Guild Wars 2

Yeah, I was there the whole event made sure I did not miss it then game client crashed within the last pursuit phase, logged back into another overflow where the event was over. /sigh

Korrigan.4837:

What a surprise, whining about something “too hard” for some people.

First, let me tell you I haven’t managed to complete the tower yet. I’m still trying, in short sessions. I find it challenging and interesting, games NEED stuff you don’t complete on the first try.

Second… it’s not mandatory at all to complete. Not even for the “Emissary of the Mad King” achievement. You do NOT need it.

The latest MMORPG player generations seem to think everything in game must be able to be completed by them without breaking a sweat. I say ANet, do NOT cater to those spoiled players – keep on adding stuff some will not be able to complete easily. Something to look forward to.

I don’t belong to the latest generation at all and I don’t want it easy. The claim of that is as generic as old. Most players vocal about difficulties do have a very differentiated opinion on what constitutes as hard. I have been playing platform games since back on the Amiga which were ruthless and I beat them. Why? Because the chance to win was granted by the mechanics while the rest was taken care of by the invisible layer incl. QoL features.

That layer being visible and part of the game mechanic is exactly what is causing the problem. I would never blame my lack of timing, my lack of coordination and force direction on the game. But when among all these things to master I have to add mastery of camera orientation, acting partially blind (which is almost military skill requirement) and avoiding invisible collision zones then this becomes a very frustrating experience.

You are right that it is optional and in fact playing this game is optional. But that is not part of the issue, the worst thing which may happen is if Anet is ignoring this because some players dismiss these issues as non-existent or not as aggravating as those suffering from it. I want a challenge but I want it based on the same mechanics as they are in the world already and I mean that in an uplifted form so if it is fast-paced I am absolutely fine with it. But I don’t want glaring design issues which also exist in the real world also added in an ‘uplifted’ form to it.

Korrigan.4837:

@Ravenblade – then just don’t do it. As I said, it’s not mandatory. There’s a ton of other content you can enjoy. Fact is, not every single piece of content added to a game as large as a MMORPG has to be tailored to be fun for YOU – there will always be tons of other people who will enjoy it.

All the issues you list (camera orientation, acting partially blind (which is almost military skill requirement) and avoiding invisible collision zones) are only YOU failing, and not the game’s fault. I have guildies who already done it, and none mentioned the problems you list. I’ve made it pretty high in the tower even though I’m not done yet, and I never noticed those problems either.

PEBCAK (Problem Exists Between Chair And Keyboard). Practice more, improve, and you’ll do it… or just do something else, as it’s not a mandatory activity.

No doubt a lot people have done it, there is always someone who stands out as proof. You are still reading my post as “I want it easy” and that’s not fair because as I have repeatedly stated I don’t want that. Everyone experiences the issues differently just as every human being is different. The camera issues are even an acknowledged problem and it would have been a surprise if they vanished just for this content, the differently sized characters is a byproduct of design and would not be an issue for those having issues with if people could space out a little bit more and as someone working with 3D design for almost 15 years now it’s no surprise if geometrical issues exist they are however fairly easy addressed.

However as I have emphasized already it shouldn’t be up to the player mastering these three metagame aspects. Yes, I will go back and try it until I have done it but I will still come back kindly pointing out these issues. Because otherwise I am fine with the encounter. Besides if you had read my initial posting on this you would have seen that I am never backing down on a challenge even if it’s culminating into silly scales on a personal level. I am usually no quitter even if things aren’t perfect. Although I don’t understand why people would be so adversed against alleviations. After all it’s also beneficial for those already fine without them taking away any form of the challenge they liked unless these issues were part of it. It would be a win-win from my point of view.

Korrigan.4837:

The clock tower has a few characteristics:
- It’s harder than your average jumping puzzles. This is good for those who breezed through the other puzzles.

Which is what I am fine with as well! I fully understand even the design behind this.

- It’s in no way mandatory to complete the full Halloween event, or even the “Emissary of the Mad King” achievement. At no point you are stuck with “must do the clock” to be able to fully enjoy the rest of the content.

Which is what I have addressed as well. Simply put I am fine with it the problem is that my issues have nothing to do with optional or not. Because even in an optional state they should not exist in this manner. So people willing to do optional content shouldn’t opt out on the basis that they can’t enjoy the challenge because it is buried beneath technical issues.
If it were a normal jumping puzzle I’d just come back when I got the nerves for it but for a seasonal one with a 1 year lockout? That’s preprogrammed frustration.

For info, I’ve started working with 3D graphics on an Amiga something like 25+ years ago, and I my work in part consists in programming real time 3D effects for video and movies. I’ve seen no 3D problem in this puzzle, and I play a Norn.

See, we are not so far apart then. Despite me mentioning gaming on it I programmed far more on it. My daily’s job is revolving around 3D and 3D programming (apps) and I am familiar with OpenGL. Now that we have exchanged credentials I want to add that I play an Asura. A small statued one even. So I am seeing camera issues and obstruction a lot.

So yes, I disagree with the people asking for this or that part of content to be nerfed or changed just because they didn’t manage to do it. And I repeat, I’m in the same camp for now, didn’t do it yet, and I possibly won’t manage to do it. I still don’t go out of my way and ask ANet to nerf it – because fact is many people did it, some even repeated it several times, so it CAN be done.

If you have understood my agenda so far you would know by now that I am actually not even remotely asking for a nerf
All I am asking for is that they iron out the technical/QoL issues for the next time while retaining the intended level of challenge. That’s basically it in a nutshell.
All of the things I am mentioning have been mentioned in chat while I have been trying this with groups. So I am not just purely talking out of selfish motives to have an easy game here. In addition to that the camera issue is known already and the effects of character stacking known since MMOs exist.

http://i.imgur.com/pscWi.jpg

I am the Asura in the front center in the image above.

I really think the tower is a cool idea. A fast-paced event with no room for slacking. It’s however immensely confusing when your character is occluded. The camera issue has cost me many tries as well and I have tried every camera trick so far it just won’t stick. I am also running with the new vertical FOV setting activated.

There more justified issues. Why are you so defensive anyway? Fixing the technical issues which have even been acknowledged by the designer won’t break any challenge. It may just make people who could do it in singleplayer also beat it or are you afraid that the mysterious 5% suddenly becomes a disappointing 100%? Which I can assure you it won’t. Also because you are not experiencing things at the same severity does not mean it’s not justified. It applies to all things in life. Luckily the decision about whether some complaint is justified or not is up to the developers not the players. So I don’t see what the reason is behind insulting players and calling them feeble and whatnot. I don’t agree with their complaints about difficulty either, doesn’t mean I am going to drop the hammer on them.

No, the zerg is a byproduct of their limitations. It was supposed to be singleplayer but technically impossible right now.

If plans have to be changed they are usually getting called liars and pony-promise-breakers. For a lot there is never enough information aka lend them a finger and they want to bite your hand. You can’t really say they are not talking about plans, they are just talking about the plans they can actually execute.

Also we can all agree that we don’t really all agree on everything.

Astrid Crow.1275:

I really don’t see the big problem here.
Yes it’s a hard puzzle, took me about 1.5 hours to do, don’t expect to do it in a few minutes.
I didn’t notice a big camera problem, what control settings are you all using? I have it set so I just hold right click and move my mouse to turn, that way I wan just hold ‘W’ down and keep turning my mouse to navigate the puzzle.
The problem of other characters shouldn’t matter once you’re past the first section because if you aren’t at the front of the pack you simply aren’t going fast enough, you’ll never make it anyway.

You might not have experienced the camera issue but others have. Others are also more sensitive to it. I am sensitive to it as well for the reason explained in my initial posting in this thread. I have tried playing zoomed out to max. (which I still prefer), zoomed in, camera right, left and center, free camera/fixed camera. The camera would still focus on the edge like when doing the first jump to that stair-like block making it wobble back and forth rapidly. That is highly irritating and frustrating. If it were a camera with proper behaviour then it would not even flinch and keep that distance

The second suggestion is a bit off. I am always jumping ahead and miss that jump more often than not if my toon was occluded. So I followed the most common suggestion of waiting 1s – which is still a compensable amount of time – until the big guys jumped. The problem is that this assumes the big guys have lightning fast jumping reflexes but more often than not if playing with other big guys the “I can’t see my feet!” issue is also a problem for them. So the jump becomes an uncoordinated mess – exactly the opposite what a jumping puzzle is about.

I think you’re all just trying to justify your inability to do the puzzle.

If it were just as easy to simplify that then I would simplify it like that. I am very capable of self-criticism and I can shake head about myself. I don’t need other people to fill that role for me. I don’t see why people are so eagerly defensive about their previous challenge thingie anyway. It’s not going away if you fix those issues but I can finally have a chance to improve based on my own failings. The very essence platform/arcade games are about.

SW:TOR forums were worse than this actually. I pretty much feared if they kept up that anger and vitriol the fabrics between reality and the Warp would breach and create a rift unleashing the forces of Chaos upon the world.

WoW forums are usually a pool of anger but it’s died down over the years but it was very much the same in the beginning. Rift forums were also rife with controversial debates.

I pretty much think it’s the usual suspects here, inbetween jaded MMO nomads who can’t be stimulated into a positive reaction anymore and people experiencing withdrawals after hype levels in their bloods are dropping you usually have a bunch of constructive posts. Usually your sight may however be clouded at those because of the monsoon of negativity which is blocking your sight.

As a person which is affected by a motor skill disorder I can sympathize with the issues. Here the challenge becomes a real challenge because you absolutely have to focus and coordinate harder. However I enjoy a good challenge even under such circumstances and despite all this I tend to play the role of a sniper in FPS games.

With that said I think the problem should not be a decrease in difficulty as a whole.
But the whole encounter feels like a raid with a mini-lockout on a boss.

First I am suggesting to remove the ooze and have the ground pieces you stand on vanish the same way as they appeared. You could really have a time window depending on the length of the piece for both appearing and disappearing which means the player still has a lot of time to coordinate, jump and collect their bearings. This would also remove the need for a timer because now each ground piece to jump on is on a different timer.

Secondly I suggest all races being turned into a random ooze at the beginning with your own one being a red ooze and all others shown as transparent greenish version. At the risk of being asked what I am smoking: It removes the character size issues and does not remove ooze from the design formula. It also removes the character occlusion/obstruction issues.

Thirdly the camera issues need to be resolved. It feels like the final boss of the encounter really because a lot tries I have failed were because the camera locked onto an edge of a model and I had to wiggle around to get it back in place and thus losing time. It’s really not fun doing jumping puzzles with that camera in general. Least of it this tone.

I believe that’s all there needs to be done and turned into what I believe a fun encounter. I am sure I will go back and try again but not as form of fun or entertainment but as challenge to beat in order to get those 10 achievement points.

Twaddlefish.6537:

Ravenblade, I am sorry to hear about your disability and I do hope you have been enjoying the events thus far.

As fair as your ideas sound, it would mean they’d have to completely rehash a puzzle that they’ve probably been working on since well before release in an afternoon for that will only be up for Halloween week.

I didn’t really have issues with the camera, right-click and move the mouse, adjust on straight parts.

I usually don’t even mention it because people tend not to notice it unless taking a jab at my performance because I have to work twice as hard to achieve what others see as norm. I’ve raided with this in WoW, healed and tanked, and that’s because I’ve learned to accept the challenge in itself. However since you are more vulnerable to distracting/obstructing factors in these situations your performance rapidly declines as their impact adds up exponentially.

The biggest issue I am seeing is: Crowd-jumping while nothing new is one major factor, everyone who’s done encounters like Thaddius knows that but here the designers were aware of it by splitting up the number of people and allowing spacing out as well adding no time constraint to it. The thinking is that everyone jumps as you do and they jump as everyone does which means there’s a chain-lagged reaction which gets visual obstruction by bigger characters super-imposed on it because you have to time your jump on based on the timing of others while not knowing where your character is looking at. Therefore this enforced break as everyone rushes to the same spot at the same time is the first hurdle. The question is: Is this design really without alternative? Is it intended with the side-effects and negative factors in mind?

But you are right it would require a rehash but I would not suggest it if I hadn’t seen developer companies overhauling a design based on feedback. It’s part of the iteration and they have got a whole year to do that. I realize the principle of the encounter is that the whole group gets one try and then resets which is fine on paper and would work out if they addressed camera issues which exist and are completely randomly occurring (unless someone has a secret recipe for how to make the camera stick). Also the character obstruction issue needs to be tweaked, heck it would be as simple as making all ground pieces to jump on visible from the start.