since we are not going deep in the Spite tree…..will Well of Suffering really be impactful?

Keep it coming…

Thanks Bhawb!

Where are all the regulars?……..
Rennoko
Nemesis
Lettucemode
And so on…..

Brother Necro in need here!

Ok, so I have discussed and read the entire thread on Nem’s Terror (6x fear) build and am loving how it performs in WvW. I am full Exotics (a lot Arah) and even have Final Rest and full Nightmare runes.

Nem’s Terro build:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Fear-is-my-weapon-6x-fear-WvW-build/first

In Nem’s thread I explained, in detail, how I view WvW and my method of “making an impact”. It is very mukitteneeping with Nems’ appraoch of doing the little things (fearing off siege, AE DoT’ing front lines, Corrupting aggressive Gurdians and Eles and turning them into ‘dirty bombs’ etc).

The Terror build is perfect for that except……something has changed…….and I need help:

My guild of former DAoC players has evolved from being 4-5 man roaming grp assisting the overall effort, to being part of a 10-12 man grp of DPS/Tank configuration. So AE hammer bombing, portal bombs etc…..basically zerg busting.

We stack/churn/buff/push/wipe…..stack/water/push wipe. For those of you familiar with this…….we are having a good deal of success with it.

I am feeling a bit lacking in how my spec is playing a part in the DPS portion of this process. I feel that since we are in the middle of the fight (as a group) very often, wells / power might make more sense.

With my current spec, I am often tabbing to find the right target to CB/Epi and know this lapse in time if hurting my DPS output. In the middle of a 20 v 20 ….seconds matter. Also, 18k health versus say 24-25k is also perhaps a weak point.

I tried doing research on Nem’s builds but since he views WvW as I described above (which is applicable is every situation by my new one), I am struggling to find a spec that relates to my role.

In addition that that, most builds discuss xPvP but nobody is discussing the role I am in, unless I have overlooked it.

Any help would be appreciated.

So I had a lvl 77 Focus drop and decided to swap it out for awhile to see how it “feels”.

I have a lot more to consider but my initial thoughts are as follows:

I really think the focus vs dagger discussion is a cooldown (ability uptime) discussion. So, the dggr 4 transfers condition(s) off of me and onto enemy. Well, if my heal is up, I want those conditions on me for optimal healing. If I am using BiP (Rennoko…I’m looking at you) the BiP + dggr 4 is nice. But , to work, you have to be in 900 range which removes some of the advantage from BiP as a 1200 range spell.

Now, with Focus, you have a chill / strip / DD spell at 900 range that you can follow with Epi to get an AE chill. This is obviously not better than CB / Epi combo. But, going back to the cooldown theme, if you find yourself waiting on CB to come off CD, you could mix in a Focus 4 + focus 5 + Epi while waiting for CB to come off. (Poor man’s CB)

With the CB cooldown being 40 seconds and the Focus 4/5 being 18/20 respectively, you could mix in Focus 4/5 between CB “dirty bomb” runs.

Also, on dggr 4, the blind only works until the next outgoing attack misses, then it is consumed / fades. In an active fight, you will likely have that consumed before you can spread it with Epi.

So let me break this down to make sure we know what we are getting / giving up:

-Focus 4+5+Epi gives us AE vuln (10 secs), AE Chill (5 secs), AE Regen (3 secs (if in range)), and 3% LF generation.

Dagger 4+5+Epi gives us AE weakness (10 secs), AE Bleed (10 secs (if tgt not capped)), Condition Removal (not ideal if heal is avail), AE Blind (VERY unlikely) and no LF generation.

Also note that the DD on Focus 5 scales with boon removal giving a higher damage celing than dagger DD.

Depending on where the bleed cap discussion goes, I think the current Chill vs Bleed goes to the Focus over dagger……what am I missing?

Rennoko.5731:

InWvW…..

RIght but remember the long cast time of focus 5. It is very long, and feels even longer in WvW. It could also be that I am just so used to dagger 5 that I have learned to lead it enough.

And from my perspective, a blind >>> vulnerability. Even all 12 stacks of vulnerability are less appealing to me than a blind. The condition transfer aspect and bounce are just additional perks. The big draw of focus 4 is the long regen uptime if you get the bounces back to you, which won’t happen at 900 range.

I am going to give it the good ol college try again either way, to see if I can get used to it. All the changes have convinced me to try a zerker or hybrid build seriously now with some ascended stuff… just deciding between zerker and rampager right now, and determining what I want to do.
…..

I agree….vuln is so bad it is not worth mentioning……the bleeds are better but the idea of chilling plus boon strip and nice DD is so appealing I WANT it to be better

Also, I am thinking of it as a small skirmish skill that could give me a bit of “hybrid” feel w/o giving up any of my condition build.

I am in love w this build and not interested in changing. But to have a small but of “burst” in small skirmish where I can combine DD with meaningful debuffing is appealing.

Love the discussion because my mind is far from made up…..

Rennoko.5731:

snip

(from a WvW perspective)

I understand now, but since Dagger 4 has a bounce that is not intended to come back to you anyway, it becomes a blind vs a vuln and the potential for regen (thiefs etc) when in closer than you would prefer.

The #5s become the trade an AE bleed and weakness for a chill with respectable dmg and boon removal.

I need to test focus 5 but dagger 5 is so slow that it is reasonable to miss 1/2 the time due to dodge etc. The radius of dggr 5 also seems to be smaller than the ground target reticle suggests as well.

Rennoko.5731:

I am up in the air on it for WvW…

On the one hand the boon removal from focus is VERY strong, but I strongly dislike focus 4, because I am never in range to get the bounce, as both sceptor and staff keep me farther away. I guess if you duo’ed with someone it would be much better, but I find myself 1vX all the time, and its not good for that.

……..

I am confused……focus 4 has the same range (900) as dagger 4 and all of the scepter spells. Why wouldn’t you get the bounce if you are in range to use either spell?

Ok, so does today’s patch make the focus attractive…….?

We have added chill with our duration add…..we have regen on #4 versus blind on dagger 4…..not to mention Epidemic (AE chill).

With the DD on focus 5 scaling w number of conditions on the target it seems like at least an even swap if not an upgrade.

Nem…….anyone???

leman.7682:

MeanMug.2630:

As always Rennoko, you are appreciated.

Now if you can tell me an easy way to get my Arah gear to transmute for its’ looks…..you will become legend.

I already have 3 pcs of TA gear and all this PvE is killing me….

As a word of comfort, I will say that I made a whole Arah armour and I hate it, it is okay for one day, but who likes to run around looking like a bag of potatoes?

Why not pick a more fabulous look?!

Oh man….what scepter is that on the left???

I will for sure put the Arah helm with my set…..really works on a Char.

UPDATE and question(s):

So I have almost finished running CoF for the skins over my plant gear. As of now I have full P/T/C exoitc armor, all Rabid accsy/amulet/rings and running on pizza.

Here is my questions:

-The Rabid accsy/rings etc come with empty jewel slots. I am using Rabid jewels that are not exotic. Is there something better that I am not aware of?

-I am really struggling to find weps on the TP for any less than 20 gold with P/T/C. I am aware of the dungeon ones but am up to my limit in PvE. Any good alternatives?

Finally, I am looking good in my CoF gear but looking for anyone else who has this to post a pic of their dye scheme. I am using Midnight Fire / Midnight Gold (on waist, chain and base of shoulders) / Burgandy (face and top of shoulders).

Thanks in advance!

Rennoko.5731:

I wish I had a good answer for you….(snip)

A man after my own heart.

Maybe I can find another set that I like and you can show me the ropes.

Until then, I will be the evil looking plant/Char running around in my TA gear.

I apologize in advance that I have not read all posts in the thread so forgive me if this has been mentioned. There seems to be a simple way to verify this in. As Rennoko mentioned, he has 100% bleed duration and uses a 60 second (big damage) bleed.

Rennoko, next time you are part of an SMC push, go into the lord room and apply only BiP on the lord and see how many ticks you get. (PvE use dungeon boss)

If the OP is right, you should not get all 60 ticks as BiP should get pushed off rather quickly. If you get the full duration, there may be a prioritization going on behind the scene.

If it is getting pushed off, you might want to join us on the Corrupt Boon train until it gets changed.

As always Rennoko, you are appreciated.

Now if you can tell me an easy way to get my Arah gear to transmute for its’ looks…..you will become legend.

I already have 3 pcs of TA gear and all this PvE is killing me….

Ok, so I thought of a question that I want some feedback on……

Assume I am in a 1v1 fight and my enemy is suffering from a 4 second fear (just for example). I decide to follow that up with a 2 second fear ability. Do I have to wait for the 4 second ability to run its’ course before applying the 2 second fear?

I realize stacking the abilities would run the risk of being wasted for a stun break etc…….I am just interested in whether applying a follow up fear, before the initial fear runts its’ course, works by adding the second fear on to the end, or is wasted beacuse the target is still suffering the initial fear.

I ask this because in, the example of a theif who can drop target by stealthing, stacking several fears would ensure a nice chunk of health coming off and the application of significant conditions before he could stealth.

If I have to wait to apply the subsequent fears, they will have a chance to counter me.

So I ding’d 80 on Wednesday and had enough Karma to get all of the Rabid rings, assy, trinket and back piece. (with Rabid jewels)

I have decided to farm TA for the gear w/ Nightmare runes and have selected Fear of Death in ‘SR’ over the CD reduction there.

Once I get the gear and weps and add pizza…..what am I missing?

I am 99% WvW and do a few dungeons from time to time but I think the issue is that we stand in the back casting spells that are subtle. Our damage and condition removal/transfer goes largely unseen as our damamge piles up little by little.

Only someone who has played a Necro understands how all those little things add up in a big way. It isn’t as obvious as a huge sword weilding warrior spinning 1000 rpm in front of everyone, so the 12 yr olds come to the conclusion that we aren’t effective.

I haven’t used this in SPVP, but have started paying closer attention to this since I replied to a similar thread.

As it relates to WvW, when it fails it is deffinately NOT a LoS or conal issue. I have had players all primed with boons, 10 feet in front of me, with neither of us dodging (in a map chokepoint) and POOF…..nothing.

I hate to lose this because it is a game changer when it works, but it feels like an engineer skill with how random it is.

Rennoko.5731:

…snip

Thanks a TON for this…….so your build still gets the 100 fear / 100 bleed and Nightmare runes would drop the bleeds to 90?

Ok, that just saved me a ton of TA runs

Keep it coming!!

Burjis.3087:

Unfortunately the order of whisper’s armor is rare. The best place to get a rabid exotic set is TA. What’s amazing about it is that they come with Nightmare runes
I however went with Arah armor set (except for the head) and got the runes separately from TA.

Love the Arah armor. Isn’t the stat distribution the same between the sets?

Which helm did you pick? Pics plz.

Rennoko.5731:

It is just rare. Presumably you want the best stuff available, which is exotic/ascended.

<<<<Look who wasn’t paying attention!

:)

Rennoko.5731:

The karma set is spread across several temple vendors (all different names), and I think it is only 5 or the 6 slots you need. You can check Dulfy.net, he has all the info there, plus the new info on the jewelry stuff you can get with karma for Rabid (Cond/prec/toughness). To get that last armor slot you can buy Khibron, or do twilights arbor dungeon for instance.

It is a lot of karma to do that, and since you can get rings//amulets/access. with RABID stats now, i would use my karma for that and then run dungeons for the rest of the armor. Those access slot items are only available either off the TP (expensive) or from these new temple items.

What about this set:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Order_of_Whispers_armor

Is less potent than the sets suggested?

Burjis.3087:

Nemesis, I am really happy to see this build. I’ve been using something quite similar to what you’re presenting here for a long time, long before the boost to terror, because it’s a very annoying build for the opponents. Of course, the new terror makes it much better.
However, I go with a different set of runes:
Superior Rune of the Nightmare
They give you 10% condition duration, but I use the Rare Veggie Pizza as food (40% condition duration, +70 Condition Damage). There you can get the additional 50% duration you need. But what is nice about the runes of nightmare is that it gives you an additional random fear (5% chance to cause fear when hit). This fear is AoE and 1 sec (2 sec with this build).
Also, the superiority of nightmare rune as compared to the rune of necromancer is that it increases the duration of all your conditions not just fear and if you use the top tier pizza, you won’t need the additional 10%.

This rune is a bit harder to get than the others as they only drop in TA or can be purchased with TA tokens.

All in all, I give a big thumbs up to this thread as the fearomancer (as I call it) is probably one of the strongest pvp builds for the necromancer in my opinion.

I love the sound of this……I am anxious to see Nem’s (and other) responses.

Ojimaru.8970:

The dude at 2:12, again the staff really doesnt help in close combat. When he turned into a dust storm or what ever it is, you could have switched to D shroud and used fear since you were already too close to start casting a mark.

That wouldn’t work because Tornado grants Stability while it is active.

Haven’t had time to watch the vids yet, but Corrupt Boon turns Stability into Fear…just sayn.

lettucemode.3789:

Psybunny.8906:

Sidenote: Is corrupt boon a bit buggy or am I missing something, because it seems to work reliably only with a 50% chance or so?

The area an enemy has to be in for it to work is a cone in front of your character. So if the person you are trying to cast it on is too far to the left or right of where your character is facing, it will miss. It can happen if you are circle-strafing around your opponent because your character is not necessarily facing the same way your camera is looking. This has been my experience with the spell. If you take the extra half a second to line your character up it won’t ever miss.

If this is accurate, then it is bugged. There is nothing in the skill description that specifies it as a conal attack.

Psybunny.8906:

Sidenote: Is corrupt boon a bit buggy or am I missing something, because it seems to work reliably only with a 50% chance or so?

I am not sure if it is bugged but I have always attributed the times it didn’t go off to my range from the target. I know when I am in range it works 100% that I have noticed.

Maybe someone can educate us whether it can be resisted/blocked.

Derk.3189:

Yes I agreed earlier that CB is great for reducing the effects of some elites, and it stops a few in its tracks. I did not discount that. But I think it becomes problematic if the theme of the build will bring about how you use the skill. I’d pick a boon loaded target who may not have stability, over a target with stability and nothing else, simply because I don’t think terror as the overarching concept is great for a build in WvW. I have also stated, this is vastly different in SPvP, where singular focused packets of damage is excellent.

Finally, I think just play it how you will. I’ve used a build similar to this before, around the time when Terror changed (you won’t catch me using Fear of Death though lol), and while its fun, in situations where AoE is crucial this build just doesn’t do it for me in WvW. Before the change 4 runes of Nightmare, 20 in spite and +50% fear duration trait was enough to get 2 ticks of terror, such that people discussed that the +50% fear duration trait is multiplicative.

After the change some people have noticed they can get 2 ticks of terror depending on how many conditions they have on the enemy, with just the +50% trait alone. Might be a glitch.

Derk…..thanks for that. I couldn’t agree more on the boon loaded target over a target with stability. I think I understand what you got from Nem’s post that I did not.

I am reading his examples as brief glimpses into how the build could play out in a real scenario. Also, I am kinda disregarding those examples and finding ways to tailor the tools in the build to my play style.

If you have a build you run, I would be very interested because I am not sold on the Fear on downed trait. As of now, the best alternative is DS abilities off CD a bit sooner.

I turned 42 today (went 20 in Curses and 10 in DM) with 4 afflicted runes and 2 krait and am really liking the fear damage mechanic.

Derk,

Thanks for the explantion. Admittedly, I may be reading Nemesis’s post differently then you and may be looking to get something else out of it.

Let me explain, when I read Nem’s assertion that you have six fears and that you can use them as a chain to counter an enemy and burn them down, I am reading how it is possible to use Fear offensively not a cookie cutter script on how I should use it every time.

I am not building my Necro toward this build so I can use even 4 of the Fears all the time. I am building my Necro this way because, for the investment into Fear, I have some very viable tools to use that work……well.

To get these tools, I only give up a bit of bleed duration that, based on the speed and chaos of WvW, I was not getting the benefit of anyway. So for me, the question isn’t, “Can I do exactly what Nem is proposing even 10% of the time?”…it is, “Do his example proviable viable scenarios where I can use the tools I am investing it?”.

The answer I have come to is “yes”. One big example that your scenarios left out is enemies popping their elite ability. Nem posted all of the elites that use stability (almost all) and to be able to counter an elite alone is powerful.

I am anxious to hear your thoughts.

Here is a question…….what if a player is feared and you Epidemic them. Will the players around him be feared and will they get the fear ticks?

Derk….I think you are misunderstanding him. He is saying that, in the situation where he fears an enemy, then the enemy breaks fear. The enemy then activates an ability which gives him (the enemy) stability to prevent Nemesis from cc’ing him.

Then Nemesis can use Corrupt Boon to convert that stability to another fear. I believe that you are incorrectly assuming that the fear break and stability are activated by the same ability.

Nemesis is pointing out all of the abilities, elites etc, that grant Stability that an enemy might use after breaking Fear, that can then be corrupted.

Atrabelos.7584:

Level 80 Charr necromancer master race representing from Sorrow’s Furnace.

What armor is this? Very nice!!

Rennoko.5731:

Just to note, my fear lasts the same length as yours. The max duration is 100%, and I hit that. The extra in your fear is a wasted stat.

In a less mobile situation the darkeness well is a good substitute for a movement skill, I completely agree on that. Its is the best well for a condition build defensively. Corruption boon over blood is power is a situational choice. My other guild necros mostly prefer the boon flip/epi trick on guardians in big fights, but I have gotten so used to dropping BIP immediately in fights I have a hard time missing the extra damage and the super long bleeds if they land on the fool who doesn’t run a condition clear (I am looking at you zerker mesmers).

So does Spect Walk allow you to do offensive spells while “walking” or does it just serve as a travel/return mechanic?

I really like BiP too, but I find that it has far less “withering” effect on a group than a massive CB/Epi move. The sudden inability to move, heals are halved and all those conditions on a player messes with people’s minds. Once panic sets in and the group mentality takes over, momentum can shift decisively.

I am set on CB and Epi…..I just need to decide between blinding well and Spec walk.

Scarran.9845:

Just for info incase anyone is trying to get the armour if you goto Orr karma merchants at the Cathedrals you can get a few of the Condition/Toughness/Precision armour for Karma.

Tactician Deathstrider at Cathedral of Glorious Victory (Straits of Devastation) does Helm, Mantle & Leggings
Historian Vermoth at Cathedral of Zephyrs (Malchor’s Leap) does Helm & Leggings
Lightbringer Brutefur at Cathedral of Eternal Radiance (Malchor’s Leap) does Helm & Leggings
Lightbringer Surefoot at Cathedral of Verdance (Cursed Shores) does Gloves
Keeper Jonez Deadrun at Cathedral of Silence (Cursed Shores) does Mantle, Gloves & Leggings
Crusader Benson at Arah Entrance (Cursed Shores) does Leggings.

The only two armour items you cant get for Karma is Garb and Shoes. But they should be easy to get via some Dungeon runs.

I also tried this build out and it is really good and you do some nice damage output. Survivability you have to watch when your in the thick of it and you need to be more aware of your surroundings than when in a full PVT build. But in full PVT you lack the damage that this brings and with this build your still tough enough and can still output a good bit of damage if played correctly with your rotations.

Scarran….thanks for this! Can you tell me the set names that these pieces are part of? I want to have a certain lok at 80 and would like to know how much I will need to transmute if I am mixing and matching.

Nemesis,

Please save your time/energy for this amazing and constructive discussion. I don’t want to discount SPECHL’s opinion, but THIS discussion is about your Fear build and we are all clear that he disagrees with it as a viable build. No need to continue to address his doubts/concerns.

So, as I see it, the ONLY difference in your build and Rennoko’s is Soul Reaping (10) and Rune selection. Is that right? I am building toward a Fear build and don’t want to overlook any subtle differences.

Thanks again for your contributions!

ratmanduohana.6824:

If you ask me, you’re mindset is above 90% of the people who actually play Wv3, so keep it up.

I use a classic conditionmancer with a twist, because it’s better for small figths, in a “zergy” kind of battle the Wellmancer with IX Curses is the best.

I have failed to find better builds for those two Wv3 situations.

Ty sir….you are too kind.

Also, one might be able to find this ‘Wellmancer’ build where? Do share….

Rennoko.5731:

-Snip…back at ya

Well, the survivability comes in when you may be going to/from and objective and solo roaming thiefs etc will want to stop you from getting back to the fight. Alternatively, there are those who will notice me playing around the fringes of a battle to get those “dirty bombs” set up and jump me.

What I want is to incorporate a few of those fears (4 sec fear….woot) and survivability while being able to maintain my playstyle, which I see as meaningful in the “big picture”.

Quillix…thanks for that comprehensive input. Do you have a WvW build that you suggest?

Rennoko….thanks for that explanation. Your logic is sound. On that note, perhaps I should discuss my playstyle and see if you (Nemesis, others) have thoughts on the direction I can get the most from my build (hybrid, CM, pwr etc).

I view WvW much like Nemesis’s WvW “ownage” video….ie it is a large scale objective and not reduced to random 1v1 in the field. I play with the big picture in mind

Let’s take a known area, for example, and I will describe what I consider my playstyle:

So, my team has taken the Ogre camp in Eternal BG and we have set up siege in the camp to assault Ogrewatch keep. The enemy is pressing to get into the Ogre camp to kill the siege.

As a Necro, I feel I am most valuable by sustained pressure on selected targets. My role is to prevent the enemy from gaining/keeping momentum in a given fight.

I will use the doorway (chokepoints) to keep Staff 2,3,4,5 down for area denial. I will then use Scepter 1,2,/dggr 5 to stack conditions on the most aggressive targets. I will scroll through targets looking for a few key things:

1- Players with low health. They will likely be retreating and make great “dirty bombs” that walk back to their friends as I Epidemic them

2- Gurdians. They will almost always pop all of their Boons as they rush in. I will use Corrupt Boon and Epidemic. (Haven’t decide whether I will keep CB but when it works…..it WORKS)

3- Any player with a large quantity of buffs/cond to corrupt/speread. When Corrupt Boon is on CD, I will use Epidemic on players with lots of conditions as it comes off CD.

Now, once I get a big hit off on an Epidemic something interesting happens almost every time. This is a bit outside just gaming and translates to real world scenarios but stay with me…… if the front line of an offensive pushes toward a conflict, those behind them will follow. If ONE person turns to run away, just about everyone does.

Once that BIG Epidemic hits (say a Guardian Corrupt Boon / Epidemic at full boon) the front lines of that group withers heavily. I then push into that and begin using DS 4 to further pressure. Almost without fail, I have a surge follow me and all that is left is to loot the bags and regroup.

Very frequently, I will rush a grp of downed players and use DS4 to help finish them to save the CD on my Scepter skills that have added effects (cripple etc) that would be better used on active enemies.

Another example…..I will go into a keep Scepter 2, dggr 5 on the inside of the door and then DS 4 through the door. I often use this on the outside of a keep as we assault (stand close to the wall) forcing wall defenders to either back off the edge or get close to the edge to target me.

So, although I am heavy conditions, I do use some of the pwr necro stuff to add some short term sustained pressure. I don’t want to give it up because I see the psychology of all the numbers on players screens influencing their behavior. That behavior translates into impatcing the “big picture” of WvW……

So how to I maximize my playstyle….or am I hopelessly lost?

Thanks in advance!!!!!

Rennoko.5731:

I would love to do a video one day, but considering how much suffering my computer does when the screen has more than 4 sprites rendering at the same time, it may be a while. My build is as follows, and I was running it even pre-terror buff.

0 Spite
30 Curses
Hemophilia, Terror, Lingering Curses
20 Death Magic
Greater Marks, Reapers Protection (can swap this with staff CD for PVE)
0 Blood
20 Soul Reaping
Path of Midnight, Master of Terror

Utility: Epidemic, Blood is Power, Sign. Locust/spectral walk, Plague Form

I run all Condition/Toughness/Prec gear, occasionally with the fractal rings that give Cond/Vitality/Toughness if I feel squishy.

Sceptor MH/Dagger OH : Staff

The stats are the same as was linked in the nem build above more or less. Runes are as follows:

2xAfflicted
2xKrait
2xMad King

Superior Sigil of Earth in both staff and MH, with Sigil of corruption in the dagger.

---

Rare veggie pizza (40% duration + 70 cond).

Freqenty use of DS2, and DS3 are part of what I think makes this build shine in WvW. Getting in the mix makes your reapers protection almost guaranteed to hit a few people, and then they run for 4 seconds if they don’t have a fear break. Chills and cripples last a very long time.

To be honest though, this build doesn’t work well in spvp at all, because losing the 40% duration on all fears/bleeds/conditions is a massive hit to a build that focuses only on conditions. Also your condition damage is so much lower in Spvp.

Terror/barbed precision are very reliable sources of damage in wvw, and losing that extra second tick on each of those effects hurts badly. To get long enough durations in Spvp you would have to change up traits and runes.

In my opinion the above gets a nice mix of defense and offense, and really only falls short against the dreaded inanimate object. If big or small groups the greatest control you have is over spreading conditions, and this maximizes those conditions without giving up your bleed and fear damage.

Awesome man….tyvm for writing this up.

One thought: Have you considered ‘Unyielding Blast’ for Soul Reaping 10? I know on my Engi that piercing projectiles is severely underrated in group / chokepoint fights. Not only does it hit multiple targets but, on the necro, it add Vuln and bleeds on crits……

I don’t know if this would be as impressive as my Engi but, compared to 15% cooldown improvement, I’d like to hear your thoughts.