Guild Wars 2

Thanks for all your input, Thief it is

That’s just it, I love the play style of both! I’m leaning towards Thief for the stealth, as I’ve always loved stealth classes. Thanks for your input

I love both classes, but only have time to make one my main and I’m really torn between which to choose.

I play casually so will only have a couple of hours in the evenings and maybe more on the weekends. I’ll probably end up being more of a solo roamer as I can only play when it suits me. I want to be able to get in, do as much damage/harm as possible then get out hopefully without dying.

Given that scenario, which profession do you think would suit me best?

Many thanks

Plague.5329:

You can run a Warrior build without Frenzy, although a Warrior’s main advantage is its ability to burst damage and disrupt constantly. Not bringing it is tantamount to forgoing that advantage, and not optimizing appropriately. I actually tend to run without it, because unlike GW1, there is no cancel stance to use it. I instead just use Endure Pain along with the mandatory Balanced Stance (which has been acting weird since the last patch). Usually either Bull’s or Bolas if I’m feeling like being a pest, to fill in the third.

When you run a melee build of any kind you’re generally locked to those skills because of how the class operates. Balanced, Dolyak’s maybe, Endure Pain on a good portion of them and Frenzy. The others are often novelties because they don’t orient themselves directly to what the Warrior is supposed to do. Since you can’t trait effectively to change playstyle (5%, 10%, etc), this makes it hard to get those skills off your secondaries. Ranged builds don’t necessarily require those skills but they often find their way onto your skillbar anyway. A lot of the Warrior secondary skills also tend to just apply a boon or up your defense, offense, etc rather than actively doing something that changes your playstyle. No clones or smoke bombs or teleports or making impassable walls, etc. Just +stat.

That’s my point, the majority of Warriors feel like they have to take Frenzy because they would be kittening themselves without it. And they pretty much are too, not that they can’t get by without it as you say. But it gives them such huge burst potential, burst potential that really has no place in competitive PvP.

I’m looking forward to ANet’s first major balance patch, I’m very intrigued as to what they are going to do with Warriors and Quickness.

Dallas.2536:

Sweeet.8127:

Dallas.2536:

well phantaram from paradigm made my warrior look embarrassing last night on his ele lol

As damage, I think they are too gimmicky and thus too easily countered at high level competition, and if when they get real matchmaking implemented you won’t see many at high tier games, except maybe in a support or point holding role.

If they can make warrior less viable to faceroll baddies and average players, but more viable in higher tier games, that would be an improvement. It really shines right now versus average to bad players because it can kill them really fast, but any skilled player using any other class would attain the same results. It would just be less obvious because its over a longer period of time.

Plague made a good point about dps warriors not ‘doing’ as much as other classes. Traitwise its mostly getting things like 10% damage vs bleeding, 10% damage with a certain weapon, etc, which leads to a very stat-driven gimmicky build. And then to effectively deliver damage, the utility skills pretty much always need bulls rush and frenzy and stability, and if you swap any of those out you are asking for trouble.

If anyone played HoN, I would say warriors in a damage role are kind of like Deadwood. You can destroy everything up until 1650 or so, then the dropoff is dramatic and you never see him in competitive games.

So, it all makes sense now, you actually feel that the only way to be an effective damage dealing warrior is to run a frenzy build… No wonder you get so antsy when people request it be removed or toned down.

I’m not saying Warriors are fine without it, just that you have a major conflict of interest going on there buddy. Warriors definitely need a tweak, but Quickness is NOT the answer to their current situation, I’m sure even you can see that.

The very fact a build has to rely on an ability like Quickness, not only shows how broken Warriors are, but how powerful Quickness is. Both could do with a reasonable tweak.

no im accepting of the situation and am in the process of transitioning from warrior :P

frenzy destroys noobs. it always has and always will. drops off dramatically against higher tier players. I argue against people who want to remove frenzy because I don’t think the answer to bad play is to encourage it by removing things that cause it. it would be better for the bad players to get better, no?

Oh absolutely, but just because you can learn how to deal with a bad game mechanic, doesn’t stop it from being a bad game mechanic. This game is supposed to not only cater to the “Pro’s”, it is supposed to cater to everyone of all different skill levels. An ability that allows a player to decimate a lesser skilled player without even given them a chance, and that is also just a crutch ability to give the profession using it a chance, has no place in PvP.

You seem to think the only reason people want it toned down or removed is because they are “bad” – that is an incredibly one dimensional way of looking at things. We are looking not only at skill levels of said players, but all aspects of PvP and how an ability like Quickness affects those aspects of PvP.

No one ability should be a crutch for a profession to make them feel somewhat viable. No one ability should decimate a lesser skilled person without giving them a chance to react. No one ability should turn off players by making them feel so utterly helpless if their defensive cooldowns aren’t up. Everything about Quickness is a detriment to PvP as a whole. The only thing it does do is allow broken Professions to get by. It’s a very bad crutch ability, nothing more, nothing less.

Dallas.2536:

well phantaram from paradigm made my warrior look embarrassing last night on his ele lol

As damage, I think they are too gimmicky and thus too easily countered at high level competition, and if when they get real matchmaking implemented you won’t see many at high tier games, except maybe in a support or point holding role.

If they can make warrior less viable to faceroll baddies and average players, but more viable in higher tier games, that would be an improvement. It really shines right now versus average to bad players because it can kill them really fast, but any skilled player using any other class would attain the same results. It would just be less obvious because its over a longer period of time.

Plague made a good point about dps warriors not ‘doing’ as much as other classes. Traitwise its mostly getting things like 10% damage vs bleeding, 10% damage with a certain weapon, etc, which leads to a very stat-driven gimmicky build. And then to effectively deliver damage, the utility skills pretty much always need bulls rush and frenzy and stability, and if you swap any of those out you are asking for trouble.

If anyone played HoN, I would say warriors in a damage role are kind of like Deadwood. You can destroy everything up until 1650 or so, then the dropoff is dramatic and you never see him in competitive games.

So, it all makes sense now, you actually feel that the only way to be an effective damage dealing warrior is to run a frenzy build… No wonder you get so antsy when people request it be removed or toned down.

I’m not saying Warriors are fine without it, just that you have a major conflict of interest going on there buddy. Warriors definitely need a tweak, but Quickness is NOT the answer to their current situation, I’m sure even you can see that.

The very fact a build has to rely on an ability like Quickness, not only shows how broken Warriors are, but how powerful Quickness is. Both could do with a reasonable tweak.

So this is supposed to be one of the best competitive sPVP teams out their, and they won off the back of a Thief spamming Quickness with Pistol Whip…. And people are seriously trying to defend Quickness?? This game is in more trouble than I thought.

JediSange.1645:

Mmm. It could be because my original post didn’t go through, but I’m fairly certain I covered use cases in even fights, in 1v1s, and in 1v Many.

In any case, I’ve stated my opinion more or less clearly: I do not think Quickness is out of balance. However, that is not to say it isn’t. What the latter part of that means is that we can not prove it. Balance is a very formal thing. You can literally prove balance, deterministically — in other words, game balance is not an opinion. Simply, we can just have intuitions to help us say if it is or isn’t.

Well thanks for your opinion anyway, I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree. My intuition through years of playing multiple MMO’s competitively tells me that the game would be better off without Quickness in its current state. I don’t think some form of Quickness would necessarily be a bad thing, but having some of the most powerful abilities in the game able to consistently perform at half their speed whilst outputting their full damage potential, is one game breaking mechanic I can’t see going unchecked for long.

JediSange.1645:

Art:
The reality is you need to balance 1v1 to show balance for 5v5. This is called induction. From early dev blogs, you can see that ArenaNet is committed to this.

Sweeet:
You getting ganged up on is not the definition of imbalance. If you are fighting 2v1/3v1, your team should be out-manning them elsewhere. It’s not as simple as you’re boiling it down to be. The TL;DR for this whole thread is that this game is 3 weeks old. We can not speak accurately on balance. Give it time.

Now you’re assuming I’m getting ganged up on, that was never the case nor did I say it was. I’m not talking about 2v1 or 3v1, I’m talking about high level competitive play in which you get the third round of a tournament, only to be scuppered by a team abusing Quickness to take you or a team mate out before you have time to react, or when you can’t react because you’ve been forced to blow your defensive cooldowns.

None of the guys I run with use Quickness, they too think it’s a cheesy game mechanic that has no place in competitive PvP. Yet every third round match we’ve been beaten in, has been because of a Warrior or Thief abusing it like there is no tomorrow.

You keep on trying to act like the problem doesn’t exist yet because the game is not even three weeks old. Well I’m here to tell you the problem does exist, and it’s not going to get any better. As a matter of fact it can only get worse, as more people realise the risk vs reward of using Quickness at the right time is far too lucrative not to take.

Yes top end teams are learning how to manage the noob teams who are trying to use Quickness, but when teams start jibbing people into using their defensive cooldowns and dodges, we’ll see just how powerful Quickness can be. Not that we don’t know already, we all know exactly how powerful Quickness can be…

You sound like an intelligent person, yet you are either unwilling to see how detrimental Quickness is for the game, or you lack the foresight to see the game would actually be better off without it. No one profession should be able to take someone from full health to nothing in a matter of seconds within a competitive PvP environment no matter what the circumstances. There is nothing competitive about one class gibing another, nor is it to be praised or balanced around.

You’ve also said, and I quote;

JediSange.1645:

Notice that I’m not actually saying Quickness is balanced. I’m just saying it’s too early to determine that. And evidence is pointing to it not being out of balance, due to how few of competitive teams are running Quickness.

Conversely, I think the teams I have seen NOT run it are doing so because everyone is specing anti-Quickness atm. So we’re just in the 3rd week meta… it’s to be expected.

How exactly is it too early to determine that? How is the evidence pointing to the contrary?

You have an opinion, make your mind up for gods sake, either you think it’s fine the way it is, or you also see that it is a detriment to the game. Stop beating around the bush waiting for “metrics” that may never be reliable. Use that brain of yours and think about what Quickness allows a player to do in a competitive PvP environment, and ask yourself whether you think said burst from one profession in a matter of seconds has any place in competitive PvP. It’s not exactly a hard concept to grasp, it’s not like the game would fall over without it.

Well, do you think the game would be better off without Quickness, or do you think Quickness adds a level of competitive play unreachable without it? I’m eager to hear your actual thoughts on Quickness as a game changing mechanic.

JediSange.1645:

milo.6942:

Many players are performing the following logic in their heads:

“I lose badly to a particular set of skills, therefore the game is wrong to allow it”

Instead, try:

“I lose badly to a particular set of skills, what can I do to prevent this?”

This. This x9001. I want to recruit this man.

You have no idea how many times I’v evaded one Quickness abuser, through dodging or using stun breakers, to be hit my another player abusing the exact same mechanic…. Please, give us all a break. If you are honestly saying we should all save our stun breakers and dodges to only avoid players trying to abuse Quickness then that alone proves how broken the mechanic is. Quickness is NOT the only thing you have to dodge or stun break in this game. You know that, you know that all very well, yet you keep on making out “it’s too early to tell because it’s not rampant in top end sPvP yet”

Is wasn’t rampant in casual sPvP either, not until people started figuring out how effective it is. Now everyone and their grans are playing Quickness specs, it won’t be long until the same people figure out how effective it can be in Tournament play, then we’ll start seeing exactly what we’re seeing in casual sPvP, it’s only a matter of time .

Dallas.2536:

Sweeet.8127:

Dallas.2536:

Sweeet.8127:

There was no Quickness in GW1!

Herein lies the problem, you don’t need a full team to spike someone down in GW2, not with Quickness, just one person, that’s all it takes.

burst of aggression, frenzy, tiger stance, etc

as to your second point, stop running around with 16k hp

look i know you’re a pro that wins ‘most of your games’ with your guardian, but people such as myself who win 80% of their tourney games as multiple classes are doing fine playing against 100 blade warriors and heartseeker thieves. yes we get caught and yes the first few times it happened we were like what the hell just happened, but we didnt have the attitude of “this needs to be removed from the game omfg”. instead we learned how to beat it.

they can nerf it or remove it for all I care. I’ll adapt. but people like you, its not going to satisfy you because the 100b warriors will just start throwing bolas and doing the same combo over 4 seconds to you instead of 2 seconds, and then you’ll be back here whining about 100b or bolas or whatever is killing you after quickness is removed.

at some point you should look in the mirror and ask if maybe, just maybe its you.

That’s right you have me all summed up don’t you….You know me so well. And what exactly have you added to the discussion apart from doing you best to be as condescending as possible? Nothing at all. So how about you actually try and be constructive, if its at all possible.

So tell me oh great one, how do you beat teams running Quickness specs? How about you actual give some advise instead of putting people down like the child that you are.

1) dont run around with 16k hp

2) dont blow your stability / stun breakers on the first cc you run into

3) be ready to dodge

4) teammates should be ready to peel

4) recognize that your attitude of asking for skills to be removed from a new game is a loser’s attitude. quickness is a skill that is meant to provide burst at a long CD and with vulnerabilities. it does what it is meant to do. it is not a GG button unless you are bad, period.

5) when you claim things like “this wasnt in gw1” realize i just listed 3 skills that are quickness and were in GW1 and I could name another 5 if I looked through the wiki

and the reason i dont respect you is like i said, 100% of the time someone goes super emo with “X is OP I’m quitting the game unless you remove it” the person is a baddie. i mean really why are you still here, at the rate anet patches PvP nothing is going to change for months.

So Quickness is the only ability I should be saving my stun breakers and dodges for is it? Wonderful! I guess you have it all figured out don’t you…

It’s called integrity, I pay’d for the game and I believe that at present Quickness is breaking sPvP, both casually and competitively. More so casually of course…. As such I now refuse to play until I deem sPvP is fixed, which means either Quickness needs to be toned down massively or it needs to be gone. Nothing “emo” about it, just standing my ground like the paying customer that I am. I have lots of games I can play, no-one is forcing me to play GW2 and I’m sure as hell not going to cry about it. I’ve been meaning to pick up where I left off in Assassins Creed Brotherhood for a while now. Time to move onto a game that isn’t broken in the hopes this one will be fixed.

Play your broken sPvP if it makes you happy, I would say I’m happy for you but I’d be lying.

Dallas.2536:

Sweeet.8127:

There was no Quickness in GW1!

Herein lies the problem, you don’t need a full team to spike someone down in GW2, not with Quickness, just one person, that’s all it takes.

burst of aggression, frenzy, tiger stance, etc

as to your second point, stop running around with 16k hp

look i know you’re a pro that wins ‘most of your games’ with your guardian, but people such as myself who win 80% of their tourney games as multiple classes are doing fine playing against 100 blade warriors and heartseeker thieves. yes we get caught and yes the first few times it happened we were like what the hell just happened, but we didnt have the attitude of “this needs to be removed from the game omfg”. instead we learned how to beat it.

they can nerf it or remove it for all I care. I’ll adapt. but people like you, its not going to satisfy you because the 100b warriors will just start throwing bolas and doing the same combo over 4 seconds to you instead of 2 seconds, and then you’ll be back here whining about 100b or bolas or whatever is killing you after quickness is removed.

at some point you should look in the mirror and ask if maybe, just maybe its you.

That’s right you have me all summed up don’t you….You know me so well. And what exactly have you added to the discussion apart from doing you best to be as condescending as possible? Nothing at all. So how about you actually try and be constructive, if its at all possible.

So tell me oh great one, how do you beat teams running Quickness specs? How about you actual give some advise instead of putting people down like the child that you are.

JediSange.1645:

Well, I addressed this in a very formal way in my original post. The problem is you’re not approaching balance formally. The idea isn’t that some philosophy is balanced because of X Y or Z. Balance is formally defined as regardless of the initial state of the game, the outcome (formally this would be the size of the outcome set) remains 50/50. Nothing about Quickness inherently breaks this.

In other words, game balance does not depend on your views or philosophy about a mechanic. It also does not depend on whether or not burst vs sustain is balanced, etc. The idea that Quickness creates intrinsic imbalance is fallacious.

An excerpt from my original post:

“Any good computer science major should understand that games are deterministic and therefor provably solvable. However, that is a formality for a presentation, not a forum post. That being said, you can not simply say two weeks after launch that your feelings on a matter justify changing the game”

Nowhere did I say it creates intrinsic imbalance, kind of putting words in my mouth there. What I have done is made out it has the potential to greatly imbalance the game.

You could have two teams, exact same specs and professions, exact same skill levels. One team takes a form of Quickness for each profession, the other does not. I can guarantee you the team timing their Quickness at the appropriate times would beat the other hands down every time. The damage potential whilst using Quickness is INSANE if used on someone who is unable to avoid it. And yes, there will always be times when you are unable to avoid it.

There is no philosophy, there is only first hand experience. I have tried a Pistol Whip Thief, a 100B Warrior and a Crossfire spamming Ranger, and they all led me to the same conclusion – damage potential whilst using Quickness is massively out of control. There is no other way of looking at it, no philosophical debate, just out of control damage potential that needs to either be removed or toned down about 75%.

Ergo, Quickness is indeed unbalancing the game, not intrinsically, but through its potential to cause MASSIVE uncontrollable spike damage from just a single profession. It’s a chaotic system that has no place in competitive PvP.

Fantom.9217:

That’s just stupid. Removing activated cooldowns to reduce burst damage is a terrible idea. All that does is make people stand around autoattacking each other to death, which is boring and the worst possible outcome for competitive PVP.

In RPG/MMO PvP, players should constantly be using cooldowns or “twitch” abilities to counter what their opponents are doing or to take advantage of mistakes. They should not be just sitting their whacking each other for half a minute just to break down the enemy’s health + heals.

Low TTK is perfectly fine, and I actually enjoy it a whole lot more than the long drawn out bore that was BWE1 (and Catacylsm on the WoW side of things).

I’m not sure if you’ve ever actually done high level competitive PVP in GW1 even. “3…2…1…spike” was everywhere in that game and I fully expect coordinated damage spikes to be how PvP in GW2 will sort itself out as well. It’s the same as WoW’s PVP as well (well, how it was when WoW had good PvP). That’s just how things work in good PVP games.

If you’re dying in 1-2 seconds then you’re doing something wrong and you need to learn how to avoid that burst. I’m not against balance changes (like Heartseeker) or reducing the base damage of other attacks, but the idea that we should be removing burst cooldowns from this game is absurd. We should be giving MORE classes access to that type of play actually.

You make it sound like there is no burst outside of Quickness… Don’t be absurd. There are plenty of ways to burst a player down without having to rely on such a cheesy game mechanic. But you also just proved a point without even realising it – yes you could organise spike damage in GW1, but guess what? There was no Quickness in GW1! But the point you really proved, is that it still required a team effort in order to burst someone down, you would all use your burst skills to spike at the right time.

Herein lies the problem, you don’t need a full team to spike someone down in GW2, not with Quickness, just one person, that’s all it takes. Have someone apply pressure, force you to waste you defensive cooldowns and then BOOOM – head shot. And all it took was one person waiting for the right time to strike. And no I’m not talking about a 2v1….before you get antsy.

Its far too powerful left in its current state. NO PROFESSION should have that much burst potential, not in a competitive game, ever.

People can try and justify it all they like, its not going to change anything, Quickness will get toned down or removed whether you like it or not.

Gigawatt.5217:

I like quickness because without it some of the most bursty skills in the game become far less of an issue. Quickness causes those weapon skills to have longer cooldowns on there maximum effectiveness than the cooldown on there standard use.

This helps to add depth to the skill pool by putting in a strong “3-2-1 SPIKE!” skill without saying hundred blades needs a 60second CD. Which would be silly for a weapon skill.

It also allows for a lot of play in it’s use, you can burst with a variety of weapons in different ways whether you want to use Haste with Pistol Whip or Haste your Auto Attacks with Sword + Dagger.

I’ll sight the exception for Heartseeker, but that skill is just blatantly broken.

The issue is not that Quickness allows you to burst, it’s the amount it allows you to burst for given how well it scales with some abilities. How do you balance a game for competitive PvP when people can run around 1-shotting people in 1-2 seconds given the right setup? Not to mention it can turn a high survivability support build to also have very strong burst.

None of the above should be possible by a single profession in a competitive PvP environment, especially given that ANet want GW2 sPvP to become an e-sport… PvP will remain highly un-balanced until Quickness is gone, no amount of particle effects or indications of someone using Quickness will change that.

JediSange.1645:

I had a 6900~ character post typed up. They didn’t let me post it. So I’ll just give you the TL;DR I had typed:

- Game has been out 2 weeks. Balance is not known yet.
- Top players don’t necessarily run Quickness.
- Both sides have options in and out of the situations in both 1v1 and 5v5 engagements.

Guild Wars 2 isn’t easy to solve. It is not simply DPS-in vs DPS-out. You need 1v1 balance to show balance by induction to 5v5. Beating Quickness builds 1v1 are fairly trivial. More formally, both sides have options to bait different things. In a 5v5 situation if 3 Quickness builds chain one person down, it is likely they sacrificed a lot to do that. Between immobilizes, hard CC, healing, and retalliation there are a lot of ways to anti-quickness. This intuition shows us that the game is deep and competitive.

That was the best summary I could give, and it’s still wordy. -_- Anyways, here is a fairly straight forward paragraph from the original post:

“For example, I’m fighting a Quickness Warrior running Bull Rush/Frenzy and wants to get into Hundred Blades, swap to Axe/Shield, etc; It’s the cookie-cutter build going around at the moment. Literally all I have to do is dodge roll the Bull Rush. If that wiffs and he pops Frenzy (which almost every warrior does during the rush itself), then not only did I get out of his stun, but he is also standing there like a fool taking 50% more damage. However, he could bait your dodge rolls and then full combo you. This back and forth (because this conversation literally could go on forever with the mixups) is what gives us the intuition that a game is competitive and deep. Note that I’m not using the word balanced here because that intuition is not sufficient to say that.”

I appreciate you taking the time to post. But that doesn’t address the issue at all, which is game balance.

Let me explain where Quickness breaks the game. You have two types of damage, burst damage and sustained damage. The game is balanced around these two damage types whilst factoring in survivability. You can spec to have decent survivability and sustained damage – this is balanced. You can also spec to have decent burst but low survivability – this is also balanced. What quickness does is turn someone with decent survivability and sustained damage, to also have very decent burst if timed right. And we all no what it does to glass canon builds… No need for me to go there.

Quickness directly un-balances the game, sometimes to a devastating degree. In a game that is aiming to be an e-sport, a game mechanic that messes with balance as much as Quickness does, has no place in the game at all.

How any rational person could even try and defend Quickness is beyond me, well they’re certainly not being rational that’s for sure.

Dallas.2536:

Sweeet.8127:

Exactly, couldn’t have said it better myself. The people defending Quickness either don’t play the game competitively, or have some pretty bad self-esteem issues – or they’re just bad and rely on Quickness as their saving grace.

generally speaking people like yourself who make statements along the lines of “X is OP and I’m quitting until they remove it” are the ones who are bad. just sayin. winners dont have attitudes like that

No I just have more self-respect than most. Quickness is breaking PvP – I only play for the PvP, ergo I will not play until it is fixed. I’ve won the majority of my games on my Guardian, winning is not the issue. The issue is PvP is no longer fun or competitive to play for the most part because of people abusing a game mechanic that shouldn’t exist in the first place.

The people who would actually try and defend Quickness are the real bad players, not the ones advocating its removal. It breaks the game, end of, or can you actually come up with a solid argument on why it should stay? I bet you can’t.

Dreadspectre.3456:

Dallas.2536:

i very rarely die to someone due to their quickness burst so i’m going to have to go with no. it’s really not that hard to avoid if you know what do look for. and if you’re the type of person that is going to rage quit pvp because of it then you are probably not going to be satisfied no matter what because there will be a ton of things that always own you.

Please stop acting like you don’t die and get blown up by the random Warrior or Theif popping up from behind you because you were busy dealing with their teammates in a team based game and get destroyed in a few seconds because of quickness.

I don’t rage quit. I just know a bad mechanic when I see one. There’s always those people who come onto the forums and are like “oh it’s for noobs only etc etc” yet there is plenty of evidence to the contrary if you do any tourneys at all.

Burst will always be king in PvP. Frankly, I’m amazed that Mesmers aren’t packing the AoE quickness elite more than they do.

Quickness adds nothing of value to this game. All it does is take TTK down way too low to have any sort of enjoyable fighting experience. Yeah, you can dodge it in a 1v1, I’m not talking about a 1v1. I’m talking about team environments. Someone drops 1 CC and your stability is on CD? Dead.

Games should not be like that.

Exactly, couldn’t have said it better myself. The people defending Quickness either don’t play the game competitively, or have some pretty bad self-esteem issues – or they’re just bad and rely on Quickness as their saving grace.

Arheundel.6451:

Yes pls remove it or give to every class!

Why would you want every class to have it? sPvP is bad enough as it is, if every class had Quickening it would be utter chaos, more so than it is now.

No you’re not the only one, I pretty much just made an “I quit” thread over Quickness and what it is doing to sPvP. Until it’s gone, I’m gone.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/sPvP-is-already-one-big-cluster-veryuglykitten

Let me lay it out on the table for you. Casual games are no longer competitive, because there will always be 2-3 players spamming Quickness, either through procs or using abilities. And please don’t give me that bull about people not using Quickness in Tournament play, the amount of times we’ve been hard countered by a couple of players timing their Quickness to ensure they will always catch you with one, is beyond annoying. There’s only so many times you can evade or stun break or use defensive cooldowns, and even stacking toughness does little when two people with quickness focus someone. There will always be times when it is simply unavoidable. There is absolutely no place in competitive PvP for any class to have such an insane damage/time ratio.

Quickness is single-handedly breaking sPvP, it can be utterly devastating at times whilst requiring minimal skill and setup, how it ever made it into the game is beyond me.

I’m only playing for the competitive PvP as I find PVE boring, I never did like cheesy fantasy. So for me Quickness has to go, and until it has I’m done with this game. I was enjoying competitive sPvP at the beginning, but now everyone is speccing into Quickness as it scales so well with certain abilities, and thus the game is no longer competitive – not when one boon has the potential to hard-counter so devastatingly.

If you ever want this game to succeed as an e-sport, Quickness has to go, it’s as simple as that. Anyone with half a brain who plays sPvP at a competitive level can see that.

I wonder how many Quickness abusers with self-esteem issues will come to defend their cheesy boon? Let me say this now so I don’t have to repeat myself – you could all start by dropping quickness and trying to win using some “real” skill, not riding your way to victory on the back of a cheesy boon that requires minimal skill. Best start now too, that way you can get some practice in before it actually is gone.