You don’t have to consistently outnumber it, though. Interrupt mesmers eat Necros of any variety for breakfast. Hambow warriors are a lot more viable than people give them credit for and wreck Necros (again, of any form) day in and day out. HGH Engies do well against the Cele Signet Necro.
There are a number of builds that can 1v1 the meta Necro and win. You can also easily out-rotate it. Let’s say you personally don’t think you can beat a Necro. You can just give up the point and give your team the advantage elsewhere, possibly nabbing the 2 point advantage. The Necro doesn’t have the option to do that; most professions could cap a point he just abandoned before he could reach a teamfight, making his rotation a poor choice
And yeah, Cele Ele can 1v2 just fine for quite a long time.
Basically, Necro can never be “the new ele” because the profession has very clear strengths and weaknesses that can also be avoided and exploited respectively. It is good at what it does, and Reaper takes that to a whole new level, but what it does not do is also very impactful on a fight.
I wouldn’t say that for sure it depends on the player. Ele can sustain 1v2 for a bit, so can an engi, guardian and necro, they cant win it though obviously so there’s no point in calling out whos good at 1v2. If a thief goes to backcap a point where a necro was just at, the correct rotation wouldn’t be to send the necro back there, it would be to send your own thief. Just because it’s responsible for a node doesn’t mean its always suppose to be there.
Coverage assignments get switched on the fly, only the best know how to adjust to them though.
Really good teams rotate out whichever class is best depending on whos moving. Yeah a thief is faster but sending your necro to run after it is not efficient, you would send your thief.
Necro’s average mobility isn’t as big of a factor as u think. Good positioning and awareness are always enough
Nothing can 1v2, and yeah of course its going to have a hard time when being outnumbered/focused, you can say that about any class. The fact that it requires so much attention from multiple people is what bothers me. I do agree that in big team fights it does fall off a bit but many times its a 2v2 or 3v3 at most. Although there are weaknesses to it the fact that a team has to outnumber it constantly in order to bring it down proves how strong the state of the class is at the moment. And reaper on top of it all makes the class almost a near necessity to have as you are always dealing with boons and sustain types.
Theory is all cool and beans, sadly the reality is that it’s not a 1v1 mode, this is conquest, and you WILL get +1’d by thieves or mesmers, you WILL have to play unfavorable matchup (for exemple I consistently destroy necros as a dps war, can’t say the same against ele though) and when this will happen, you won’t be able to disengage because you’re not an ele.
And Ele doesn’t only have a port to disengage, get real… They have air#4 and burning speed, and if somehow this is still not enough, they have FGS.
And as a side note, Ele can manage 1v2 way better and for way longer.
Funny, cause you’ve been using it yourself..hypocrite. Yes I’m pretty sure I do know Ele has more than port, which isn’t going to do much with movement impeding conditions and CC on you. You’re sadly mistaken if you think necro doesn’t have good sustain, especially after the recent life force changes. The fact that you would even get +1’d means that you’re winning the fight or winning somewhere else since it’s 1v2. Either way its a win, not to mention just getting someone else to rotate over. You kill necros on your warr? cool I’ve killed warrs on my necro, very subjective. I think you’ve been on the ele bandwagon a little too long. Even the top ele’s in this game think it got shafted this recent patch and needs a buff.
What ? Where did I say something that’s only theory ? Getting +1’d doesn’t mean your team is winning somewhere else, it might mean someone died so someone in their team could rotate …
I’ve also never said necros have bad sustain …
And even if I think so, i’ve also not said ele is OP because it’s not the subject. I’ve only pointed out the very obvious flaw cele necro have that D/D ele doesn’t. (Which is, I repeat since you don’t seem to understand : an ele can pick the fights he wants, a necro cannot.) Which means necro is not, and will never be the new ele.
If your’e getting outnumbered theres an opening somewhere. If they +1 you they leave someone else outnumbered or a free point which means you’re winning somewhere. Even if you’re 4v5 there can still be an opening if you play 2 points and force the 5th to come over so you can backcap. And no, YOU don’t understand. An ele cannot pick a fight on just anyone. It cannot pick a fight with a necro because it counters it. Even engineers can kill elementalists. Both ele and engi heavily rely on boons and have limited condition clear which is why necro is so good against them, making it the dominant point holder over both of them. Ele is not the dominant point holder like it was in the past I’m sorry.
I feel like you’re not even reading what i’m typing. I’m only gonna say it one more time :
1st, getting +1’d doesn’t mean your team is winning somewhere. It usually means the opposite. For exemple you’re 1v1ing on a side point, someone dies on your team mid, which free someone from their team to roam and +1 you.
Other possible situation is someone on a class that can disengage (like a D/D ele) was getting 2v1 on a points, so he left the point and +1’d you to get something out of it.
2nd. I didn’t say an ele SHOULD pick any fight he wants. I said he CAN. An ele shouldnt, but he CAN pick a fight with a necro. A necro cannot force an ele to fight him. Even if he can force him out of point, ele will just leave and +1 somewhere else, outrating the necro with bad mobility.
If the ele is getting +1’d he CAN disengage, necro cannot. If a class that beats necro in 1v1 wants to engage the necro, necro can’t run away, ele can.
Do you get it now, or still not ? Because I’m not gonna say it another time.
Lol, please child, don’t be some sort of pseudo intellectual with me. I even posted that 4v5 situation because I knew you were gonna come up with some bs someone dying and then this happens situation. And you just proved my point again, an ele CAN engage on a necro, an ele CAN run away, but it still didn’t WIN the fight and point. You act like ele’s mobility skills have no cooldown and that they will always be up 100% of the time. You think the necro is stupid and will just stay on point after cap? Just follow the ele to where it just +1’d if it starts running away. And no, just give up I don’t get your pleb logic. I know what I’ve seen admin’ing games, and talking to what some of the top players on stream and in this game think. I believe them a little more than you. Remind me, who you are again
Theory is all cool and beans, sadly the reality is that it’s not a 1v1 mode, this is conquest, and you WILL get +1’d by thieves or mesmers, you WILL have to play unfavorable matchup (for exemple I consistently destroy necros as a dps war, can’t say the same against ele though) and when this will happen, you won’t be able to disengage because you’re not an ele.
And Ele doesn’t only have a port to disengage, get real… They have air#4 and burning speed, and if somehow this is still not enough, they have FGS.
And as a side note, Ele can manage 1v2 way better and for way longer.
Funny, cause you’ve been using it yourself..hypocrite. Yes I’m pretty sure I do know Ele has more than port, which isn’t going to do much with movement impeding conditions and CC on you. You’re sadly mistaken if you think necro doesn’t have good sustain, especially after the recent life force changes. The fact that you would even get +1’d means that you’re winning the fight or winning somewhere else since it’s 1v2. Either way its a win, not to mention just getting someone else to rotate over. You kill necros on your warr? cool I’ve killed warrs on my necro, very subjective. I think you’ve been on the ele bandwagon a little too long. Even the top ele’s in this game think it got shafted this recent patch and needs a buff.
What ? Where did I say something that’s only theory ? Getting +1’d doesn’t mean your team is winning somewhere else, it might mean someone died so someone in their team could rotate …
I’ve also never said necros have bad sustain …
And even if I think so, i’ve also not said ele is OP because it’s not the subject. I’ve only pointed out the very obvious flaw cele necro have that D/D ele doesn’t. (Which is, I repeat since you don’t seem to understand : an ele can pick the fights he wants, a necro cannot.) Which means necro is not, and will never be the new ele.
If your’e getting outnumbered theres an opening somewhere. If they +1 you they leave someone else outnumbered or a free point which means you’re winning somewhere. Even if you’re 4v5 there can still be an opening if you play 2 points and force the 5th to come over so you can backcap. And no, YOU don’t understand. An ele cannot pick a fight on just anyone. It cannot pick a fight with a necro because it counters it. Even engineers can kill elementalists. Both ele and engi heavily rely on boons and have limited condition clear which is why necro is so good against them, making it the dominant point holder over both of them. Ele is not the dominant point holder like it was in the past I’m sorry.
nope. ele is the new ele, its still the same ele as pre-patch ele, which was the super-buffed version of the previous ele that was the ele of its time, been going on for years really. Though once HoT comes out, ele will be the new ele but it gets new armour and weapon skins so things will change from aesthetic perspective.
Yes an Elementalist is an Elementalist, just like it’s counter (and any other celestial users counter) Necromancer is a Necromancer. Nerf to fire, less damage, less vigor uptime, but yes the ele that cannot kill anything now is still same ele
Theory is all cool and beans, sadly the reality is that it’s not a 1v1 mode, this is conquest, and you WILL get +1’d by thieves or mesmers, you WILL have to play unfavorable matchup (for exemple I consistently destroy necros as a dps war, can’t say the same against ele though) and when this will happen, you won’t be able to disengage because you’re not an ele.
And Ele doesn’t only have a port to disengage, get real… They have air#4 and burning speed, and if somehow this is still not enough, they have FGS.
And as a side note, Ele can manage 1v2 way better and for way longer.
Funny, cause you’ve been using it yourself..hypocrite. Yes I’m pretty sure I do know Ele has more than port, which isn’t going to do much with movement impeding conditions and CC on you. You’re sadly mistaken if you think necro doesn’t have good sustain, especially after the recent life force changes. The fact that you would even get +1’d means that you’re winning the fight or winning somewhere else since it’s 1v2. Either way its a win, not to mention just getting someone else to rotate over. You kill necros on your warr? cool I’ve killed warrs on my necro, very subjective. I think you’ve been on the ele bandwagon a little too long. Even the top ele’s in this game think it got shafted this recent patch and needs a buff.
Which is nothing compared to Ele’s mobility. Also just a movespeed buff doesn’t allow you to disengage so you just die if you get +1’d. Also way easier to focus in teamfight since you can’t escape.
This is from an even matchup perspective like a said in the OP. If you get +1’d that’s your teams fault for not rotating properly. Really? I’ve seen plenty of D/D ele’s getting melted by condition cleave and boon corruption in team fights. That port away isnt going to save you from the condis ticking about to kill you.
And I don’t understand what map/rotational awareness has to do with it. Do you think ele players have a bad map awareness ?
He was saying that other classes have mechanics such as ports which expose necro’s mobility. I said that because ports alone aren’t going to win you that. Simple map awareness can render those abilities to be not as useful as they seem on paper. This is why teams have thieves and such to help with this matter. You don’t just win against a necro by simply juking it out, especially when the top necros (or players) in this game are smarter than that. You still have to win fights. I’ve seen & hosted games with very “slow/immobile” type bruiser comps and they keep up with very rotation heavy 2 point comps at the highest level, they keep up even with mesmer portal.
A properly played cele signet necro is indeed formidable on point (probably even better then a ele depending on the matchup). But the thing is that is suppossed to be their strength. Slow moving but tanky and sustainy. Necros essentially give up mobility/disengage for a strong point presence.
You’re aware that top tier players who play cele necro have a 25% movement speed signet and have superb map/rotational awareness right?
Yes but 25% or 33% (warhorn has swiftness) movment speed is still overshadowed by teleports, leaps, shadow steps etc. Apart from maybe guardians all other professions are faster then a necro.
You’re only taking into account pure movement capability and not fighting capability on point, sure a class with a port mechanic might be able to slip past and maybe get a decap but they wont be able to win the fight for the full cap on point. There are times when fights are even in numbers all across the map and you have no choice but to contest for the point or just leave and surrender it to the opposing team. Necro mobility isn’t the greatest but it’s good enough.
A properly played cele signet necro is indeed formidable on point (probably even better then a ele depending on the matchup). But the thing is that is suppossed to be their strength. Slow moving but tanky and sustainy. Necros essentially give up mobility/disengage for a strong point presence.
You’re aware that top tier players who play cele necro have a 25% movement speed signet and have superb map/rotational awareness right?
This isn’t about Guardian having issues with necromancers, you already proved my point that more guardians were coming into play because of necro. This isn’t about engi holding off an ele, it’s about ele/engi against necromancer. And I have to disagree with elementalist being hard to counterplay, you listed 3 classes that do well against it.
Personally I find that Necromancers are a tougher fight than D/D Elementalists. I’m basing this on a 1v1 on point basis – the condi transfer/control seems way too much for other “cele”/ point holding classes such as engi or ele to handle making necro a good if not ideal matchup against them. Yes you could outnumber the necro to kill it but in the grand scheme of things that is a loss overall if the other team knows how to play your aggression correctly. I noticed a lot more guardians coming into play and I do think that one of the reasons why is because engi/ele are having a harder time holding point against necro after the recent patch. I was really hoping that Revenant would be the class to add a little counter play to this whole equation but after the recent nerf to Mallyx I’m not so sure anymore. Really the only solution I can think of atm (other than using necro/mulitple necros yourself) would be a well played zerker comp which may feature a support guardian in order to make necro condi manipulation less effective. I’m not crying nerf or anything, just brainstorming ways around it.
Trying to compose a highly competitive team for future Tournaments and regular TPvP play. LF players who are very competent with their class in a TPvP environment. I’d rather have people play on their main instead of alting to fill a team need because the main is what the individual does best.
- At least 3 days of practice a week, times to be decided (I understand we all have lives)
- Must be mature…play with a little class guys, don’t be a kid
- I want this to be a very close group so we can learn each others strengths and weaknesses and eventually learn how to cover for each other
- Must be competent in TPvP strategy/rotations
- Must be competent with the role that the class is optimal for in TPvP
- Synchronization will come once team is assembled
- This is going to be OUR team so we will decide together on the name of it
- Must be very team oriented, able to communicate on Mumble/TS
PM/Add New Trier in game so we can run a couple games together.
- Please Post the ONE main class you will use for the team, a little about yourself/build/experience
- Guardian, Champion Paragon, 813 wins
- 22 y/o recent College grad, Hometown/Location: Princeton NJ
- (Interesting fact) Use to run dungeons with APeX’s Qt Hman in our former MMO DCUO before Guild Wars
I love being the spearhead of a zerg/group c: Nothing better than jumping right into an enemy zerg hitting Shelter and RF and watching the block/invul. text spam lol. I always looked at guard as having one of the larger skill curves just because there is no true escape mechanism and anti-burst/heals/condi. removal/boons must be timed very well while sustaining enough dps to actually kill someone
Quite a few guards I’ve talked to in-game have this sort of elitist mentality about guardian and how they’re just so intellectually superior from the meta game of dps/conditions..but hey i cant blame them lol – go blue
Been following this for about a year now, great setup. Alot of interchangeable parts making it viable for all phases of the game. Sometimes I like to swap in shield for focus in sPVP. I find myself living longer in sPVP with this than some of the pure bunker stuff I’ve tried. With everyone so condition crazy nowadays I tend to swap in Contemplation of Purity for SYG or SY. Idk why people are talking about necros being so OP, this build can counter them pretty easily imo :> And of course its nice being at the front of zergs all the time with the perma swiftness, GS 3 and Sword 2 skills
