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Condition Duration: A Re-examination

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: NatureNinga.1258

NatureNinga.1258

If you take it your way, yes, people are overrating condition damage. But the reason why some people ‘supposedly’ doubles the equation in your equivalency trap is that they count cycles, not minutes.

You state that in a 1 20 second condition, you can put that damage in a heavier hitting 10 second bleeds [double the damage for half the time]. Therefore in any given minute, the 10 second condition will do more damage than the 20 second one. That is true in the sense that in the same allotted time you can put it in on and off. However, what people are talking about is not DPS, its the actual numbers in a fight.

For example, if someone was fighting Sabetha, a relatively stationary boss with no condi cleanses, which one will do better? Sinister or Vipers. For short fights its obviously going to be Sinister but in raid situations its not as simple. All of your logic traps can be rebutted by ‘cycles’ or the application of conditions. Given two builds [Sinister vs Viper] of the same class and playstyle, they will apply their conditions EXACTLY the same. There is no change in gameplay in the differing build. Sabetha has a timer of ~9 minutes so lets take that as an example.

Using an example of a 10 second base bleed, people with 100% condition duration will do 20 seconds. If both builds attack with a frequency of 1 application per second, then the Sinister gear will reach 10 stacks maximum after 10 seconds for these 9 minutes and the Viper gear will reach 20 stacks after 20 seconds. With my understanding of your logic, the DPS of the Viper gear is lower than the Sinister gear as the buildup + the damage you do is less than the sinister gear. And you would be right, if this battle was like 1 minute. Then the next minute comes. Both start of with their full stacks. Who would do more damage?

From the wiki, it states that bleeds do [(0.06 * Condition Damage) + 22 damage per stack per second,]. If you look at the wording, it states ‘per stack’. What does more damage? 1 stack of bleeding that does 100 damage per stack or 2 stacks of bleeding that does 70 damage per stack? 100 vs 140. Your traps become negligible in raid situations because of this. Maintaining 10 stacks for ~470 seconds will do less damage than maintaining 20 stacks for ~450 seconds. This is why people calculate the theoretical DPS. Because in practice it makes sense.

Your traps make no sense in bossing situations because they are countered after 2 minutes into the battle. The product trap is countered by the fact that both builds apply it at the same frequency. Using your example, One lasts 5s but is worth 110/per second and nne lasts 60s but is worth 22/per second. In the first 60 seconds or so, your theory can make sense but after they are fully applied at a frequency of 1 application per second, 5 stacks of 110 550 vs 60 stacks of 22 1320. The ‘trap’ in this doesnt apply as both builds apply the EXACT same frequency of conditions, just a minute later.

This also counters the interval trap you state. Taking the DPS right as the setup is done will result in Viper doing much more damage, since there are essentially double the stacks than the Sinister armor. Sure, the setup stage will do less damage. However, this is less than 10% of the total fight. The rest of the battle is the ‘theoretical’ calculations that the ‘fooled’ people hope for.

The expansion trap is a strong argument in shorter fights such as pvp and trash mobs but does not apply in bosses for the exact same reason above. It accounts for less than 10% of the whole battle. Additionally, the same can be said for a full condition damage build. Are your calculations for full condition damage accounting for the buildup at the beginning of the fight? Try calculating it for an extended amount of time, not for just 60 seconds.

The trap of equivalency is explained above. In the first minute of the DPS calculations, your calculations make sense. But after that minute, Condition duration is superior as you can times the equation by 2 since they are already there. There’s no setup: the stacks are already there.

In conclusion your argument can make sense in short fights/PvP. It makes sense with all of the condition removal/setup time. However, in the places that advocate condition duration over condi damage, the reason is not because of the duration, but the stacks after the setup (which account for ~10% max of the battle).

TL;DR : Condition Duration<Condition Damage<Condition Stacks