Showing Posts For Syntax.9602:
Well… you should differ a little bit.
Portaling over walls is fine (if the mesmer got their legally).
Portaling over walls may not be intended
“Hey all we have some plans to fix some of this. It is currently being looked at so expect a fix in the next few weeks. Basically we like that Portal has this power, but it shouldn’t be able to bypass walls, etc.”
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/WvsW-is-unplayable-because-of-mesmer-portal-abuse
Actually this post is almost a month old, but it state that the portal works as intended by they might make it not bypassing walls (I guess they mean undestroyed walls).
I’m still not playing on Far Shiverpeaks…
And well… no idea what you mean but RUIN actually is stressing my nerves by telling me over and over that we should get 24/7 coverage. No idea where that players should come from.
And no, we are not falling in the rankings. We go to T3 again, get up again, go down again, go up again, go down again, go up again… well this will most likely continue for a rather long period (well it already does work that way for 7 weeks).
Actually it is some kind of long tradition to make fun of different aspects of american. Our media (well exspecially cabarett and such stuff) really likes Mitt Romney or the americans just slaughtering Bin Laden and the whole “the world is centered around us”-attidude. And the nasty part about this is that RUIN is actually behaving much the same way. They came to europe for competition now all european server should cry for oversea-help to be competitive, thats a pretty egoistic perspectiv. WvW wasn’t perfect, but it somehow worked for 5 weeks. There was literally no Oversea-Presence (SFR had a small american guild, but not many, not even sure if it was a guild or just players) in the european brackets and no it is stupid to argue with 500 hebrew-speaking canadians.
There was an issue with nightcapping, but most servers hadn’t much night-presence on the strong nightcrews on Vizunah and Riverside shrinked because the queues during primetime were to long. And no RUINs decided to make us start all over again, with no chance of ever balancing things out.
Such a Rating-System is not adjusted for large performance changes due to players leaving servers or servers getting demotivated in their current matchup.
But the problem will solve fast if only one empty server is in a bracket. The only reason why HoD isn’t losing 200+ Points is because they will win against ET. If they lose against both servers they will drop a lot faster.
The Problem is the Math behind this.
The Matchup consists of 3 seperate battles.
HoD lost to Blackgate
ET lost to Blackgate
ET lost to HoD
So HoD actually gets a ranking-bonus because it is winning against ET (this bonus is depeleted by the malus they get from losing to Blackgate). But if ET would have won against HoD it could have happened that both servers stayd T2.
But to destroy the illusion… unequal match are what you should expect. T1 and T8 seems to be pretty equal (lowest server only about 1/3 worse than the best). But T2 actually seems to be the worst in NA.
Syntax find 24/7 coverage is the main option, if you want to be T1 and soon T2, if you cant, then have fun and enjoy the fights in the lower tiers. Bashing the players on servers with 24/7 is not going to help. Last week and this week we suffered from day capping and BT(XAOC) forced us to try some new strategies to combat this with our limited forces during this time. You guys are going to have to find your own strategies and use the time spent on these forums bashing us more constructively.
Ok, so finding 24/7-Coverage is your way of adapting to the system.
I do not want to abuse your kindness any more, but is there a way you could share your knowledge off german oversea-communities with me? I would really like to know whom I should contact to get some germans from GMT-7 or GMT +9 and whatever, since the only ones I know happen to life in GMT+1 for quite some time.
Since I’m a nice person I will also tell you what you could do to make both of us happy. It happens that there are some very low populated american brackets too and I heard the opponents there happen to have nice doors too. So instead of deconstructing our hard work of carpentry every day you could bother them instead.
Or I have another good solution for you. How about being nice guests here in europe and adapt to our culture by sleeping when we do.
And I still must laugh about the expectations of T1. I guess ArenaNet should implement friendly fire, since there won’t be alot enemies even in T1 at night and americans are used to shooting their own people.
(edited by Syntax.9602)
We do not want small scale pvp… it is just that we are only about 10 people. WvW-Players are not like bunnies you can’t summon them out of a hat.
But since RUIN is so fond about telling us to adapt I still want to hear their ideas about adaptation?
Well actually Millersund isn’t in the real position yet. They received most of the players that left Riverside and start to crawl up from being 22 or so. Some organized Guilds just left Riverside because of long queues and unfortunatly the gap between the german servers are quite large. You have 3 server T3+ and 4 Server that where below T5, so to even out the population it was totally clear that one of the german servers would get opponents that are a lot weaker than them. But normally Millersund gets about 140+ Rating per Week and you should only see them once.
Actually the 3 Orbs would not be much difference, since they should outnumber you almost the whole day. And yeah since only the large WvW-Guilds transferred to Millersund the Server is quite heavily focussed on WvW now.
They actually do have some decent tactics and organization too, which makes it hard to beat them with 3 Orbs on their side. But they are as much aware of the problem as you are
“Die tun was sie noch können und ich ziehe meine Hut vor den aktiven WvW Gilden von LdM, da sie es trotzdem versuchen.
In ein paar Wochen wird es eh so sein, die Server in den ersten 3-4 Paarungen sind brechend voll… dann ein riesen Loch… und dann kommen die leeren Server.
Bin gespannt wie viele von Miller verschwinden, wenn wir mal 1-2 Runden nicht vorne stehen.
Also bitte keine anderen Server fertig machen, nur weils denen an Spielern mangelt, taktisch sind die nicht so schlecht, sie tun was sie können."
What he says is that he shows a lot of respect for the guilds on Ring of Fire and Aurora Glade because they fight as good as they can and you should not mark players of server as bad because they lose while fighting outnumbered for the whole match.
He assumes that you are victims of free transfers and some people left your servers after a match wasn’t as expected and he fears that this might happen to his server too if it climbs up. He also aknowlegdes that you don’t use that bad tactics and that you are doing all you can.
Explain what you mean with “adapt” please?
It would suggest taking the doors with you.
And I’m still not sure what Desolation is especting from the french. Vizunah is already crying because Arborstone recruited 30 canadians… just imagine what it will be if they notice that they lose to ten times more americans. The only difference is that they whine in the french forums, so you will most likely not notice it.
But they normally just counter it by transfering to desolation to waste supplies and get their supply-achievement (which actually is a clever thing, considering that it is hurting more than actually fight at night).
“Tier 2-3 will be just as much fun and will have great competition in EU prime which you can enjoy just as well and you can ignore tier 1 as if it didnt exist.”
Thats just completly wrong. We fought against Servers below, and we will drop to Tier4 because we don’t have a nightcrew, or morningcrew, or highnooncrew… or whatever.
We where matched in T4, and since we don’t really play bad (well we managed to get 270 Points yesterday without even getting our borderlands full), we totally dominate the T4-Server in our primetime. We managed to get 400+ constantly in the last week, which isn’t fun, since this servers can’t match our organization and dedication. But well, they get to T4, because they have more players at night as other servers, and they got most of their points against us during the night (well at least on of the servers).
So T4 isn’t fun because we almost own everything for the whole week (we had keeps that we haven’t even lost a single time). And in T3 we might again fight against Oversea-Crews although SFR does not have as much americans as desolation.
The only thing we could do is allying with other german servers if we are in the same bracket, since our community is quite friendly and the german servers are in good standing with each other. But this would mean, that during our primetime, we would combine efforts to trap the non-german servers at their spawn an share the map.
Of course is language a barrier since on german servers only german is allowed (I actually get a warning for writing english^^), so we would obviously need americans that could speak a bit german to understand what we want to tell them.
“You don’t hear the US servers complain that the Oceanic/Asian players should not be allowed on US servers.”
The basic reason is, that all us-servers are english servers, which gives all of them the same chance to get large off-time coverage. If you allow americans in europe it is like saying “Yeah, we made a ranking for you too, but you are not meant to participate in it.”
FS inviting US and Latin American guilds to conquer the EU top spot (and Eurpeans welcome, too...)
in WvW
Posted by: Syntax.9602
Activily the ones wanting to ban americans from europe servers are we kodash players since we cannot compete even slightly with their forces at night. We played a lot of matches against servers that were stronger than we, but mostly because they were more dedicated to stay awake until 3 or 4 am, not because they just lived in another timezone just to destroy all our well placed doors (and sometimes even walls).
If you’re coming home from work owning nothing wouldn’t it be day capping?
I actually never call it night-capping myself, since first it isn’t night in the USA and second it is more Off-Peak-Capping, since Australia would have its primetime at 12am for us, so they would technically do high noon-capping, or asians would do breakfast-capping.
And the problem is, that a comeback is rather difficult, since almost no people are online, the people that come online look into the battlefield, see everything colored and no one is there and they log out again.
No, what’s killing WvW is fickle players who only play for a stupid scoreboard and give up when they can’t “win.”
Night capping is only a problem because players are more concerned with points than the perks of having 24/7, round the clock, WvW.
It’s not the scoreboard. It is coming home from work owning nothing on the map and fight against… well luckily only two Orbs. I don’t see any “perks”
Yeah, we asked Anet what we should do in this situation, and they gave us a permanent Orb as present :P isn’t helping much though (at least the map looks a bit red with the orb^^).
Well Vizunah and Arborstone totally hate each other. If you are able to understand a bit of french just read their forum. Arborstone has a bit of canadian help (Armata isn’t that large should be about 30 people), but Vizunah does not even have strong primetime-presence, since most good guilds left because of long queues.
Germany and France will have holidays next week (and the french should have holidays until mid november, so one week more). Germany has holidays now (for most states).
Well… the problem is that there are no options. There are german and french servers, which do not have the option to get large oversea-populations in EU.
Now all those people could switch servers (well the spanish too, since they do not have enough timezones to be competitive). I know that 6 of the 7 DE-Servers have queues on Primetime if the battle isn’t yet decided (exspecially on weekend).
So you do expect that they all switch to EN-Servers, this would mean probaply about 5.000 players to distribute between 14 european EN-Servers. This would mean 350 people queueing during EU-Primetime on every server more. I guess it would be 150 more if you count the spanish and french too. So all EN-EU-Servers would have 500 more people in Queues at primetime, and most EN-Servers already do have queues. On the other side you would have 13 totally deserted servers in means of WvW.
I’m not sure if it is meant to be that way. But if you care about WvW staying on this servers isn’t really an option, because the rating unfortunatly allows you to get matched against a lot stronger opponents (basically because the rating sucks, since it ignores motivation completly, which is a rather big factor).
And there are already those clever people that say we should switch server. Do you really expect all the 7 WvW-Communities of the german servers to switch over to english servers? This would totally destroy queue-times during european primetime and is just not possible. Exspecially if you count the french servers too, that are also quite limited in regards to timezones.
The tendency of americans and whatever joining european servers created a situation where you do not want to get points, because otherwise you would go into a bracket without any chance to achieve something, which isn’t fun. The european brackets are already split into the Top3 which are quite strong and everything below which is no real competition.
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/4
It looks like this if our server is in Bracket 4, which is totally inacceptible, because we controlled most of the map for… well most of the day and while this might be fun for americans, we totally dislike this. But since we could either have this or the same the other way around we prefer the first.
And our night-time players, although not much play because Desolation has only badgehungry players online at this time. It should be clear that we do not get keeps at night by fighting. We just sneak in, because nobody is on guard at this keeps, because they all camp both spawns. They even beat on people while they are invulnerable, which does not even make sense, because they get killed by the spawn-guards.
The real problem is that we need a lot of money for this. Getting a keep costs two rams, which are 12 silver, since you can’t capture the keep with a lot of people you won’t get much gold from the events. But you also can’t make kills (well sometimes this works nice, but later if the numbers go down it’s not possible). But literally all you do is totally pointless. If you get a keep you need to get it at a time that makes recapture within the next score-phase impossible, which is really hard. If you get even scores on primetime it is pointless, because although the majority of our players do play at this time, the only create a minority of points, so even if we would manage to get a small lead in the evening which is hard enough against normally opponents with more orbs and upgraded keeps it would not even matter.
Actually the hardest thing is to achieve about +300 in primetime (if all 3 Servers are actually full, which isn’t the case always), but yet the only thing that matters is getting +700 at night, which is totally frustrating.
Well… it is just because we do not need a lot of people, since the american zergs are incredible unorganized and weak to sneak-attacks. It’s like 50 people standing in front of our Spawn not noticing that they get attacked at some of their castles.
We fought against many servers at night and Desolation now has the largest numbers with the worst organization.
We fought against Riverside in the first week-match which was a total disaster, since they outnumbered us greatly and had good tactics.
We fought about Elona the next week who fought with dedication and first started Battleground-Hoping to stretch their numbers. We battled Elona again a week later, with literally no resistance from our side, since it isn’t worth investing a lot of time just to lose twice, although we got the matchup even at primetime (so we hat about 250 Points for 4hours and 0 the rest of the day). After that we got SFR and Desolation, and although we stand good chances because we have numbers at night from Saturday to Monday (since most people stay awake a lot longer from Sunday to Monday) we lost since than, but it wasn’t that bad, after RUIN joined we basically stoped fighting back.
And the reason why FS isn’t fighting back is because they do this for about… 6 Weeks? And if I remember right we were about 10 people deffing our last keep, and most of this people that were in TS need to go to work the next day. You just can’t stop sleeping for 6 Weeks.
And I find it fun that the argument for RUIN joining europe servers is CaSU… if they would have done real research, they should have noticed, that hebrew isn’t a common language in canada… or do they really believe that 500 canadian jews play on Vizunah O.o
So if I look at your points:
“a.EU servers did not give up until the match was over. They were fighting even though losing right up until the last minute before reset.”
Yeah clearly seeing this. With no queues at all and most our people left WvW, we just try some new tactics to perform during the next week, this is what we normally do, but we got around 70 points or so at 5pm, which is hilarious, but I can’t blame anyone.
“b.Pubbies (pugs in US) were very willing to listen to direction, donate to war funds for upgrades, and generally for 10 times better than any US pug. They understood general tactics and would implement them without even being asked.”
Not sure about that, but at least germans think that most americans are fat and stupid. So nice to hear that americans at least feel the later about themself.
“We have been informed of an organization called CaSu that are mostly French Canadian. Alot of players on the EU servers fear CaSu.”
So you really based your transfer upon the guild that does not even exist. You know that CaSu is just a joke, but I seem to forget about the point before, strange that everybody sees the canadian flag, but nobody notices that they do not speak french…
Actually I was informed that a large group of german WWII-criminals that fled to south america play on Elona O.o pretty good information.
“People assume ruin will leave when we hit Tier 1 or when we have our first loss. This simply is not true. We have actively invested hours of time into recruiting more guilds to this server. Today we have received a contingent of Russians officially over 450 strong. Desolation is now considered a 24/7 covered server. We can now hold our own against any FR server that tries to bring 24/7”
Yeah… sad to smash your ideas here… but I do not think what you expect of Vizunah, Elona and Arborstone. I played against Elona and their nightpresence isn’t even twice as strong as ours. And they defeated Arborstone and Vizunah.
“RUIN is extremely happy to be here and we are not going anywhere. We did not come here looking for easy wins, we came here looking for the best competition.”
Yeah, nice for you, but our community pretty much hates you for that, because you actually created a trend that leaves the german servers behind in a not acceptable way. 3 of the largest europe servers are german servers with only one being competitive. And even some of the smaller german servers are at least listed as full (or were, a lot of germans already stopped playing because of WvW… or at least they say so).
Under best circumstances you will meat us again next week, since our servers suffer mainly the same problem. We go up to T2 because of strong maintime and drop down again because of no Nightcappers.
It looks like Kodash/SFR/Riverside next week, so make sure to help Riverside a bit to keep them in the bracket, because Ranik is expected to get an exodus from Vizunah, since they are beaten by Arborstone in T1 and seem to lose ground to Elona too.
Or we should discuss allying during the night :P
Or well just use the free-transfer and go somewhere to get the achievement :P
Obviously they are meant to be used this way. And than you could talk to a friend and meet somewhere to kill each other 50 times, this will also net you a lot of badges :P
What I said. The week before RUIN was actually fun.
You only think of your good, but actually even german servers have some people that can only play at night. We lost to Desolation before, but it was a lot closer. Now if you log in at night you could only dance at your spawn, you could not even cap some ressource-caps since even they are defended well enough because you are totally outnumbered.
We actually even stopped playing, it’s some kind of promise to Elona to get them out of T1, so that they could get some sleep at least. And yeah Arborstone got some Canadians now, but they aren’t that many, but enough to win T1 (should be 30 to 50).
It might fun that RUIN feels well on european servers, but they startet a trend of joining EU-Servers that RUINs WvW for a lot of servers, exspecially most german and french servers that have not have the ability to get oversea-presence to that extend.
They are only T1 because they showed a lot of dedication, and literally had no sleep. Now Arborstone recruited some canadians, after they got beaten by Elona to prepare for Desolation, but I have no idea if they stay.
Mixing all kind of timezones kinda works for NA since there are only english servers that have equal chances of recruiting oversea-guilds, but in europe you basically will create two class-wvw. And the greatest problem is, that until all that servers are T1 they stomp everything and totally destroy WvW.
It is fun if you lose at night while being outnumbered a little bit and actually have a chance of getting one tower. And the result of this is a matchup where both enemies stopped fighting 3 days before it is over because it is totally pointless.
We battled Desolation before and lost, but we actually had the feeling that we have some chance of winning, which is totally gone now.
Well now replace FS with Kodash, are you saying we should look for some oversea-communities.
Oh I know some fun preparation, how about starting a war again, our latest efforts were not that successful, but I think invading Australia and make it german would be a way to go (well Australia is not so much different from Austria…), we really should start preparations for that.
So Anet decides to give us german servers just to say as you are kittened because your country was not imperialistic enough to spread your language (well actually germany didn’t even exist during colonization). But if you say 3 weeks… I remember something taking not much longer^^.
So basically the only reason german servers were successful was, that there was no oversea-presence to face and the battles were completly dictated by overall population and dedication. After RUIN we have now the first proven canadians in T1 (about 30 to 50, but they might leave again for US-Servers, because they lack competition, they are just testing a bit).
Actually competitive means getting a mindless american zerg to join your server and they can’t even compete in flaming since they are sleeping while we flame them, which is not more fun than fighting against doors.
The only reason they joined is because they obviously decided to avoid competition. I’m not sure what RUIN expected, did they really expected to meet a canadian hebrew-speaking guild with 500 members? Did they expect us to stay awake just to battle them?
There are 12 Servers of whom you can’t expect to get a nightcrew + 2 that are literally stuck at the bottom. And since WvW isn’t fixed you will always have a borderline were the english obviously superior servers will battle the french/german servers.
And than Desolation is always talking about preparation. RUIN dropped out of nowhere, Desolation hasn’t even asked for them they just decided it would be fun to chop some wooden doors and had chosen Desolation for this, since there opponents seem to have the best doors I guess.
So Desolation just got a lucky drop with getting RUIN and no everybody sucks because they weren’t that lucky… and as Desolation fought Vizunah the french were some real baddies to fight at night and this without major oversea-presence.
You will meet Riverside again maybe (at least Vizunah if they drop from T1 because of Desolation and Blacktide), but to ease the confusing, they are now called Millersund :P
We actually hoped to be out of the way of extremly populated servers with large night-presence… but well we got desolation again -.-
I don’t think Elona can hold on over a long time. Looks like even germans get exhausted sometimes and it is really hard to stay awake long over a large period if you have to go to work on the next day.
Maybe you should try to get some 500 more Canadians to fight RUIN :P (If you are on it, we would gladly take some german canadians too^^).
(edited by Syntax.9602)
Yeah FS does really well at morning. They managed to get a whole 20 Points. Because an incredible amount of siberians swarmed the battlegrounds.
So first Siberia consists of GMT+5, GMT+7, GMT+9, GMT 10, GMT11 and GMT+12, second Russia has no Sommertime so -1 to all of them. GMT+9 to GMT+12 does not even has the infrastructure to field a large WvW-Guild. Siberia has about 38 Millionen inhabitants, but most of them live directly behind the ural in GMT+5. Even if they would be spread equal each timezone would only consist of about 6 Millionen people. For comparison the USA spread over 5 timezones (one less, well if you count some islands it would be 7), which would mean 10 times as much people per timezone.
To field a full WvW-Crew all the time 0,03% of all the inhabitants of some of the siberian-timezones need to access far shiverpeaks WvW. Only 8% of all russians use the internet on a daily basis, so it is doubtful that this number is as high for siberia (since most younger russians leave it for larger cities in western russia).
So i highly doubt that Siberians have anything to do with this match. And I have yet to see a lead of FS in the morning (well they have twice as much points as we have… but this isn’t that hard).
Some more people live in the south (well not in numbers, but Siberia only has less than 3 people for every km². If you compare the asian with the european part of russia, 85% of it’s population live in europe.
Well our opponents in Tier 4 where pretty weak. I would not go as far as prefering certain tiers, since that makes no sense. We had some good fights against SFR when we meet them, although they are a lot stronger than us, but thats what makes the fights fun. We also want a rematch against riverside, no idea how strong they are now. FS seems to be pretty fun with good tactics too and they will most likely drop too.
So it has nothing to do in particular with tiers it is certain servers that are fun to play against.
I don’t think that FS is worse than us in regards to tactics.
But the main reason why we rely on good tactics is that we have no other option. Since we can’t get help for our offtimes. And actually since this match is already lost to use we will try some new stuff and go for a bit of new techniques, which might not be that successful, but somewhen you need to try out new stuff.
And that is what makes us strong at least sometimes.
The Problem is, Vizunah is already falling apart cause of the queues. A lot of players left Vizunah lately and Arborstone is already preparing for the same. They just have horrible queues, because if they have nightcoverage it is provided by players that also play a lot during the day. Vizunah and Riverside had the largest queues of the european servers with both about 5 hours. Riverside already broke apart and Vizunah is about to join them. So Desolation will not have real opposition until some other servers get a lot of oversea-presense.
And now let’s imagine that after blacktide some more servers get nightcoverage (FS or SFR as example) that is even stronger than desolations, they will race up to Tier1 and the same exodus that happened to desolation once before might happen again.
Just look what happened to HoD in the NA-Brackets and actually might happen soon to JQ. The servers that get Number 1 are swarmed by people who want to play on Number 1 and the increasing queues slowly destroy the server because the good WvW-Guilds leave.
The real problem about Tier 1 is, that everyone expects the best WvW in Tier 1 which is again totally false. Tier 1 are mainly the most populated Servers, which because of this have a lot of coverage in Off-Times. Some FS-Players might remember, but Vizunah often was really terrible, they entirely relied on their ability to field strong numbers at night (although not as strong as desolation).
So if you focus on getting Number 1, you should be aware that this has it’s drawbacks and your server suffered once from being Tier 1 and you should be aware that this could happen again.
The top tier servers have a great night presence. Whether that’s due to different time zone presence, high population because they’re a specific language server or just because they’re full of people who stay up really late doesn’t matter. The fact is those servers have top coverage over night.
Desolation needed help because we could never get that sort of coverage by ourself. We used the rules that Anet set up with the 24 hour warfare system and got ourselves some help. Now we only have one weak time period and we’re looking to strengthen that too.
Here are two totally false assumptions. Desolation has never played against Elona. So how does it happen that a german server without oversea presence manages to defeat arborstone and vizunah? And now Arborstone defeats Vizunah and Elona. The simple reason is because they stay awake a bit longer, which they can’t do for long. So they win this week and lose the next, because they are exhausted. Now you should be aware what the problem is if a server joins this 3 that needs no effort to keep the numbers high on evening.
Your next false assumption is that Desolation needed help. What Desolation will now most likely get is the same as the other 3 Servers in T1 have, large queues. Desolation never needed help. Maybe they needed some time to recover from losing some players and to adjust their rating, but thats all.
If I follow your argumentation, we would also need help, because we don’t have night coverage. But on the other side we have no queues (the highest is about 30min in the evening, which isn’t much), a good organized community and lately we even have a great mood all the time, because we don’t want to be T1 and most likely never will be. So we have fun while losing and fun while winning, sometimes even more from the former than the later.
We want to play against equal opponents that give us great fights and we really do not care much about points. Actually Kodash lost 4 matchups (this one counted, since we will lose most likely), was placed 2nd twice and we won one matchup which was quite hilarious since we had almost no opponents even during normal primetime (6pm GMT, our enemies were outnumbered, since Baruch only made points with nightcapping, but where unable to field an army at day).
During the boring week some people actually left Kodash and joined our enemies to make the battle a bit more fair and fun.
So you said Desolation needed help… for what? If you want to make matchups more boring… congrats you achieved that.
The simple fact is that RUIN makes all efforts during primetime worthless, because you will get the points at night nevertheless. And you should understand, that there could be people (and I guess there are) even on Deso who dislike that fact.
So what has RUIN actually achieved for Desolation, despite having different opponents. There isn’t really a difference in what league you play. And because of queues I would prefer playing in lower tiers everyday. Because it makes no point to play in Tier 1 if playing actually means waiting 2 hours to get on the battlefield.
PS: I do not see how FS is Morning-Capping, they had 20 Points at 10am, which is not exactly the definition of morning-capping^^
(edited by Syntax.9602)
Actually you haven’t done anything like that. It was just RUIN knocking on the door to do some PvD on Desolation. They could have also chosen Blacktide over Desolation, since with RUIN Blacktide would have a complete coverage.
And I do believe, at least it feels like this, that Desolation was a lot better organized before RUIN than they are now. This is mainly because all you do during primetime is completly unimportant, since it only creates a rather small amount of points.
And I find it rather funny how this should be a 24h match if there is just no option to get coverage for a lot of european servers. Actually 11 Servers are tied to special languages and funny enough 3 of this Servers made it to Tier1 but since they don’t have oversea-presence they have terrible queues (I won’t count 30 canadians), which are about 4-5h on Elona on Weekend.
And yet there is this stupid matchmaking, which always boosts us up to Tier2, because we either got completly dominated by Off-Peak-Capping (since technically it isn’t night in the USA) or we dominate our enemies because they are low enough in Tier to not be as well organized.
Everyone would agree that the best battles happen at primetime, when all the servers max out their capacity. But yet this battles are totally unimportant, because the minority of off-peak Players create the majority of points.
And no the rating will never adjust for this. Imagine two Servers, one with only australiens, on with british. They are 12h apart from each other. So half the day to australians lead and the other half the british lead. But both servers will never have fun playing against each other, but still the rating will say that they are equal.
And thats the whole problem. FS will have the same problem we have but on a much higher scale. FS will drop in tiers because not having a night-crew and will totally destroy there opponents in lower tiers, just to jump up some tiers again and to get dominated by nightforces. And this will repeat over and over and will start an endless circle of dominating and getting dominated, which is not really fun. We are actually in the 7. match now and we never experienced an equal battle between all 3 Servers.
And I actually blame RUIN for making this even worse, since they started some kind of mass-exodus of american guilds to do PvDoor on european Servers and now every server that is able to (namely the english servers) is crying for oversea help.
I still find it funny how everyone is saying you need other timezones to compete, but still neither elona nor arborstone do have them and Vizunah has about 30 canadians, which mainly go for EB from 1 to 3am GMT.
Even now (it is 15:19 in germany) FS already starts pushing Desolation back and I have yet so see a real lead on primetime. And just for Definition, primetime is the time when overall numbers for WvW-Participation Peak out. This should be around 6pm from our german view (since this is already 8pm in moscow (you have no summertime)).
At 6pm we normally start to get queues and of course we can’t instantly take everything back, same should be true for FS if there forces come online. And they also have to fight with 2 Orbs difference vs. upgraded objects.
FS propably always was the best organized Server in Europe, and they will most likely stay like this for some time. Desolation already drops, their organization was a lot better in times, were they actually had to fight to win. They still won via Nightcapping but not to this extend and they were harder opponents during the day, and they dropped before, because Kodash was stronger at night on weekend and monday morning. Now I experience some kind of “it doesn’t really matter what we do”-Attidude during primetime, since the victory is sure and all the primetime-battles are mostly unimportant.
A small remark to the hackers on Kodash… they were both british and only transfered to Kodash for this single matchup. The first was from SFR and the second propably from Deso, since he has only stolen orbs from desolation not from SFR (or maybe he was a random troll, no idea).
Well Vizunah greatly outnumbers Elona actually. But obviously they are not used to people fighting back at night. FS smashes on Vizunah heavily during the evening and Elona just keeps their parts of the map.
But Elona will most likely not stand up like this forever. Most people playing at night have to go to work the next day and all they do is jumping Battlegrounds to use on force for all BGs. This way they only need 1/3 off the people to defend, since they just smash Vizunah if they are equal on numbers.
But it’s hard to do this forever and Elona normally does not have a large nightcrew, but normally they are completly on one map and switch to another if things get rough. If a Server has 30 people on every map they will most likely feel outmanned in every situation, since a large bunch of germans hop the battlefields to tear down any enemy zerg they find.
Since the maps are really small you do not need a large nightcrew, you just need to reinforce what you have to make it easier to jump between battlegrounds and you need some scouts on the maps to see incomings early. Thats how Elona does it, and although they seem to have collected most of the german nightplayers the are no match for Vizunah if it comes to numbers, they just beat them by being sometimes cleverer than them.
I have no idea, why a server spread over more than one timezone loses to some germans. Elona Reach is completly GMT+1, while FS should atleast have GMT+0 to GMT+3. And Vizunah is also mainly GMT+1 (there are about 30 Canadians, but the Server at all is quite jammed with players they have the longest queues of the T1-Server, while Elona has the shortest (I guess there isn’t much difference to FS, they should also have maximum 1h queues, exept for EB).
And if you pick out the Evening Elona and FS are quite equal with a small lead for FS, off course you may found certain situations where the lead is a lot stronger for both sides but in the end they are both stronger than vizunah and Elona although outnumbered fights Vizunah on equal terms during the night (at least equal enough to keep the orbs).
All people are just crying for Oversea help instead of organizing their nightcrews. All people tell you that you need to organize nightshifts, but on the over hand they just call for help to smash the servers that are limited to a single or a few timezones.
The problem is that even if you equal it out not much people actually play WvW. Depending on what is happening in WvW our Queues differ from 3h on a good weekend to outmanned at 7pm.
If people transfer off, we will get even more stomped during the week, but have no queues on weekend, with more people, we could fill WvW more easy during the week, but get even longer queues on the weekend
Well I actually fear we meet Desolation again next week... our enemies have given up after the weekend and now we have 600+ at 4pm (which is a time where we don’t even have queues^^). Our actual points will boost us from 10 to 6, and I guess our loss in this week will drop us to 10 again^^.
Our enemies actually inniciated some kind of exodus, since they are all talking about leaving their server. Although this is our first match on the sunny side of WvW it is also the most boring one.
And well I guess you know the history of german wars, we are not good at this, and hence we only live in one single timezone (very unfortunate, that we didn’t even had a real nation at the time of colonization). Nasty americans have tons of towns like New Berlin, Bismarck or New Frankfurt but none of them speak german (well North and South Caroline have some german-speaking communities).
and if XAOC would have +12 they would be ozeanic^^ (or Vladiwostok, maybe it’s +10, Only New Zealand and the most eastern part of russia is +12). Even if Russia has a lot of timezones I guess you know that most of it consists of siberia. Not sure if they even have electricity their. So majority of russians, live in the european part of russia and this is GMT+3 (not sure, russia does not have Summertime, so it should be GMT+2 or +3 depending on the season).
Actually a real problem for WvW are long Queue-Times during Weekend or Primetime.
I also have some Ideas for WvW in general (well it wouldn’t be WvW if they come true, but maybe something more fun and more equal).
GW2 obviously has all the necessary stuff to create instances. So why don’t we get a copy of the WvW-Maps, that could be filled with queuing people from all around the world (I guess EU and NA needs to be seperated)?
You could call it WvW-Overflow since this is exactly what it is. And if people like this (since you are never outnumbered, because the joining people are divided equally), why not make it the standard?
Just create X Battlefields and fill them from top to bottom, with an option for Guild-Groups to login (they might outnumber the enemy shortly, but since the over two sides would get new members, this won’t last long).
Every battlefield creates points that fill the WvW-Gauge of the server. If there are 200 from 500 people from one server, this server gets 2/5 of the points created in this battlefield.
This would also make it possible to create more WvW-Maps since you could switch them, because it is unimportant if all sides have equal conditions, because you most likely won’t be on the same side next time.
…well maybe this is a bit too much (I could go on about improving the PvE<-> WvW Interaction since WvW isn’t meant primarly for PvPers but for players who want to try some PvP), but at least the Queue-Thing should be doable and exspecially for PvPers Queuing isn’t fun.
Not sure how it works in NA, but in Europa most matches are fun and quite equal at weekends and WvW gets more and more abandoned during the week, since the match is decided mostly in the night from monday to tuesday.
End yes, the problem would not be solved by 3-day-matches.
And yeah, Exspecially Score and Orbs are broken. Since a primetime-player is almost unimportant for the score, because there are so much of them, normally all battlefields are full, meaning that only about 0,3 Points are around for every Player. If you would keep this “Points per Player”-Base everything would be fine, but normally at night there often aren’t even half as much people online, so people are easy to reach 1 Points per Player, which makes this time more important, than primetime, which should not be.
(edited by Syntax.9602)
IRON is fine. They may be a bit elitist, but actually IRON worked for this and you should thank them, since they put the pieces together.
Since RUIN already thought they were the single force to make HoD Nr. 1 in the NA-Brackets well… why should their attidude change? Ruin would most likely not be able to organize a smaller Server to win in WvW, so they choose one that already was fairly well organized. They would not meet much competition during their primetime. And in difference to IRON who fought even at night, there is no sign that RUIN does this to help Desolation with their small numbers during the morning, but then again RUIN seems to believe that all europeans have to stop sleeping so that they could fight them (since germans and french do not have large Oversee-Forces).
IRON is fine, they fought even as Desolation wasn’t in a good position. You should allow them to be a bit elitist in this case, since they actually deserved it, it seems like some of them where fighting for 24h^^.
The problem is, Deso was a T2-Server even before RUIN joined. The haven’t lost because they were rated too low, but because Arborstone was rated to weak. With Vizunah, Elona and Arborstone T1 would consist of our strongest Night-Servers and T2 would be a rather fair match too.
Our T1 was never as equal as it is now. Elona has a small lead on Vizunah and during the day battles mostly appear between Elona and FS, with Vizunah being a lot weaker. They seem a bit demoralized now, since they once have to fight servers that stands their ground.
Even with only a small lead Elona will cost Vizunah 100 Points now. I guess Vizunah will comeback during the Week, but the problem is, what should does 3 Servers do against international competition?
Since Anet does not allow foreign languages in this communities they are tied to french or german players. So all you say is they are kittened up, since you will most likely dominate them with no chance to fight back and they should ask some indochina-french or canadians or… well no idea germans could get some japanese since they seem to like Oliver Kahn ^.-
This “cover all timezones” would be true for an english-only competition like it is in NA. But since europe has a lot of language specific-servers this just does not work. Vizunah actually gets a lot of hatred for 500 canadian jews (yeah, I know they don’t exist, since a canadian guild consisting of 500 people that speak hebrew is very unlikely^^). Since the transfer of hatred is free too, the europeans will just start to hate Deso instead of Vizunah if it climbs up in tiers smashing everything in between during the night.
Our european matchup suffers greatly from Oversee-Guilds. It is fine if they are only a few like on SFR or Vizunah, but a strong US-Guild will strongly destroy the balance in the european brackets, since french and german Servers do not have as much Oversee-Presence than english servers have.
And I don’t really think that Desolation needed RUIN to be competitive. Maybe they would have a hard time in T2, but it would be one of the servers switching between T2 and T3 and Desolation is strong enough for T3 and might even give some good fighting in T2.
As RUIN transferred to Deso they already turned the battle against Kodash, although they were still on 3rd place IRON and some other notable guilds (to be honest IRON is just so easy to remember, that I forgot the tags of the other guilds :P) were already closing the gap.
I’m not sure how important the render-issues where, but Deso isn’t the only server that is easy to demotivate. Kodash had some really awful matches much like Deso, so both Server were reorganizing on the battlefield with the better end for Desolation.
Just to show you how strong Vizunah is…
https://d1ej19d7kwigfi.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/939/gw003.jpg
And no Vizunah is not red^^. RUIN propably has more Players as our whole Tier 1 together, since Elona is good at night, but since the server only consists of germans they normally don’t have queues anywhere (no idea if it changed now) and our Tier 1 is pretty equal now.
I don’t think that RUIN will even have some competition here, since the european night-forces aren’t that strong and they have spread a lot after the last queue-data came from ArenaNet.
Just compare
HoD-Queues:
https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/6533/Henge_of_Denravi.PNG
Vizunah-Queues:
https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/6501/Vizunah_Square.PNG
The two other Servers are a lot weaker than Vizunah (well Elona has a quite organized nightcrew although they are even less than Vizunah). So I’m not sure if you expect thousends of canadians, but there is only a small canadian-prime-peak on Vizunah consisting of about 30 people, not even enough to extend the Queues into their own primetime. Queues on Vizunah are ending on 1am (I guess earlier now, since some people transferred away from Vizunah), which would be strange for a lot of canadians.
So no idea what you expected during our night, but normally it is quite empty during the night, exspecially during the week. Maybe Vizunah will win again because of their strength during the week at night, but actually they are hardly a match for some germans that stayed awake.
An US-Guild consisting of 2.000 people is just way to much for even all 3 T1-Servers together to handle. 2.000 people are able to fill all battlegrounds alone (for all sides) so only 1/3 needs to be online to fill all the slots in WvW.
PS: Deso was stronger than Kodash at night in the first time. We only managed to get points during the weekend-nights and our strong monday. After that IRON was able to hold the fight against the few remainers and even drove them back, completly without RUIN. They also organized your prime-time forces and I guess they were the main reason for your strong comeback. And well, Kodash is known for its strong weekends, since most people strongly dislike staying awake for some points.
(edited by Syntax.9602)
Yeah there are some things that gives you credit.
But damaging walls and doors or defensiv siege-weapons earns you nothing. And even if you kill one guy within the tower you sometimes get nothing or only bronze.
Just compare to players, and think about who should get gold:
Player 1 builds a ram, manned it and smashed the door, after the door gets destroyed he goes up the walls and drives away some off the defenders and revives an ally.
Player 2 was autoattacking the door the whole time (maybe he was even afk), waited until it was open and did nothing but running into the tower.
The reason why Karma-Trains are so popular is that while Player 1 risks getting no reward at all Player 2 will get full credit for sure.
There are a lot of topics on Server-Transfer and the issues arising with it.
I will sum up the basic problems I and obviously a lot of other people are seeing.
1. The WvW-Ratings are meaningless. As long as guilds transfer around as they like it is hard to rate servers based on their current population. A servers performance decreases if a strong guild leaves and increases if a strong guild joins, but the rating does not notice such changes. In the Europa-Brackets this and some other issues create a situation where 7 out of 9 Matchups are heavily dominated by one Server and this is without heavy nightcapping, which isnt as much an issue on weekend as it is during the week.
2. Although your stats say that this is only a minor issue, there are a lot of people that join strong servers instead of weak ones. This “Winning Team Joiners” ruin the experience for servers performing good by increasing their Queues. I share your position, that it isn’t an important issue, but it does not help either. It is something that upsets people and I can understand them.
3. I haven’t seen a lot of changes in the lower half. If you put Kaineng aside most people will tell you that servers with low pop are losing players instead of gaining them.
My suggestion is simple and I don’t have only one but 4 of them:
1. Stop Free-Servertransfers
2. Give every player one free transfer to use as they like with the option to undo the transfer within 2 weeks.
3. Keep free transfers open for Low-Pop-Servers (exspecially the last bracket)
4. Gradually increase the price for a transfer until reaching your normal idea about how much it should cost.
Exspecially Number 2 should make it possible for every player to find a home. And if they don’t use their transfer, they could keep it for later, maybe they should be timed.
Number 3. Should stop the jumping between Mid-Pop-Servers. I would like to see stats about this, because as far as I noticed the destiny of most transfers is a server with a medium population and there is a lot of movement between such servers and of course a lot from full servers towards medium servers. But only a few people really transfer to empty servers.
Since I guess that not only the community has thought about server-transfers and their impact on WvW you may have some thoughts avaible that we miss. I would be happy to hear your ideas about this, since we might lack information or maybe you are always investigating the options of cutting the free transfers without removing them completly.
I’m sorry to create yet another thread about this, but I felt the need for at least one thread centered about solutions and alternatives instead of useless “Do this or I quit.” etc.
Good luck to Deso this time :P
Since we don’t fight against Deso and SFR both Hackers have left Kodash again (no idea where they are now).
I’m not sure about Ruin, but all Vizunah does not have as many Kanadians as People think^^. At least there are no Night-Queues. The other 2 T1-Servers are a german Server with no Oversee-Coverage, but they still managed to beat Arborstone (which does not have canadians either, well atleast not enough to battle a small german nightshift).
So T2 would be mainly PvDoor, since Riverside does not have a strong nightcrew and well Arborstone has some, but they fought against augury and desolation and caught them both in a bad position, since both servers where demotivated from latest fighting which is a bad thing if you need to stand against a server with an organized nightcrew.
And actually it looks like Elona ist leading during canadian primetime, although it is weekend this seems a bit odd. I have no idea how much people of RUIN do WvW, but if it is only half of the people they will have more guys in WvW during their primetime than both opponents together in every european tier.
Just for comparison. Kodash has about 50 People online at 5pm and Riverside about 120. Riverside reached T1 with this :P (although most of them left the server as it seems).