Guild Wars 2

hackks.3687:

this thread is kind of surprising and seems rather knee-jerk to the fact that Ele’s aren’t a free stomp anymore once downed.

The only real issue with Mist Form when downed is it resetting the HP on the character. That just shouldn’t happen. That being said though, once they use it they’re done and it’s an easy stomp regardless.

- Thiefs require 3 stomps (3rd being the successful stomp)
- Mesmers can require 3 stomps if they play it correctly on top of continuing to dps with phantasms while downed – lol at iRogue spamming HS
- Warriors’ Vengeance is ridiculous and counterintuitive to the whole mechanic.

-No, thieves don’t need more than 2 or even 1 stomp if you have a blink – you can easily stomp, watch them blink and then dodge roll to avoid their cripple and stomp again. How’d you get 3, anyway? If they manage to avoid the 2nd stomp with their invis, they’ll avoid the 3rd, too, since their blink’s up now.
-Mesmers – 3 stomps? Are you that guy that finishes off the clone instead of the real one?
-Warriors – you have to finish a warrior if he’s downed, easy as that. 1v1 if you stomp right as they go down, they can’t vengeance, and in an xvx (x>1), you need to stability finish the warriors.

Nyth.3492:

I can see why it is the strongest, or one of the strongest out there. But if you view it in perspective there is a lot of unjustified whining out there as well.

1) While Mist Form technically resets health, you actually get downed penalty each time you use it. Mist Form away and you start with 50% HP and you health goes down much faster.
The OP makes it seem like MF is a surefire way to indefinitely keep in the fight, this is bull.

2) The OP assumes that in every other situation you always have access to a stability, teleport and/or 2 people for a stomp. In any case where you don’t the ele downed is actually not as powerful as the others.
As ele I have a 100% chance to avoid the first stomp. But if the opponent doesn’t have stability or a teleport, I can avoid getting stomped a lot more and a lot longer on many other classes.
Note that the cooldown on Vapor Form has been changed to 20 seconds, meaning that with the extra downed penalty (point #1) you won’t be able to use it a second time unless you can heal yourself up.

In the end though I agree that for tPvP this ability is on the ‘too strong’-side. Especially the fact you can force people away from a point is imo too strong.
But you really have to get some misconceptions and false assumptions out of the way if you want a fair debate over what to do with it. Even in tPvP you don’t always have access to stability for stomping or have 2 players around to stomp or a teleport, and in those cases the ele downed state is hardly the strongest.

1 is valid, I guess? I didn’t get the impression that the OP was telling us that MF is a surefire way to stay in a fight, but uh, alright.

2, however – every single class has at least one way that guarantees a nice, clean stomp against the CCing classes – stealth, quickness or stability (possibly even two or three of those). Yes, quickness won’t guarantee your stomp vs anyone that isn’t a necro if they see it coming, and yes, stealth won’t help against guardians, but the counterplay is there, and this is actually a great strategic element – “Who do we want fighting that thief? Our guardian that can blink after him, or our warrior that can burst him down better?”

Also, the whole “But your allies were rezzing you! Resetting your hp is a negative to the ability!” are, um, probably not quite as skilled as they could be. If you need to mist form, you’re either A) being stomped or being hit. If A, this is even better than a normal stomp-while-being-rezzed: if the stomper doesn’t have stability, you just have the rezzer CC them (he doesn’t have CC to stop a stomp? uh, alright, that’s bad, but still – mistform away), and if he does, you use mistform – A ends up being equal to other classes (w/o stability-stomp) or it ends up being on par with the mesmer result (maybe even better) and way above all other classes’ results. B: well, keep rezzing the downed ele, I guess? This is kinda worse as the ele doesn’t offer anything whilst he’s being rezzed, but it’s nowhere near catastrophic, and in worst case scenario, just have them abandon the rezzing and mistform away until they CAN rez you.

The problem in your case, I believe, is the one related to you unequipping an orichalcum hatchet (probably for a lower quality one) – that’s another bug that’s already discovered.

However, at one point I had been randomly getting ruined ore chunks after 1-2 successful times of mining – this looks like much of the same thing, so maybe I’m wrong, idk, but today, when exploring a lower-level zone (Fireheart rise, was it?) I was mining a gold ore with a mithril mining pick. The first two swings I got a ruined ore chunk – at that point I realized that something’s wrong, so I stopped and mined again – this time it gave me the gold ore.

I definitely agree that the ele down-state is kinda too strong, but just changing it to another AoE daze would be boring and throw their down state into useless-tier again. The thing with all classes is that they have something kinda special going for them - a stomp-stopper (be it invis, teleport or cc) followed by another skill (down-state heal for winning down-fights, vengeance for, uh, yeah, or simply another piece of damage/CC), but all of them have counterplay. Thief, engie and warrior can’t actually chain their 3 after their 2 if the stomper is competent, ranger, necro and guardian don’t really do anything after their CC and mesmer has already been explained in-thread.
For elementalists, there is no counterplay. They click 2 and just walk away, negating any work towards finishing them (be it a stomp or just general damage, cause they heal to full).

I’m sure ANet can come up with something good, but two ideas off the top of my head - don’t make mist form heal you and you can still take damage while in mist form (so it’s just used to move and avoid stomps) or move mist form back to 3, but make it have about 3.25 second cooldown, so that you can use it if you successfully immobilize someone before they stomp you (if you got downed whilst they were on your face? Well, stop getting downed whilst they’re on your face - literally every single profession faces this problem)