Guild Wars 2

marksman,skirmishing,beastmastery/nature magic.
Remorelsess + fury sources = 100% crit chance from opening strikes which means you only need 15-20% crit hits to maintain a good amount of damage between fury application.

Bleeds on skirmishing + PFC gear = more extra damage for ranger because he is now able to take condi stats without sacrificing.
pets will sustain those bleed stacks untill the Ranger tops it up increasing the stack size.

rangers are not like other classes they can making the impossible possible through theory crafting and desgining builds effectively and also what my comment was " against the idea and only proposed a Counter Balance" and once again people are only focusing on the Damage protion of the game..ps the Exploit? i didn’t even mention a exploit.. its not a Exploit , grab your ranger and try again.
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I’ve looked at your suggestion today (because ranger pvp winner daily), two-handed training has a cooldown of 10s….(not sure if this was only added today) So yeah, you get 100% crit chance, once every 10 seconds. If you take wilderness survival though, you can get fury everytime you use a survival skill, as well as survival skills then remove condi’s and have a reduced recharge, which is nice, but their cooldowns are a bit long to use as persistent damage supplement. The highest damage output I can get (with my limited knowledge or ranger) is to use hit bash (to get attack of opportunity [+50% damage on your next attack], this 50% damage doesn’t seem to crit) and then to use a survival skill (to regain opening strike), and then use maul, which results in about 5000 damage for cavalier amulet [900 power, 1200 toughness, 900 ferocity] , and 6500 damage with Valkyrie amulet [1200 power, 900 vitality, 900 ferocity]. This damage is pretty okay, and if you always use your opening strike combo with maul, then you can do a 3800 – 4500 nuke very 4.5 seconds, while adding vulnerability, which is pretty okay as well.

As far as condition damage output goes, the bleeds and things that your pet applies scale of your pets condition damage…and every pet has zero condition damage by default, and with how condition damage now works, this does very little damage. Now also take into account that the traits that apply bleeding for your pet, only apply bleeding on crit. Using the lynx (that has a skill that applies bleeding, and high precision), your pet can apply about 9 stacks of bleeding, (again using wilderness survival, to give your pet 300 condition damage) that does about 900 damage per second. Regarding the rangers condition damage, using 1200 condition damage, with axe and torch (which seem to apply the most condition damage for a ranger), as well as survival skills, you can stack some pretty intense damage.

Using both my and my pet and myself with a carrion amulet (power, vitality, condition damage) with axe and torch, I can kill the heavy golum in about 6-7 seconds, if I blow my whole kit (using split blade, throw torch, bonfire, bleeding stones, and entagle and persistent auto attacks), which is actually pretty good I think, but it’s on a target that doesn’t evade, nor removes conditions. Note, I did not even bother to time how long it takes to kill that golum with power and ferocity alone, because it’s just too dam long, if you used power, ferocity, condition damage gear you would only use the power and ferocity combo for a few nukes with the greatsword, before switching to axe torch for some persistant condition damge.

Now here’s why this isn’t not be op, with a zerker thief, I can burst that golum in about 2 seconds flat, using only one utility skill. A power, ferocity, condition damage ranger could potentially do the same, but it wont be op, it’ll just be as strong as zerker has been for the last 3 years…. To tell the truth I really like this condition damage thing on ranger…. now I really want power, ferocity, condition damage stats in the game, because I want to play my ranger like this too! So I must thank you for forcing me to go take a good hard look at the rangers skills.

P.s. the first definition of the word “exploit” when you google it is “make full use of and derive benefit from (a resource)”, I wasn’t implying that it was some bug that can be misused, it’s a resource put in the game that is meant to be used.

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

Ryu.8673:

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

too true but back to my comment,i explained why it most likely going to be “op” with the way rangers can trait now we can easly go with 0% crit hits and end up with 50% upkeep of opening strikes which will 100% crit always.

and that plus power, ferocity , condi damage just gives ranger even more power Higher than the current Zerker , because they will gain a lot of condi damage for free.

now add in the factor of the pet which can be traited to do Longer bleeds+pets attacks cause bleeding also while your crits gain the pet might , by using Wilderness , Marksman and beastmastery.

its not just one set of traits adding this to the game will give any class the Benifit of extra condi damage without giving up somthing else because precision can be replaced through traits though the choice of weapons would be limited.

but down to its core is , its a power creep with the current traits.

now imagine Burning Guardain with P,F,C stats and trinkets of P,P,C(rampager)

unless you propose a counter Stat set to P,F,C.
for example

V,H,C extra hp , higher healing power to counter a good portion of DoT’s and Condi stat as those work strongly vs glass builds due to most having low Hp it DoT’s on the V,h,c set are effective while using CC’s.

Okay, so let me just understand you correctly, you want to use a greatsword to grant you a chance on fury, that will give you a garanteed crit on you’re next attack? And you want to do it while building full glass? If you got the skill to stay alive when running that then go for it! XD ‘m really not interested in an argument in theory crafting, but I will say this, this exploit that you are talking about, it’s in the game right now, a ranger can right now go power toughness ferocity, or power vitality ferocity effectively having zerker damage while being tanky at the same time. Also I assume that you’ll need some other condition applying utility skills, since relying only on your pet to apply condtions would be pretty ineffective, and the greatsword doesn’t have any conditions on it. So basically, you’ll be forced to stay melee, or else you’ll loose all the benefits you get from ferocity, and you’ll need to take at least one or two condition applying utility skills, or else you’re condition damage output will be pretty weak, which will leave you with only one or two defensive utilities. All in all you’ll be SUPER squishy, but yes your damage will be “OP”. But here’s the thing, you’ll need a MASSIVE amount of skill to be able to stay alive long enough to use this build effectively, and if you have the skill to that….well, that’s exactly what it I was getting at before, 90% of this game is skill XD.

marksman,skirmishing,beastmastery/nature magic.
Remorelsess + fury sources = 100% crit chance from opening strikes which means you only need 15-20% crit hits to maintain a good amount of damage between fury application.

Bleeds on skirmishing + PFC gear = more extra damage for ranger because he is now able to take condi stats without sacrificing.
pets will sustain those bleed stacks untill the Ranger tops it up increasing the stack size.

rangers are not like other classes they can making the impossible possible through theory crafting and desgining builds effectively and also what my comment was " against the idea and only proposed a Counter Balance" and once again people are only focusing on the Damage protion of the game..ps the Exploit? i didn’t even mention a exploit.. its not a Exploit , grab your ranger and try again.

I’m not going to argue with you, you think it’ll be op, I think it’ll be just like any other build. Thank you, have a nice day

rapthorne.7345:

if you’re going to try and rely on Death Perception for crits then there’s no point going condi necro as Dhuumfire is a terrible trait right now, shroud has terrible condi application, and I strongly suspect reaper shroud condi will also be crap.

Hybrid builds might seem like a good idea in theory but they really, really aren’t except in one or two very niche cases

The necro thing is what I would to do in PVE, not so much PVP, you can stack some serious condi’s on a target, getting the bonus 50% crit from 25 stacks of vulnerability from the upcoming the reaper trait (If it makes it into the final build) for some extra damage while you’re out of death shroud. Then while you’re skills are on cooldown, pop shroud with death perception for a 100% crit chance while in shroud and just auto for a while and let you’re 1 minute bleed an various other conditions do damage until your normal skills are off cooldown.

This should work very nicely for bosses, not so much on mobs, and it probably wouldn’t work very well in pvp either. We know the reaper will be slow, and if you use a build like this that takes a bit of time to get damage out, while being immobile and squishy, while relying on shroud for you’re offence and defense, well I would probably die before getting all om my skills of cooldown. So if we see this stat combo in game, I probably wouldn’t use it on a reaper in pvp, but I would LOVE to have it pve.

A thief could also have a nice hybrid build using these stats. If you go into deadly strikes, and take the grandmaster trait that gives you 100% chance to critical strike from stealth, basically if you use caltrops, and a d/d setup, you can be a pretty good team fighter, or point defender. Throwing your caltrops on the point, and spamming death blossom and stacking bleed. But a thief almost only has bleeds, what if the person im fighting has a lot of condtion removal? Well then you might not want to try and 1v1 him XD. A nice advantage that something like this has is that hits multiple targets, while death blossom gives you a brief evade for just a bit more survivability, and the reason for the ferocity is when you see a low heath person, pop some stealth, and use backstab to down him, before entering the fray again. I would not recommend trying to execute a stop after that, since you’ll be revealed and trying to execute a stomp as a full glass thief, in a teamfight, while being revealed, well that’s just asking for trouble.

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

too true but back to my comment,i explained why it most likely going to be “op” with the way rangers can trait now we can easly go with 0% crit hits and end up with 50% upkeep of opening strikes which will 100% crit always.

and that plus power, ferocity , condi damage just gives ranger even more power Higher than the current Zerker , because they will gain a lot of condi damage for free.

now add in the factor of the pet which can be traited to do Longer bleeds+pets attacks cause bleeding also while your crits gain the pet might , by using Wilderness , Marksman and beastmastery.

its not just one set of traits adding this to the game will give any class the Benifit of extra condi damage without giving up somthing else because precision can be replaced through traits though the choice of weapons would be limited.

but down to its core is , its a power creep with the current traits.

now imagine Burning Guardain with P,F,C stats and trinkets of P,P,C(rampager)

unless you propose a counter Stat set to P,F,C.
for example

V,H,C extra hp , higher healing power to counter a good portion of DoT’s and Condi stat as those work strongly vs glass builds due to most having low Hp it DoT’s on the V,h,c set are effective while using CC’s.

Okay, so let me just understand you correctly, you want to use a greatsword to grant you a chance on fury, that will give you a garanteed crit on you’re next attack? And you want to do it while building full glass? If you got the skill to stay alive when running that then go for it! XD ‘m really not interested in an argument in theory crafting, but I will say this, this exploit that you are talking about, it’s in the game right now, a ranger can right now go power toughness ferocity, or power vitality ferocity effectively having zerker damage while being tanky at the same time. Also I assume that you’ll need some other condition applying utility skills, since relying only on your pet to apply condtions would be pretty ineffective, and the greatsword doesn’t have any conditions on it. So basically, you’ll be forced to stay melee, or else you’ll loose all the benefits you get from ferocity, and you’ll need to take at least one or two condition applying utility skills, or else you’re condition damage output will be pretty weak, which will leave you with only one or two defensive utilities. All in all you’ll be SUPER squishy, but yes your damage will be “OP”. But here’s the thing, you’ll need a MASSIVE amount of skill to be able to stay alive long enough to use this build effectively, and if you have the skill to that….well, that’s exactly what it I was getting at before, 90% of this game is skill XD.

I’ll never understand why people always complain about things being “OP” (especially when you’re just theory crafting). In pvp I play mostly a zerker thief, and I have destroyed condi thiefs, and have been destroyed by them as well, the same with zerker thiefs. At least 90% of your performance in game is about how well you play with your setup, not what you’re setup is. That being said, are some builds better than others? Yeah. Are condi’s good now? Hell yeah. Should you be scared of a power, ferocity, condi ranger? Also yes, but he’ll have to be scared of you as well because he’ll be glass, the same with a zerker ranger. The only difference that I can see with another stat combo, is requiring another playstyle, as well as another counter-playstyle.

Is there anyone else that would like to see this stat combo? I want a full damage necro, but precision doesn’t seem like a good stat on it, the necro has tons of condi’s and if those reaper traits that were shown make it into the game then then necro can get 100% crit chance while in shroud, without any precision, making any precision armour ineffective, and precision is in all of the full damage stat combo’s

I’m really liking the pirate theme, instead of the fencer theme, it’s just a small name change, but opens up a much more diverse fighting style, and the physical utility skills would fit much better with an ‘in your face’ slippery pirate.

Diovid.9506:

Sword / Dagger is way more fencer-y than Sword / Sword, off-hand sword is very unwieldy. It’s the reason why a main-gauche existed and why the daisho combat style usually used a wakizashi quite a bit smaller than the katana.

I was going to say that I couldn’t imagine the thief’s F1 changing that much because all existing traits have to work with it, no matter what specialization a thief uses. However, looking at the traits the thief will have after the specialization update, I don’t see that big of a problem.

As far as the real world goes, yes you are absolutely right, before Infenso mentioned Cervantes the look of a main-hand dagger off-hand sword really bothered me, only in terms of styling alone, let alone the possible combat moves. But as far as video game logic goes, were getting a guy that can hit someone with a hammer from over quite a range, without even throwing it, and we have a class that can shoot beams out of greatswords, so I won’t let that bother me too much ^^. And also the current thief s/d is REALLY not fencer-y :P

Infenso.6329:

Ryu.8673:

Infenso.6329:

Pirate spec confirmed?

Yarrrr! Rune of the pirate required matey!

Elite: Drunken rage xD

Gains half a second of evade every second, and uses any weapon currently equipped as a melee weapon (including shotbows XD) with a new set of druken weapon abilities and utilities. Or maybe if it grants some protection and stability for a while, I would like that, the thief has so few stability skills (and yes, I realize that people are less stable when drunk….but if you’re so unstable that you can dodge a few cc attacks, then that works too :P)

Infenso.6329:

Pirate spec confirmed?

Yarrrr! Rune of the pirate required matey!

ronpierce.2760:

Sagat.3285:

MH dagger OH sword thief not confirmed!!!

Why you no like Cervantes????

http://soulcalibur.wikia.com/wiki/Cervantes

:O that would be so sick. Imagine taking that pose of his when you stand still (or a slightly more relaxed version)

Rich Fuel.7253:

you guyz are getting a Rifle, deal with it

Possibly, but these specialization will not be the only ones, there will be more coming in the future.

Infenso.6329:

While I kind of have a feeling this is unlikely for the first elite, I find this pretty neat. As a side note It would be kind of awesome if the Elite or something got turned into a form of quickness that makes you auto attack with both weapons or something, I dunno just throwing out ideas =o

Yeah man, that would be quite epic

I would LOVE to have an off hand sword for the thief specialization, it’s something I wanted to have since launch. The main idea is a class that is somewhat related to warrior playstyle, by fighting on the front lines. Only instead of just facerolling your keyboard as a tanky warrior, each of your skills would have a specific situational use that you need to use to use to protect yourself as squishy thief, such as block, evade, slow, weakness and even quickness. The possibilities are so numerous, and so fun to think of.

The name could be a fencer, or a duelist; although the name duelist is used in other parts of the game and is probably not up for use, but I think it’s fitting to describe the play style.

The off-hand sword skills should definitely have at least a block, with a quick counterattack and a slightly high initiative cost, to avoid permanently spaming it. The other off-hand skill or duel wield skill could give you quickness that only lasts for your next skill (effectively reducing the cast time), or be some flurry of sword attacks, or a simple swipe with some conditions or condition removal.

The F1 skill could stay a gap closer, but perhaps a lunge instead of a shadow step, and damage instead of the steal. Or a little more complicated lunge, that works with a charge system. Or an even more complicate F1 skill, could use quickly use the thief’s other off-hand weapon; so if the thief’s other off-hand weapon is a dagger, the F1 skill could be a backstab, or if it is a shotbow the skill could shoot a clusterbomb, or if it is a pistol it could be the dazing shot, or blinding powder, or the whatever, it could be any of the current skills or all new skills.

For the utility skills I think that physical skills would be the most fitting (like the ones that warrior has).

The traits could do interesting things, like the first mandatory trait changing the ‘2’ skill to remove the cast time, but changing it to lunges instead of a shadow steps. Or the autoattack skills can change on a successful block, instead of when you are invisible. For the traits that you select, a grandmaster trait that doubles the extra damage that you do to vulnerable targets, adding vulnerability to sword autoattack, or on a successful block (I really want to emphasize using vulnerability with a class like this, using it should be a crucial part of your damage output). Another big trait can let you cast utility skills that while they are still on cooldown, but then require initiative depending on how long the cooldown still is. There can be increased dash ranges, odd might stacking mechanics, situational dazes, brief evades, immobilizes, and definitely some situational damage buffs.

As far as the elite skills go, I barely want to think about it, or else I’ll be here all day, but something that I personally would like to see is a signet, since the current elite skills for the thief, are not all that great in pve (I assume that this is because a very strong elite skill would make the thief too strong in pvp), a sigil could give you a nice buff, but not cause too much problems in pvp. An example could be adding one vulnerability stack each time you hit an opponent (yeah vulnerability again, but I don’t expect a class to instantly give a person 25 stacks of vulnerability and keep it on them persistently, nor do I want it, so of course the values would have to be tuned to be balanced, probably not all the vulnerability skills I mentioned would be able to be used together), and the active could be defensive, giving you evade for second or two, and perhaps breaking stuns.

I really enjoy thinking of things like this, and could spend days on end on it. But I would like to hear what other players think about a class like this, not too much about my specific skills, but more about the overall idea, and also what you would like to see. If a dev happens across this, I would very much love to hear what they think in general (good or bad/viable or not/creative or boring/etc.). Btw, this is my second post ever, so sorry if it’s a little long winded.

Edit: I’m sure that the devs are hard at work with whatever specialization that they have planned for the professions, but each profession will get more specializations as time goes on, so for the time being forget about the stupid rifles please XD

I was very pleasantly surprised when I saw the update about about conditions; however, I would like to suggest something different regarding fire an poison, which is to leave the “per player” interaction just as is. What I mean by this is that if player one uses a two second burn and then a one second burn, let them stack duration, but if player two then uses his two second burn, then player two’s burn would only last 2 seconds from the start of his skill, but stack in intensity with player one’s burn.

I’m sure that incoming system has been thought out well enough, but I have always been a fan of how the different conditions stacked, and I would be sad to see that creative idea go.

Regarding the interface, if you aren’t burning your target, but another player is, then perhaps a grayed out icon can be displayed instead of the normal one. This would allow you to know weather you are currently doing damage with burning, and also let you know if the target is being affected by burn, this would come in handy for something like a guardian that does more damage against burning foes (and similarly let you know whether a target is getting reduced healing effects from poison).

(This is my first forum post EVER, so I hope I put in the right place as I am completely unfamiliar with the environment)