Guild Wars 2

Dan.2940:

khani.4786:

Dan.2940:

I only addressed people who want the chest at the end of my post, that way i wouldn’t have to post another response to explain myself to them too. I’m sorry, did you say the jump puzzle reeks of PvP? In WvW? That can’t be possible! Do you think people who like PvP want to step into the land of PvE and do those achievements? No, but we do them anyways because guess why. We don’t have a choice either.

You know…I don’t see a single PvP or WvW achievement mingled in with the PvE ones. You can ignore the PvE achievements like us PvErs ignore those in the WvW and PvP sections.

But yet again to get the PvE achievements for the living story we have to deal with people who have nothing better to do than to hide in the dark and kill people that can’t see them.

Uhm. What. “You can ignore the PvE achievements like us PvErs ignore those in the WvW and PvP sections.” Thats what i said to you, but with regards to PvErs avoiding the PvP achievements? But on that note, what about the living story acheivements which are PvE and you get a cool reward for doing them? Like the shattered dragon wings, do you think i wanted to sit there walking up to pinatas and pressing ‘f’ for an hour? No, but i wanted the wings, and there was no PvP way of getting them.
Also, how would you NOT consider this acheivement a PvP one? It’s in WvW is it not? This achievement isn’t required to gain anything other than 20 points, unless you’re OCD and need ALL of the achievements, in which case, you have no choice.

^
What he said, Pvp’ers are forced to PvE when they want something for that particular content. So if you have to take your time to get one achievement which isn’t even needed for the big overall meta achievement, then don’t do it.

Mimir.4690:

/snip

Depending what world you are on, I would gladly help you get there. ^.^ Even if you would be one of the worlds we are up against. You did know there are several positions within OS where you can get an invisibility buff for about 3-5min? Makes it a whole lot easier as well.

@Dan You hit the nail right on the head.
@GSSBlunaspike Sorry but that quote made you sound more like a smart-kitten then an honest replier. WvW might have PvE aspects but the main focus is Player versus Player which is PvP, go google it you might actually understand it afterwards.

@Mimir You are right that they don’t have to deal with campers, but they do have to deal with other stuff that get on their nerves, which might range from stupidity in dungeons to not being able to dodge a simple AoE on the ground which is highlighted to make it easier.

You are now asking Anet to change their view on the game and the aspects (PvE & PvP) to cater to more casual players than they already do. The living story events have been around for a month or so, with a small update 2 weeks in. Even a casual player like a guildy of mine who plays probably 2hours 3x a week is still able to get most of the achievements for the living story events and he did the OS cache yesterday during prime-time while being baited and attacked, asked for help in his friendlist and the guild and before they knew it they had 12 people who needed the cache and got victorious in the end.

All I am saying here is that if people would rather put their energy and time in completing OS or any other achievement that is outside of their comfort zone, instead of whine and dining on the forums they would have already gotten it. And yes I know some guilds and people are out to give people a hard time to get the achievement, but isn’t it more fun to say in the end ‘hahaha your gank party is broken and we got our achievement :P’ instead of ‘I am to scared to go to OS cause I will get ganked.’?

Imho A-net made the decision to put the cache and the kite in OS for a reason, which reason we might not know but they did. So we gotta live with it, or not accomplish the achievement. That’s it! Demanding or providing feedback based on your own oppinion without knowing the backbone breaking decision of ‘why’ they put it there in the first place just undermines their capabilities of making decisions. And developers that would read those topics and comments would probably lose an hour or 2 sleep over it, since they do make this game to give us fun.

@rfdarko I understand everything you are saying but even with all of your idea’s with won’t change my mind at all. Some achievements have to be out of reach where people have to step out of their own comfort zone in order to get it. i.e Unfriendly Skies, that achievement could only be gotten if you had the right party, the right determination and the right mechanics memorized. Probably a large amount of players didn’t get that achievement cause it was ‘to hard’.

In all honesty it wasn’t, maybe for them it was, but are they entitled to the achievement because it is outside of their comfort zone and skill? If so, why not hand them out when you login in the first place?

I hate running AC with a passion for example, and in order to get what I need and to have a party that I trust, that can do the job and will be fun, I have to run AC with my guild cause that is the only thing they are interested in aparently. If an achievement would be inside AC in the next patch, I would man up, gather people and bite through the sour apple just to get it.

And that is the same thing this is, you don’t need a large guild to complete OS just a bunch of friends who know their class and you can do it. And if you see lots of people of a server in front of you and you don’t trust it, stay back and defend the point for others to go through and wait till the group up front has passed on so you can go there, and rince repeat. At max, with friends who never ever done the OS jumping puzzle, it took us an hour with them falling like crazy, running into lots of groups with and without PvP battles, having fun at the traps and getting through the dark room.

But to get back to what Elshagan said, Pvp’ers are semi-forced into PvE (if for WvW only just to get gear and mats and shizz). So why not let PvE’ers enter WvW from time to time for a simple achievement?

rfdarko.4639:

I didn’t say I need to get the achievement, I said you need to get all 7 for the meta.

I get and appreciate the argument that 15 achievement points is not that much. But to me changing the meta achievement to 6/7 would only be a good thing, and would prevent a lot of needless frustration. It wouldn’t take anything away from wvw players, because they could still get the achievement, and have to do one less pve JP. Unless there is a very strong argument against it, I don’t see what would be wrong with that solution. Yes, I’ll live. But why shouldn’t I suggest something that could be better, which benefits everyone? I’m not whining, I’m providing feedback with a positive suggestion. I’m not sure that “just deal with it” really adds to the conversation.

So what you are saying is, make the achievement even easier to get so it caters more to the casual player that already gets everything handed on a silver platter by a butler with the name of Alfred?

Common. I bet you, that if a mayority of the players weren’t able to get the cache in OS in the first place they wouldn’t have but the Kite in their obsolete meta achievement in the first place. It saves alot of headache for some people, but taking it away from OS and the ‘a’ meta achievement might ruin the fun for others since you actually have to work for it, instead of pick your nose and wait for it to pop up.

I for one enjoy it, and I know many people who do so to. And taking that away from ‘a’ meta achievement gives them no reason to go there in the first place, it is challenging when people are around and fun and can end up in funny situations where you will do a deskface with laughter.

rfdarko.4639:

MinorDetail.9204:

rfdarko.4639:

MinorDetail.9204:

rfdarko.4639:

MinorDetail.9204:

rfdarko.4639:

I don’t get this supposed counter argument that pvp is excluded from loving story. That’s not the complaint. No one is asking to take the wvw achiement out – they just want it out of the meta achievement of which 6/7 is pve. I would be all for a wvw exclusive meta achievement – have caches all over wvw for people to collect. That would be awesome. The complaint is the mix of pve and wvw under a single meta.

If iirc it isn’t even in the meta achievement.

It is – spotting all the kites gets you a meta achievement, very similar to the aether blade caches (Learn to Kite).

Every single kite is an achievement by itself, and learn to kite is if you have found them all. So if you have i.e 7 kites to find you have 7 achievements + learn to kite = 8.

EDIT: used the right numbers from the dulfy achievement overview guide.

Exactly..so you agree with me, the individual kite achievements add into a meta achievement. …?

No it’s not, if you need 16 achievements to get the meta and there are 24, means you can miss 8 of them, not getting the WvW kite means you will lose one, and not able to complete Learn to Kite, so that leaves you with 22 achievements left to do.

22/16 is more than you need in the first place so you don’t NEED to do the WvW kite in order to get the meta achievement!

No, but you need it to get Learn to Kite. Thus why I said 6/7, not x/ 16.

Rephrase that, you ‘want’ to get Learn to Kite, you don’t ‘need’ to get it.

rfdarko.4639:

MinorDetail.9204:

rfdarko.4639:

MinorDetail.9204:

rfdarko.4639:

I don’t get this supposed counter argument that pvp is excluded from loving story. That’s not the complaint. No one is asking to take the wvw achiement out – they just want it out of the meta achievement of which 6/7 is pve. I would be all for a wvw exclusive meta achievement – have caches all over wvw for people to collect. That would be awesome. The complaint is the mix of pve and wvw under a single meta.

If iirc it isn’t even in the meta achievement.

It is – spotting all the kites gets you a meta achievement, very similar to the aether blade caches (Learn to Kite).

Every single kite is an achievement by itself, and learn to kite is if you have found them all. So if you have i.e 7 kites to find you have 7 achievements + learn to kite = 8.

EDIT: used the right numbers from the dulfy achievement overview guide.

Exactly..so you agree with me, the individual kite achievements add into a meta achievement. …?

No it’s not, if you need 16 achievements to get the meta and there are 24, means you can miss 8 of them, not getting the WvW kite means you will lose one, and not able to complete Learn to Kite, so that leaves you with 22 achievements left to do.

22/16 is more than you need in the first place so you don’t NEED to do the WvW kite in order to get the meta achievement!

EDIT: Dude, no offense but you are breaking boundries here. You are now arguing on a level we had before, it is A meta achievement and if people want it and are able to they will get it. If people can’t do it, they won’t. And for those who can’t, they will still get THE meta achievement anyways. So what is the problem besides 20-30points of achievement?

rfdarko.4639:

MinorDetail.9204:

rfdarko.4639:

I don’t get this supposed counter argument that pvp is excluded from loving story. That’s not the complaint. No one is asking to take the wvw achiement out – they just want it out of the meta achievement of which 6/7 is pve. I would be all for a wvw exclusive meta achievement – have caches all over wvw for people to collect. That would be awesome. The complaint is the mix of pve and wvw under a single meta.

If iirc it isn’t even in the meta achievement.

It is – spotting all the kites gets you a meta achievement, very similar to the aether blade caches (Learn to Kite).

Every single kite is an achievement by itself, and learn to kite is if you have found them all. So if you have i.e 7 kites to find you have 7 achievements + learn to kite = 8.

EDIT: used the right numbers from the dulfy achievement overview guide.
EDIT2: Seriously now that I am reading this achievement overview guide from the first page properly, has anyone read it completely? Cause if so go and read it again! Even in the ‘meta achievement’ overview at the top it lists more achievements than you need for the meta achievement.

rfdarko.4639:

I don’t get this supposed counter argument that pvp is excluded from loving story. That’s not the complaint. No one is asking to take the wvw achiement out – they just want it out of the meta achievement of which 6/7 is pve. I would be all for a wvw exclusive meta achievement – have caches all over wvw for people to collect. That would be awesome. The complaint is the mix of pve and wvw under a single meta.

If iirc it isn’t even in the meta achievement.
You need 16 achievements for the meta and there are 26. So how is the WvW kite tied in with the meta?

So if that was the case of this topic, can we close it now and move on? ^.^

Dedlaw.9130:

MinorDetail.9204:

Dedlaw.9130:

My problem is with people like him that do it purely out of spitefulness and taking pleasure out of other people’s suffering. I do not and never will condone that.

Isn’t that what PvP is essentially about anyways? Even in sPvP or WvW, people like to kill off people. And even if Elshagan would do it out of spite, there are 10’s of others within the OS that would eat him raw for breakfast. Just don’t expect to do it solo if you have anyone in there like Elshagan.

The difference between camping OS and just about every other form of PvP in the game is that you are denying other players access to something that has no consequence for you.

Once per day badges and blueprints? It’s ten times easier just to earn them through regular WvW.

You gain nothing by camping other than the enjoyment out of of making other people miserable. And that is not what any form of PvP is suppose to be about

I don’t want to start the whole ’it’s you card’, you are right I agree with that. But if people are becoming miserable from getting killed within a pvp jumping puzzle, isn’t that kinda their own problem?

Don’t get me wrong I get the frustration, I have screamed on TS alot of times during OS, especially when it wasn’t a seperate area and you had to walk all the way back to find the keep not in your factions control. But once I noticed it was getting the better of me I left and came back at a different time or date to finish it off with a fresh mind.

So many things to-do within the game that gives people enjoyment and if 1 lowsy achievement, that probably isn’t either needed or can be skipped without getting the full meta achievement, can ruin your day by getting killed within a, and hence the word, PVP Jumping Puzzle I would second your thoughts and maybe leave the whole achievement for what it is?

@Dedlaw same as the message I said before, but maybe this is fun for someone within a game. Who are you to decide they ‘want’ to make people feel miserable, maybe they are there cause they got ganked and it’s a stress relief? So many factors in play, which none of us can judge anyone for.

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

MinorDetail.9204:

How many patches recently Anet has brought out that catered to the PvP’ers?

There have been PvP activities for almost all of the releases. I think Flame and Frost was the only chapter without one. (Sky Pirates didn’t have a dedicated PvP addition but Dragonball is still up and running.)

But there is something that I don’t understand when PvP and WvW players complain about being forces into PvE for achievements:

I don’t play PvE because the monsters are easier kills (in fact, I enjoy a bit of sPvP here and there). I play it because I am interested in the world, the lore, the story. I talk to the NPCs and immerse myself in Tyria. Players who spend 95% of their time in PvP and WvW are obviously more interested in combat and mechanics than story and dialogue. And that’s fine. But living story is living story. Why would you suddenly want to be included when you’ve already chosen to stay out of the world story?

If you are pulling the living story element here, isn’t the living story to change the ‘world’ of Tyria? Isn’t WvW part of Tyria? So why not put something in there since it is ‘the living world’? Don’t get me wrong, like i said above, I understand but to make such a fuzz out of 1 achievement is going a bit to far for me. 1 achievement out of how many are there to complete? Common guys, we got better things to do then worry about 1 achievement right? I mean Canada has a flood now, Egypt is almost in another Civil war, and we are here complaining about an achievement in a game.

@Pixelpumpkin P.s: Even though I do pvp more often then I PvE, i got all of the living story achievements upto this date, every single one of them.

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

I will be able to do it, mostly because I’m better than those noobs. I still feel incredibly bad for people that aren’t. it makes no sense to me that Anet would put yet another pve achievement in wvw. They are just fools to do this. We don’t want PvE players in WvW, and they don’t want to come there. Sure it sucks that they get rewarded for our hard work, but let them enjoy what they like. Anet needs to stop trying to force the groups together. Some enjoy both (me) awesome, some one or the other. It’s not Anets role to try and tell us what we should enjoy.

How many patches recently Anet has brought out that catered to the PvP’ers? Really. The fact that the kite achievement is in the Obsidium Sanctum makes it a PvP achievement not a PvE achievement by default.

And the fact that OS is now a seperate area from the EB makes it a pvp jumping puzzle mainly, not really part of WvW anymore besides that you need to take the gate and that the rewards are for WvW, and some PvE gear.

And what you are saying is that Anet chooses what ‘we’ should enjoy, how are you to tell Anet what you should be entitled to when they entended something completely different?

I think that we are more or less dealing with a community that is used to getting everything handed on a silver platter than an actual community who likes a challenge in the game. One achievement is making a worldy impact which is probably 20 points, which is less then completing your monthly? Let the achievement be hard for some people, let it be in OS. Let the people who actually have fun doing OS have a reward in the end instead of just a chest. ^.^

Dedlaw.9130:

My problem is with people like him that do it purely out of spitefulness and taking pleasure out of other people’s suffering. I do not and never will condone that.

Isn’t that what PvP is essentially about anyways? Even in sPvP or WvW, people like to kill off people. And even if Elshagan would do it out of spite, there are 10’s of others within the OS that would eat him raw for breakfast. Just don’t expect to do it solo if you have anyone in there like Elshagan.

NoobOnSteroid.7192:

MinorDetail.9204:

Everyone within Obsidium Sanctum, 1v1 as equal chances of winning. So mostly ‘griefing’ is out of the picture already, unless the guys is camping you on purpose, and only you.

There are plenty of choke points where even 1v1 would be terribly unfair. I got attacked by a ranger standing on top of the rocks of the chandelier room (just after the dark room). I was pretty much dead by the time I was halfway towards his position. I ducked for cover under the entrance, and then the rest of his guild party swooped in to finish me off (hammer warrior, elementalist and necromancer). At half health versus 4 people, it was hardly a fair fight.

I enjoy WvW, and do it from time to time, either in guild groups, in zergs or roaming solo. But I’d never roam around the JP to kill people. There will always be griefers around looking for easy kills. There’s no need denying that.

Just for the record, I’m not against the achievement. It takes some organization to do, but so do dungeons. So just gather a (large) group, or risk being ganked.

Your reply makes no sense at all, the ranger I could understand but the 4v1 not being a fair fight. It’s a open PvP map, it could have been different where 4v1 would be on your side, would you still say ‘oh we shouldn’t do this, it’s an unfair fight.’ I rather think you laugh your butt off behind your screen saying ‘oh if he had only just ran away’.

Xenon.4537:

What is the definition of “achievement”? If the achievement is to do a thing and you can’t achieve that, then why should you be entitled to the credit? If you can’t do it, you can’t do it. There are some things in life people can and can’t do. Think of this one as a challenge of patience. The other players sitting there ganking are part of this challenge. Accept it.

They didn’t make the last one mandatory for any rewards, so I doubt this one will be mandatory. Skip it if you don’t like it.

^
Well said!

aspirine.6852:

MinorDetail.9204:

Fact to the matter is, Pvp’ers, like Elshagan said, are forced to PvE if they want to participate in the new content. So why not see some leisure towards them and at least let them have a cache or achievement in their ‘world’ so to say. If you want the achievement so bad, ask for help and go with a 10 or more odd people. You will defo survive until the end.

afaik we do not try to harras or grieve PvP players that come to join PvE?

Obsidium Sanctum is a PvP Jumping Puzzle, and people who are into PvP will kill-on-sight if they want to kill someone. They cannot see from their screen behind yours if you are an experienced PvP’er or not. If A-net intended for Obsidium Sanctum to be a normal jumping puzzle they wouldn’t have put it in the WvW area to begin with.

Yet people saying it is impossible, if you really want the achievement that badly you will get it no matter what. But with everything I have seen from the forums or from in-game PvE’ers want everything handed on a platter with minimal activities. I.E: Unfriendly Skies achievement, easily doable yet people flamed about it 24/7.

So my advice to everyone who is against the whole achievement inside Obsidium Sanctum, and is getting killed alot. Get some friends out, do it together. The moment a griefer/ganker sees 10 people coming at him he will think twice before attacking.

Dedlaw.9130:

MinorDetail.9204:

Fact to the matter is, Pvp’ers, like Elshagan said, are forced to PvE if they want to participate in the new content.

The difference being the PvE’ers don’t try and kill him when he does

In one of his messages he did say he would leave them alone. But rather after some arguments on the forums he made it his new goal. I do PvP within Obsidium Sanctum too, but only when threatened or attacked first. But once I do have to attack, anyone in sight at that point in time is dead. It’s the way it works in WvW or PvP, you have to look out for yourself.

And if PvE’ers don’t fight back, ofcourse they don’t stand a chance. See the story below, everyone within Obsidium Sanctum, 1v1 as equal chances of winning. So mostly ‘griefing’ is out of the picture already, unless the guys is camping you on purpose, and only you.

Oh and, I actually got killed once by a new player to WvW cause he thought I was gonna attack him. So don’t go and say this is all griefers, sometimes it might even be new people defending themselves since they can’t see or hear what your intentions are. (I got killed by being pushed off a rock xD lol never forget that epic moment)

Honestly guys, this again? I normally don’t post on forums I rather read but there are 10’s of threads about this same topic, why make a new one every single time for the same subject. Complaining or giving your oppinion in a destructive manner about the achievements in Obsidium Sanctum.

I for one, do not PvP in Obsidian, because I am there just for the jumping and guess what, I got it in one go on each and every one of my characters a couple of days ago during primetime. So either I was really lucky or I have charisma that they leave me alone!

Fact to the matter is, Pvp’ers, like Elshagan said, are forced to PvE if they want to participate in the new content. So why not see some leisure towards them and at least let them have a cache or achievement in their ‘world’ so to say. If you want the achievement so bad, ask for help and go with a 10 or more odd people. You will defo survive until the end.