Guild Wars 2

Cik.6479:

See entire here, where credit is due. It is in-depth.

http://www.necrobator.com/forums/?vasthtmlaction=viewtopic&t=337

There is much more than just a ‘basic’ list of faults, and thinking otherwise is suspension of disbelief. Nothing that can’t be fixed, but address is absolutely needed.

This material is how I feel without re-writing it:

(Long Post)

So I actively run all 8 Professions. I run them until I understand them and until I can be decent with even the worst of skill and traits. Necromancer was my first love, I’ve ran it from day 1 on the BWE until now, I’ve been tuned in to all the changes and I keep hoping that ANet will correct some flaws.

But, at this point iv’e got to say: Necro is hands down the weakest profession in the game with some pretty big flaws/bugs in it at the moment. And it KILLS me that it’s this way. I want to LOVE necro so badly but there is so much WRONG with the traits, builds and abilities.

All of this is in regards to SPvP of course.

But even the condition necro has flaws:

First up – Lingering Curse does not stack with Hemophilia – So you can’t get 33% longer conditions from the scepter and have 20% longer bleed values. Weather this is a bug or by design I do not know, or it could simply be a UI glitch . Actual testing shows that they don’t (As far as I can tell)

But I’ll stop myself there if I am going to get into what’s wrong with the Necro’s I better do it by the categories.

Weapons:

-Staff:

Oh the staff how we are forced to take you. There isn’t a build out there that doesn’t have a staff in it, and if there is it’s for PVE. First off it is a totally contradictory weapon with an exceptionally weak spam able attack combined with an assortment of conditions. Simply put we are forced to take this because of the utility rather than anything it does simply because Necrotic Grasp is a Combo Finisher. I’d rather trade whatever meager damage this has and give it some sort of condition.

Nothing worse than switching to this weapon in combat (as a condition Necro) to use it’s Marks and then spending a good 10 sec’s being useless as you spam Necrotic Grasp hitting for around 300 dmg a pop until you can switch weapons.

I agree that overall there is more than a ‘basic’ list of things that need to be changed, but in the limited capacity of 5,000 words per post I wasn’t willing to try to blog out everything I’d found here. The intention is that people like you, will (and you have), lay out more issues that I wasn’t aware of.

I really loved your account of “running around useless” with the staff. Let the first necro who hasn’t experienced this please step forward. The auto attack DMG on the staff is just pitiful. I have no idea why its so low. The only time you can get a decent amount of DMG out of it is when massive groups are involved. Piercing bolts as I stated does often get me into trouble anyway.

Our other weapons have far too short of a range and much too low DMG for the risk taking they involve. Who is crazy enough to get Dagger or Axe range on a warrior? You’re going to get demolished.

I don’t have much experience in sPvP and I’m glad we have some players here who’re clearly much more experienced in that area. I am much more focused in PvE currently, but do have plans to step into sPvP in a more regular and serious way, but have been holding off a bit, for obvious reasons.

I think our problems start in the Weapons department, where everything just feels weird, and damage is seriously lacking. Many of the abilities in our Utility skills lack any type of synergy, our pets are almost too dumb to use at all (and too squishy without specific Traits), and most of the rest of our abilities are just downright odd and almost useless.

Plague/Lich Form are decent Elite skills, both tarnished in their own ways by bugs/bad mechanics. Flesh Golem is really a good pet and if they could make him controllable and halfway intelligent it could really help solo necromancers out.

Our Traits I’ve found aren’t very impressive either. I’ve been slotting for things I feel like I should probably get for free. Heal on Life Transfer being one of the few that I really like, along with Protection w/ Well placement.

Even if they fixed pet AI (and gave us control of them) they’d still be largely useless in an environment where a Warrior or Boss can 1 shot almost all of them. They need some kind of AoE DMG reduction, or at the very least flanking behaviors. Pets also need some sort of scaling mechanic, which I do not believe they have. Gaining a coefficient of the Owner’s Stats would probably be hugely beneficial for all the minion masters out there.

I like the idea behind the necromancer, and I really do like the Kit, but the numbers, the bugs, and some of the mechanics need to be fixed, buffed, and generally brought up to par with other professions in the game.

Casey.9185:

I agree that an elite well would be awesome, and the ability to use at least a couple underwater… But there are a lot of issues with water combat it isn’t just a necro thing. It is good to see that a lot of people agree that wells are good, they just need a slight nudge. Bigger radius or a few seconds off the cooldowns would make them perfect. However you have to consider the trait synergies with wells, there are quite a few. That is why balancing them can be a little tough, they are quite powerful as they are when used right.

They’re somewhat powerful. Relative to our other skills they’re amazing, relative to other professions abilities, they’re just so-so.

I don’t think another 20% off their CD would be out line. Taking the 45 second CD to just about 25. That’s still only a 20% uptime for the Well. For our signature abilities I think that is reasonable.

Warriors can use Hundred Blades every 6 seconds and it routinely does 12-15k Single Target DMG, and can strike ALL enemies in a cone.

There is no way you can’t justify making wells better. They need to CD faster, do more, and as stated above give some kind of relatively powerful lingering effect that makes people/mobs hit by them afflicted in some other fashion. Say moving out of the well of darkness causes an additional 2 seconds of blindness. Or Moving out of Well of Blood allows allies to receive a HoT that heals for 50% of what the well does for the rest of the duration.

Sartori.6758:

As for elite skills, I think plague form can be considered a “well” type ability in a way. I don’t really have any issues with our elite skills.

Staves, while offering the best utility have horrible damage. Scepter/dagger with a staff switch is probably the best choice for now as it offers the best combination of aoe damage and utility. Axe/dagger with a staff switch is arguably better for a pure dungeon wells build, but the axe also suffers from horrible damage. Stacking vulnerability for your teammates is all well and good, but not doing any damage isn’t very fun. Dagger mainhand offers the highest single target dps, but it’s a bit clunky to use effectively. Horns can also use a bit of a buff, right now they are heavily overshadowed by dagger and to a lesser degree, focus off-hands.

I think the biggest issue of all though, besides the numerous questionable abilities, is the way our traits are setup. With every other class you can go down a trait line and there is a cohesiveness to the way everything is laid out. With our traits it often feels like someone just randomly stuck abilities here and there without much thought.

Anyways, like you I don’t think necros are broken beyond all repair, the class has good utility and is pretty durable, it just needs a few (ok, maybe a lot) adjustments here and there.

The issue is that Plague Form doesn’t benefit from any of the traits that benefit wells, unlike the flesh golem or the lich form which scale better according to what you’re after (pets or DPS). Altering Plague Form or allowing it to benefit from all the same traits that wells do would go a long way in my opinion.

Weapons are pretty spot on. Daggers obviously highest DPS, but still leave a LOT to be desired imo. Axes are just “wtf ?” the DMG and utility is just so so weak on axes. Scepter may have good sustained DMG, but it still doesn’t offer much in the way of good burst quality or anything like that.

Staffs generally I think are the best DPS in group PvE, due to the fact that most of the instance is trash and hitting 3-5 mobs with the AoE as well as piercing bolts almost assuredly gives more DPS than anything else we have. That’s probably because everything else is just that bad. With Power traits and CD reduction you can really put out some decent ##’s with a staff, as well as applying regen, and laying down combo fields.

I haven’t tested a Condition Spec w/ Scepter yet, but I’d like too. Just finishing my last two pieces of exotic jewelry and I can start throwing money into less productive ventures.

Aga.8641:

On paper Wells look nice, but in reality they are not, the range is too small, the duration is not enough, they are too easy to avoid and the effects are weak. Look at a mesmers null field, this is basicly well of power + corruption * 9000, it removes all boons from enemies and all conditions from allies if anyone touches it, where as our Wells remove 5 of each and to get those 5 removed you have to stay inside the well for the full duration…Seems fair right?

I think a good solution to Wells would be make them last longer and give some kind of linger. So the effects will stay on whoever was in the well for 2-3sec after they leave, this would be an amazing step for both PvE and PvP if it ever came to fruition.

Giving wells a lingering effect would greatly improve the group performance of a Necromancer. I’ve got my guildies trained to stand in the wells whenever possible and I put them in strategic locations where I feel they can be taken advantage of.

In full Healing gear a Well of Blood is about 700 HP/s, which isn’t bad. Having the combo fields everywhere is also really nice, gives tons of utility when used properly.

Making them bigger is a nice solution, but I like the lingering effect idea better. Would make them much better in PvP too I imagine, where its probably laughable to just roll out of a well.

I feel like wells should do even more DMG, and the utility wells should last longer and apply other effects. Knowing now that Mesmers have an ability that is literally better than two or ours AND only takes up a single non-elite slot is pretty disheartening.

I still agree that pets are the biggest overall problem, but we have to remember that we have no PvE DPS option, we’re so far outclassed by other professions that I think literally the only role we’re going to effectively fill right now is Support/Healer. We Support/Heal quite well when with competent groups though, that’s for sure.

• A Note

Support Necromancer seems to be extremely good for PvE. I am able to get protection up on the party through long periods of time using the trait that gives protection each time a well is placed. My Well of Blood does a significant amount of healing with Exotic +Healing gear equipped. Around 600 per Second.

Using the Blood magic trait “Transfusion” I am able to do some impressive burst healing as well.

Well of Suffering, Well of Darkness, and Well of Corruption are my token abilities, for Utility slots. I have taken the -20% CDR for Wells and find them to be the very best aspect of the class.

Plague form blindness spam “2” is incredibly effective in PvE. Keeping a group of elites blind for 20s at a time is very very strong.

I primarily use a staff and have found that using this build properly I can really create positive situations for my allies and allow the many hard hitting warriors in my guild to execute maximum DPS.

I don’t believe that currently we can touch the DPS numbers of many of the other classes, but we have superior Kiting and survivability. It is common for me in PvE to kite elite abominations or something while the rest of the group handles the other.

I do believe that our debuffing ability is very strong and that build around this via wells is currently the most effective way to PvE in group content.

I will try to update this if people find it useful. Feel free to post below with any particularly effective builds or issues. At a later time when I am less weary I will most properly elucidate my own.

• Our DMG is fairly Weak Without Pets

-When I was leveling most of my DMG was my pets. That was fine until I started realizing just how dumb the behavior of said Pets actually is. I understand that they’re meant to be disposable in nature, but they are perhaps too disposable, and they become a massive liability in later areas, where you risk aggroing large groups of Mobs with pets.

- Part of the issue here is that all our weapons are very weak for DMG. Even with tons of power and precision we still do next to no DMG compared to many of the other classes in the game. Warriors (I know I know) can execute 15k+ DMG with a single hundred blades on multiple targets in a cone in front of them. I understand they’re in melee, but even with Dagger/Axe this amount of DMG isn’t possible even single target. The Axe is very weak due to the long CD and overall slow application of the “burst” DMG it seems intended to produce. The Daggers are weak because the DMG literally comes from the Auto attack and not from the life drain and immobilize.

-Staff is the only viable choice since it really does offer superior utility. It requires the Trait that increases the radius of the circles and makes them unblockable to be useful. Also, the “1” key on the staff is very difficult to use properly due to its piercing nature. Often it pierces much too far and I find that it causes problems in both solo and group situations. Staff DMG also leaves much to be desired, due again to long CD with fairly weak DMG attached to the abilities. Another major issue with the staff is that the mechanic used to deploy the ability does not work on targets like Dragons, which is a pretty huge letdown.

-Giving the staff “1” key a small AoE on contact would likely produce a much more reliable and allow the ability to function as originally intended.

- There is a significant lack of traits that homogenize well with the weapon skills, aside from the 20% CDR traits and the like. The Blood Magic tree is the only tree that offers significant benefits for using a particular weapon, and if you’re suppporting you almost have to use a staff, so it’s quite funky in that respect.

• Death Shroud is Actually Really Really Good

-I can’t help but feel the reason we do so little DMG is because of this mechanic. It wouldn’t take much of a DMG increase for this to get completely out of hand.

-DPS builds centered around this ability are probably our best hope for both burst and sustained DMG.

-Staves and “Blood is Power” are by far the best methods for generating life force quickly and reliably. Staves as stated before are the only really good weapon due to this fact in my honest opinion.

-I think that this is one of the few areas where the Necro is actually pretty well off.

• Signets are really terrible

-Not only do signets fail to bring any significantly powerful passive options to the table, they don’t bring any particularly good actives to the table either.

-As some of the traits emphasize Signets it makes these particularly ineffective to use.

-Not much more to say here. I use the 10% movement passive to run around Lion’s Arch, and that’s the only time I ever equipped it after my initial testing of said ability.

• Posts have a 5,000 Character limit

First off, let’s iterate very clearly that the Necromancer is NOT broken beyond all repair, does not need to be completely reworked, and is not a completely useless class.

• There are many threads floating around, but nobody has spent time creating a single thread where we can list ALL of the issues we’re experiencing, possible solutions, quality of life changes, our feelings towards the role of the class and/or our overall impression of the class.

• Current Issues

• Pet Mechanics are completely and utterly nonexistent

- Where is my control bar? How do I manage these guys? Why do they randomly attack mobs from vast distances at random intervals? Inversely why do they sit and watch while mobs beat on me at others? Why do mobs tend to ignore the Flesh Golem and Shadowfiend, but fixate on the Bone Fiend and Blood Fiend? These are all things I have had trouble with.

- Pets get absolutely murdered in any fight with AoE, no matter the trait point allocation or amount of healing done. Many of the mechanics in this game are meant to be avoided, and currently there is absolutely no way to make me pets dodge a massive AoE. This needs to be addressed for PvE.

- In an MMO released in 2012 it is inexcusable to release a pet class that has absolutely no control of their minions.

• Wells are good, but excessive CD’s and lack on an Elite Well Bother me somewhat

-While most people would consider wells are best characteristic at this point in the game (seriously, they are great Well of Darkness particularly is very very good in group PvE.) they are lacking in the CD department. Their potency doesn’t reflect their CD. Compared to other classes in the Game with Massive DMG ability on 6-10 second CDs it seems pretty unacceptable to have a well on a 30-45 second CD that does about the same amount of DMG. This is the primary reason that utility wells are generally the ones being used.

-Why isn’t there an Elite well? A much larger AoE effect slow, blindness, heal, or really anything would be hugely beneficial to the support player. Currently Everyone uses Lich, Mist Form, or Flesh Golem. I don’t see why an Elite well wasn’t considered since it’s one of our primary class defining mechanics.

-Wells should use ground targeting by default. Putting this is a trait is seriously not fair.

Doing High level Explorable modes (some of which seem crazily overtuned atm) without any form of dedicated support or someone who can put themselves in the line of fire just isn’t going to work out overly well.

Not all over the Expl. Modes are a joke like CoF is.

The Trinity is gone insofar as a dedicated healer is concerned or a dedicated tank is concerned, but you still need to fill roles accordingly.

Some of the members should focus of debuffs, buffs, as well as doing DMG, and others should be DMG oriented, while still being able to support themselves.

Glass cannon builds will not work in the higher end PvE content, and without a suite of buffs/debuffs you are going to be hard-pressed to make it through some of the more difficult pulls in an instance.

Dodging of course is a universal constant in the PvE scene and avoidance is kind in this game, but my guild has found that some support is definitely neccesary. I don’t support by healing predominantly, but keeping large groups of mobs stacked with vulnerability, blindness, or slow is very powerful.

And then the AoE starts coming having a 600 HP/s heal on the ground that creates a field of condition removal ain’t too shabby either.

If the intention was to spec 5 glass cannons and do runs there would be no healing/toughness gear in the game.

There is healing gear, there is gear built to allow players to soak some hits.

There is also aggro mechanics that you can learn to exploit. Trying to revive a downed player will almost always draw aggro. Good thing they gave Healers +toughness on their gear… It’s all intentional guys.

It isn’t WoW-esque Healing/Tanking, but its still there, nuanced in its own way, I personally find it very liberating and have a great time on my support necro.

Get Power/Toughness mainly. You’re going to be getting a lot of vitality from the Blood tree for the daggers anyway, you’ll gain more survivability by putting some toughness over all that health and power obviously for DPS.

You may want to run with Flesh Golem, since he can tank rather well for you.

Personally Nothing worked better for me leveling than a full set of pets, staff, and Power/Precision gear.

You take almost no DMG as the pets are there and the staff (2) constantly heals them.

Pickup +50% pet HP in Toughness Tree, and then pet DMG trait in Power tree.

If you’re going to be in melee range, pickup Well of Darkness and use that for tougher enemies.

Also, throw on Axe/Focus or Warhorn if you’re going daggers, because at some point you’ll need some kite to kill certain mobs. Not everything in this game is melee friendly.

Don’t underestimate Utility skills for necro, a lot of them at a glance don’t seem so great, but when you start realizing you can keep a pack of mobs BLIND for 25-30 seconds a time you start realizing our true power is debuffing, basically the antithesis to the Guardian.

With Vitality perks and toughness/power gear you’ll quite literally be a Juggernaut. You’ll obviously still need to dodge things, but you’ll be impressed by how much punishment you can take when you’re using necrotic form properly.