Guild Wars 2

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

My question is this: if one is going to quit and get a refund, won’t their account here be terminated and they no longer be able to express their dissatisfaction on the official forums?

This account got a refund and I can still log in and post.

Deactivated accounts can be used on the forums to ask for support obviously.
Unless they’ll change that now.

Loosifah.4739:

I can tell you now they’re not going to scrap Ascension gear and infusions. It won’t be added in sPvP and tPvP, but it’s coming.

So you guys have 2 choices.

a> grin and bear it, and hope they keep their word about no gear treadmill

or

b> leave and if you’re from europe try to get a refund after 600+ hours(which I think is stupid that you can do that).

Stupid?
Do be careful where you step, we’re actually quote proud of our consumer law.

But okay, I agree full refund after 3 months of play seems unfair.
How long would I play? If for 7.5 years, Id pay 10eur a year, no expansions included. Seems long, lets make it 3 years 9 months for 20eur a year. This means 5eur for 3 months – sure, I’ll take only my 70eur back.

Why?
Because I purchased a long-term service but the terms were changed significantly and pretty soon. Actually, I’m really happy I live in a place where law offers me protection from companies who think they can do whatever they can after the payment has been issued. I think it’s only fair.

xelynruk.6983:

There’s quite a bit of misconception in the notion that Anet should reverse course due to player dissatisfaction. While Anet may take player opinions into account when making decisions about the direction of the game, their ultimate goal will assumably be to better the game. This goal will at times run contradictory to the thoughts of the player base since they have access to information, including future releases, that we do not as players.

Take into account, for instance, the release of updated AI or general enemy mob stats and mechanics. Players at present may not be able to keep pace with more volatile combat, and slight improvements to armor and stats can help aleviate that stress without forcing dramatic improvements in player skill or playstyle. An additional armor tier is welcome under those conditions, noting that any item based addition to the game should still reinforce player skill improvement.

That said, we know that these items will be released. What matters now is the way in which Anet chooses to implement the gear. Lowering the barrier for acquiring these items will not only catalyze player adoption of the new tier, it will also serve to lower the barrier of entry for new content and new dungeons.

GW2 is still an infant in the gaming world, and a massive one at that. It will take a great deal of time for Anet to mature it to what it will eventually become. You can climb aboard the QQ-betrayal-train and watch it eventually derail, but there’s nothing to lose by waiting to see how Anet chooses to implement “progress.” Some of us from 05 have seen Anet make what we would consider mistakes, but GW1 turned out to be a relatively beautiful game for its time. It’s more than likely that GW2 will fair similar storms to a brighter horizon.

You’re correct in most of your post, but your last paragraph doesn’t deal with the problem.
People bought the game because they were promissed and reasurred that the game will offer X and will let go of the Y trend of MMOs. Really, skim them thread, multitude of people say this was one of the most important selling point for them.

Now, just after 3 months, when they managed to invest time, effort and real money into the game, they are getting informed that the game will no longer offer X, but Y.

We don’t want to wait and see how ANet will implement gear treadmill, becaue we don’t want gear treadmill, why is it so hard to understand?
It doesn’t matter how you name it, how slow you implement it – that’s not what we bough, not what we paid for. If we wanted treadmill, we’d go to other games that offer it.

pregnable.1954:

xelynruk.6983:

pregnable.1954:

All transmutation stones used on items that players thought were top tier will be wasted, because they now need a new tier to have maxed armor and use more transmutation stones.

It’s doubtful that most players would feel those transmutation stones were wasted at the time in which they were consumed. Those transmutation stones cannot be recovered; so, why waste the effort thinking about them.

pregnable.1954:

WvW uses pve gear so all sets of max level exotic gear will be trash and WvW players will have to farm new armor.

WvW players will simply be in the same boat that other pve players in that they have better chances than those with non-exotic sets to gain new armor.

pregnable.1954:

I just noticed that the few people on here defending and calling concerns QQing have only posted in this thread… as if the account is new… and if you point that out the post is somehow deleted… hmmm…

Seems like your posts are still there.

The point is that they are losing out on transmutation stones, which is real money, and they are losing max level gear, because it will no longer be max level gear. I am only answering what they are losing because the question was asked.

It would be funny to be the guy that made a bunch of exotic gear sets and used transmutation stones JUST BEFORE lost shores new tier info came out. That would be comedy.

My posts are not all there. Some were totally deleted as if they never existed. Unless they were deleted and I am the only one who can not see them because of some bug. Either way it does not matter, not really that important lol.

my girlfriend did:
On the day that the gear was announced she picked up her last Exotic jewlery piece from TP, after completing her armour and weapon sets (each weapon her Mesmer can use, including 2 swords, one for offhand) and transmuting every single transmutable item for looks.

How she feels?
She got so upset she managed to get herself banned from this forum for infractions.
It is not really comical for us.

Urmomzbf.2640:

For all the people who are complaining “GW2 is going against their word! NO! YOU CANT DO THIS??!! You are creating the gear grind you promised wouldn’t happennnn!!!!” Please think before you speak. It isn’t hard to obtain any gear including Exotics (apart from Legendaries which are only better cosmetically). It isn’t a gear grind. It’s just a twist to the game to make dungeons more exciting and add difficulty due to the “scaling to how you play” not the gear. The game STILL isn’t gear based, just skill based. . .

Sure, and that’s why to even stand a chance against the deeper levels of the new dungeon, you need the new, improved, Ascended gear with the new Infusion! More to come!

In case you didn’t gather my sarcasm: what you said is completely not true any more.

Sam.4728:

Godorn.2931:

Umm ok. So let me translate. Hi, we think your stupid. Never mind that we lied.

Depressing isn’t it?

This worst part of this story, though, isn’t how this affects the players. We only lost a few times $60 and some cash on gems. There will be other games. Some might even do what Arenanet promised to do.

The real tragedy is for the developers. I guarantee that the core developers behind the GW2 concept hate this change as much as we do. They spent years and years of their lives building an epic game in line with their philosophy. Why the sudden change? Do you really think the hard working, forward-looking developers made this change? No. It was the business side of the game. Those developers are probably even more depressed than the player base.

I expect droves of developers will be leaving Arenanet soon, due to management forcing them to destroy the game they love. There was probably a dramatic behind the scenes fight, but in the end, you can’t fight the people who pay for your house and your family. Pay attention to where the original GW2 developer teams goes. Perhaps they will find a home with a business partner that doesn’t screw them.

Until they come up with a better ideas and decide to build an even superior sequel to their original plan, for which they’ll need better funding, so they’ll sell their… oh wait, deja vu.

I was thinking exactly the same thing and to be honest, it gets even more depressing.
But this all is speculation that will never be confirmed. I myself have started noticing some substantial, worrying changes to what I believed to be GW2 design principles around June 2012, but well, speculation as well.

I can only really talk about what I do see:
other changes were small. This is a 180 on the fundamentals and in the end, as a player and customer, I don’t care why, I care about the outcome.

Jairyn.6913:

We don’t want to add a gear treadmill, so we’re adding a gear treadmill and calling it “item progression.”

“We founded ArenaNet to innovate” by trying to copy the worst part of every other MMO?

…and also invent new terms to describe the same old thing and try to mask it as something else, new and innovative.

It would be quite funny actually if I wasn’t involved*.

*haven’t spent money, time and effort on this game

http://morgaren.hubpages.com/hub/Content-Locust-How-They-Change-The-MMO-Landscape

The problem with content locust is far reaching. At the very top of the list, they blow through a game developers took years to make in a matter of weeks. Then this very vocal part of the community then generally go on the forums and say two things,

That this game has nothing to do at the end game.

It is too easy, and there is no challenge.

This affects the game in one major way, for casuals to hardcore gamers when choosing a new game to purchase or resubscribe to, a common first step is to check out the forums and see what is being said. Since content locust are so vocal about their triumphs and how easy it was, it turns a lot of new players off to the idea of the game, and that cost the game company revenue.

It also is demoralizing to the community in general. Casual and dedicated gamers by far make up the majority of almost any games population. I would say easily 90% but I really don’t have any research to prove this other than more than a decade of personal observation. But when these elite gamer snobs (another term for content locust) go on and on about how simple and easy something a large portion of the community is struggling with, or possibly doing, but it is far from simple to them, it makes them not want to try, and certainly not want to do anything more difficult.

Over time difficulty changes as well. When the vocal feedback constantly says “this was too easy” and casuals and dedicated gamers don’t voice out enough and say “It was just right” or “It was too hard” a game company is eventually going to make a correction in the difficulty, which will ultimately not make the content locust happy, because once they have mastered the new content, they will be discontented again, and it will lock a large portion of the player base out of content they used to see, but now is too difficult.

This will make them quit, the company looses money, which makes development more difficult. While they had the resources to recoup, the change in World of Warcraft from Wrath of the Lich King, to Cataclysm is a very good example of this.

This is so spot on it’s obviousness hurts. I agree with every single statement made in that article and for me, this is exactly what happened here in GW2.
Why did a company like ANet, with so many years of experience and Blizzard experience to build on fell for that? :/

I find it quite ironic whenever someone clueless posts “don’t cave to the vocal minority” in this subject. Are you aware of the two simple facts that:

-the game you bought was developed for half a decade, marketed and sold as one that will defy the so called holy mechanics of other MMOs, including holy trinity and vertical gear progression?

-the vertical progression was added because ANet already caved in to the “vocal minority” that requested vertical gear progression in the first place?
There was plenty of character progression in this game, just not vertical

Snerf.1650:

Darkmoon Mist Raven.5913:

this kitten storm could have been, and could still be, easily averted : keep the patch the same, with the ascented gear, and just remove the stat increase.

SOLVED. now everyone can get excited about the patch content !

i’ll take the job, thank you.

You are absolutely correct.

And it’s a solution many of us have suggested. It’s so simple that it can’t be a case of them not thinking about it. Which means that it was likely a very deliberate decision to include it.

Is it one that they are flexible with? I don’t know, I guess we will find out in the coming days.

This would not solve every issue people have with Ascended gear, though definitely quite a few.

People would still have to upgrade / change their gear because of the new mechanic, if the wanted to deal with Agony.
A lot of people are complaining because they invested time and effort in Exotic items being led to believe this is the top tier. I for one would not buy full Exotic set, including all weapons my character can use unless I actually use them regularly, and I would definitely not transmute everything with Fine Stones if I was lead to suspect in any way there would be a new gear tier.

I would much prefer them drop the idea completely, and if it;s too late for that: not adding any more gear type than the one planned for that update (so no Ascended gear apart from rings and back), preferably removing the stat difference as well.

Morpeth.5318:

“absolutely no vertical progression” Are you freaking kidding? So that fact you knew from day 1 that game had 80 levels, and you’d start at Level 1… didn’t strike you as ‘vertical progression’ Did you expect to wear the same gear at Level 1 as you would as Level 80? Seriously?

How is going from 1-80 “absolutely no vertical progression”? That’s the VERY definition of vertical progression. Either you don’t understand English, didn’t read a single thing about the game, or are just lying. This is the kind of hyperbole I’m talking about.

Where did you take the from level 1 from? I would assume that – given the 7.5k post long thread about new gear tier at level cap when it was promised by the devs there would be no vertical gear progression after level cap, just like in it’s predecessor I don’t have to mention every single aspect of the situation over and over again and that people can fill in some gaps.

Perspective?

I bought a product that was supposed to have horizontal progression in it and absolutely no vertical progression.

but after I paid, suddenly I’m being server stuff with vertical progression.
So it’s okay because the price was lower than other games?
What exactly am I supposed to put in perspective?
I made an informed purchase, I’ve consulted all available sources to make sure I’ll get horizontal progression and no vertical progression!

I’m glad you like vertical progression better than horizontal progression, but while you might feel like a lottery winner when you got your favourite type of game while paying for something that was to be completely different (why didn’t you read product description I don’t know), the vertical progression is something I want nothing to do with whatsoever.
There is absolutely nothing to put into perspective here.

Lemuria.3195:

Am I the only one looking forward to this gear? First off, there’s only going to be a ring and a back slot initially, so all the doomsayers can cease their worrying. Secondly, it provides level 80 players with some new goals to achieve. Goodness forbid you should actually have something to look forward to in a game.

As it stands, this new gear won’t provide any major benefits over Exotic gear aside from the ability to survive the new dungeons and some slight stat increase. Judging by the images, it’s soulbound on acquisition, so won’t impact the economy and likely only acquired by having taken part in the new Fractals areas, which you’ll probably want exotics for anyway.

For all the MMO games which have a logical progression of gear, you’re really getting your rage on when Guild Wars follows suit.

First off, there’s only going to be a ring and a back slot initially, so all the doomsayers can cease their worrying.
People who are opposed to vertical progression, for different reasons, really don’t care it “it’s just a ring initially” when it’s already confirmed other slots and tiers will come.

Goodness forbid you should actually have something to look forward to in a game. Not everyone is looking forward to constant gear improvement. Heavens forbit someone looked forward to something else in the game than you!

As it stands, this new gear won’t provide any major benefits over Exotic 8% in stats increase plus ability to Infuse. Both Infusion and tiers of Ascended gear will be further built on to provide more benefits.

For all the MMO games which have a logical progression of gear, you’re really getting your rage on when Guild Wars follows suit.
GW2 was meant not to be like other MMOs. It was advertised as the game to end vertical progression and all the other silly things other games took for granted. You did not read the label when you bought the game?

penatbater.4710:

I’m pretty sure we will see soon “LFM frac level 10 only, must have asc”. It kinda reminds me of “LFM cof explo war/guardians only please!” except the difference is, the latter is made by a group of noobs who don’t realize you can ideally complete any dungeon with any prof mix-up, and the latter can really be a real, scary, valid reason.

Don’t forget the “Must have minimum Tier 3 Infusion!”
In a game that proudly denounced “LF1M Healer, no CC”. Quite sad I must say.

Snerf.1650:

Something along the lines of “We understand concerns over implementation of a gear treadmill. The ascended armor is designed to provide a rarity gap, rather than a statistical gap. Because of this, it will provide the agony protection to go along with the fractals dungeon, but no additional statistic benefit over current exotic gear”

That is all it would take to calm this storm. That they will not say this indicates to me that the design has indeed shifted.

I don’t agree with you here.
Ascended gear is not only a rarity gap, because only Ascended gear can take Infusions in.
Also, this tier is absolutely not needed stat wise: if Exotics are enough and good for balance in PvP, there is no reason whatsoever, apart from a whim, to add more stats to PvE.
None of this also adresses the simple fact that if you’re adding vertical progression – even on few slots at a time – but at the same time admit you’re planning to expand this further, it is a gear treadmill that was not supposed to be in this game to begin with.

Also, none of this will offer any satisfaction for players who already invested in Exotics (time, effort, gold, gems…).

Sorry for a bit erratic post but I’m getting really fed up with this.

PeerlessArch.6547:

Did they not also say that Legendary Gear will always be the highest statted equipment in the game and that in the future, all legendary gear, including the weapons now that are still the same stats as exotics will get a boost as the final stats available on any given equipment?

If that is the case, i would imagine that maybe they will upscale all current exotic gear to match the stats of ascended gear once it is implemented.

They are up-scaling Legendary to match Ascended, but leaving Exotic as it is.

AcidicVision.5498:

Neither of us can be proven right or wrong for what…at least another 3-6 months right? So then why not just give the new stuff a try and see if you have fun with it until then?

“To wait and see” is usually a great course of action, but please don’t forget the “tiny little” detail:
-for many players, this is a totally game-changing and deal-breaking development that comes all of a sudden, and in just 2 days, the update goes live.

If we want to voice our dissapointment, the time is now, not in 3 months.
I’ve said it so many times in this thread to so many people: during the whole development period and marketing pre-release campaign it was always, always claimed that there will be no vertical progression and that Exotics are the top stat-wise. Many people based their purchases and their latest goals on that premise.
This is not a small thing for a lot of people.
If you’re one that likes it or it does’t bother you, great. Good luck, you still have a game you feel you can enjoy. Many of us don’t feel like that anymore.

Thorquist.8126:

Healix.5819:

This isn’t GW1 where the level cap will be the same forever.

And why do you think so? I actually hope, there won’t be any changes in level cap.

ANet actually claimed during the development of GW2 that while yes they will rise the cap from initial 20, it will stay capped on the same principle as in GW1.

However, given that no vertical progression was part of that principle as well, I have my doubts if that is still true.

Edit: removed mis-quoted post.

Instead of assuming why peopel are unhappy about the new system, how about you actually read what they have to say?

Some people are unhappy because they bought GW2 (mainly) because it promised to get rid of vertical progression, a system they dislike for various reasons They feel victims of false advertising.

Some peopel think that vertical progression will remove the possibility of leaving the game for a longer period of time and coming back stiff on the same plateau of power as other players, something GW1 offered and what was really amazing.

Some people are unhappy because tehy’ve put what they believe to be considerate effort on their part to acquire Exotic: effort they would not go for (to that extent) if they knew there was another tier coming (my girlfriend got her Exotics and then used Fine Transmutation Stones, which she paid for with real money, on each and single one of them to make them look like she wanted – she would not have done it if she knew that’s not the last tier).

Some people see that it Ascended is unbalanced for sPvP, it also means it’s unbalanced for other types of PvP, so WvWvW.

Some people foresee the “LF1M full Ascended min t6 Infusion” in a game that prizes itself on removing the “LF1M Healer only”.
(only Ascended gear can be Infused so if you plan on doing content that requires protection from Agony, you need it)

Some people think all the above.
And there are probably other reasons as well. Make an efford and you will find them, along with some good arguments.

FrizzFreston.5290:

Urxx.6840:

They trashed the holy trinity so you could any dungeon without having the classic “LF tank” or “LF priest”.

Wait, now we have “LF full ascended player”. That’s much better.

I have yet to see LF full exotic player. So that argument doesn’t hold that much ground.
Though I guess you will see LF ascended player for deeper levels of the same dungeon.

It does hold ground because only Ascended armor can be Infused and thus offer any protection from Agony.

BadHealer.3608:

Loosifah.4739:

I personally welcome the new content. Especially since they’ve defined that the gear progression WILL end as Rare -> Exotic -> Ascended -> Legendary.

I did pick out your statement, but it had been posted by others.

Why do you think that Legendary is the best? Since it can’t be infused, you can’t run all the dungeons with it. Ascendend will be stronger (if you run the dungeons) and easier to optain. But you could use it, if you need it for a special build.

If you are doing WvWvW you may use Legendaries, but Dungeons will be always Ascendes only or the people will laugh at you.

Legendary will be upgraded to Ascended status.

But Loosifah is still wrong, again, in his post.
Ascended == Legendary
There is no progression between them because the stats stay the same.
Just more bling some people don’t care for at all.

jakep.9572:

Azjenco.9425:

143 pages…

All I can say is, people have been clamoring for meaningful end level progression since release. And now here it is. If you dislike it, then be careful what you wish for, I guess…

Let’s get something straight:

People who came here from GW1, the fans of ArenaNet who have been excited about the game for the last 5 years, have not been asking for stat progression. We have understood that the philosophy of Guild Wars is to have an easily obtainable stat ceiling where players are equally geared and then the effort becomes about being a better or more strategic player.

There may have been many people asking for stat progression or better items, but they are not the groupies. They are not the fanboys. They are the people who are now pandas off in a different world

Yes people were complaining about lack of things to do after they hit 80.
But i can assure you not all of them meant stat progression.

Have you seen all the numerous “I hate Orr!” threads?
If you’re not an alter and not a PvPer and you happen to dislike Orr (look into those threads for reason), there is indeed precious for you to do.
But it doesn’t necessarly mean every one wanted stat progression!

This update, and the future updates, were supposed to fix it by adding more diverse content. Not stat upgrades!

Yes, there was a “time” gap between obtaining Exotics and Legendaries.
Yes, some people felt that the game only offered long-term goals after lvl 80 and obtaining gear. But why do you assume every one of them meant stat progression here, too?

Sit down and look at the amount and types of goals GW2 offered right now:
-pvp goals
-exploration goals
-money sink goals

Most goals were money sinks, so if you wanted a long-term goal (Legendary), there was almost no short- or medium- term goal that could go in synergy with it, because the money you would spend on shorter term goals could go onto the long term.
That was a problem. Stat progression is nowhere here.

New content would fix lack of places to go for lvl 80 non-alters.
More diverse goals (Polumock? Bar brawl or other mini-games?) could help with the synergy with long-term goal.
Adjusting precursors would make the gap smaller for a lot of people.

To sum it up, the introduction of vertical progression was totally uncalled for!

Masaki.2153:

“Will there be another new tier after Ascended”

They broke a promise to not do this in the first place……and only 3 months into the game.

I’m going to say yes

The Future of Items Progression: This is just the beginning. In November, we’re only adding the first level of Infusions and Ascended Rings and Back slots, so that leaves us a lot of room to build upon these levels of Item progression in future content.
I am reading that as “yes, there will be more tiers with time”.
That’s also how I read Studio Director’s post.
In either case, it’s not a “definite no”, which shatters my hoper really.

Nyspar.6103:

I’m one of those people who welcomes to ascended gear. The reason is simple, it gives me a new goal to work toward.

I’ve reached the end’est (yes I made up a word) game you can possible be at.
-I’ve done sPvP to rank 28
-I’ve got 2 lvl 80 Characters
-I’ve got the commander tag
-I’ve got full exotics for both my characters
-I’ve got a legendary weapon

For me the only things to do now are: sPvP or WvW.

This ascended gear patch will give me a reason to do more PVE and also gives me a new goal to work towards

Yes. For a week. Then you’ll be as bored as you are already.
Adding new content and new goals on the horizontal plateau was always meant to be how GW2 will expand.

Without reading too much into this topic:
Almost exact same thing was tried in LotRO and it didn’t work out.
The arbitrary gating almost killed the raiding alliance group I was in: before it, we would balance raids / groups with alts depending on what was the most needed, but with Radiance, only well-equipped mains would qualify.

Mechanics like this completly kills alting.
It’s not about “who would I like to take into this part of content” anymore, it’s about “which character has the highest Infusion”.

It seems grindy, it failed in LotRO, it failed in WoW…
I dislike it highly. It’s not as deal-breaking as Ascended gear is for me because it’s easier to back out from and seems to have less impact on general population right now anyway, but i am against it personally.

MrDmajor.7084:

“Our intentions are not to create a gear treadmill… what we are proposing is a gear treadmill but calling it something else because gear treadmill is a bad word. NO we will not promise to never do it again, but we’ll try not to do it every 3 months. Maybe 4-6? See you at the gem shop folks!” -ANet

This is exactly how I read it, too.

Also, “not full equipment at once, so it’s less obvious for you”.
So depressing.

kistell.5684:

KingClash.3186:

Woah.. This is the biggest crybaby thread for this game to date.
No one cares whatsoever if you leave the game so stop being attention w****s
Just be happy that something new is being introduced, that or just walk away; dont come to the forums and toss a mega hissy fit.
#Getoverit

Not very bright are you, Anet are using a business model build on micro transactions,
Losing players due to upsetting them is not good for business, look at other failed MMO`s due to upsetting their user base.

Exactly.
Remember that it’s not the most hardcore of players that spend the most on Gems – they buy them for the hoardes of in-game gold they accumulate.
The whole system was designed with casual players as Gem suppliers in mind: they are to buy them to “save time”.

Who is, in general, the most annoyed with gear treadmills (not always, for example I consider my gf a hardcore player: while she disagrees, she hates gear treadmill anyway)?
Who is the most hit by a new tier of gear and so soon, after they worked so hard for their Exotic sets?

But somehow Arena Net still decided to chase and try to please crowd which burns trhough content with inhuman speed to cry for more, and which by general does not spend much real money on Gems because they can afford to buy all they need via in-game money. What will new tier change? They will have their Ascended gear in a week or two and they will cry for more, a fools game that can’t be win that way.

This decision is – for me – bad for Guild Wars 2 business model, for the community, and it gives ANet a bad PR for breaking design principles they promised to hold.

Baron Von Graymouse.7801:

Its funny that most people people where complaining and upset that Legendary weapons had the same stats that the exotics have and that the Legendary weapons are only a cosmetic change. Well, Anet listened and now they are finally making Legendary weapons the way they should have been in the first place. Legendary weapons are suppose to be the most powerful items in the game. Not some re-skinned exotic weapons. I applaud Anet for this! With the introduction to Ascended items it puts the Exotics lower on the totem pole where they belong. Underneath Ascended/Legendary items. All these guys that are saying they are going to stop playing will still be playing the game it may not be this month or the next but I bet my bottom gold piece if you track those that said they are going to be quitting they will still be around. So, stop your belly aching and enjoy the new content.

You know what is funny?
Legendaries will have exactly the same stats as Ascended items.
So they will not be “the most powerful items in game”.

Legendaries were never meant by Devs to be the most powerful weapons in game, but the most notirious, hard to get and sought for in terms of prestige. But not stats. And that won’t change.

People like you bought a game because it wa “hot” without researching what the principles of it are, discovered they are not like “the only right principles of Wow” and managed to shatter the best design part of GW2 and make it just like all the other games on the market.
But guess what, in 2 weeks you’ll have your Ascended and exactly as little to do as you have now. And Legendaries will still have the same stats as other, also regular, type of gear (yeah, Ascended will be the new Exotic, nothing more). You gained absolutely nothing.

Urxx.6840:

Shilian.5873:

Guys you forgot something essential:

The gap between exo/ascen is MINIMAL, so not a MUST for WvW or anything, just for the new dungeon, and guess what? you will get the gear while progressing trough it.

Too much fap guys, no reason to go mad.

This is a common misconception. The STAT gap is minimal. The exotic item’s impossibility to have infusions and counter agony is huge. The new dungeon is the only place where agony is incflicted FOR NOW, but things will change.

They haven’t developed a whole new system to use it only in the fractals. We’ll see agony in many upcoming patches.

I disagree, 8% is substantial increase in my eyes.
But I do agree that lack of Infusion slot on Exotic – or any other type of gear for that matter – makes the gap between Ascended and Exotic even higher, especially with time as more gear, more tiers and – probably – more Agony will be added.

Loomii.6014:

Can people just stop complaining? Anet are busting their kitten giving us this great content and all you people do is moan, if you don’t like it play something else

Have you seen pleople complaining about the new content and the update in general? No.
Everyone was excited about the new stuff added to game.

The new content is not the problem, there was not a single post on this forum that I’ve seen saying “no new content, we want the game scope to stay as it is!”.
No, people are complaining about a mechanic that to them, ruing the game.
A mechanic that was not meant to be in GW2 ever, which was stated by the Devs multiple times during the development period and marketing campaign not to have place in GW2. A lack of which made many buy the game actually.

Eadgyt.5987:

If I bought a vacuum-cleaner I’d be kinda angry if the shop suddenly exchanged it for a broom… or started fiddling with the wiring for that matter.

Sure, a product can be subject to change.. But as consumers we certainly can voice our opinions as well! Don’t go number 1 on us and then call it rain.. That will only lead to unsatisfied and smelly customers!

http://www.arena.net/blog/guild-wars-2-design-manifesto

Exactly.
I payed for “d”, but withing 3 months it was switched to “b”. “b” that was never to find it’s way into this game, everyone who read anything about GW1 knew that.

MrLee.6892:

Conner.4702:

FACT: It’s a gear treadmill as it requires new gear with new upgrades
FACT: They stated they will add new infusions, which will require a new grind
FACT: Gear treadmill = Gear treadmill. Doesn’t matter if it is vertical or horizontal.
FACT: They said they would not put in a gear treadmill
FACT: They stated they wanted everyone to be able to do all content, which is impossible when you add gated content

FACT: If you don’t like it you can go play Guild Wars 1

How about..
FACT: If you don’t like games without vertical gear progression, you shouldn’t have bought game clearly advertised as not having one and yourself go play something else?
You’d have much more to choose from anyway, since every MMO out there has it.

Instead, everyone who dislikes gear treadmill now ends up in a game with one anyway.

Arnath.2319:

I hate gear treadmills, i hate gear progression, i dont care about numbers and stats on my gear.

This is a once off thing, the people crying in this thread are less than 5% of the Guild Wars 2 community.

Please learn to read: it is clearly stated in the blog post that it is NOT a one-time thing.

The Future of Items Progression: This is just the beginning. In November, we’re only adding the first level of Infusions and Ascended Rings and Back slots, so that leaves us a lot of room to build upon these levels of Item progression in future content.

Cloud.7613:

Enjoy the monthly subscription, enjoy buying the expansion cost and enjoy the same thing people are complaining about right now, gear, progression. I’m confused why people would complain about one thing and go to the game that is renowned for it. :-/

There is an old truth that is yet to be proven wrong: “you pay for what you get”.
I don’t mind paying monthly fee and buying expansions (btw, you’re assuming GW2 will not have paid-for expansions, I’m pretty sure they already said they will, November is just a small content update) for things that I enjoy. I also like the idea of in-game support that can fix broken instances without the need to do them again because of a game bug, or account restoration, or even reimbursement in case of loss caused by a game bug, none of GW2 has.

Monthly fees is not the reason I am not playing WoW however, gear treadmill is the main reason I am not.

stof.9341:

Arnath.2319:

If you want to wear your tin foil hat and make up conspiracy theroys and spend your time hating a company that has produced the best MMO in gaming history with the most amount of content delivered then any other game then go for it. But your behaviour is unhealthy and not welcome in this community.

It’s not conspiracy theories. It’s a matter of trust. I bought that karma exotic armor set because I trusted ArenaNet when they said it was the best quality ever. I bought a second set of exotic jewelry because I trusted ArenaNet when they said it was the best quality ever.

Now, they broke that trust which hurts which is why people are angry. And when they add later “but trust us, it’s the last time we add a new gear tier!”, it doesn’t work, the trust isn’t there anymore.

Read more closely, they’re not even saying “that’s the last time we’re adding a new tier”. They actualyl say, in both blog post and new announcement, they “will build upon these levels of Item progression in future content”, just “not every 3 months”.
Every 6, 7, 12 months is as bad for me and makes no change to the underlying principle: they added gear treadmill to a game i bought because it has a “no gear treadmill” on the label.

Then the problem was not Exotic items or gear tiers, but that players felt Legendary items were too hard to get and it took too long after getting Exotic set to ge ta Legendary?
And they’re fixing the problem of Legendaries being – according to some players – too laborous and hard to get – by adding a tier of items harder to get than Exotics?
I fail to compute this reasoning.

Also, Exotics are apparently fine for PvP balance, which by design of this game makes them fine for PvE as well. So Ascended items do not need the stat increase.
So in the end, we’re back to the starting point: this implementation is pointless and baseless from the game’s design point of view and is a 180 turn away from the principles this game was supposed to be build upon and sold upon – Ascended items might as well have been just another skin.

Arnath.2319:

Denying it is a gear treadmill is just plain moronic. Anet is going to have people chasing new gear every few months if they implement more infusion types. That is the definition of gear treadmill.

No, what is really moronic is the stupidity of all you fearmongering fools overreacting to something so insignificant.

*bold*This is not a gear treadmill!!bold

By definition and common sense and everything that is sain in this world this is NOT a gear treadmill!! To call it a gear treadmill is borderline insane, as it dose not even come close to resembling a gear treadmill!

This is a once off, if they had added a new tier between blue and green items no one would care, that is exactly what they have done here, add a new tier between Exotic and Legendary, something that will very important to do as this game is dying fast and loosing many players to boredom at level 80.

The disgusting overreaction from the hipster elitists of this game is deeply disturbing.

Keep up the good work Arenanet and dont let the bullys get you down!

First of all, don’t you think it’s a bit ironic to say “Don’t let the bullies get you down!” if, according to ANets own words, that’s exactly the reason they are introducing the change in gear tiers?

Also, you give no arguments to support your claim that this is not a “gear treadmill” apart from calling it insane. no argument = claim is void. Expecially, since it fits gear treadmill to a tee: new gier tier, with better stats, is announced as well as plans to introduce higher tiers in the future (yes, it’s not “once off”, read the blog post: This is just the beginning. In November, we’re only adding the first level of Infusions and Ascended Rings and Back slots, so that leaves us a lot of room to build upon these levels of Item progression in future content.).

Jarv.1972:

I can understand why some will be annoyed by the new armour but my view is I don’t really care that much about gear, It’s nice to have and something to work towards but for me it’s not the be all and end all. I can see some people not being happy because for them having the best gear is the thing for them, for me its playing the game. To be fair though this was always going to happen eventually, We should all be thankful this has been added free rather than paying £30 for an expansion.

Don’t worry be happy and kill stuff, It’s all good

It never happened in GW1 and it was a successful game, why do you say it would happen eventually?

I for one am not thankful nor happy for a content that changes the game precisely into something I did not want to play just 3 months after release and I would rather not pay 75EUR for something I dislike but pay 30EUR more for something I do.

Despite the length of the thread, I’ll drop my 2 cents as well.

I’ve decided never to pick up MMOs again because of the gear treadmill each and single one offered and the lack of it was exactly the reason why my girlfriend managed to convince me to even pick up Guild Wars 2.

In my eyes, there areas where GW2 is superior over other games are not really numerous. Quite frankly, they are quite few.
Main storyline is inferior to, for example, LotRO storyline, written by some of the best and most creative writers I’ve ever seen in game industry, and the fact that everything in this game stays true to Tolkien lore is another bonus for LotR fans, to name one.

Almost every aspect of your game I find either on par, or inferior to other games: that of course is a matter of taste, but it boils down to a single fact: the main strength of your game and the main selling point was lack of vertical progression. You decided to throw that principle you advertised as core to your game for years of development because a few players did not read what they were buying. It is very disappointing.

And because the lack of gear treadmill was the main reason I began to play that game, I will probably stop playing if it’s in.