Guild Wars 2

Damage seems out of whack to me honestly. I did some tests on my ranger, one setup had around 2100 armor and the other around 2900 or so. I had been feeling for a long time now that damage trumps mitigation and must out scale armor by a large margin.

Well what I found was that having 800ish more armor really did a lot of nothing against these heavy burst builds. The damage reduction from having so much armor was very slight and honestly not worth it at all since I had to sacrifice a lot of damage to achieve this.

I also wonder if there is more going on then raw stats. On my guardian I can roll glass cannon and have less armor and health then my ranger and still take a massive load of damage and keep going. Sure a part of this is due to built in defenses and heals….but again things seem very off to me. Even factoring those conditions into it….having 1k more armor and 3k more health on the ranger should count for something but I have found it does not.

Fact is you can go glass cannon or tanky on many professions and it means very little when a Thief is running a heavy burst build, you will still be bursted down very very hard. Tougness / Armor / Mitigation needs to scale better against massive burst damage if burst is going to be allowed in the game. To counter huge defenses you run conditions.

Hotjoin PvP:

1) Thieves
2) Mesmer
3) Warrior
4) Guardian
5) Engi
6) Ranger
7) Ele
8) Necro

Tourney PvP:

1) Guardians
2) Mesmer
3) Engi
4) Thief
5) Ele
6) Ranger
7) Necro
8) Warrior

IMO….Rank 20, mostly play Ranger and Guardian, mix of hotjoin and Tourney play.

Well I can’t say I follow you line of thinking when it comes to conditions….yes there may be some flexibility and yes some of the options to improve condition damage has defensive stats tied into it but it also takes longer to kill someone via conditions then huge burst….so again do not follow you. Secondly there are hard counters to conditions, burst damage counter is defense but burst damage out scales defense which is why a thief can still easily drop even durable built characters in seconds.

For conditions you have removals of all kinds and of course high HP is a strong counter to them.

As for the ranger, Im rank 20 and my most played is the Ranger. If you removed quickness the ranger would take a massive hit and be stuck into 1 possibly 2 builds.

Condition build as your not as reliant on QZ but it still is very good. Or a ghetto bunker build running mass regeneration.

Seeing as most every poll I have seen across various websites places the ranger at around #6 on pvp balance tier lists….and you nerfed conditions and haste….Ranger would easily fall into the weakest profession in the game.

Instead of saying you will let us figure it out, like you have some mega secret about rangers…why not just tell us and give some credibility? As of right now it just comes off sounding like you have no answers and a lack of exp playing the profession.

Moa yes, even mesmers agree that it needs some changes.

Treb is fine, mesmer portal is not. Treb gives tactical depth to the map in various ways. The mesmer portal really screws this up though.

Haste on warriors is not a huge deal, it is a deathwish if they fail to execute their combo correctly. Thieves it is a problem due to the init system and stealth. If thieves lost haste they would function perfectly well but not be able to insta drop someone from stealth with PW. Their damage, survival and backstab crits would still all be there. Warriors would could still function without it but I honestly see it as less of an issue for them. Rangers would be hit very hard.

Very well said and I do hope the Ranger gets some major love, though we have little idea as to what Anet thinks with regards to class balance. Outside of them trying a few times now to get pets to actually work well there has not been much implication they have other changes in store. Does not help either that the ranger is sort of forgotten when it comes to the majority of balance posts. They are either complaining about thieves, mesmers and guardians, 100B and how to help warriors or how underpowered people feel Ele is. Ranger, Necro and Engi sorta get swept under the rug so to speak.

I do hope changes come, for some reason it is my favorite profession and I mostly do SPvP. I keep trying to force myself to give the ranger up and focus on my guardian but I cant seem to do it.

I really don’t think so, it is more that engi is not nearly as popular and is far more complex then those professions.

Engi can be VERY tanky

Engi Has the best CC and control

Engi has some of the best condition and is easy to apply

Engi has the highest burst potential

They are amazing but most everyone who plays them are simply horrible. This is is mainly due to high skill cap and not popular profession.

Guardian I feel can be on equal footing with an engi and guardians are also vastly easier to play and more popular which leads to people focusing on the guardian and simply overlooking the engi.

Warriors are not as good as engi right now but again take one of the most played professions that is overall rather simple and you have a lot of QQ on the warrior, not to mention the fact that a lot of people even though they don’t admit it, are terrible at pvp. They then complain about broken warriors with 100B which is laughable to people who know what they are doing.

Eh while those professions are good yes I feel people are blowing things up far to much as well as neglecting other professions. I am rank 20 currently and play a mix of hotjoin and pug tourneys.

mesmers: Only class I feel really needs some work. They have to much going for them and can duel anyone, hold points, roam, do it all. Huge damage output, strong utility, control and durability.

Thieves: I do not play one but I have tried them a lot and of course aside from mesmers I see these classes the most. Honestly the init system is what it is and I feel is counter productive in many ways as it will lead to people always picking what is best to spam. However they are not broken, the only issue I have with them is Haste is to much with a class that can just spam stuff so easily and leads to some wayyyy over the top burst damage. Their downed state is to powerful. Otherwise the profession works like it should and many people need to learn to play. I used to panic when I saw a thief, made mistakes and now while still a challenge no doubt I know I can beat them if i play my cards right. They work well as a high burst, high mobility roaming profession.

Guardians: I laugh when I see people complain that a guardian has to much defense. First off I imagine this must be from people who are used to blowing up glass cannon builds with their mega burst combo and when this doesnt happen with the guardian they dont get to feel good about themselves. I feel the class is pretty well balanced, people dont like not being to insta kill them, well working as intended. A DPS guardian is good as well but does not put out near the damage of many other professions ands gives up much team support. Also I feel that people have not seen enough defensive spec ele, engi, ranger and warriors….most people see guardian and assume role position as the walking mass of metal, truth is many professions can be just as tanky and more so. Give it time for people to break out of stereotypes and it will come out.

Warriors are fine and good imo. Engi is greatly overlooked and one of the strongest professions in pvp hands down. Ranger is OK but needs some tweaks. Necro has a good foundation but needs some tweaks. Ele needs some buffs.

Only class I feel after 20 ranks of PvP that is obviously over the top is the mesmer.

Haste needs to be looked at and this is mostly aimed at thieves, I find less problems with warrior haste and rangers need theirs atm.

Thief may be slightly over the top simply because they fill their role so much better then anyone else can. Ranger and Ele just need to be brought up some and it should balance out.

Warrior, guardian, engi (may be much stronger then thought of once more ppl get good with them), ranger (needs some tweaks not much) are all in a good spot IMO.

Necro and Ele need the most work currently and are a bit behind the other professions.

To put it as a list…

1) Mesmer
.
.
2) Thief
.
3) Engi
4) Guardian
5) Warrior
6) Ranger
.
.
7) Necro
.
8) Ele

How I see it currently.

I do often go 4 ogre runes for the rock dog. I typically run shortbow with axe / warhorn, typical QZ based build, I run a more trap heavy condition variant and also a condition bruiser build running sword with torch and axe with dagger.

Im just not seeing it, but am more then open to further suggestions as I want to see something im missing, i like the profession a lot.

I ran my ranger again for a while today and I did very well but then I also ran my guardian and did just as well while also being more useful. I know when fighting vs othe rangers on my guardian they are pretty much free food, 3 gap closers, 4 if you count GS number 5 skill means I stick to them like glue and they just crumple.

EDIT: I have ran greatsword often, it is my favorite weapon type in the game and while it is fun and somewhat effective it pales compared to warrior and guardian greatsword, it was far to heavily nerfed during the beta. I have also ran very pet heavy builds, sure the pet can solo bad thieves or warriors but smart players can deal with that no problem, pets are still to squishy and also highly prone to AoE death. If you run a very tanky pet you give up a ton of DPS and with so much of ranger damage invested in the pets it is a huge loss and for what exactly?

I posted something similar on ranger forums as I am looking to take my guardian or ranger through PvE content. Most all I know about them and other professions is through pvp, currently rank 18.

My question is how is ranger DPS compared to other professions? I am curious as to what others with more exp have to say….

I ran some basic tests on golems with a stopwatch. Long story short, my ranger on average could down the golems 1.5 seconds faster then my guardian. This is of course using QZ and having my pet work perfectly. This also does not factor in guardian reactive damage.

Now 1.5 seconds is pretty nice considering how quickly the golems drop….however that is with using QZ, perfect pet and rotation….

In real pvp the pet becomes a less on the spot. Without QZ ranger damage goes down a lot. While the guardian killed a bit slower (not factoring in some skills I could not use properly vs golems) you have to factor in that the guardian is more durable, brings more team utility, more healing, has consistent damage and not reliant on steroid abilities.

I also play a lot of warrior and thief and I want to keep this simple so I won’t go into them much. I will say that they both have more on demand burst, strong sustained and can spec for greater team utility. Im mainly debating on what professions to make my main and focus on.

I like the ranger a lot, I find I am rooting for the ranger but PvP is my main focus and I just feel that something is really off with them. Their damage with say a jaguar and QZ up is great….otherwise it feels pretty average. Their durability is average. They bring nearly no group utility or support, you could go spirits but they are in a horrible state.

So from those who played more, are good at number crunching or run tourney teams….how is the ranger DPS wise? How well does it balance out with their overall kit?

I like em a lot but I feel like I would be handicapping myself to make them my main when I also love the guardian who feels far more useful while putting out more consistent damage and burst if ranger does not have QZ up.

So I am currently rank 17 and nearly all of that has been spent playing ranger and guardian. In fact I have been having a hard time deciding on which to “main” and so some PvE with….

One thing that I am curious is how is ranger damage output when compared to other professions?

I ran some very basic stop watch tests in the mists and I found that ranger using QZ and what I would consider my full damage rotation of skills with jaguar coming from stealth I managed to down the practice golems around 1.5 – 2 seconds faster then I could with my guardian running his rotation, though results were slightly skewed towards the Rangers benefit since some of the guardian skills I use are reactionary. So that said I would feel safe saying the difference was 1.5 seconds.

That seems well and good but that is also with using QZ, without that the results become much different. The golem is also a stationary target making is very very easy to have my pet working 100% which is often not the case in actual pvp.

The other issue is really that even when factoring in QZ and the pet working perfectly a difference of 1.5 seconds is good yes….but the guardian in a real world environment is also bringing a lot of team support even when built more towards DPS, is harder to kill, has more AoE, more healing, and his damage is not dependent on any key skills, I find it to be consistent without needing steroid skills to boost it way up.

I have also played a fair bit of warrior and thief, neither one of them I enjoy but their damage output I feel is well known and no need to discuss that further.

I really like the ranger, I find myself rooting to make the ranger my main…but when I look at the lack of group support and question their damage I find Im at a loss on what exactly my ranger does that is special.

For reference I was using Shortbow / Axe – Warhorn. QZ – Spike Trap – Last utility varies from LR, Frost Trap, Protect Me. Rest is all fairly standard stuff. I also run 1sword/ torch – Axe / Dagger heavy condition trap build.

Guardian I use 2h Sword with 1h Sword and Focus with a focus on meditations, sometimes Ill change it up and run 2h Sword with Hammer or 1h Sword with focus and Scepter with Shield / Torch.

I guess what I am asking is what everyone else who has played multiple professions in PvP ( of a decent rank) feels the ranger damage is at? Where does it fall with regards to other professions? As I said with QZ and say jaguar coming from stealth the damage is fantastic but it drops a lot otherwise and pets are always a gamble factor.

Actually rangers did use 2 handed swords, one of the most famous ones being Aragorn from Lord of the Rings. Most people seem to equate ranger as someone who uses ranged weapons, perhaps this is because of Legolas and some other well known rangers who used primarily the bow. Perhaps it is a misunderstanding of what Ranger actually means. HINT: Ranger does not have anything to do with ranged weapons.

What I find weird is the lack of 2h Axes….where did they go?!

Hello fellow GW2 fans! I am have a bit of a problem deciding between Guardian and Ranger. I have played all classes, mostly in hotjoin PvP and these two have been my favorites. However when it comes to PvE I want ONE character to focus and maybe someday an alt but normally I do not enjoy playing alts.
I will list some questions and as well some things I enjoy about each and hopefully those of you well versed in either profession can help me out.. ^^
Guardian:
I really enjoy the fact that they can wade into the thick of battle and not only survive but be very useful at the same time. Not many professions can withstand prolonged engagements without either dying or having to back out, for the guardian this is a non issue unless you spec very very glass cannon.
While the damage pales compared to many other professions it is still pretty good and as well they bring a ton of support while doing, again this is nice and a fair trade off.
So I enjoy the hybrid nature of support and dps while being able to handle yourself in full on battles without the need to flee or simply get blown up. I enjoy their versatility and the fact that they do not rely on very specific combos or abilities to function.
What I dislike is the damage while still good and more so considering what else they bring also feels lacking at times when compared to other professions. I also worry that in more structured play or hard dungeon runs you would be regulated to a more purely support or defensive role rather then the hybrid style I enjoy in hotjoin pvp.
How does the guardian do in;
Structured PvP?
What is their main role or job identity in structured pvp?
Dungeons?
What is their main role or job identity in a dungeon run?
WvWvW?
How do they perform there with their more limited range options? How do the compared to other lvl 80s in full exotic gear? Goes damage pull ahead of mitigation and support which is often the case once you reach top end?
The Ranger:
I enjoy the overall theme of the ranger and their ability to be highly effective as an archer or a melee fighter. Like the guardian I find that a melee ranger is one of the few professions that can really do well in a full on battle and still put out very respectable damage. I enjoy the acrobatics of their melee options as well.
Pets are a mixed bag for me….
I like having them and the variety of them and look forward to new ones in the future and their various abilities they bring.
I dislike that so many classes also have pets, Thieves can have 3 or 4 thief pets, mesmers have tons of phantasms and illusions, ele’s have their elemental pets, necros have a variety of pets, guardians have spirit weapon pets. I feel that is cheapens the whole pet idea and mechanic when most professions have them. Sure a rangers is a bit different as it is a companion but when you get down to brass tax they are similar, to much so.
I also dislike some of the responsiveness issues. Im OK with ranger pets being a large portion of ranger damage but not when they suffer from many issues that I as a player do not suffer from. Example would be today using a wolf pet and using it’s F2, a fear, and having the enemy simply run off a bit and ruining my entire skill. This is due to long cast animations and the pets being rooted during them, very easy to counter them. SO if rangers have less damage and gain that damage and utility from their pet, they why on earth should a ranger suffer so badly due to them being clunky?
How is the ranger in;
PvE Dungeons?
What is their main purpose or role?
From what I understand the pets are nearly worthless which bothers me since again so much of the ranger is built around them….how does this work out?
Structured PvP?
What is their main purpose or role?
What I have gotten from playing the ranger is that while fun and versatile they have a bit of an identity crisis which worries me.
TO recap?
I like the guardians support and survival but worry about what area they get forced into specializing when it comes to more structured play. I also am at times a bit dissapointed with the more minimal damage output.
I like the rangers theme, acrobatics and versatility. I do however question what the real point is of the profession and with that lack of identity I have perceived where do they fit into more structured play? I also have some issues with pets and pet mechanics.
Thanks!@

Hello fellow GW2 fans! I am have a bit of a problem deciding between Guardian and Ranger. I have played all classes, mostly in hotjoin PvP and these two have been my favorites. However when it comes to PvE I want ONE character to focus and maybe someday an alt but normally I do not enjoy playing alts.

I will list some questions and as well some things I enjoy about each and hopefully those of you well versed in either profession can help me out.. ^^

Guardian:

I really enjoy the fact that they can wade into the thick of battle and not only survive but be very useful at the same time. Not many professions can withstand prolonged engagements without either dying or having to back out, for the guardian this is a non issue unless you spec very very glass cannon.

While the damage pales compared to many other professions it is still pretty good and as well they bring a ton of support while doing, again this is nice and a fair trade off.

So I enjoy the hybrid nature of support and dps while being able to handle yourself in full on battles without the need to flee or simply get blown up. I enjoy their versatility and the fact that they do not rely on very specific combos or abilities to function.

What I dislike is the damage while still good and more so considering what else they bring also feels lacking at times when compared to other professions. I also worry that in more structured play or hard dungeon runs you would be regulated to a more purely support or defensive role rather then the hybrid style I enjoy in hotjoin pvp.

How does the guardian do in;

Structured PvP?
What is their main role or job identity in structured pvp?

Dungeons?
What is their main role or job identity in a dungeon run?

WvWvW?
How do they perform there with their more limited range options? How do the compared to other lvl 80s in full exotic gear? Goes damage pull ahead of mitigation and support which is often the case once you reach top end?

The Ranger:

I enjoy the overall theme of the ranger and their ability to be highly effective as an archer or a melee fighter. Like the guardian I find that a melee ranger is one of the few professions that can really do well in a full on battle and still put out very respectable damage. I enjoy the acrobatics of their melee options as well.

Pets are a mixed bag for me….

I like having them and the variety of them and look forward to new ones in the future and their various abilities they bring.

I dislike that so many classes also have pets, Thieves can have 3 or 4 thief pets, mesmers have tons of phantasms and illusions, ele’s have their elemental pets, necros have a variety of pets, guardians have spirit weapon pets. I feel that is cheapens the whole pet idea and mechanic when most professions have them. Sure a rangers is a bit different as it is a companion but when you get down to brass tax they are similar, to much so.

I also dislike some of the responsiveness issues. Im OK with ranger pets being a large portion of ranger damage but not when they suffer from many issues that I as a player do not suffer from. Example would be today using a wolf pet and using it’s F2, a fear, and having the enemy simply run off a bit and ruining my entire skill. This is due to long cast animations and the pets being rooted during them, very easy to counter them. SO if rangers have less damage and gain that damage and utility from their pet, they why on earth should a ranger suffer so badly due to them being clunky?

How is the ranger in;

PvE Dungeons?
What is their main purpose or role?
From what I understand the pets are nearly worthless which bothers me since again so much of the ranger is built around them….how does this work out?

Structured PvP?
What is their main purpose or role?

What I have gotten from playing the ranger is that while fun and versatile they have a bit of an identity crisis which worries me.

TO recap?

I like the guardians support and survival but worry about what area they get forced into specializing when it comes to more structured play. I also am at times a bit dissapointed with the more minimal damage output.

I like the rangers theme, acrobatics and versatility. I do however question what the real point is of the profession and with that lack of identity I have perceived where do they fit into more structured play? I also have some issues with pets and pet mechanics.

Thanks!@